Gerhard and Joschka - Not So Bad After All?

Hey, this is almost too good to be true:

German spies helped U.S. in Iraq war

German spies in Baghdad helped U.S. warplanes strike at least one target during the 2003 Iraq war despite Berlin's statements it was not involved in the conflict, German media reported on Thursday.

The Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper and NDR television said two agents of Germany's BND foreign intelligence agency remained in Iraq throughout the war, supplying U.S. counterparts with information.

"They gave us direct support. They gave us information for targeting," NDR quoted a former U.S. military official as saying in a preview of a programme to be broadcast later on Thursday. (German report) (For pre-strike and post-strike pics of Mansur on April 7, 2003, check here)

Of course, it is quite unlikely that chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and foreign minister Joschka Fischer didn't know of  the BND support for the U.S. Will we now see "Schroeder lied" or "Fischer lied" campaigns in the German media?

Anyway - good job, Gerhard and Joschka!

I suggest a heartfelt "thank you" from President Bush for German chancellor Merkel during her visit this week for the German guidance of American precision bombs in Iraq...

Good old German war qualities are always in demand!

(Hat tip Kevin)

Update: More on the topic...

Comments

[Oh Eric!]

Bush does thank the Germans for their help, repeatedly. No matter how infrequent, and in the big scheme of things, trivial. What I find sad is that a country which could be at the forefront of progress in the world today, chooses instead to draw the wrong lessons from history: appeasement of your enemies and attributing their own faults to those who should be their friends.

But I could be wrong. Maybe another strongly worded letter will keep the nutjobs in Iran from using nukes if they manage to get one.

[joe]

Interesting about the timing of this release of this bit of information. Could it have anything to do with The Frau’s visit with the POTUS?

Equally it now seems the actions described are being refuted by Germany's foreign intelligence agency.

Oh what a clever web Germany weaves.

What are we to make of all of this now?

I am waiting to see what Old Martin has to say about this. I am sure FransZ is too.

Old Martin is the definitive source of accurate information for the Germany government.

[Pamela]

@joe
>>Could it have anything to do with The Frau’s visit with the POTUS?

Gee, ya think?

Actually, Germany's equivalent of special forces have been killed in Iraq. I'm fairly certain I posted a link about it here. Must go look.

[joe]

Pamela,

Are you refering to the two German GSG 9 men that died near Fallujah.?

The GSG 9 is in charge of security for personell and property of the German embassy. Their convoy was aparently mistaken for an US convoy and attacked.

Do you want to give them credit for combat operations in Iraq?

[Pamela]

Well, my dotage is impending. It was on the thread about the Schwanitz campaing poster using American caskets. I cited Germans killed in Afghanistan, not Iraq.
No, it was Afghanistan not Iraq

@joe, obviously, I was not referring to the GSG 9. Give them credit for combat ops in Iraq? No. But I'll give them credit for dying in the service of their country.

[joe]

Pamela,

No question about getting credit for dying for their country.

I would think this would hold true for any national employee of any nation who died from whatever cause in the active serivce of his/her nation.

[Cousin Dave]

If these things did happen, then I rather tend to think that Schroeder and Fischer didn't know about, at least not beforehand. Actually, given all the news that we've heard about German intelligence agents over the past two weeks, I'm starting to get the impression that Germany's intelligence apparatus is even more out-of-control than the American CIA is (and that's pretty bad). Are German agents simply being left to pursue their own personal agendas, with no control at all from Berlin?

[Tyranno]

I read this as a potential sign of cynical and self-serving political repositioning.
The liberation, the voting, the new Constitution, the obviousness of the leftistEuro lie of this alleged "insurgency," that is rightfully seen as killing the Iraqi future ~ not killing the Americans "occupiers" . . .
Iraq is succeeding (without German help!) and now they figure they better get onboard that train to be able to provide themselves some cover for being on the wrong side of history again.
And in that inimitable European fashion, now they announce that, "Well, yeah the American led coalition did some stuff, but you know Germany had two spies in there and well...."
... as if that were some sort of pivotal piece of the Iraqi success story.
Nevertheless and motives aside, if it is true their assistance will of course be welcome. Can the masters of cynicism be far behind? (Who has got chirac's cell phone number?)

Tyranno

[grlzjustwant2havefun]

This one's for you, Imbecilia:

Via Bros. Judd:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/bfcf83e6-838d-11da-9017-0000779e2340.html

Europe’s record on innovation ‘50 years behind US’
By Tobias Buck in Brussels

The European Union’s record on innovation is so poor that it would take more than 50 years to catch up with the US, according to a survey presented by the European Commission on Thursday....

---

Uhhh, I think the 2010 target date will be pushed back.

[kcom]

This article about German drug companies might cover similar territory. (I haven't had a chance to read the one linked above to find out.)

http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=011106C

[FranzisM]

@joe - Martin Jäger basically confirmed what Cousin Dave said, the German government knew of these activities but did not have control of them. It all depends what the meaning of the word operational is. I suposse the German foreign ministry spokespeople are a bit like the American mainstream media: Just like in the case of the Killian documents you never get to know anything more than fake but accurate, unless you start to trust your own bypass of these sources.

So the German equivalent of the Wead tapes was not a Stasi file but a BND one... a rather little difference anyways for the Hisb'allah contacts absorbed post-reunification. This is starting to look like the CIA and its leak of the renditions - when the BND learned that its efforts to run a shadow foreign policy have reached a dead end, it leaks just these of the shadow activities most suitable to feed the anti-Western frenzy at the base. If the analogy to the CIA can be taken that far this might even have been the BND's last such PR shot.

I wouldn't be surprised anymore if the BND has made up its own equivalent of the Killian documents on the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction programs to be fed to friendly services. Just like Bill Burkett in the Bush reelection, if you know that you cannot stop it anymore, start building a foundation for your retroactive claim that it had been based on lies in the first place.

[FranzisM]

Spiegel Online has an interview with the Panorama journalist who broke the BND story. Stephan Wels is saying he believed his anonymous informant to be a Pentagon official because the man knew a lot about the BND. Is it enough to be a BND insider to play a renegade DIA agent to a Panorama journalist?