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I know it may sound heartless to some...but, I just cannot stop smiling when I look at that comic.

11. He may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch.

Recommended reading: Cesare Beccaria, Dei delitti e delle pene. http://www.constitution.org/cb/crim_pun28.htm (English), http://www.classicitaliani.it/varia/beccari4.htm#del28 (Italian)

The strongest argument is presented in the first two paragraphs:

1. The authority of the law is derived from the bits of liberty every citizen renounces to the state.
2. No citizen would grant the right to the state to kill him.
3. Therefore the state has no right to kill a citizen. When applying the death penalty the state is waging war against a citizen.

In the following paragraphs he argues that imprisonment is also a more effective mean of punishment.

Wermut,

Just keep saying that over and over to yourself. For that matter why not say it to all your friends.

Wermut... whatever you or I might think about it, the Iraqis are the only ones who have any say in what they do with Saddam.

And I suspect that they will execute him... not because of the Shi'ite majority, but because to leave him alive would keep him as a target for rescue by his followers. There would be endless bombings and hostages and other disruptions of society by his followers.

On the other hand, a dead Saddam can't be rescued or ransomed.

They need to execute him quick before congress cuts the funding. Here's where Vietnam comes into play.

German media like to change Bush's speeches:

WAZ: Die Todesstrafe für Saddam Hussein sei eine "große Errungenschaft" für die "junge Demokratie" im Irak, sagte Bush vor jubelnden Anhängern in Texas und später in Nebraska.

http://www.waz.de/waz/waz.infografik.startseite.php

He did not say this!
Not the death penalty was the milestone, it was the trial! It is a journalistic lie. I wonder who started it in the German media.


That's was Bush really said:

"Saddam Hussein was convicted and sentenced to death by the Iraqi High Tribunal. (Applause.) Saddam Hussein trial is a milestone in the Iraqi people's efforts to replace the rule of a tyrant with the rule of law, and it's a major achievement for this young democracy." (Nebraska)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/11/20061105-3.html

"Today, Saddam Hussein was convicted and sentenced to death by the Iraqi High Tribunal for the massacres committed by his regime in the town of Dujayl. Saddam Hussein's trial is a milestone in the Iraqi people's efforts to replace the rule of a tyrant with the rule of law -- it's a major achievement for Iraq's young democracy and its constitutional government." (Texas)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/11/20061105-1.html

@Wermut aka moron
1. The authority of the law is derived from the bits of liberty every citizen renounces to the state.

There IS no liberty without law. I give you 3 examples of what would be permissable w/o law:

rape
theft
murder

Try and achieve 'liberty' without law. Now try to implement law without 'the state'. It is not 'liberty' we renounce to the authority of the state, unless you consider rape/theft/murder to be activities humans should have the 'liberty' to commit.

The law and the authority of the state that implements the law are in place in order so that we all may achieve the greatest liberty possible.

To be free of rape/theft/murder, etc.
I'll leave clean water for another post.


Pamela,

Be kind to Wermut. It is a culture rationalization.

@joe (hi joe!)
It is a culture rationalization.

Yeah, well, it's also stupid. I'm in no mood for stupid.

Pamela,

No one said it was not stupid. Smart people do stupid things all the time. Need I point out to you the actions of what appears to be a majority of your fellow Virginians.

I truly think you must take a more positive attitude about these results. It should be an interesting show. M$M has their team in power now and they are going to have to report on what the home team is doing. That is going to be hard to spin much as they might try.

Besides the demos and the euros and Wermut still can hold out hope for stability in ME and in Iraq. That hope dies only when the trapdoor drops.

Remember the world was safer with Saddam. Iraq was at peace. Stability at all costs.

@joe
Need I point out to you the actions of what appears to be a majority of your fellow Virginians.

Tell me about it. Allen ran one of the dumbest campaigns I've ever seen, and I've seen my share.

But it gets worse. Have you seen this?
HEZBOLLAH JUDGE ELECTED in MICHIGAN

I thank my lucky stars Virginia has a concealed-carry law.

Pamela,

So do we here in GA. Being once from a small town near Roanoke and a classmate of Virgil Goode I tend to follow what is going on in VA with great interest. I use hit on Virgil all the time about being a demo but then again being a Republican in that part of the state was about as rare as seeing a spotted owl. He finally saw the light and did what I thought was the honorable thing – run as an independent and then the next cycle as a Republican.

Allen’s lost opens the door for someone better. I say this because to lose to Webb one really has to try and throw the election. I had the “honor” of meeting Webb when he was SECNAVY in Turkey. He was questionable then and it seems time has only confirmed my assessment. He is a real light weight but in the demo party he could be a raising star.

For me the friends and partners you choose says a lot about you as a person. So Webb has a new set of good buddies – Cerry, Durbin, Kennedy, Byrd, et al. I hope he enjoys them.

The next few years should be interesting. As so much of euroland wanted these results I hope they will be happy with the outcome. As they like big institutions a couple of the ones they hold dear might be on the endangered list.... WTO and NATO. Then there is Gitmo and Iraq. I do like the idea of bring the boys (and girls) home. Who do you think will feel the initial fallout of this decision. I can tell you it will not be Atlanta and probably not france as it is already a combat zone... the "youths" are at it again. The problem is they are so disorganized the french cannot find anyone to surrender too. The french just need to follow the lead of the demos. The demos will find someone I promise you.


@joe
Who do you think will feel the initial fallout of this decision.

The 'neocons'. Replacing Rumsfeld may or may not be a good idea. But replacing him with Gates who: serves with Jim Baker on that Baker/Hamilton board; served under Brent Scowcroft (Condi's mentor), etc. - these are the 'realists' of the GOP.

Anybody who thought of Bush as an ideologue is going to have trouble explaining this one.

[Ah, you're in Georgia. I understand you got to vote on an amendment to your constitution to protect hunting rights. How did that turn out?]

Pamela,
the most eminent thinkers of Enlightenment (some came to your conclusion) would admire your ability to treat such a delicate subject using such simple prose; excellent rebuttal!

Maybe I condendesed the argument too much; but according to Beccaria we (the citizen) agree that there are certain things we should not have the liberty to do (theft, rape, murder etc.), just as you said (but obviously either I had not made the point clear enough or maybe you did not understand it).

I am sorry to have bothered you in your narrow-mindedness, and I am disappointed that the quality of the comments does not reflect the quality of (some) articles on this blog.

@Wermut
Pamela,
the most eminent thinkers of Enlightenment (some came to your conclusion) would admire your ability to treat such a delicate subject

What a hoot. Gimme 'delicate subjects', toy boy.
Sorry. I can sneer with the best of them.

Pamela,
just checked back to read your reaction. Your insults do not bother me, I am not upset to be insulted by a sociopathic anonymous over the internet.

On November 8, Ray D. wrote:

>>We would also like to address the following: American conservatives have clearly been most interested in this site, there can be no denying that. But this site is and should be for everyone and anyone interested in stronger transatlantic ties, because everyone, regardless of party or political leaning, should be concerned about the problem of anti-American prejudice in Germany and around the world.<<

I will continue to read the blog, but the Stammtischniveau on the comments page is too low for me.

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