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"...such as the claim that American medical personnel at Guantanamo made a regular practice of amputating the healthy body parts of inmates..."

No one in their right mind could possibly believe such nonsense. Of course, the German media and apparently much of the German public is not in its "collective" right mind, being instead under the influence of that dangerous, hallucinogenic, psychologically addictive drug called hatred. They are so far gone that they care neither where they get their next fix, nor what kind of nasty stuff it has been laced with.

I was curious...were there really any amputations at Guantanamo?

Well, if you do a Google search on "Guantanamo amputation", you will indeed find some references to amputations there. In each case I found (at least 3 are mentioned in various articles), the amputations were because of serious infections of wounds suffered before the detainees got to Guantanamo.

So, were there amputations performed? Yes, apparently so.

Were they unnecessary? I'm inclined to think not. As beimami says, "No one in their right mind could possibly believe such nonsense." However, I can easily imagine the person being amputated telling others, "They didn't have to do that...my mangled, frostbitten, infected foot was perfectly fine. Why did they cut my leg off?"

Of course, if they hadn't provided proper medical care and detainees had died from treatable infections, I imagine a few folks would be agitated about that, too.

Kind of a catch-22, I suppose.

As an aside, does anyone else find it ironic that in many parts of this world amputation of healthy body parts is a routine form of punishment for often petty crimes?

Where's the outrage?


"Die Tagesspiegel" has published a caricature mocking the mentioning the Polish victims of 2nd World War by Polish president during the diplomatic showdown in Brussels last friday.


How low can German press can sink?

What I find remarkable is how the German MSM got interested in the case only after Kurnaz was released. They didn't publish much in favour of him while he was in there. They didn't make any attempt to build up public pressure (like they do in so many other cases) to try and get him out. That leaves the conclusion they aren't interested in him as a human being, they are only interested in how they can exploit his fate for their political agenda. The longer he actually stayed in Gitmo, the more he was useful for the German media.

@Common Sense, this might be why "they aren't interested in him as a human being..."

The German BKA Dossier on Murat Kurnaz

(The BKA is the German equivalent of the FBI.)

There are two things very interesting about this disgusting amputation libel. The first is that it is not really new. I remember a Palestinian leaflet I got years ago at the university where they accused the Israelis to take Palestinanians to the hospital where they amputate their limbs under fake medical reasons only to punish them.

The second is that it is spread by people who fight for Arab regimes and islamist terrorists who openly use amputations as a means of punishment, in Saddam Hussein's torture chambers as well as in Saudi-Arabia's legal system, not to mention the captives of al-Qaida. I think that's what they call "psychological projection".

The consistent pattern here is that for any evil in the world a story is made up that these who fight against that evil were much worse.

Sharia means you can get your hand hacked off because an evil rumour? But look what the Americans are doing in Guantanamo!

This behaviour can be described as Fear Shifting Syndrome (Angstverschiebungssyndrom). If I fear something, and cannot control that fear because it appears so overwhelming, a lie that the danger was coming from something relatively harmless can help me imagine that the real source of the danger was in fact harmless, and restore my control of my feelings, or at least the appearance thereof, especially if there is a consensus what prop is to be used.

This implies that the patients afflicted by this do not hate their prop of choice any more than themselves. Although they would never admit so, their motivation is not hatred but fear, not strength but weakness. But the longer they are trying to hide their uncomfortable feelings the deeper they are digging into their sustaining lie and clinging to their prop. Without that lightning rod they would melt down.

The downside of this mental substitution is that it works best when it comes closest to the truth, and unfortunately the closest such thing is the inversion of reality, so the shifted fear is projected against the thing most useful to change the reality to something less fearful. Thus the Fear Shifting Syndrome leads into a vicious spiral of less grasp on reality and more absurdity and fear.

To put it short, lunatics in fear of Islam are demonising America for the same reasons that Americans in fear of lunacy were demonising `Marijuana´. Lets hope this time it does not work out into a prohibition enforced by religious police. Maybe get rid of the prototype instance of Fear Shifting Syndrome.

I have a question for the people here who are living ing Germany.

I've been reading news reports on Germans' resentment of the mosque being built in Cologne next to the cathedral.

Is there any chance that the German media's penchant for sympathetic, obviously outrageous claims of Islamists will eventually backfire on German media?

OT via Gates of Vienna, can we get a German translation????

Last month Sappho, the Danish online magazine, published an interview with the German sociologist Gunnar Heinsohn about the ramifications of the demographic implosion in Europe, and the simultaneous demographic explosion of the Muslim population, both in Europe and the Middle East.

I consider Dr. Heinsohn’s cogent observations to be the among the most important scholarly work on the nature of the Great Jihad that the West is now facing. We were fortunate to be able to carry the English translation, “A Continent of Losers”, here at Gates of Vienna.

Now comes word that the blog Insoumission has posted a large portion of the interview in French translation.

So, to our Francophone readers: spread the word to anyone who might want to read Gunnar Heinsohn in French.

If anyone knows of other languages into which the interview has been translated, please send me the links. This piece needs to be disseminated as widely as possible.

Pamela - This situation is a Gordian knot. The problem with the anti-mosque protests is that you will find Nazis that oppose the mosque and Anti-Nazis that favour anything the Nazis oppose. I haven´t seen reports yet about anyone trying to do that, but if you were to carry an Israeli flag through these protests and counterprotests you may experience attempts to set it on fire on both sides of the police lines.

If you aren´t doing already, keep an eye on Ralph Giordano.

I think Paul put it well as Shifting Fear, especially globally. But with Europeans this has been going on forever, since before there was a United States. Don't forget, we rejected Euope and came here. Note that this is mostly projection. Projection is a baptism...of mud...you give SOMEBODY ELSE...by smearing yourself off on him. Much of this harks back the the Left's constant hectoring about guilt from WWII. A very unwholesome mentality and one that has NOT learned the lesson of WWII. The lesson isn't to play Switzerland. The lesson is to not look the other way when you brother is attacked. Duh.

Sounds like a lot of folks over there have a hatred management problem.

I want all the American people to see and read what's in the German press. Period. Just see and read it.

There would be a sudden silence heard round the world.

Ties with Europe would be broken then immediately and we will finally quit blaming the victim - ourselves - for anti-Americanism.

Then we will know WHO is to blame for our bad name. Friends don't give you a bad name.

And we will know that the German people are willfully believing known lies about us, because no one in his right mind could be fooled by such obvious you-know-what as this.

Odd, isn't it. All their screaming, which they portray as evidence against us is actually proof positive, beyond all doubt, of their guilt and bad faith. So lets have this stuff broadcast in English to America. Let's let the American people hear what the German people are saying about us behind our backs.

and its i the nyt?!!!http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/opinion/26davis.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

of course its on the opeds but still..

I wouldn't say that the Islamofascist Kurnaz is a superstar in Germany but a useful idiot of the socialist propaganda machine.

Well, (national) socialism is still alive in Germany as well as anti-Americanism. And yes, it's not the fault of George W. Bush - he's doing a good job. No doubt, many Germans do not agree with the anti-American propaganda driven by the government and the state-controlled media. The majority of the German people love America and they support America in the war on terrorism. In addition, Guantanamo is not a problem for them. The real problem is, they have no voice. Well, there are only socialist parties in Germany. "Linkspartei.PDS" are communists, "Buendnis90/Die Gruenen" are environmental socialists, SPD are progressives, CDU/CSU are national socialists, and FDP are liberal socialists. In short terms, Germany is a socialist country and a free press is somewhat limited in Germany.

Anyway, as a good German I buy American products and I believe in the idea of the Constitution of the United States of America. I owe the United States service men and women my freedom and I will never forget.

God bless America and the military men and women and their families!

@ German Voice

My voice is also that of a German: May God continue to bless America. Nevertheless, we shouldn't deceive ourselves. It's certainly true that by far not all of our countrymen are Anti-American. And yes, Pro-Americans usually have little to no voice in our media. BUT for the claim that the *majority* of the German people supports America (not only in the war on islamofascist terrorism)? I fear the facts suggest otherwise. Have you forgotten the polls that say America and Israel were among the biggest threats to world peace? No, we shouldn't ignore the Anti-Americanism that has been created out of old sentiments, by scapegoat-searching politicians and especially by the propaganda in our media. And we have to be honest with our American friends about the problem.

By the way: I strongly disagree with labeling the CDU/CSU as national socialists. It's true, in more than one issue they have adopted left-wing mainstream "solutions", but that doesn't make your assumption correct. Their inability to resist the political correct media machinery will backfire and hopefully it will change again.


I give a big nothing on faked polls. And yes, CDU and CSU have always been national socialist parties.

It's amazing that some people believe that ALL former NSDAP (Adolf Hitler's party) members left Germany after WWII. In fact, the most of them became members of CDU, CSU, FDP, and SPD.

Well, after the reunification of Germany, ALL communists and Stasi-agents of the former GDR left Germany too, right? Not? Agreed, Angela Merkel became chancellor and others are still in charge too. Stop dreaming and open your eyes! Germany is a (national) socialist nanny-state.

Political correct media? Indeed, the media in Germany are state-controlled, not vice versa. Again, stop dreaming and open your eyes!

Angela Merkel a stasispitzel? So far I´ve only heard that as an introduction to the claim that the Americans were blackmailing here with that secret, as can be easily seen from her subservience to Bush yadda yadda yadda

And nationalistic socialists is not the same as Nationalsozialisten, see the CDU´s performance in the Günther Oettinger case.


Sure, Adolf Hitler was a peacenik and Islamofascism is an environmental movement. However, it's nice that we've talked about that issue.

If they were then Murat Kurnaz would be a gardener.

You´re the German equivalent of a troofer. Just that this country has gone crazy does not necessarily mean that the government was in control of that.


To which country are you referring to? If you're talking about Germany, then be assured that the government is responsible for the anti-American propaganda.

If only "German Voice" was crowned Kaiser tomorrow, then the poor brainwashed sheeple would rejoice, the old nomenklatura would be mercilessly purged, and a Golden Age of German-American friendship would dawn.

Oh brother.


The good thing is that there's no room for an emperor in the western hemisphere anymore. The bad thing is that uneducated folks buy into socialism, anarchism, conspiracy theories, Global Warming lies, anti-Americanism, etc. However, as soon as socialism collapses, these people have to get real. It's just a matter of time and their time is running out.

German-American relationships are well rooted in history and they have survived, and will survive, all attempts of destroying them. So what?

I hope so.

What you´re referring to as socialism is not just some 19th century construct, it´s the serf mentality that Europe has been carrying on since prehistorical times.

The collapse thereof requires a lot more than just a politbüro to go out of the way as in 1989.

FranzisM, Too true! It's a lot of education necessary until democracy will arrive in Europe. Agreed, some countries over there (i.e. Poland) support this idea already. The main problem in Europe is the European Union (EU) which has similar totalitarian structures like the former USSR. Just look at the brainwash propaganda videos at youtube.com/eutube. By the way, the comments are censored and the most comments made will never be published.

An important difference, the Soviets were strong against threats, Europe is weak.

The American unification took place in indepence and isolation, the European one takes place in interdependence and globalisation.

I think of the project of a continental union as a genuinely open experiment. Whether it will produce a democratic republic or an elitarian aristocracy depends on the significance of freedom in the United Nations.

The current outlook in the UN is not quite bright, but it is better than when the situation was invisible. The West was attempting to save it without war, and Islam was seeking to destroy it without war. Both parties deprecated war, but one of them would make war rather than let the union survive, and the other would accept war rather than let it perish, and the war came.

Europe is in the eye of the storm, it will be different when we´re through.

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