Talk of tolerance is one thing. The reality in Germany is another - as this article and YouTube video document. Violent Islamic extremists, along with the far-right, continue to foment open hostility towards Jews and Israel in Germany and around Europe.
Video: Islamic extremists cheer and shout "Allah Akbar" as German police remove an "offensive" Israeli flag from the window of a private home.
So much for "never again"...
Ah, commenting on current events (January 13th). You do realize that PI is a website for and by intelligent Neo-Nazis, don´t you?
Some facts, available e.g. here
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/693/454376/text/
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,601058,00.html
A protest against Israeli military operations in Gaza had 10.000 instead of expected 1.000 demonstrators, leaving police forces temporarily outnumbered. The Islamic immigrants threatened to attack the student who owned the flags. Cops were stationed to protect him, but were heavily outnumbered. The alternative was a massive use of force (possibly lethal) against the mob, or to temporarily remove the flags.
The police elected to avoid violence. One can discus this, but has to realize that the few cops on the scene would likely have been forced to use their guns if the flag had not been removed.
The police action was legal - see e.g. this opinion.
http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/duisburg/2009/4/30/news-118511537/detail.html
Local politicians apologized and immigrant mobs failed to repeat their success as more cops were assigned to future protests.
Please cut the crap about ´never again´. Nobody was harmed because the cops de-escalated the situation.
It seems to be much safer to be a Jew (or a Gentile with an Israeli flag) in Germany than e.g. an Ob/Gyn in the US ...
Posted by: Tropby | June 06, 2009 at 08:38 AM
A Nazi does not need not be intelligent to masquerade as a friend of Israel and America. But in this case Politically Incorrect is not factually incorrect. It is remarkable that for the purporse of its announcement that it was yielding to superior force Kurt Schuschnigg style, of all possible situations the German police picks the one with the Israeli flag, and not one with the Hamas flag.
The article by Christoph Meinertz linked by Tropby indicates that the politicians and top officials who disagreed with the message of this police action came to shut up after their first demands for external investigation, implying some kind of gag order.
http://www.im.nrw.de/sch/414.htm
This is the Verfassungschutzbericht asserting that anti-German left-wing extremists were provoking anti-war demonstrations with U.S. and Israeli flags. I would expect the police deciders followed these interpretations and the excuse cited after the event was irrelevant while it took place. Incidentally the not quite friendly description provided in that report is the same as the wolf in a sheepskin Nazis at PI use to give of their domestic critics, not all of which are enemies of these PI is trying to weasel to. Of course this is not just a local issue of Nordrhein-Westfalen, although it is the only branch so far having made such a statement in such a report, maybe because it is the only one having to appease a domestic ally of Vlaams Belang, since it is hosting the federal headquarters of the Verfassungsschutz its decisions are affecting the entire country.
Posted by: German In Name Only | June 06, 2009 at 03:57 PM
@ Tropby,
The source is factual - and smearing the author as a "Nazi" is little more than a weak attempt to shift the focus of the conversation - and in no way changes the reality. The fact that an angry mob of thousands of potentially violent fanatics in Duisburg attacked a home with an Israeli flag hardly leads to the conclusion that Jews are "safe" in Germany. The fact that armies of police have to protect Jewish citizens is certainly no argument that all is well.
Posted by: RayD | June 06, 2009 at 06:28 PM
Oh, I remember this. I'm pretty sure my thoughts at the time (and I may have posted as much) is that I didn't see that the cops had much choice if they wanted to protect public safety - outnumbered by a mob and dealing with potentially having a Zionist (and possibly a Jew) being lynched.
In terms of their responsibilites, I think the police did the right thing in the immediate situation.
But I agree with Ray - it begs the question. Obviously, there were plenty of cameras there - could not some of the perps in the crowd be tracked down and charged with something? ( I ask that in full acknowledgment that I don't know German law.)
Posted by: Pamela | June 07, 2009 at 07:40 PM
Troby posts this snarky comment:
"It seems to be much safer to be a Jew (or a Gentile with an Israeli flag) in Germany than e.g. an Ob/Gyn in the US ..."
What a crock....Typical ignorant stereotyping by a European.
Jeremiah Duggan (jewish) beaten to death in Germany March 2003.
Dr. Tiller murdered in the US June 2009
My point? Since the 1950's, FOUR doctors have been murdered in the US by nutcases opposing abortion. How many jews have been murdered in Germany since WWII?
Posted by: Suzanne | June 08, 2009 at 08:36 AM
@ RayD:
OK, let us assume that you and your Kameraden at PI are in power.
German citizens of Islamic belief, Muslim with other EU-citizenship, Muslim immigrants, Muslim asylum seekers and Muslim tourists want to protest against some Israeli military action.
What do you do?
...........................................................
A society has to safeguard the right to protest e.g Israeli foreign policy and abortion while at the some time protecting the persons involved. Germany seem to do a much better at protecting Jews from Muslim extremists than the US does at protecting Ob/Gyns from Christian extremists.
@ Susanne:
Eight Ob/Gyns and attendants were killed by Christian fanatics in the last twenty years. Three doctors dared to perform legal late-term abortions in the whole USA, yet none got special police protection. Now there are only two left ...
I do not recall any Jew being murdered by Muslim fanatics in the last twenty years over here, but my google-fu is weak.
Jeremiah Duggan was mentally unstable and committed suicide, sorry. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Duggan
Posted by: Tropby | June 09, 2009 at 08:01 AM
Oh jeez. I hesitate to post this as I am, still, after all these years, sworn to secrecy.
I will say as much as I can. For 3 years back in the '80s I worked for the newspaper 'USA Today'. To be clear, I was/am a computer geek - had nothing to do with USA Today's product, but I knew the billing in my sleep.
So one day my boss, MC, walks into my cube and asks me to step into his office - he shuts the door - which he never did - and there are two guys in suits there. "Ms P, I'm agent K and this is agent S'.
Handshakes all around. "Agents of what? (Yes, I am that stupid)
FBI.
I swear to God I actually said this. You all can use it against me for as long as I live.
I'M INNOCENT
This is how to make FBI people wet their pants laughing.
Ok, so the deal was this - there was an abortion clinic bombing in a southern state that I won't name and the bomb was wrapped in an issue of USA Today. The FBI needed a computer geek at USA Today to find that fucker.
We got him. That's all I can say.
Other than - despite their haircuts, male and female, - FBI people really do have a sense of humor.
As long as you're not the suspect.
Still innocent.
Posted by: Pamela | June 10, 2009 at 09:16 PM
Eight Ob/Gyns and attendants were killed by Christian fanatics in the last twenty years. Three doctors dared to perform legal late-term abortions in the whole USA, yet none got special police protection. Now there are only two left ...
I do not recall any Jew being murdered by Muslim fanatics in the last twenty years over here, but my google-fu is weak.
Well, there were 3000 Americans and other nationals murdered in the USA by Muslim fanatics in the last 10 years. Add one the same week that Dr. Tiller was killed.
At least in the last 40 years, I think the chances of being murdered anywhere in the world by Muslim fanatics far outweighs the chances that more Ob/Gyns will be cut down by some crazy Christian.
Posted by: perplexed | June 10, 2009 at 11:28 PM
@Tropby - I can´t help but seeing a correlation between our cops being too brutal when closing in on protesters, and them being too gutless when it happens that protesters are closing in on them. These are not recruits but volunteers who have chosen to spend their time with protesters, so if in an asymmetric situation it suddenly appears to them that someone might pull a gun, in my eyes this remains a lame excuse.
@Suzanne - The death of Jeremiah Duggan should not be belittled. In the Reagan years, when the Larouche cult experienced its heyday, the Verfassungschutz was led by the brother of a key member of its German branch (the Hellenbroich brothers), and in the Bush 41 years two members of the Bundestag ended up dead after being stalked by the cult, which e.g. sent actors to rise from wheelchairs during their speeches (Bastian/Kelly).
@Pamela - As to cop sightings, I had a priceless one strolling the neighbourhood of our national money hole.
One old guy, greyish, pharaonic smile, like a foreign minister (think Frank Steinmeier with a ´stache) and a young girl, tanned, in-your-face (think Pamela Geller with ray-bans) in an expensive estate car of inconspicious color and German brand.
Methinks she ain´t his daughter although she could be, and maybe I have seen just a few too many headlines about child porn recently ... turns out it was a high-ranking police bureaucrat travelling undercover with an assistant.
Humour? Is that an illicit drug I can confiscate to sugarcoat the detection rate statistics of my department?
@perplexed - On our side of the equation, one could also include the Duesseldorf shrapnel bomb after the failure of Camp David II on July 27, 2000 to render the cited evaluation factually incorrect.
Posted by: German In Name Only | June 11, 2009 at 12:09 PM
Your google-fu is very strong when you want to find information that supports your point of view, such as those killed by anti-abortion fanatics but very weak when finding information that would not support your point of view. I am not sure what you mean by “over here.”Our friend Tropby:
An estimated 300 Jewish people were killed on 911.
From Religion of Peace blog.
Islamic Terrorists have carried out 13,358 deadly terror attacks since 9/11.From the Religion of Peace blog, putting their data into a spreadsheet, over 70,000 killed by Muslim fanatics since September 10,2001.
2006.02.13 France Saint Genevieve des Bois 1 0 A young Jewish man is kidnapped by a Muslim gang and tortured for three weeks before expiring of his wounds.
2008.06.20 France Paris 0 1 A 17-year-old Hassidic Jew is beaten into a coma by Muslim immigrants.
2003.12.02 USA Chicago, IL 1 0 A Muslim doctor deliberately allows a Jewish patient to die from an easily treatable condition.
2006.06.16 USA Baltimore, MD 1 0 A 62-year-old Jewish moviegoer is shot to death by a Muslim gunman in an unprovoked terror attack.
2006.07.28 USA Seattle, WA 1 5 An 'angry' Muslim-American barges into a local Jewish center and shoots six women, one of whom dies.
Posted by: GringoTex | June 11, 2009 at 09:59 PM
@ GringoTex:
This blog smeared Germany with nonsense about Jews in Germany being under serious attack by evil Muslims fanatics.
As a German, I commented on said claims. "Over here" = Germany
I still cannot find any Jew being murdered by Islamists in the last 20 years.
@ German In Name Only:
Are there any new infos on the Düsseldorf grenade attack? The case was never solved, nobody knows who did it IIRC:
Maybe organized crime (Russian or Turkish), maybe anti-immigrant groups, maybe anti-Semites, maybe a weapons-nut ...
@ RayD:
No answer? You had several days to think it over and fail, but demand instant and perfect reactions from cops on the scene ...
Posted by: Tropby | June 13, 2009 at 07:31 PM
@Tropby - All the fingerprints of Islamic terrorism are there, such as the choice of timing and target in synchronicity with the pulse of international diplomacy. In the moment American diplomacy failed and Islamic states might start to look at the other players, was there a motive, by bombing them into the news, to let an Islamic audience know that Jews from the former Soviet Union do immigrate to Germany and voluntarily learn the language in private schools, under a special privilege which puts ethic Germans and ethnic Jews from that part of the world above all other applicants (Kontingentflüchtlinge), and be it only to woo them away from enlarginh the settlements in Judaea and Samaria? This sounds like the first shot of the second intifadah. I wouldn´t even rule out Ahmadinejad as a suspect, personally, does fit into all the categories you listed.
Posted by: German In Name Only | June 15, 2009 at 07:38 PM
As usual, the lesson we learn from this incident: violence or threats of violence is the best way for Islamists to get their way in western europe; and it's working.
Posted by: The_Whale | June 19, 2009 at 12:49 AM
It can do so because it exploits the intrinsic link between authoritarian government and appeasement.
Translated from: http://www.die-rechte.info/wordpress/?p=1080 (Nazi group sitting in 4 of 16 state legislatures)
These authoritarians want to abuse their own people that way, so they bow, most of them to Islamic Antisemitism, but a minority instead to American superior firepower.
Posted by: German In Name Only | June 24, 2009 at 10:03 AM
Of course, all the rationality the audience of Der Spiegel needs is to be told who is Hund and who is Herr, including this blog´s resident troll.
On the issue of voodoo economics: Certainly it would have been helpful for Merkel´s quest for an exit strategy if a German governor had come out with a principled rejection of the stimulus from early on. If only one Bundesland had taken a stance such as South Carolina, maybe now there would be transparency how the banks are investing the money they receive to save the economy. There might even be rational debate whether an airport bigger than that of Dubai in the center of Europe is a desirable goal:
Sounds like a plan to save the €.
Posted by: German In Name Only | June 25, 2009 at 06:56 PM
Since Germans never kept Negro slaves,
Well, thank god he isn't a Jew
Posted by: Pamela | June 27, 2009 at 12:07 PM
Well, thanks God for the refreshing discord 9/11 brought upon our Nazis. It must be quite an unconfortable position to find oneself sitting on the fence between the pro-Islam and pro-America Nazi fractions in the German society. Not only does that make Medienkritik´s resident troll appear to all the decent people as a sort of *cough* political exhibitionist, in the process of attempting to keep that position it also puts its host organism into a risk to hurt itself in excess (again).
And I continue to be amazed at how blatantly stupid this toxic asset from the Schröder years really is, besides the same-old-old racist/bigot buzzwords it has nothing to contribute to a forward-looking anthropological analysis of the hitherto stimulus campaign. Forget it. The historical prototype for Merkels response to the crisis can be found in the Polynesian cargo cults: Build infrastructure for alien spending capacity to come down and wait. Welcome to the Erich von Däniken model of investment.
Posted by: German In Name Only | June 27, 2009 at 03:49 PM
RayD: Since you do not bother to ban the troll Phil, I see no need to look at this site. Ciao. Auf weidersehn(spelling?). Nos vemos. Good bye. Adios. Farewell. So Long.
Posted by: GringoTex | June 27, 2009 at 07:21 PM
@GringoTex
Wait for me, I'm right behind you!
David, for shame, really.
Posted by: Pamela | June 27, 2009 at 10:07 PM
Should you be lurking back, consider this: If a troll is banned on the blog and no one is around to notice it, does it have any effect?
Allowing the Nazi troll to participate in this argument is a political vaccination against the risks posed by the trolling of the German Supreme Court by its host organism. Maybe Justices on Supreme Courts should have a right to walk out as well when they think stupidity is at boiling point.
The theory that the political discourse in the West was ruled by an empty honour cult - as highlighed by means of the buzzword of political (in)correctness - was always meant to be falsified, where not theoretically there practically. When this is being achieved those who have upheld it only for the purpose of hiding ill intentions behind it do remain, and cannot help but reveal their moral dilpaidation.
Posted by: German In Name Only | June 30, 2009 at 10:21 AM
Seriously, thanks for what you're doing.
I've previously lived in Germany and am now in the UK and have been wondering whether there are any foreign observers aware of the hypocrisy going down in Europe, or if it's just me suffering a major psychotic episode featuring full blown hallucinations... The EU and predominantly Germany seem to do such an excellent-PR-job sweeping its filth under the carpet unnoticed.
Posted by: equitableapex | July 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM
There is a certain conflict between abandoning this Web site due to the comments of Phil and the uniqueness of this Web site for what it reports and who is attracted to it. Because of Phil, I have unfortunately gotten less pleasure in reading this Web site. It's a shame for him to drive people away. He's pretty childish. His attacking of people and his racism and anti-Semitism make me wonder how it is he's been tolerated so long. But it's a fact.
Posted by: svetov | July 26, 2009 at 07:52 PM