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Well, they don't call it the "boob tube" for nothing (and I mean that in the American and Canadian use of the term).

yeah, this is nothing compared to ARTE.
Saw a special last night.. America is becoming a fascist state, losing civil liberties, etc.
All the American moonbats were interviewed.. Tim Robbins, etc.
Little or no evidence presented, just interviews with sweeping generalizations.
Don'T get me wrong, I have problems with Guantanmo, Abu Ghraib, the execution of the war in Iraq (I was for it and still am).
but this absolutely floored me..

You shouldnt overestimate this one, its not related to americans only. Whenever foreigners get beaten in eastern germany, our media also knows who is guilty long before the police even started to verfiy the claims.

This can turn out to be very embarrassing, since a boozed italien who claimed to be hurt by fascists was actually proven to had been fallen onto the subway railway himself by sureillance cameras.

So there is no need to pay too much attention to this press hysteria.

@Dave
Oh, come on! Every time the same lame excuses from your side: "Don't worry its not that bad/Don't panic its the same with others". Bullshit! Are you trying to tell me that there are other countries treated with the same bias and stereotypes in the german media than the US? So give me an example.
Show me where the germa media is showing the same kind of criticism when it comes to russia and Cechenia or China and Tibet or France and the whole of Africa...
I am watching the full spectrum of media here in Germany and it is actually frightening and also a shame what is going on here. If there would be an article about americans eating little children in Iraq most of the germans wouldn't even doubt it.

No, Gary, I don't think Dave is saying that. What he's saying is that the German press (particularly ARD and ARTE) treate George Bush (and Ameriks generally) with the same gentle care they give their own native skinheads.

Which is appropriate since the US really are a bunvh of skinheads. From a certain point of view anyway. Noam Chomsky, Gunter Grass, Bethold Brecht, et all. And their successors.....

So I'm keeping my opinions about Haditha to myself until I get more info. However, I did note John Murtha's hysterical, over-the-top performance on GMA (U.S. morning television program) yesterday. My experience is that when leftists go that far out of their way to try to make a point, it's usually because they know that the facts don't support their position. But we'll see.

ARD already changed it from "murdered" to "killed". Seems they read this blog....

Demonize Americans and feel less guilty about starting (yet another) war that killed millions. The mind is wonderfully resourceful, nich wahr?

Jim, lighten up, our media is the same way, what war did they start? WWII is over and done with, the only time it should be brought up, is if there is a direct correlation with something current. The problem with the German media is the same one found in the rest of the world. They're jerks.

Demonizing "Bad America", but not a word about doing business with the Sudan and the perpetrators of a 10 year genozid there. By pointing to others "misdeeds", they feel free to ignore their own support of mass killers, in Iraq and now also in Sudan and feel smug about their own moral superiority.

"The problem with the German media is the same one found in the rest of the world. They're jerks."

@Mike

That's putting it nicely. As a group in general, with a few exceptions, I prefer lazy, ignorant, vacuous, arrogant, elitist and incompetent twits (but good in the art of sophistry) as a description of journalists

Don, cut and paste your answer into my comment. We'll go with it. Although I might add obstreperous to the litany.

Mike,

This century is very young.

In the last one, Germany managed to start two world wars with the results of over 77 million deaths.

That is a historical fact.

What you want us to believe is that somehow the Germans have learned something from history. By their M$M it would appear they have not.

Of course, I realize there are always many sets of facts.

Ok Joe, I was trying to keep a civil conversation going but I guess we need to get into it. So here goes, my bona fides, grew up in a Marine Corps family, joined the Navy Reserve at 16, went active at 17 for two years in 'Nam, enlisted in the Marine Corps at 27 for eight years. With total reserve time (good time (that's when you have 60 points in a year)) I have approx. 24 years. Now who's facts are you insinuating that I'm going by? The age is 60, in case you're interested. The point is if you want to dump with everything that you can come up with, you'll never find anything beyond screaming and you can destroy any thought of dialog. If that's where you want to be, why are you here? You'll pardon my anger but my Marine Corps is under assault, and it's not by the Germans, it's by their countrymen.

Gee Mike,

Did you have fun?

Is that wit?

Mike,

Actually it was a question.

Then the answer is that I enjoyed the experience but I didn't have fun. I saw it as an obligation, one that would afford me the freedom that I desired in life. I still see it as an obligation even though I can no longer participate in carrying the idea forward. I disagree with anyone who can't invest an effort to secure their own freedom.

Mike,

That is a bit sad you did not find it fun. My experience it seems was a bit different. Then I never viewed it as an obligation but as an honor.

Actually Joe, the feeling of satisfaction was enough. You have to remember that the beginning of my service was at the beginning of Vietnam. I got the full brunt of the feeling that America had for the military before I entered the Marine Corps. I went active in the Navy in 1965 and got out in 1967. The Marine Corps service started in 1973 which was still Vietnam era.

I think on the honor point that we're looking at the same thing from two perspectives. An obligation can be honorable in terms of achievement, but it's something that you have to do. The people who are over there are making sure that the measure of their women is not one half or one quarter of the worth of their conquerors. They're making sure that there are no conquerors.

Are we losing by fighting a PC war?

http://funwithhandgrenades.blogspot.com/2006/05/wild-bill-part-two.html

@joe,

What you want us to believe is that somehow the Germans have learned something from history. By their M$M it would appear they have not.

I think the Germans have learned from their experiences in some sense. But that isn't what matters. What matters is whether they have the ability to start another war. The answer clearly is: not flamin' likely! In 1900 Germany was arguably the most powerful nation on the planet. Now? It's not remotely close to it and there is no way they will catch up. The superpowers of the 22st century will be the US, China, India, and possibly Brazil and South Africa. If the EU ever gets it stuff together and organizes they could join the club. But the Brits, French, Italians, Spanish, Polish, etc will have their say in anything the Germans decide to to.

So the lessons Germany has or hasn't learned matter a lot less than they once did....

We have a real media "friend" in ol' England.

Michelle Malkin has the story.

Papa Ray

The argument that Germany (and Europe) speaks with such moral authority and clarity because it has "learned from the past" has always given me a rash and stomach cramps. Restated, it contends that Germany is so good because it used to be so bad. Therefor, a nation increases in virtue by the degree of its evil practices, a reductio ad absurdum.

A related argument is that America and Israel must be held to higher standards than their enemies because they claim to be trying to be good; their enemies make no such claims, and thus any enormity can be excused, even encouraged.

In this case, we have already established that 15 civilians died. The first official report indicated that they were killed by a bomb blast; the death certificates list gunshot wounds as the cause of death. Eyewitness reports claim deliberate shooting. No investigation had been undertaken before the account of the massacre reached the newspaper. The bodies have been exhumed and autopsies are being conducted. If warranted, the military will prosecute the Marines (not soldiers) involved. Military law provides for the (barbaric) death penalty for murder.

If the investigation and prosecution of war crimes committed by ones own military is indication of complete moral corruption, perhaps we can regain our moral authority the way Europe, Islamists, and the Palestinians did it: massacre more civilians, and celebrate, not prosecute, the perpetrators. We could start by carpet-bombing Fallujah, Grozny-style, instead of calling down precision strikes on individual buildings sheltering enemy fighters. Then let's get a list of restaurants in Baghdad and formulate a target list.

What happened was disgusting. Its shameless exploitation is also disgusting.

Hello everyone. I've been on vacation for over a week and am just catching up. For what it's worth, I did have access to CNN and believe me, it was all Haditha all the time. And Mitch, the report is 24 civilians killed and the investigation started in February, NOT after the initial media reports. Some of the CNN reports were intriging. One little girl reported on the third iteration of her story that she didn't get up to go to school that day because she knew the bomb was going to go off. Her brother (about 8 or 9 years old) didn't say anything, but someone turned his back to the camera and lifted up his shirt to show what was supposedly a bullet wound. The odd thing was the scar was directly over the kid's spine about 3 inches below his neck. Lucky kid. Not. Another discrepency I noticed is that the US military said all the bodies were taken to the military hospital/morgue by US military personnel. However, the video provided by the Hammarabi Human Rights organization shows bodies from one house being removed by Iraqis in what looks like blankets someone would have in their house. - nothing like shrouds or body bags. Another issue; the mother of a marine (last name is something like 'Barnis' I think) gave an interview saying her son is traumatized because he was told to go in afterwards to 'clean up and take photographs'. In the interview, she doesn't say how much time elapsed between the incident and her son's order, but the video I saw there had certainly been no cleanup and if there was anything untoward or a coverup, why would he be given orders to take photos? Also, she claimed her son was not being given the care he needed to deal with the resulting trauma. Now, I've been around military all my life, quite a few family members were career. If I know anything, I know no one in active combat zones who has command responsibilities would leave a mentally damaged soldier in place and/or without care. That soldier is a threat to the unit.

So, that's my commentary on the reports. Certainly lots of questions.

And David and Ray, I see you had the utter lack of grace to have a birthday party without me. Well, pooh on you! And many happy returns! I can barely remember what life was like before you guys.....

People, what is this place?
Its true that the german media is going absolutely bonkers, some things i agree with, but most of them i do not. But a lot of you are a blaming the germans themselves, and this is where you are sounding completely racist and still treating them like nazis. So snap out of it. SNAP THE HELL OUT OF IT!

One last thing to say, its you guys who are acting like the fucking nazis.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,355605,00.html

and please remember that the media does not represent a god damn country.
oh yeah, and btw, im english!

While the reports are disturbing, I think the fact that permission to perform forensic analysis/investigations of the bodies was *denied* speaks volumes more than an entire gaggle of nine-year-olds. What is the world coming to when a photo of a body with a bullet wound (taken days after the alleged shooting) and someone (who happens to have declaired himself sworn enemy) pointing 'he did it' is suddenly viewed as solid evidence in a court of law? Kangaroo court is now in session it seems… Popcorn will be served during the Schauprozess. Please turn off all cellphones during the proceedings. Danke.

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