On 9/11: German State-Sponsored Media Giant ZDF Fuels the Conspiracy Underworld

ZDF - one of Germany's largest state-sponsored public media networks - came out with an article promoting a documentary on September 11 conspiracy theories - just in time for the sixth anniversary of the terror attacks. Next to the article is an unscientific poll asking readers to vote on who really "pulled the strings" on September 11, 2001. The poll provides several interesting choices (which themselves say quite a lot about ZDF) and recorded the following numbers:

Above: Who is behind the attacks? ("Rüstungslobby" = arms lobby, "US-Behörden" = US authorities, "Ich weiß nicht" = I don't know)

The results (with over 6,000 votes registered) indicate that 65% - or nearly two-thirds - of ZDF participants blame either George W. Bush (26%), US authorities (24%) or the nebulous and ever sinister arms lobby (15%) for 9/11. By comparison, only 27% selected Osama Bin Laden as the culprit and 9% said they didn't know. The article itself promotes a documentary which claims to shed on 9/11 and provide "research" that "solidifies" an "allegation against authorities." A translation of the summary can be read here - and the banner and headline can be viewed below:

Above: "Myth and Truth: Documentation: 11 September 2001 - what really happened: ZDF Research hardens allegations against authorities"

This article and poll - published by a major German television network six years to the day after 9/11 - bear further witness to the outrageous and warped views that cloud the minds of so many in Germany and around the world. Some, including German pacifist activist Angelika Claussen, chose to portray the attacks as "accidents" while others pretend to live in a world where the attacks simply did not take place or are to be collectively repressed. Genuine anger with the true culprits - the fanatical Al-Qaeda terrorists who plague the world with their murderous activity - is nowhere to be found.

Others, including the conspiracy nuts who have gained notoriety and a sizable following, twist the facts in an effort to create a narrative to suit their own primitive anti-American tendencies. They thrive on a culture that blames America for virtually everything. They seek to wash away their own historic guilt at the altar of the sacrificial world-scapegoat - the hated 800 pound gorilla and source of all the world's ills - The United States of America. These "useful idiots" are - sadly enough - all too useful to Al-Qaeda and other anti-American fanatics in their propaganda war against the United States - as Osama bin Laden's recent reference to Noam Chomsky demonstrates.

Let there be no mistake: The only reason ZDF and other German media promote this sort of material over and over again is because so many Germans want to buy and believe it. Deep down - far more Germans than anyone is willing to admit are convinced that American leaders destroyed their own buildings and thousands of their fellow citizens to justify a campaign to invade the Middle East for oil. They believe that George W. Bush - together with a sinister cabal of government authorities and arms merchants (i.e. the dreaded military-industrial complex that haunts the fantasies of much of the Angry Left) essentially murdered thousands of innocents - and managed to keep the entire operation secret - without so much as a leak. (This despite the fact that it is also universally accepted among members of the Angry Left that Bush is a complete idiot incapable of forming a coherent sentence...)

Sadly - this article is symptomatic of a wider mental illness that affects a disproportionate number of Germans and is to be found throughout the world wherever angry America-haters (and American self-haters) brood.

This can only be described as one of those moments - with state-sponsored media offering a public stage for these outrageous conspiracy theories - that one feels sincerely ashamed to be a German citizen...

UPDATE: Several readers point out that the documentary (which had not yet aired at the time of this posting) reviews numerous conspiracy theories - only to debunk or contradict them at the very end. It is true that the documentary reaches this conclusion - and we are happy about that - but the entire program is presented and advertised in a manner that hypes and promotes the madness - and offers the conspiracy theorists a platform to spread their lies. Further - had a ZDF documentary concluded that 9/11 was an inside job - the media reaction certainly would not have limited itself to this blog. But the cavalier and disrespectful manner in which the network handles the topic with its article and poll is disturbing - and has more to do with ratings than with a responsible handling of the subject. The poll - which offers outrageous choices (only "space aliens", "Israel", and "free masons" were missing) is a clear indicator that ZDF is anything but dedicated to dispelling the many myths that surround 9/11.

Watch and decide for yourself:

UPDATE #2: The media reaction to ZDF's 9/11 internet debacle is no longer limited to this blog. Henryk Broder published this piece today on SPIEGEL ONLINE that characterizes ZDF's presentation as a "disinformation offensive." (We will post the English translation as soon as it becomes available.) Unfortunately - SPIEGEL ONLINE is hardly an innocent bystander when it comes to flagrant abuse of 9/11 and its victims.

Translation of ZDF article:

Myth and Reality

Current: Myth & Reality from 09/11/2007

Documentation: 11 September 2001 - what really happened

ZDF Research hardens allegation against authorities

The plan was insidious. The dimension of terror incomprehensible. Commercial airplanes became flying bombs and shook the last superpower to its foundations. The perpetrators of September 11, 2001, were quickly made out, the men behind the attack are considered to be known: 19 young Muslims on a mission for the Saudi terror lord Osama bin Laden his organization Al-Qaeda. But from the beginning there were doubts.

Increasing numbers of people suspect other powers behind the attack of September 11. For them it is obvious that the Pentagon was not hit by an airplane, but instead by a missile: How else is the small impact hole to be explained? And why did the powerful US Air Force not simply intercept the slow passenger airliners? How could it be that hours after the impacts on the World Trade Center in New York a third building collapses that was not hit by the airplanes? Is this all a conspiracy of the American intelligence agencies to open the door for the Bush government to wage the decisive war for oil?

In the meantime there are over 50 such conspiracy theories about the act of terror. The circulate in books, newspaper articles, on the internet and in films. Hollywood will soon bring the first conspiracy blockbuster to theaters.

Startling Theories

The documentary "September 11, 2001 - Myth and Reality" follows the trail of several startling theories. The film's authors spoke with well-known skeptics, with experts and with eye-witnesses of the attacks of September 11. The attempted to separate fact from fiction.

With partially new or never before published documents and film, they answer some of the controversial questions. The documentary explains, among other things, why there is hardly any wreckage to be seen on the photos of the crash site at Shanksville - and what really happened at the Pentagon.

Files under Lock and Key

Several eye-witnesses and participants speak for the first time on camera and raise serious charges. They believe the attacks could have been prevented. Members of the investigative committee report why in New York not only the two twin tours collapsed.

There are still many files under lock and key and many in positions of responsibility at the time unpleasantly avoid questions. It is for that reason as well that so many legends circulate around September 11, 2001. What is myth, what is reality?

By Michael Renz

ZDF 2007

Instead of dispelling the myths and paranoia - ZDF choses to fuel them with this piece. Sad but true.

(Hattip: Niko K.)

Comments

[joe]

Don't forget these are our allies.

[commonsense]

Thanks, Ray, it's about time to point to the ZDF. They share a huge part of responsibility for the anti-American resentment in Germany. The "long march through the institutions of society" which was first formulated by Antonio Gramsci in the 1920s, then revitalised in 1968, and successfully accomplished within the German Media Network, bears fruit here.
Also, what comes to my mind is their report about General Petraeus in the news yesterday. Most time in that report they gave to, of all people, that Christmas-in-Cambodia-Senator asking his questions. That says a lot, too.
But, it's not like each and every German in unison has an anti-American agenda. There are others, and most of the others leave the country. About 250,000 tertiary educated people each year leave Germany.

[Don Miguel]

Arms lobby? LOL!

How many times must Osama bin Laden say that al Qaeda did it? I've seen two different of his PR videos in which he directly or indirectly takes responsibility (and there are probably other ones), plus the famous "home video" of him and his pals sitting around talking about it that was found in Afghanistan.

As for the theories, I don't think I've ever seen a larger group of non-scientists and non-engineers make so many idiotic statements about subjects of which they have not the slightest clue, all while experts in those subjects knock down their arguments time and time again without the slightest dent in what has to be the greatest conglomeration of mass cognitive dissonance and psychological denial in modern times. It’s probably not too much of a stretch to think that it wouldn’t be hard to convince a lot of these people that the earth is really flat.

[GringoTex]

Some of our European posters wonder why the "right-wingers" (often-cited definition of a conservative: a liberal mugged by reality) at times evince "anti-German" or "anti-European" points of view in response to nonsense like this? At the same time, there are plenty of ignoramuses/moonbats/blooming idiots on the west side of the Atlantic who have expressed similar opinions. Rosie O'Donnell, that well known "metallurgist", for example.

[QuagmiredInTheBRD]

If you think the online survey was bad, you should have seen the TV special on 11 Sept at 21:00. But let's try to see things from the positive side: if you are ever in need of an emetic, just tune in to the ZDF news with anchorpersons Marietta Slomka and Claus Kleber. The emetic is included in your GEZ fees.

[fuchur]

Ray, I can't believe it. You didn't even watch the documentary?! How can anybody write a review about a documentary only on grounds of the preview? It's a joke. You're like a cinema critic judging a movie after only having seen the trailer!

I'll make a wild guess here: You don't even have access to German TV, do you? Some "expert" on German media you are...

Well, I watched the first half hour of the movie yesterday (nothing spectacular), so I was kinda interested what their overall conclusion was.
Google lead me to this German blog entry, where the author voices his overall disappointment with the documentary, and complains that the producer was biased, because he had said already beforehand that the goal of this documentary was to debunk the various conspiracy theories. (There you have it: evil biased German media ;-) )
However, he links to a few reviews in German papers:
TAZ
SZ
tagesspiegel

I think this snippet from the SZ review nails it:

The documentary waits till the end to answer this question. Probably not so many would have watched if the authors had revealed their conclusion already at the start: The US administration can be accused of secretiveness, concealment and making mistakes. For a big-style conspiracy there is no proof.

So, what's with the "ZDF Research hardens allegation against authorities" from the headline? Well, the authors found out that apparently the anti-fire measures in WTC7 had not been up to scratch. Woo-hoo.

Basically, the documentary does just what Ray wants: It dispells the myths. Of course, it's a bit hard to find this out without actually watching it...

(Btw, for all those who feel "sincerely ashamed of being German citizens" I'd like to add that of course yesterday there were hours and hours of reports and documentaries on 9/11 on virtually every German channel. But we wouldn't wanna mention this here, would we?)

[Mir]

May the victims rest in peace. We'll never forget them. We'll never forget.

May God continue to bless America.

[Scout]

Yes, Fuchur, there was a lot on television yesterday, and most of it was leftist socialist crap. Instead of just honouring those who died and clearly stating who did it, they let the conspiracy theories have free run. Moreover, they spent most of the time talking about the "victimization" of policemen or firemen who "aren't being taken care of by the government." What utter rubbish. That was their main point -- that was the Big News they had to say about 9/11. That of course while making glowing comments about Hillary! (with flattering clips of her attacking the present administration, of course) and editing out Guiliani -- simply mentioning that "he proclaimed himself a hero of 9/11." No bias there. None at all.
So hold off on your attacks on Ray. Why do you assume he didn't see anything? The truth is that you're probably as brainwashed as the rest of the Sheeple in this country. We could probably watch the same programme at the same time and disagree 2 minutes later on what was actually said.

[commonsense]

@Fuchur

From what on earth do you conclude Ray didn't see that crockumentary? There's not a single bit of information in the above blog entry that supports your conclusion. The point you are making is one of the stereotypes of the angry left, "You didn't see it", "You didn't read it" etc. Ray has linked and copied the stuff he found online. The documentary was not online at the time. Now it is.

For everyone who wants to see it, it's here: http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/content/216832?inPopup=true.

For all the others the contents are like this: They spent about 43 minutes introducing the top conspiracy theories that are around, 3 to 6 minutes each. At the end they take about two minutes to say that, of course, it's all conspiracy and it's not what happened in reality. The last two minutes are those for the record, the first 43 minutes are those that stick. And that's what the intention was.

[RayD]

@ fuchur,

I do watch German television - and frankly - much of this material can be viewed online - as commonsense points out. The entire tone of ZDF's piece, its poll and the documentary itself serve to hype conspiracy theories (by presenting them at great length) - even if (at the very end) they admit there is no hard evidence to support them. If their objective was to debunk and delegitimize the theories (as you claim) they would not have spent the entire program reviewing them - only to "debunk" them at the end. In fact - the ZDF crowd is out for ratings at all costs - and an objective telling of the truth is hardly what they are after or what they present. Let's not strain to apologize for them at all costs.

Even you, fuchur, have to admit that the poll - and the options offered - are truly over-the-top. Unfortunately, the culture of conspiracy theories and the number of people who believe that 9/11 was "an inside job" is alive and thriving in Germany - thanks in part to the lack of professionalism and biased presentation we see on a daily basis in German media.

[WhatDoIKnow]

I haven't watched the "documentary" but if 99% of the time is spent on presenting the conspiracy theories and 1% of the time is spent on saying that they are just that, conspiracy theories, than it's impossible to claim that the purpose of it was to debunk the lunatic theories. (Unless you're fuchur, or some other dishonest German media apologist; then you can make any ridiculous claim that crosses your mind)

[Charlie]

What do you expect? Everyone in the German media knows what happens when you don't follow the official line. Ask Eva Herman. Oohps, I guess we can't.

[KathyK]

Of course this wasn't a scientific survey, but I've seen similarly bizarre results before. The bottom line is that if that many German people believe something that crazy about us, the only sensible thing to do is write Germany off.

National character assassination - the negative nationalism of anti-Americanism - is being preached to them and they are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.

They are so eager to believ bad things about America that they will believe ANYTHING.

What does that mean? It means that convincing them otherwise is impossible. Because they are thinking with lies.

That makes them hopeless. Let's ditch them as so-called "friends" and "allies". The labels are ludicrous in the light of the facts.

Let's stop kidding ourselves. At best they are envious rivals. Best to ditch NATO and put them at arm's length.

We assume that would be bad. But would it? Really? What does Europe do that helps us in any substantial way? The low-level cooperation would continue, simply because that's in their interest too. All we'd lose is a burden.

And can you imagine the blessed peace of a day without that screaming Euroharpy in our ears telling us how evil we are? 'Tis a consummation devoutly to be wished. To H with Europe. Let them scream into the wind.

[fuchur]

@Ray
Let's not strain to apologize for them at all costs.

Ok, but let's not criticize them at all cost, either. You're acting as if this was the most outrageous thing in the history of mankind. "Sincerely ashamed to be a German citizen"?! Sheesh...

the ZDF crowd is out for ratings at all cost

That's a point I can agree on. Yeah, they made a hype around this documentary acting as if they had some great big new discovery in petto - when in reality it wasn't anything at all. And I think they should have made it clear from the beginning that these theories are nonsense. On the other hand, I can understand that they tried to make their piece as "exciting" as possible.

I see no problem with the poll.

Another thing:
offering a public stage for these outrageous conspiracy theories

Aren't you the ones constantly rooting for diversity of opinions in the German media? Well, that means to give room to these opinions, too.
Besides, how is one supposed to deal with these conspiracy theories? I don't think that ignoring them solves the problem; that's just what these people claim: The media won't talk about this, they're hiding the truth, yaddayadda. It's certainly not wrong to address these things - at least once in six years.

Even you have to admit that in the German MSM NOBODY endorses or encourages these conspiracy theories.

[Scout]

"Even you have to admit that in the German MSM NOBODY endorses or encourages these conspiracy theories."

Fuchur, are you stuck on stupid? No one has to admit anything of the sort. The whole point of this blog entry is that the German MSM does exactly what you fail to notice: They encourage these conspiracy theories.

"Well, that means to give room to these opinions, too."

What do you mean "too" ????? These are the ONLY opinions that make it into print or on the airwaves in Germany. If it isn't Looney Left Anti-American, it isn't fit for public consumption in Germany. "Diversity of opinion" means real diversity... not just the one well-wacky point of view that happens to correspond to your own (no surprises there...).
Unfortunately, I've met far too many Fuchurs to believe that he is somehow unusual. Congratulations, Fuchur. You win the Typical German Award, courtesy of Scout.

Hier die Tagesthemen. Warten Sie, bitte. Ihre Meinung wird gleich zugeteilt.

[WhatDoIKnow]

I didn't bother to respond anymore to fuchur's latest idiocies, but Scout said it all.

[Ted S., Catskills, NY]

Fuchur informierte uns:

Well, that means to give room to these opinions, too.

Remember, these are the same people who would go nuts over Bjorn Lomborg.

[hobo]

so what are people thinking about the recent bomb plots in Germany? I suggest ZDF does a poll for that.
Was it staged a) to help Schäuble make new laws to help the us-zionist-paid government control those in Germany who finally start to get it
b) to make us believe the former so those laws don`t pass to let the next plot be successful to press Germany into more military engagement for us- zionist causes?
c) to make us believe b) so... I´m running out of ideas here, any suggetions, fucher?
wait, isn`t ZDF itself hacked by foreign interests? I`m starting to think those german insurgents have a point, after all.

more seriously, I think it`s likely those like Islamic Jihad Union et al are calculating with the german mental state. you don`t wanna hit the population of a proud Friedensmacht being - objectively-predominantly on your side...not yet, at least...as it seems.

every bit of discussing the NPD etc is ridiculous in light of what the ZDF is doing here
given your name is it you`re blind to bad reality because of your steady high level of endorphine?
please greet the UFO pilots in the arctic from me, fuchur.

I suggest you read this, for example
http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/080ruyhg.asp
this is history. and ZDF is a broadcast station of the nazi successor state to educate the population.

[americanbychoice]

@Fuck ur
Can't you find blogs on "Die Linke" Remember, Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.

[Alex N.]

Germany is lost. If it has ever been saved.
Fight?

Well, you know, when they say that "ONE man INDEED can make a difference", they come up with a few examples meant to extrapolate on that point. A typical one is Martin Luther King. Well, while Martin Luther King was indeed one man, and not a trinity or something, he had a hell of a lot of people BEHIND his view and opinions already long before he ever opened his mouth. Pretty much ALL the black people living in the US, and then also a bunch of white Americans who agreed with his views. So, he already had a basis from which he could work on, long before he ever simply became the *mouthpiece* of them. All he did was becoming the mouthpiece and speaking up for those who already agreed with him before he ever appeared on the scene.

Martin Luther (not King). Same story. You got an axe to grind with the Catholic Church? Well, listen now, masses, here now is this guy who is pinning leaflets against the Church doors. Mouthpiece, once again. Allready had a good number behind his cause before he ever appeared on the scene.

George Washington and the like? Got an axe to grind with the British overlords? Well, you pretty much have the whole damn country behind you waitin' for someone like you to appear.

William Wallace? Got and axe to grind with the British (again)? Yeah, there are people waiting for you.

I do not want to diminish the effort and sacrifice of those individuals in any way. It is only that the fact remains that while they might have been the singular leaders of their dream, they had support already before they ever entered the stage of history.

Opposite examples would be people like the White Rose, or even Claus Graf von Staufenberg to some extend. They were speaking up on their own as well, but that was it. They did not have any kind of given support that would have been there already. They were fishing in the dark, and unfortunately, this is were they stayed. Because they had no one behind them. There was no support. There were too few willing to follow.

And, these days, when you speak up for the US in Germany, or maybe even Europe, you are alone. Or your numbers are too few. When there is not a good percentage of the people already waiting for you to appear, then your fight is lost before it ever began. Fact.

[Alex N.]

BTW, I realize I might sound a bit negative here with my comments lately. And since I don't really enjoy being the party poopser, I would also like to add now that there have been about 3 colleagues of mine within the last 5 years or so which somewhat "convinced". Convinced at least in so far that they do no longer engulf themselves in the same rabbit Anti-Americanism like they used to. One of them is now even considering the US as a possible future homeland and these days HE comes up telling me about what Anti-American trash he read lately and is laughing about it.

Also, I consider this website here and similar ones to be an effort to *increase* that possible pool of people who *might* then wait for a mouthpiece to speak their mind. Making that pool, which is small now, a lot bigger. This is what websites as these are there for, and I think this is what they can do, and, God willing, will achieve.
So not all is lost. But it is hard, and in the end, it might just take too long to matter. But no one knows the future. And in either case, it is never too late to do the right thing.

I've realized that when you can make people here understand they when they see the US as their enemy, that they are then in fact cutting into their own flesh, and that what are the enemies of the US might just be their own enemies as well, if you make them realized that the Americans are more similar to them than they are different, if you can get that point accross, people tend to at least start *listening* to what else you have to say.
They are really brainfucked by the media. And when you want to talk to them seriously, you first have to wade through that all that dung to get any kind of message across, and this is what makes it so difficult.

[WhatDoIKnow]

When there is not a good percentage of the people already waiting for you to appear, then your fight is lost before it ever began. Fact

True. I agree with absolutely everything you said. No matter how charismatic a leader might be, he won't be able to achieve anything without the support of large numbers of like-minded people. The darling of the Left, Gandhi, was unknown to the Indian people when he started his struggle/protest against the British, but the Indian people followed him because they all had a common vision of India. In Germany that common vision is "pile on America". However, if I am about to loose a fight, I prefer to loose it while fighting. I really believe in "it ain't over till it's over".

[Alex N.]

Please forgive my multiple spelling and / or grammar errors. Had a long day.

[marisa]

I don’t think that deep down the 65% of Germans in this poll or most of the truthers for that matter believe the US Government is really behind the attacks. I just think they accept these theories because they are convenient and help them validate their convictions (dislike or hatred toward Americans, George Bush, neocons, government institutions, gun lobbies, authority, whatever).

This reminds me of an article about modern-day witch hunts in South Africa, where there are at least ten villages that “are populated exclusively by accused "witches" whose lives are at risk in their home communities. One such settlement, Helena, counted among its residents 62-year-old Esther Rasesemola, who was accused in 1990 of being a witch after lightning struck her village:

A group of people visited the Inkanga [village witch-doctor] to see who was responsible. When they returned, it was my brother-in-law who told the rest of the village that I was responsible. He owed me money and I think he did it to get rid of me because he did not want to pay the money back. People in the village became convinced I was a witch. They came to my house at night and burnt it down and took all my belongings. Then they put me in a truck and drove me to a deserted place and dropped me off with my husband and my three children. They told me never to come back to the village or they would kill me …”

Esther Rasesemola and George Bush are both guilty. The Inkanga said so.

[Alex N.]

Yeah, Gandhi. I knew there was another historical figure I wanted to mention, but didn't come up with.

As for the rest, I agree. "It ain't over until the Fat Lady sings.", or as they like to say.

Marisa: Yes. I agree a lot of this is just the result of a fight which is taking place in peoples' own mind. A fight which will always appear when your mind is in conflict with reality. The question is, will that make a difference in the end? It would make a difference once people realized it is in fact only in their own mind where all this "Evil America" stuff is happening. This is from where I try to approach people. Giving them a few facts to measure against their perception.

[RayD]

@ all,

Appreciate the strong debate. Let's try to keep the comments as civil as possible. Fuchur has a right to voice his opinion (though some of us may not agree with him) without being on the receiving end of ugly language. I realize the occasional profanity has its comic value - but let's try to keep it above the belt. Thanks.

[marisa]

Alex: "The question is, will that make a difference in the end?"

I think these people have to be hit hard in the face by reality in order for them to accept the truth. The more delusional, the more hits they will need. I try to be optimistic and hope that if they are ever confronted by real evil -not in the news, not in some distant country, but right at their doorstep- the imagined evil will just fade away.

[americanbychoice]

@all,
oops, I didn't realize that i hit the wrong key while typing FUCHUR, Sorry, fingeritis.

[amiexpat]

man, I am SOOOO glad to be out of Germany. I am an ami who lived in Germany for nine years.. moved back last month.
Despite moving to one the most economically depressed states in the USA (Michigan), it appears I have a good job lined up.. after only six weeks back. Try doing that in Germany!! plus I am over the age of 40, a kiss of death in finding a job in Germany.
to be honest, I very often think like Kathy K. .. disband NATO, sign individual mutual defense pacts with each country.. move the troops we have in Germany to Poland or Romania - countries that don't hate the US and would like to have us there. I am sure there are many people in Poland who would love to have Ami soldiers there.. hell with Poland's history and sandwiched between Russia and Germany, I bet our soldiers would be appreciated.

@Scout
Scout, you can't imagine how nice it is looking at this crap from outside of Germany. Gives you something to look forward to. In the meantime, enjoy Europe while you can. Travel your brains out. Visit Poland on vacation.
Although a bit run down, Poland has everything a tourist could want..
history, beautiful old cities (Gdansk, Krakow, Torun), a beautiful seashore, beautiful mountains (go to Zakopane), or woods and lakes (the Mazury district).

Other advantages - it's cheap, you can get by with English or German, and the people are very America friendly.

Plus you can pump money into economies where America is appreciated.

Romania is another interesting option.

the baltics are also quite interesting.

Screw the Germans, eastern Europe deserves our support!

[commonsense]

What media do Germans trust? There's a poll out just today, by the TNS Emnid Institute, that says: 60% of Germans completely trust their local paper, 53% trust the state-owned radio, 52% trust the state-owned TV, 35% trust magazins, 33% trust private radio, 26% trust private TV, and 20% trust the Internet.
So, more than half of them trust their state-sponsored broadcasters, and more than a third trust those publications that includes the glamour press and the likes. Talk about a sense of reality. That's where all the fuchurs get their info from. No Michael Yon, No Bill Roggio, just the state sponsored crap.
One more thought: there's a number of German words, that Americans have taken into their language in the past. I think it's about time Amerika learns a new German expression now: "Gleichschaltung". Heh.

[fuchur]

re:Broder/Spiegel

First of all, I'd like to again make very clear that Broder, too, finds no factual errors whatsoever in the documentary.
So, I repeat, because some people here apparently haven't quite grasped this yet: The documentary is factually correct and disbunks the conspiracy theories it talks about. These are the hard facts.

Then, I'd like to point out an obvious misinformation of Broder: He claims that the ZDF poll was a poll among the viewers of the documentation, and suggests that the documentation is to be blamed for the poll result. That's of course total nonsense - we don't know whether the participants even watched the documentation at all, or whether their opinion was influenced by the documentation, in case they watched it. In fact, the poll was already online before the documentary aired.

Be that as it may. Broder doesn't find much fault with the documentary itself, but he finds the poll "scandalous", because it's "shameless" to put facts up for discussion.
Coming from Broder, the hypocrisy is ludicrous: Broder is a prominent critic of the climate change hype, and has continually attacked Al Gore for saying that the discussion on climate change is "over". Broder eloquently elaborates that discussions can never be closed, that we can never be 100% sure, that it's facist to try to suppress dispute, and so on.
Now that the shoe is on the other foot, things are remarkably different. Now we learn that there are certain "facts" that must not be questioned, nay, not even put up for discussion in opinion polls!

Especially ludicrous is Broder's lecture that opinion polls can't be used to find out the truth. What a silly strawman! This ZDF opinion poll is just that: an opinion poll. Nobody ever claimed that we should accept the result of that opinion poll as the truth.

[fuchur]

the poll is still there, btw.

[lars]

@ all

after first hearing about that documentary one could have thought: well, just another weird piece of ****. the title and the way it was advertised clearly seemed to be appealing to all those ct nutters.

that was before it was shown.
the documentary presents all kinds of conspiracy theories just to rip them apart one after the other, not just in the final 2 or 3 minutes.
the way it was advertised appeals to that part of the society that believes the us orchestrated the attacks. i think many of them indeed did tune in. and guess what happened - they were confronted with reality. poor folks.

i really don't know what all this fuss is about. i can't see anything wrong with trying to debunk all those conspiracy theories about 9/11. a less controversial way of promoting it wouldn't have made those who are desperately in need of a dose of reality tune in.

[Mir]

@ fuchur

Do you know the difference between a fact and a theory? Probably not, so here's an easy example: It's a fact that humans exists. It's a theory that they were predominantly responsible for "global warming". That said, of course you can question facts as well. Denying the existance of humans would make you look rather stupid though, as do all the conspiracy theories make people who take them seriously look stupid.

>> This ZDF opinion poll is just that: an opinion poll. Nobody ever claimed that we should accept the result of that opinion poll as the truth.

Of course not. The poll is just an indicator of how far away from reality (way too) many people in Germany are, especially in regard to the US. And the German MSM has to share a big part of the blame for that.

@ lars

>> the documentary presents all kinds of conspiracy theories just to rip them apart one after the other, not just in the final 2 or 3 minutes.

Just proof that George Bush even controls the ZDF, isn't it?

[lars]

Just proof that George Bush even controls the ZDF, isn't it?
huh?

as someone earlier on mentioned. many people who think the us is behind the attacks can't be bothered with facts.
but if there's a possibility to convince at least a few of those wackos, one should try. those people won't tune in if they expect a "pro-american propaganda flic". it's as simple as that.
if you want to reach such an audience, just pretend to present new, controversial, never-seen-before-"facts" and they'll probably watch it.

will they finally get it? well, i don't know. hopefully at least a few will.

[RayD]

Yes - the poll results are back up after they were apparently down for a while (or I was having computer problems). I've removed the update since it no longer applies.

[Pamela]

@Charlie
Ask Eva Herman. Oohps, I guess we can't.

Somebody clue me in please. Who is Eva Herman.

Someone mentioned Rosie O'Donnell. For our German friends, she is a comedienne/actress who is convinced 9/11 was an inside job. Because if WTC 7 collapsed due to fire, "it would be the first time in history fire melted steel".

Somebody should tell her about Dresden.

[Bartolo]

@Pamela

Eva Herman is a former news speaker/moderator with the regional public television outlet NDR.
She has been fired recently for saying that "many things in the Third Reich were very bad, for example Adolf Hitler" while "some things were also good, for example the appreciation of mothers".
She has written several books on how women need to embrace a more traditional role model in order to prevent the decay of German society. I have not read these books, so don't ask me for details on her views.

[lars]

eva herman thinks that the "radical" sixties (feminism, et al.) are responsible for the supposed destruction of family values. she basically said that values like motherhood, children and family that were promoted by the nazis were "scrapped" by the 68-movement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6986687.stm

this isn't just outrageous, it's also utterly stupid. the nazis saw women as breading machines and they armed children to defend the "fatherland". really nice "family values".

[Pamela]

Oh, so that's her name. I had heard of the incident.

Some people really are tone deaf, aren't they? Over here, there was a talk show host, Don Imus, who got canned because he called the women on a basketball team - most of whom are black - "nappy-headed 'hos".

No fixing stupid, I guess.

[fuchur]

@Mir

Do you know the difference between a fact and a theory?

Are you aware that you're venturing deeply into philosphical territory here? Smart men have pondered long and hard over that question. I think Erkenntnistheorie is a philosophical branch of its own.

That said, of course you can question facts as well.

Yep, that's the problem.

would make you look rather stupid

Well, a lot of people who looked rather stupid in the beginning turned out to be right in the end.

[hobo]

Fuchur, sorry for lashing out at you like that in my comment above. I admit I didn`t watch the doc (and still can`t- the site doesn`t seem to like my PC)and made my remarks based on the description made by the fellow commenters. However what was really buggin me was you excusing it by "giving room to opinions". So when will they honestly discuss the protocols of the elders of Zion? Discussing such crap on eyes height means making it an legitimate point.
And the polls irresponsibly - and intentionally one is tempted to think- give the nuts the occassion to assure themselves of each other- and it sure hits back on the broadcaster who didn`t seem to have been able to get the real world across the last 6 years. While it`s revealing and as such interesting for us, this really shouldn`t be done by a public broadcaster.
Whats disgusting is that they still have to lecture about something new they "revealed" and offer as compromise and consolation- so the nuts aren`t totally deprived of their sense of superiority.

[Pamela]

SCOUT

If you read this - I posted a link on the "Accident" thread you may be able to use to educate your kafiya (sp?) fashonistas.

[Pamela]

@fuchar
Are you aware that you're venturing deeply into philosphical territory here? Smart men have pondered long and hard over that question. I think Erkenntnistheorie is a philosophical branch of its own.

No, stupid men ponder this. The rest of the men have wives who teach them that knowledge 'theory' goes straight to hell the nanosecond they fuck up.

[fuchur]

@hobo
No hard feelings :-)

[JorgAtlanticReview]

The narrator of the ZDF "documentary" is the German voice of Kiefer Sutherland, i.e. Jack Bauer of "24."

Of course, ZDF viewers believe in a conspiracy after listening to Jack Bauer.

[garydausz]

@fuchur
The documentary has been announced in the ZDF websites as well as in program medias in a way that you would think it is a documentary which reveals "new" facts that support the conspiracy theories. So everybody who didn't see it but saw the advertisements for it would think "see, even ZDF has some doubts".
The documentary itself is setup in a way that first the conspiracy theories get a long time to make their point, backed-up by guys like that former german research minister Von Buehlow which germans clearly give a lot of credit as he has been a "research minister" (how much this tells us about the sorry state germany is in is up to you), then there is a short (and in my opinion weak) debunking of these theories with a lot of buts at the end which leave you with the impression that there is still something.
The intention, in my opinion, is clear. They couldn't clearly support the theories because that would have caused some turmoil even in germany, but instead they still spread the message that there is something wrong with the official explanation. Im my view it is another example of biased information given by state run german TV. In the internet I find plenty of sites that do a much better job of debunking the troofers and if it would have been the intention of this docu to do just that they could have done it in a much more convincing way.

[JorgAtlanticReview]

@ Scout

"Yes, Fuchur, there was a lot on television yesterday, and most of it was leftist socialist crap. Instead of just honouring those who died and clearly stating who did it"

Saddam did it, right?

41% of Americans answered 'Yes' to the question "Do you think Saddam Hussein’s regime in Iraq was directly involved in planning, financing, or carrying out the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001?" That total is actually up 5 points since September 2004.
Source: Atlantic Review

And this poll is much more scientific than the ZDF online poll.

Conspiracy Theories are popular around the world....

[JorgAtlanticReview]

Scout, how come everybody is talking about Iraq on 9/11 instead of "just honouring those who died and clearly stating who did it."

[Don]

"I haven't watched the "documentary" but if 99% of the time is spent on presenting the conspiracy theories and 1%"

@WhatDoIKnow, commonsense wrote that 43 minutes were devoted to the conspiracy theories and 2 minutes to the debunking. So you are being completely unfair - just like all of us Americans.

ZDF devoted 95% of the programme to the theories and 5% to the debunking - thus proving the complete fairness and balance of ZDF and by extension, all Germans.

Shame on you! ;)