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Comments

Ray you should relax, these are not real dolphins ;-)
Or are you ...ummm... worried about something?

1.) You link to an older DMK piece on "Germany's prostitution industry" about the expectation that 40,000 extra prostitutes for the world cup.
Why don't you tell your readers that all these expectations were bullshit and turned out to be wrong rather than repeating these wrong claims here?
The World Cup was a peaceful, friendly mega party for millions of fans from around the world. There is much much less racism, violence, prostitution and sex trafficking than some Americans and others expected. Republican Congressman Christopher Smith's predictions turned out to be wrong. He should note that prostitutes complain about the lack of customers. Soccer fans are too busy celebrating. Smith has never apologized for his unsubstantiated prediction: "Congressman Christopher Smith, chairman of the human rights subcommittee, held a hearing to investigate Germany's World Cup Brothels, because "40,000 women and children [are] at risk of exploitation through trafficking." If a German parliamentarian had made such claims without providing any evidence for this predictions, then you folks at DMK would make a huge fuss about anti-Americanism. 

Why don't you write about the illegal prostitution and sex trafficking in the US? Or explain us why there have been three times more rapes per 100.000 inhabitants in the United States than in Germany in 2004 according to statistics from the FBI and BKA, which is the German equivalent of the FBI.

Why don't you provide an alternative perspective to the Catholic Women against World Cup Grand Bordellos (mentioned in the linked DMK post) as you expect from the German media to be balanced and provide the other side of the argument? Here: "The spokesperson of the Sozialdienstes katholischer Frauen in Köln said those "sex huts" have existed for five years and protect prostitutes against violence and drugs and help them to leave the business." (Source: See above links)

2.) Producing Dolphin Dildos is NOT anti-American.
3.) The article about this production is not Anti-American.
4.) Your comments about the Spiegel article are not "politically incorrect observation on reporting in the German media"  Apparently your problem with dildos and prostitution is that you are pretty conservative and consider both extremely bad. Thus the article about dildos and prostitution is a good opportunity for you to criticize Gemany. You are not interested in criticizing anti-American bias in Germany. You just want to criticize Germany and advocate conservative views regarding sex toys, prostitution. Thus this article fits into your agenda.

Hopefully this silly Spiegel article will help you realize that Spiegel is not just awful in its US coverage. It is just in general an awful populistic, sensationalistic publication. In the old days Spiegel achieved a reputation for investigative stories. This has long faded.
You are in a small minority of folks who expect "Quality Journalism at its Finest" from Spiegel. You just try to make the German media look bad. It is like expecting quality journalism from Entertainment Weekly, Esquirer or this magazine at supermarket counters, which always has something about aliens on the cover. Spiegel is for entertainment. Likewise Stern, which is read by people, who are interested in gossip and celebrity. Anybody interested in international news and quality journalism will only read Stern, when they wait to get a root canal or get a haircut. They don't expect hard-hitting political journalism.

You are ridiculous in your criticism of Spiegel. We all know that it is a bad publication. The "Panorama" section, where this dolphin dildo article first appeared is known as "Pornorama" among Spiegel staff. They publish such stories because many people bored at work click on such stories, i.e. it is good for business. The same with their coverage of the United States. It is all about money. I think hardly anybody in Germany, who is interested in international politics, relies on Spiegel to get information.

Why don't you rename Davids Medienkritik into Davids Spiegelkritik or into Germany Sucks or into Evil Germans Refuse to Live by Republican Values ?

My goodness that's disgusting !!! I'm glad that here, in South Korea, stuff like that is not allowed in the society. It's very strict. And one wonders why Germany has so many social problems !!! Check this link out http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/30/wgerm30.xml
I think that everyone here will be pretty shocked to find out that the German government is forcing unemployed and underworking women into prostitution. And they wonder why people don't want to have kids and their relationships are constantly falling apart, not to mention that German women's status in the world is pretty abismal in comparison to other developed nations.

I don't know why the above link wasn't highlighted, but here I go again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/30/wgerm30.xml

@Jorg

"Or explain us why there have been three times more rapes per 100.000 inhabitants in the United States than in Germany in 2004 according to statistics from the FBI and BKA, which is the German equivalent of the FBI."

Nice copy and paste job, but the BKA statistics do not actually reveal what constitutes rape to be included in their compilation. The FBI, according to your link, defines rape as "Forcible rape, as defined in the Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, is the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will. Assaults and attempts to commit rape by force or threat of force are also included;" Does the BKA include attempts as well?

Also, thanks to lack enforcement of border security and the absence of political will to do anything about it, many of the rapes in the US are committed by illegal aliens who shouldn't even be in the US.

http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html#Illegals

I second what you said, Buckeye Abroad. Living in Asia, I have really seen the dastardly effects of the ueber-sexualisation if the German society. One of the main groups to prey upon South East Asian children sold into sex slavery are German men. This is also true of the children from Eastern Europe who are trafficked as well. The German tourists are not very well viewed in this part of the world because of the sex and drugs in their culture. So many people have tried to disuade me from learning German and going there because of the bad reputation they have here. It's really hard to stay positive about going to Germany one day, when I know the bad things that I will have to face there.

Hmmm actually I thought that Ray's article was meant to be tongue in cheek although...
1) Dildos have nothing to do with prostitution. I think US women use them as much as German women do. I suppose they are legal in the U.S. (althouigh I wouldn't bet on Mississippi)
2) Prostitution in Germany is LEGAL, so get over it. What two consenting adults (and I stress consenting) do and pay for is none of the government's business.
3) I found the Spiegel article quite interesting: A German has an idea and 25 euros, now he has a company and makes millions. Isn't that an American style success story?
4) Most "serious" newspapers have a "lighter" zone to make their readers relax. Even Spiegel readers get tired from all the Antiamerican stories ;-)

jcgirl1979: We don't have social problems because of the oversexualisation of our society but because the people who oppose it violently (muslims).

And the Telegraph story about forced prostitution is just total bullshit: http://dialoginternational.typepad.com/dialog_international/2005/02/forced_prostitu.html
Typical biased anti-German reporting.

@jcgirl1979
1) The Telegraph story was nonsense and has been debunked a long time ago.
2) Please define "children". While some trafficking might exist, the trafficking of children is of course absolutely illegal and police cracks down hard on these activities. It is nowadays very unlikely that you would find underage women in German brothels or nightclubs.
3) Are you seriously trying to say that there is no prostitution in South Korea?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/12/25/korea.prostitutes.reut/

And if you think my blog link is too biased: Here is the Snopes story: http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp

@ Buckeye Abroad.

The BKA link stated that sexuelle Nötigung ("sexual assault") is included in the German statistics about rape.
I think, sexuelle Nötigung even includes some assaults which the FBI rape statistics would exclude. See:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuelle_N%C3%B6tigung

You write: "many of the rapes in the US are committed by illegal aliens who shouldn't even be in the US."

That is everywhere the case. Not just in the US. It is not an excuse anyway. I thought the US would be tough on crime?

Interesting would be to find out, whether legalization of prostitution would reduce the high number of rapes in the US.
Besides, how much (illegal) prostitution is there in the US? How dangerous is that for the prostitutes?

Ray makes a fuss about a Spiegel report about dildos, while putting the Saddam execution snuff video on his blog. Who is more pornographic? Spiegel or DMK? Spiegel is pleasing the sex interest of its readers with silly stories. And DMK is doing something similar.

Isn't watching an execution similar to watching porn?

Christopher Hitchens was in favor of the Iraq war, but criticizes America's "fatalistic passivity that amounts, in theory and practice, to acquiescence in a crude Shiite coup d'état. Thus, far from bringing anything like "closure," the hanging ensures that the poison of Saddamism will stay in the Iraqi bloodstream, mingling with other related infections such as confessional fanaticism and the sort of video sadism that has until now been the prerogative of al-Qaida's dehumanized ghouls. We have helped to officiate at a human sacrifice. For shame."
http://slate.com/id/2156776/fr/rss

I think he exaggerates.
Still you get the message. Not from me, but from someone from your camp. And you know how this video plays in the Arab world. Anti US sentiments increase again. Sunni Muslims make a fuss that Saddam was executed on a holiday for forgiveness. They see the execution as lynching and ignore the fair trial etc. The US has not been prudent enough before turning Saddam from US custody over to Maliki's and Al Sadr's henchmen. I fear that the US will not be prudent enough before leaving Iraq, i.e. the US will turn over power to folks like Maliki prematurely.

Hitch again: "How could it have come to this? Did U.S. officials know that the designated "executioners" would be the unwashed goons of Muqtada Sadr's "Mahdi Army"—the same sort of thugs who killed Abdul Majid al-Khoei in Najaf just after the liberation and who indulge in extra-judicial murder of Iraqis every night and day? Did our envoys and representatives ask for any sort of assurances before turning over a prisoner who was being held under the Geneva Conventions?"


@ Amelie

"Hmmm actually I thought that Ray's article was meant to be tongue in cheek although..."

Tongue-in-cheek comments and the frequently featured "humor" at DMK is just supposed to avoid criticism.

Fact is Ray recommended the reading of his old post about "Germany's prostitution industry." The estimates concerning 40,000 foreign prostitutes for the world cup were baseless (i.e. should not have been published in the first place) and later proofed to be totally wrong as explained above.

Of course Ray does not say that. He links to his wrong stuff anyway.

Never let the facts get in the way to smear Germany. After all, facts have a liberal bias. DMK is not about politically incorrect observations, but just features incorrect observations.

Likewise jcgirl1979 still links to Telegraph story. And the Telegraph does not admit its mistake either.
Journalistic mistakes and bias are only of concern to Medienkritik authors and commentators when they are against the US.

Yes, you do have problems and it is spilling over into other countries. I'm not going to get into an argument in this forum. In South Korea, we do have a small amount on prostitution but it is illegal and if found out is punished harshly, with prison terms. Most people here abhor it and think it is horrible. They are finding new ways to save women out of such a life and give them assistance to build a new one. On another note, did you know that 1-2 million women and children (yes some as young as 10 years of age) are trafficked around the world ? I did a major university project on this.

@Jorg
I think Ray has just been getting too many "enlarge offers" lately and is fearing the new dolphin competition ;-)
As to prostitution: I don't think there is less of it in the U.S. It is just illegal, that's all.
And if I'm not mistaken the biggest porn industry in the world is based right in "clean" Hollywood.

Ok it's Wikipedia, so I can't vouch for autheticity. But "small amount"???

"Prostitution in South Korea is a large illegal industry. The Ministry of Gender and Family Equality estimated that it comprises over 4% of South Korea's GDP, with revenue exceeding $22 billion[1][2]. Prostitution ranges from streetwalkers in red light districts to expensive "room salons" for private parties[3]. Out of a total population of about 48 million, there are 1.2 million women engaged in the sex industry [4], according to one civic organization. Official government estimates put the figure closer to 500,000.[5] The government stopped keeping official figures in 2004. South Korea is also a source, destination, and transit country for human trafficking; a significant number of women from Uzbekistan and Southeast Asia (particularly the Philippines) are brought to the country to work as prostitutes or "juicy girls", many of whom are believed to be virtual slaves. An increasing number of women are being taken to the United States, Canada, and Australia to work as prostitutes, and a number of them claim to have been tricked or forced.

A doubled barber's pole with red, white, and blue is a common sign that a building contains a brothel or a massage parlor that offers sexual services. Other means of advertising are more explicit, including cards and flyers distributed haphazardly on city sidewalks or placed on the windowshields of parked cars, with pictures of scantily clad women accompanied by directions, telephone numbers, and sometimes maps and accepted credit cards.

In 2004, the government passed the Act on the Prevention of the Sex Trade and Protection of its Victims, a sweeping new law criminalizing human trafficking and stiffening penalties for brothel owners, establishing a number of shelters for victims and ending their automatic deportation. Some Korean sex workers, however, protested what they saw as a threat to their livelihoods. The law's passage was followed by a crackdown which reports indicate was unsuccessful at making prostitution less lucrative or popular."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_South_Korea

@ Jorg

>> In the old days Spiegel achieved a reputation for investigative stories. This has long faded.

Amen.

>> I think hardly anybody in Germany, who is interested in international politics, relies on Spiegel to get information.

You know very well that isn't true. Way too many (I'm not saying most) Germans indeed do get their "news" and "facts" exclusively from sources like Spiegel, Stern, Tagesschau etc. How on earth could German mainstream "opinions" be as they are if that wasn't the case? Now that there's no way to deny the anti-American bias of Spiegel and Stern anymore, you are trying to make it look as if their style of reporting was unusual in the German media landscape. It isn't, unfortunately. Of course not all newspapers and magazines are as bad. But as far as I know, no one - including DMK - has ever claimed that they were.

@jcgirl1979: Do you realize how ridiculous some of your statements are?

Get a clue. Start with your home, South Korea. Then come back and tell me.

@ Mir
>> I think hardly anybody in Germany, who is interested in international politics, relies on Spiegel to get information.

You know very well that isn't true.

Then prove me wrong.
I gave the qualifying statements "who is interested in international politics" and "relies on". Thus you need to realize that Spiegel is a weekly magazine. Hardly anybody reads only a weekly magazine. Most folks read a daily newspaper. Strongly pro-American papers of the Axel Springer company have the largest circulation in Germany.
Most Spiegel and Spiegel Online readers are not interested in international politics. Other papers hardly ever quote from Spiegel's international politics coverage.

You write: "Way too many (I'm not saying most) Germans indeed do get their "news" and "facts" exclusively from sources like Spiegel, Stern, Tagesschau etc."

"Way too many" is a pretty weak statement. I agree with that statement. It does not contradict what I wrote earlier.
I also think that way too many conservative Americans get their "news" and "facts" about Germany from Medienkritik.
I think way too many conservative Americans get their "news" and "facts" from FOX News, totally one-sided blogs and silly talk radio.
Getting news only from FOX and conservative talk radio (Limbaugh, O'Reilly etc) is at least as bad as getting news only from Tagesspiegel, Spiegel and Stern.

Why don't discuss the other issues mentioned in this threat, which actually refer to Ray's post?

Maybe "relies" was not clear enough. I meant rely in the sense of "depending" and "trusting", i.e. refered to folks who rely solely (=only) on Spiegel and do not read other news sources like a daily paper.

@ Amelie

Well, yes, it was supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek piece. As has been the case often lately, Jorg seems to fly off the handle a bit when we even imply criticism of Germany.

@ Jorg

Are you denying there is a sex industry in Germany and that prostitution is essentially allowed? Do we really know exactly how many legal and illegal prostitutes came into the country or not during the World Cup? Do you deny that there were large bordellos built especially for the event? What does that have to do with rape statistics?

BTW: After watching the German media shamelessly bash the United States for the past years, it is pretty sad that some Germans have such a thin skin that they cannot take the slightest provocation. How the heck do you think Americans feel Jorg? The German MASS media, which reaches tens of millions, is doing far worse than making some innocent dolphin humor. If you are pissed-off about this site, you ought to be about one-million times as angry about German media.

Ray,

Thanks for strarting a topic which Jorg could comment on.

Speaking of German firms penetrating the US market, I just happened to run across this little item in my peregrinations through the web. Engelhard was once one of the top fabricators of precious metals in the US. It was taken over by the German chemical firm BASF. Among the results of this takeover, as noted blandly and matter-of-factly on the web page, was a "reduction of approximately 800 positions."

It is interesting to note what didn't happen in response to this German takeover and the consequent loss of 800 American jobs. Germans were not caricatured on the cover of Time magazine as bloodsucking parasites in the style of Metall, as portrayed on the panel to your right. A German jackboot crushing American workers did not appear on the cover of Newsweek in the style of Stern, as portrayed on the panel to your right. No hysterical articles appeared in the US media condemning the evil Germans, in the style of the German media in general. No hate was peddled by large magazines to exploit the loss of these 800 jobs for financial gain. In fact, I never would have noticed the fate of those 800 American workers at all if I hadn't coincidentally been looking for some information on Engelhard.

That, my friends, is one of the principle differences between Germany and the US today.

@Helian
You might want to revisit the U.S. coverage of the Daimler Benz/Chrysler merger.

"You might want to revisit the U.S. coverage of the Daimler Benz/Chrysler merger."

I'm cool with that, Amelie. Please, don't be shy, go ahead and post the US magazine covers you're referring to.

@ Jorg

>> I gave the qualifying statements "who is interested in international politics" and "relies on".

And how do you define who qualifies as being "interested in international politics"? I'd say everyone thinks of him- or herself als "interested" when it comes to the real important issues. That doesn't prevent people from relying on the old media and still thinking of themselves as being informed. Worse: If they indeed aren't interested, they won't even try to find other opinions than those in German MSM.

>> Most folks read a daily newspaper.

Sure. I take it you also read German newspaper(s) on a daily basis? Then you should know that many of them aren't better than Spiegel or Stern, some (the smaller ones) tend to be even worse in regard to their commentaries.

>> Strongly pro-American papers of the Axel Springer company have the largest circulation in Germany.

Please. How do you define "strongly pro-American" now? Is everything that doesn't follow the anti-American mainstream per se "strongly pro-American"? (I wish they were.)

>> I think way too many conservative Americans get their "news" and "facts" from FOX News, totally one-sided blogs and silly talk radio.

Have you watched FOX News? Have you listened to this "silly" talk radio? Are you therefore even able to compare them to German mass media? Well, I didn't think so.

@Helian
Had I known in 1998 that I would need US magazine covers of that time in 2007 I would have kept them...

As for right wing talk radio:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53245

I would like to know why this guy hasn't been arrested yet

"Had I known in 1998 that I would need US magazine covers of that time in 2007 I would have kept them..."

It would have been pointless for you to keep them, because nothing even remotely comparable to the Stern and Metall covers ever appeared. I wonder why people like you keep denying the obvious. How is it that your precious country's reputation is so sacred that you are willing to serve as a rationalizer and apologist for hate pedlars, to deny the most vile wrong instead of fighting it, or to fob it off by pretending that "the Americans do the same thing?" The facts concerning the buying and selling of anti-American hate in Germany have been amply documented on this blog and elsewhere. You, Jorg, and the rest of your ilk simply demonstrate that, in addition to the hate consumers and sellers in Germany, there are also a large group of self-proclaimed apologists whose game is to deny that anything is going on, or, if it is, that it is in any way exceptional. You don't have a problem with hate, as long as it isn't directed at you. Your country's shining reputation is another matter, though. You will tolerate or rationalize any wrong to try to prevent anyone from seeing through that facade.

I haven’t had the chance yet to analyze Joerg’s comparison of BKA statistics with FBI statistics. If you recall the last time that we compared German criminal statistics with American criminal statistics, the BKA did not define what we in the Anglo Saxon world would call voluntary manslaughter as being murder, where the FBI statistic, “homicide,” did include involuntary manslaughter. This difference in definition really skewed Joerg’s comparison. If I recall, Joerg claimed that the U.S. murder rate was six times higher than the German murder rate. When you included voluntary manslaughter, it was more like 1.8 to one. Then again, when you compared the murder rate among White Americans, it was virtually the same as that of Germany.

I know from my personal observation of the county jails where I practice law, that drugs are no longer the primary reason why most first time criminals are locked up: Sexual assault and domestic violence are. Most of these guys are foreigners: both legal and illegal. There is a big cultural gap of what a man can get away with in mistreating a woman in the Third World than what is permitted in U.S. society. I am sure Germany does not allow its women to be mistreated either. However, Germany does not have as many aliens living amongst them as we do. Also, the antidotes of Muslims mistreating women in Germany have been well documented.

German/Euro sex trade: One of the most loathsome businesses that exist in Europe is Lauda Air. Lauda Air was founded by former Formula One race car champion Nicky Lauda and is based in Vienna. Lauda Air specializes in taking perverts of both sexual persuasions on sex tours of South East Asia. I do not know if Korea is a destination, but Thailand is the favorite destination. There are brothels in Thailand that specialize in offering up both young boys and girls to Westerners with this particular need of sexual gratification.

Dophins: you guys in Europe are missing a great US TV commercial that is presently running, The telecommunications company Vonnage has a slogan “Don’t do any thing stupid before you choose not to choose us.” A beautiful but dumb blond is lying on a beach with her husband/boyfriend. Suddenly there are shark fins protruding from the water. The blond points to the water and exclaims, “Look honey, dolphins....lets go swimming!” A Vonnage worker hits her over the head with a Vonnage owners manual before she steps in the water.

@Helian, nowhere have I said that I approve those covers, Stern, Spiegel or in US magazines. Unfortunately I have to rely on my memory only but I do remember pictures of a German crushing a US worker with a beer stein, and the headline read: "The Germans are coming".
Someone with access to Lexis-Nexis might still find it.
And again: I'm not a German

@George M
You are talking BS about Lauda Air. They are an airline that flies to Bangkok, like so many other.
I think you should be careful with such an outlandish claim, you could be sued by them in a heartbeat.

"@Helian, nowhere have I said that I approve those covers, Stern, Spiegel or in US magazines..."

It doesn't make any difference what you claim to approve or disapprove, or what nationality you happen to be. Your particular game isn't to deny the gross hate peddling in the German media. Instead, you pretend that America is "just as bad." That's a lie. Anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty who looks at the facts that have been documented on this blog for years, and then looks for anything similar in scope or significance in the US media, will quickly see through your lie. For that reason, it's pointless to argue with you. I simply point you out as one of the reasons that the problem is so persistent, as another part of the cause, rather than the solution.

@George M
I just checked the schedule of Lauda Air. They are not even flying to Bangkok as it seems.

@Helian
You are distorting whatever I said. I specifically replied to a claim that you cannot find similar Anti-German coverage in US news. That you would find less is quite obvious. Germany just isn't that important to US readers as the US is to German readers. The coverage of Germany was certainly far worse in the UK to a point that English visitors of the World Cup in Germany where surprised to finf easy going friendly Germans and not lederhose wearing Nazis with a stahlhelm.

>> I think way too many conservative Americans get their "news" and "facts" from FOX News, totally one-sided blogs and silly talk radio.

Response: I think way too many Germans get their 'news' and 'facts' from one-sided Michael Moore movies and books, whom I call 'the blowhard son of Leni Riefenstahl'.

@Amelie.
I am a former Detroiter. During the Daimler-Chrysler 'fusion' (read: Takeover),
I do not recall any German bashing. No magazines with a goose stepping Germans reading 'Nazi Methods', as they crushed American workers.
Was there complaints about the takeover? Sure there were. But I don't recall any cheap shots or any anti-German Volkshetzerei...
This was before I moved to Germany, so I may not have noticed it, but I do know that
German bashing in the US is nothing compared to ami bashing in Germany.#
The only ethnic group/nation which is mocked in the USA is FRANCE :D:D:D:D

Right, Amelie, rationalize, minimize, equivocate, apologize. There's nothing exceptional or worth commenting on here. Just move along.


>> I think hardly anybody in Germany, who is interested in international politics, relies on Spiegel to get information.

@Jorg,

I work for a multinational (American owned) firm.
My colleague, an well educated professional German, is frequently surfing the web.
Most of the time he is looking at Spiegel.de. When he talks to me about America,
he bases his comments on what he has read there.
and a great friend of AMerica he is not. (based on his behavior, he has been described as an
Ami hasser by a German friend of mine)

Jorg

You're saying that Spiegel may be bad, OK, maybe Stern too, but they are not representative of the German media. The German media is much more...well, how is it, Jorg? How much better is it?

How well does the rest of the media inform the Germans? How many angles do they cover in a story related to the US? I agree, they are not as bad as Spiegel, but how much better are they? Where does the widespread misinformation about the US come from, if not from the media? Do you remember Eberhard Pilz?

Jorg, sorry, but you have become so pathetic that even a possibly lame joke such as this has you going nuts. DMK does indeed go at times in "different" directions just for fun. You may not enjoy this fun. Who knows, maybe I or others don't either. So what? DMK's exposure of anti-American bias in the German media, not only Spiegel, is 100% accurate

In my naivity I sincerely thought that after the Eberhard Pilz "moment" the DMK critics would have the honesty to admit that DMK has been right all along (even if some posts might be considered irrelevant). Well, I was wrong. As usual, the problem is not the German media, no, they do their best to improve German-American relations. The problem is the messenger, DMK, for being too loud, too aggressive, too this, to that...

Jorg, how can I consider you an honest person, when your only contributions are about rationalizing the anti-American bias in the German media (when not denying it)? How can I take you seriously? I am not saying that I would take you seriously only if you joined the choir, but when very prominent German journalists talk openly about anti-American bias, what should I do with your words and views What are they good for? What's their value?

Amelie de Saintronges:

"You are talking BS about Lauda Air. They are an airline that flies to Bangkok, like so many other."

"I think you should be careful with such an outlandish claim, you could be sued by them in a heartbeat."

A legal defense to libel is the truth. I did an AOL Search using the key words "Lauda Air" and "sex tours." I came up with five pages of hits.

According to some of these articles, Lauda Air gives you a complementary post card of a topless pre-pubescent Asian girl that a proper pervert can send to his fellow perverts back home.

@ Ray

"Are you denying there is a sex industry in Germany and that prostitution is essentially allowed?"

Don't waste my time with such question. Please read what I wrote and respond to what I wrote.

"Do we really know exactly how many legal and illegal prostitutes came into the country or not during the World Cup?"

We know that your number 40,000 was a wild guess and proofed to be completely off the mark.
Don't try to defend yourself with silly Rumsfeldian rhetoric. Your response sounds like Rummy's "The absence of evidence for WMD is not evidence for the absence of WMD."

"Do you deny that there were large bordellos built especially for the event? What does that have to do with rape statistics?"

Just take some time to read my comment after work. I already explained: Interesting would be to find out, whether legalization of prostitution (like in Germany) would reduce the high number of rapes in the US.


@ Everybody
Just read what I wrote, incl. the links. Don't ask me unrelated questions. If you want answers from me, respond first to some of my questions. Thanks.

@ GeorgeM

"Then again, when you compared the murder rate among White Americans, it was virtually the same as that of Germany."

No, not "virtually the same."
Besides, why don't you count black Americans? If you think it is okay not to count black Americans and all those illegals you blame for every evil in the world, then I would like to exclude certain groups in the German statistics as well. Then the difference between the US and Germany is big again.

Moreover, my point was about law enforcement and the murder rate in the US and Germany. Not about ethnic groups.
Folks like you often make fun of welfare states, our economic performance and of Europe being soft on crime, while the US economy provides marvellous oppurtunities for everyone, has the best police force in the world and tough on crime. So, why does your criminal justice police perform so poorly?

Check this by American law professor Andrew Hammel:

German Joys: Who Controls Crime Policy? Part Deux
"Crime rates in Germany are stable, and many have declined (G) in recent years. Of course, there are hundreds of factors that explain this, including an aging population. However, it can be said with certainty that the fact that Germany's lenient criminal-justice policy is not triggering large increases in serious violent crime.

The paradigmatic nation in which the average citizen does control criminal-justice policy is, of course, the United States. In no other developed nation could the citizens of a state, for instance, reinstate the death penalty by direct public referendum. Further, virtually all local prosecutors are elected directly by the public, as are judges in about half of the states in the U.S.

When the U.S. public wants harsher penalties, therefore, it gets them. The result can be seen in the following chart showing developments in the American prison population, courtesy of The Sentencing Project:

Incarceration_rate_in_us_1

The United States now has the world's highest incarceration rate by a huge margin (the second is Russia). Yet it also has much higher violent-crime rates than Western Europe.

Citizen control over policy-making largely explains these developments. Simply put, Joe Sixpack thinks that locking up more people for longer periods of time is the most effective way to make him safer. On this particular point, Joe Sixpack is wrong. He's wrong because he's ignorant, and he's, unfortunately, ignorant about many other things as well. (Percent of Americans who knew the Republican Party controlled the House of Representatives in 2002: 32. Percent of Americans who knew that the Soviet Union was not a member of NATO in 1964: 38).

However, Joe Sixpack's elected representatives listen to him nonetheless, and try to please him by enacting ever-harsher punishments. Now, let me say that this situation will correct itself: Americans seem to have awakened from their orgy of incarceration with second thoughts. As Winston Churchill once said, you can always count on America to do the right thing, after it's exhausted all the other options. But the human cost, in the meantime, has been enormous."
Source: German Joys

What's your point? The average American is stupid? And American politicians are stupid for listening to their stupid voters? Oh, right, you're not going to answer "unrelated" questions. Nevermind.

I believe the main reason for all the controversy here are the differences in culture.

Surely, if you translate german media reports about americans into english, it sounds a lot harsher than what the american media has to say about germans.

But I believe this is mostly because we germans have a tougher sense for communication. Just compare the comedians of both countries. Whenever I watch american comedians, I have the feeling this kind of humor would never work in germany - it is simply too harmless.

In germany, most comedians are a lot more edged and insulting. This makes most people laugh - and the celebrities who are targeted by the humor just try to ignore it or strike back on the same level. By complaining publicly about it, they would be laughed at even more!

I´m not going to deny the fact that there is some kind of development. I think the tone in german media has become harsher since the millenium. But this probably is only a consequence of a growing self-confidence. Instead of asking themselves whether it is still ok to mention something a certain way, our media seems to prefer thinking only about reaching the german audience and rarely cares about foreign reactions.

Well of course the average American is stupid, they keep supporting NATO even when the euros’ just give it lip service.

The problem in America is there are just not enough elites. We need more Ted Kennedy’s and Jon Curry’s.

@ Jorg

"We know that your number 40,000 was a wild guess and proofed to be completely off the mark."

OK. If it proved to be completely off the mark, where is the evidence of that? Did someone count how many prostitutes actually entered the country? Does that disprove Germany has a prostitution industry? BTW: If you want to argue the virtues of legal prostitution and its impact on rape statistics, that is rather off topic and might be better explored on your own blog.

Another note: Somehow, despite all Mr. Hammel's evidence that Americans (or should I say "Joe Sixpacks") are profoundly stupid and constantly making one mistake after the other, they have managed to construct the most powerful, most prosperous nation on the planet. Now I wonder how he would explain that? I wonder how he would explain the steady drop in crime rates over the past decade (only now starting to go back up in some areas). I'm not saying that America is perfect or that the people are all geniuses. But if Americans are really all as stupid as he makes them out to be, how is it that the country has grown to be such a success? I know Mr. Hammel's blog, and he seems to suffer the same sort of self-loathing that has infected far too many in Germany. I believe it was also Churchill who once said that America is the worst nation on the planet, except when compared to all others.

Finally, I think it is interesting how Jorg is bending, stretching and controting himself out of shape to make us out to be evil neocons who want nothing more than to bash Germany. But if you look at this site, it is pretty obvious that that is not our mission. No. We don't bend over backwards to appear "neutral" around here as Jorg may find appropriate for his site. And we aren't going to change into a pro-Germany tourist propaganda site to please the German left. This is our blog and we are going to say what we think. So far that formula has proven an enormous success and we don't plan to stop. Nice Rumsfeld reference by the way. You forgot to mention Cheney though, David and I golf with him every weekend.

BTW: If I was so "conservative" about sex, prostitution, etc., do you think I would have written about this topic as I did? I'm going to go ahead and clearly label this in the "comedy" category to make what I thought was pretty obvious (more) clear.

@jorg

I want to point this out, but your posts to me jump topics from one paragraph to the next. Maybe we should just schedule a kaffee klatsch and cover them one subject at a time.

"I thought the US would be tough on crime?"

Our violent crime stats continue to drop year-on-year while yours rise. Don't believe me, look at the stats you linked too. I have spent enough time on both continents to recongise the tripe you are peddeling.

"Interesting would be to find out, whether legalization of prostitution would reduce the high number of rapes in the US."

Leftists fallacy. Prostitution, just like illegal drugs and gambling, exist in the US which everyone is aware of regardless of whats on the books. Culturally Americans don't hold authority in high regard no matter what political party one is or isn't affiliated [even that was pointed out by a german lawyer I know]. Think prohibition-- criminalized millions overnight and didn't change a thing but get mobsters and the Kennedys rich.

"Besides, how much (illegal) prostitution is there in the US? How dangerous is that for the prostitutes?"

Probably no more or less than Germany.

"Isn't watching an execution similar to watching porn?"

No, not by a long shot. I haven't seen the execution, though I am glad it was carried out, but I have a CHOICE if I want to watch in or not [disclaimer: I've witnessed executions in Saudi Arabia for lessor offenses than genocide]. I have the choice to view porno, but I decline that as well. Freedom of choice is a great thing indeed, is it not?

"Christopher Hitchens was in favor of the Iraq war, but criticizes America's "fatalistic passivity that amounts, in theory and practice, to acquiescence in a crude Shiite coup d'état. "

Agreed. I have loads of criticism on the handling of it all, but still support the war effort in the ME and recognize the long term goals. Are you a reader of Victor David Hansen and Daniel Pipes per chance?

"Anti US sentiments increase again."

In Europe or Iraq? Sorry, but I got a chuckle out of that.

"Sunni Muslims make a fuss that Saddam was executed on a holiday for forgiveness. They see the execution as lynching and ignore the fair trial etc. The US has not been prudent enough before turning Saddam from US custody over to Maliki's and Al Sadr's henchmen."

I think you are stuffing your assumptions into Iraqi mouths. I agree the Iraqis really flubbed the way of carrying out the sentence, but it was an Iraqi court sentencing him and the US turned him over to those appointed. Bad move on the choice and discretion of carrying out the sentence. I was hoping the GI who found him would've dropped the grenade into his spider hole to spare us alot of hand wringing, but alas.

"I fear that the US will not be prudent enough before leaving Iraq, i.e. the US will turn over power to folks like Maliki prematurely."

My fear as well. In the end there is nothing more than the US can do but try to stabilize and encourage national cohesion until its withdrawl (IMHO circa 2009 due to internal US politics), but its the Iraqis themselves who need to assert themselves. If they don't, they will have a civil war on their hands fueled by a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran at a regional level and the vacuum left behind with those external regional nations holding a vested interest in oil resources.

As a Gulf War vet, I really hope Iraq succeeds and rises above it all and becomes the second democray in the ME. It doesn't look good from my view point [and some of that isn't Iraq's fault], but it isn't impossible either.

@ Everybody
Just read what I wrote, incl. the links. Don't ask me unrelated questions. If you want answers from me, respond first to some of my questions.

Jorg

As I said at one point in the past, you are perfecting the art of drive-by shooting, sorry, commenting. You show up regularly, throw some rocks and then leave, only to return after a while to do the same thing all over again. Also, when you are out of arguments, you're gone.

It's not my business to answer for RayD or DMK. If he linked to a post which is no longer relevant, take it up with him. Don't act like a prima dona and expect everyone else to bow to your wishes. I bet anything you want that you don't even realize how ridiculous and arrogant you are with your demands.

For example, I personally don't care about the rape rate in the US vs. prostitution in Germany. You understand? I do not care! In my own simple thinking I only know this: the German media is incredibly biased, even anti-American, and prominent insiders say this openly. I know one more thing: about 95% of your "contributions" on this blog are about excusing, rationalizing or denying this bias and anti-Americanism.

I'll ask you again: what in the world do I want to have to do with a character like yourself? You don't have the honesty to admit the hard truth, but you have lots of energy to shout at the messenger. If you had the decency to acknowledge the incredibly destructive bias in the German media, I would be completely open at your criticism of DMK. But decency is somehing you're short of.

Gunter,

It could also be the opposite of self confidence. Ever thought of that?

Joe -

could you explain this point? I must admit that I don´t get it.

@jorg

"I also think that way too many conservative Americans get their "news" and "facts" about Germany from Medienkritik."

Ich habe über 12 Jahre in Deutschland gewohnt-- this site is the first alternative to the German state owned media I have ever seen. In my opinion over the years, Germans are duped by their news agencies regarding the world around them and its proof that pandering utopian propaganda didn't die with Hitler or Stalin.

"Getting news only from FOX and conservative talk radio (Limbaugh, O'Reilly etc) is at least as bad as getting news only from Tagesspiegel, Spiegel and Stern."

Bullocks. FOX scares people because the are the first media agency that ever gave a US conservative side of the story. I cannot stand them myself as their reporting style is just as mundane, and insulting, as all the other leftist media lapdogs. Limbaugh is probably the only bono fide "right wing" (purly in US terms) news with pull.

Women are buying dildos in Germany?

The world is coming to an end!

@ Jorg:

I would be much more concerned about the sorts of comments you can read on major German media sites about the USA:

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/nachrichten/usa/86942.asp

Just look at the comments that follow the article. These people are complete idiots (with the exception of Demgenski) who have been brainwashed by German media. They don't even know the details of the case and they are popping-off about how America is some sort of dictatorship. This is the sort of bullshit that we are all getting really f*cking tired of Jorg. The problem is that you hear these sorts of remarks all the time and this is far more common than a lot of people in Germany want to admit. That is the real problem. Time to wake up.

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