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I think Paristan is better.

How about the French Kush ?

Remember, Germans have enormous experience in separating things. Does "Men to the right, women and children to the left." ring a bell?

Sign at a shower stall, am I correct, Jim?

Separating garbage is serious business in Germany indeed. I really wonder how many Katrinas it will take until Americans also realize that protecting the environment actually is a good thing.

@ Dan Kauffman + PacRim Jim

With due respect gentlemen , but I consider those kinds of remarks , hurled at 3 post war generations, a bit of a low blow.


“Does anyone believe the region would be better off if Saddam were in power, using oil revenue to purchase political support?”

This he did , after he was declawed. The more salient question however should have been , 'if the region would have been better off':

• with Saddam unabatedly pursuing his ABC WMD programme ;
• with Saddam unabatedly pursuing his mid range rocket programme ;
• wich would have cast his ability to intimidate smack into central EU ;
• with Saddam's unabated ability to stick his ABC WMD in rocket war heads ;
• with Saddam’s successors , those certified crazy son's unfettered access to ABC WMD cum rockets?

And do you really think , knee shaking Euro-appeaseniks would have held any sway over wannabe Nebukadnezars ? .... Thanx GWB ! ... Heinz

@Alan: Looks like you have bought the scientifically-flawed line of the Ecofascists, Trittin & Co without critical analysis. I recommend you have a look at Junk Science... they have a good explanation of the myth of global warming and climate change. I know, it is much easier to accept their explanation, because then you can blame it on Bush. Nothing is newsworthy unless you can make the blame Bush connection.
Bottom line: I also support recycling, and I do it. But American behaviour has nothing to do with our climate. A single sun spot, a single large volcanic eruption, or a single large comet passing too close to Earth has more of an effect on our weather than all human activity combined. And that is a fact.
I guess the Ecofascists and their lawyers better start litigating against volcanos.

@Scout

Yeah, back in the days people probably talked about the myth of the Earth being a sphere. After all it's really easy to dismiss science if you're not smart enough to understand it.

@Alan: Oh, make no mistake. I understand it. Very well. I also understand the motives behind the so-called sources that you would likely quote. Do you?
On the other hand, if you wish to deny the facts ... such as those just mentioned with volcanos or sun spots ... then I would say you are the one who is not smart enough to understand science. By this I mean actual science, and not the filtered hype that's sold to the public with a science label on it which you apparently have accepted without further thought.
In no way do I support carelessness with the environment. I believe we have a responsibility to treat what God has entrusted to us with the appropriate respect and humility. However, it is typical secular-humanist arrogance to believe that we puny humans can have such a large effect.
I like science. I support it. That's why I can't support the global warming myth.

@ alan shore,
You may want to read among others this new Swiss report, interesting.
Global Climate: Study Confirms (and Reduces Potential Impact of) Water Vapor Feedback Process

Posted by cogitator
On News/Activism 03/16/2004 2:20:53 PM PST · 42 replies · 259+ views

Science Daily ^ | March 16, 2004
Satellite Finds Warming 'Relative' To HumidityA NASA-funded study found some climate models might be overestimating the amount of water vapor entering the atmosphere as the Earth warms. Since water vapor is the most important heat-trapping greenhouse gas in our atmosphere, some climate forecasts may be overestimating future temperature increases. (go to linked article for schematic diagram) In response to human emissions of greenhouse gases, like carbon dioxide, the Earth warms, more water evaporates from the ocean, and the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere increases. Since water vapor is also a greenhouse gas, this leads to a further increase...

The German media is GUILTY of portraying America as doing absolutely nothing against pollution. That is totally wrong.
Facts: The second highest expense in American business are ecology costs. The US started years ahead of Europe regulating emissions. Example. The US mandated Catalytic converters 20 years earlier than Germany. Just because we don't want to be a party to this money laundering scheme called KYOTO, we are demonized. Even the German Government is considering a departure from Kyoto now because of the enormeous costs involved, without being able to control the ecology to a manageable degree.
Just imagine, if was proven that the Sun activity had the major impact on our climate, would the Ecosteuer be removed? In your wildest dreams.
Always follow the money, it will always show you the truth. Governments are not excempt from fraud, even if they promote it on a daily basis "Goebbels style".

In fact, the earth is not a sphere. It's an oblate spheroid.

@PacRim Jim

Smartass.

@Scout

How am I supposed to have a serious conversation with you if you dismiss all scientific reports that are contrary to your beliefs? Instead you embrace reports like the one americanbychoice quotes which uses words like "may" and "might". You then take such report and claim their findings as being "facts" without questioning their "motives behind the so-called sources" as you like to call it. Do you seriously believe that blowing millions and millions of tons of carbon dioxide in the air every year has no effect and is right and God is not going to care? It's not right and that's why I don't think this Hermann dude has a right to make fun of Germans who care about their environment.

Just as YOU are dismissing all scientific reports that are contrary to YOUR beliefs.

If greenhouse gasses are the one and only cause of global warming, why is there global warming on Mars and Jupiter? ... and how does the fact that the SUN ITSELF is getting warmer NOT fit in? And this isn't particularly new information. We've known about the Mars warming since 2001. The warming on Jupiter was discovered last year, and the warming sun announced this year after 20 years of tracking solar activity.

You griped about sources? Personally, I regard NASA and UCBerkeley as pretty good sources.

98% of the problems environmentalists are running into today is that they are too busy talking to each other and are ignoring astronomers, who have a completely different theory about what's causing the warming.

@Alan Shore

I really wonder if you have any honest experience in Germany. On the surface, I see Germans separating garbage and throwing glass into appropriate recycling containters. However, it has even been reported here in the German media that often this obsesively separated material is thrown away together into landfills. Never to be recycled. It would appear that the many coloured containers are a feel-good solution only.

Additionally, if Germany were so eco friendly, why was it only less than 10 years since Germany did away with leaded gasoline? Only recently started a can and bottle recycling program? Continues to build and de facto encourage the usage of diesel engines over less poluting and harmful gasoline engines?

Oh no, we've done such a good job of increasing the global temperature that it's bled over to Mars and Neptune. If they're heating up then it's too late for us. Woe is me, woe is me. Ref NASA

BTW, James, as a truck driver I was used to having mechanics close the garage door while working on a running engine. These same mechanics would rip someone apart if the door were closed while they had a gas engine running. Diesel puts out carbon particles which look bad but are reclaimed by natural processes, much in the same manner as the ashes from forest fires. There is an amount of carbon monoxide but not a life threatening amount. I would classify gasoline as the more dangerous form of energy generation.

BTW Mike H,

Particulate Matter: Diesel exhaust is a major source of fine particles. Under the same engine and load conditions, diesel engines emit 100 times more particles than gasoline engines. Roughly 80 percent to 95 percent of diesel PM mass is finer than 1 micron in diameter. These finer particles are small enough to evade respiratory defense mechanisms and lodge deeply within lungs. Numerous studies have found links between fine PM and a wide variety of health problems, including increased asthma hospitalizations and emergencies, chronic bronchitis, pneumonia, heart disease, and even premature death.

http://www.dc.sierraclub.org/cleanbus/nrdc.htm

@LC Mamapajamas & Co.

Where did I say that "greenhouse gasses are the one and only cause of global warming"? But since you're so fond of the living conditions on Mars and Jupiter why don't you ask your beloved NASA to fly you over there once we've completely fucked up our Earth. Apparently (according to your astronomers) living conditions on Mars and Jupiter are easily comparable to Earth. Just like I trust my dentist most when it comes to heart surgery.

What I'm getting from all of you is a lot of mixed messages. One says there is no such thing as global warming but still we should recycle. Others say there is global warming but it's not human made rather caused by a warming sun(!) and volcanos. And yet others quote urban legends such as German recycling material being dumped anyway. (Let me tell you my fried, we've had Pfandflaschen all my life in Germany. 10 years ago you say? Well isn't that amazing considering that Red-Green won for the first time only seven years ago?)

What I don't understand is why anyone would defend polluting our environment. Wouldn't it be a good idea to stop doing it if there is the slightest chance that it might come to haunt us? Wouldn't it make sense to recycle simply because we might run out of ressources one day? Why are you fighting it so much? What is wrong with protecting the environment?

There is nothing wrong with protecting the environment. There is everything wrong spending money on it incautiously. The cost of Kyoto compliance will go over $1T. The people in poorer economies who don't have jobs, the people who don't get medicines because they haven't been invented, and the people who can't grow efficient crops because the EU has unscientific phobias about GM foods might all object to the way we use our resources.

The values of Western Civilization are far more endangered than the environment. If I had a choice between a clean earth living under barbarians, and a dirty earth living in freedom -- no contest.

In fact, the earth is not an oblate spheroid. It's more pear shaped. :p

@Alan: Mixed messages?? "One says there is no such thing as global warming but still we should recycle." What's mixed? What's the inconsistency? I recycle because I realise all this rubbish needs to go somewhere (landfills, dumped in the ocean, burned) and I think less of that is better. So what? Of course, we're already being taxed even to recycle (grüne Punkt) and as Americanbychoice said, those "taxes" will never go away. Follow the money.
That doesn't mean I have to buy the fictional hysteria of global warming... nor do I even need to accept the common unproven assumption among the ecofascists that carbon dioxide is harming the environment. On the other hand, they assume a lot of things that just aren't true. That movement is filled with pseudo-righteous people supporting the wrong things for the wrong reasons. Kyoto is just one of many examples.
Nowhere have I indicated that I "defend polluting the environment," to use your words, so don't put those words in my mouth.
Speaking of mouth, you need to clean up yours.

I cannot let misinformation stand. The earth has an oblate spheroid shape. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth

@Alan Shore,

(Let me tell you my fried, we've had Pfandflaschen all my life in Germany. 10 years ago you say? Well isn't that amazing considering that Red-Green won for the first time only seven years ago?)

You're getting completely spun around here, you're not even addressing the points accurately.

Pfandflaschen? I guess the key word is "flaschen" because up until the rather recent convienient 25 cent return-only-to-seller Grün law was put into place, "dozen" or "cans" were never recycled. My home state of Massachusetts has had it in place for donkeys years as have many states if not all in the USA.

Yes, only 10 years (actullay 7 years) since Germany finally did away with leaded gasoline.

No one here is saying that the environment isn't our only and most precious resource, something that I think Germany on the whole as well as America take seriously. Countries like Russia, China and India and the rest of the 3rd world, however, I think are more a growing concern - IMHO.

However, as I have demonstrated, Germany isn't necessarily concerned about the health considerations when it comes to only satisfying CO2 production. Leaded gasonline, diesel engines and late recycling programs are only a few examples. Don't bullshit me about "we've had this all my life" - I've lived in GY for 11 years now - pfandflaschen were limited to only certain bottlers.

Get that "Germany is adhearing magnificantly to the Kyoto accord" - moral superiority so common in modern Germany chip off your shoulder. Instead favoring arms sales to polluting, bellicose, human rights abusing China.

Suggested reading about Germany's usage of leaded gasoline, Germany only banned it's sale in 1998. Which struck me rather strange when I went to the pump in GY in 1995, Massachusetts had banned it in the 1980s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline
http://sea.helcom.fi/dps/docs/documents/Land-based%20Pollution%20Group%20(HELCOM%20LAND)/LAND%207/7-13%20LCreport%20on%20leaded%20gasoline.pdf

A n d e r e s T h e m a


Mein Mitgefühl geht an die Familie des toten Soldaten. -

"Nach dem tödlichen Anschlag auf die Bundeswehr sollen Soldaten der Isaf Augenzeugen zufolge das Feuer auf ein Auto mit Kindern eröffnet haben. Die Augenzeugen berichteten, der Wagen habe trotz Aufforderung der Soldaten nicht angehalten."
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,384833,00.html


Jetzt fängt das auch noch an. Muß man von Zeugenaussagen berichten, bevor die Armee eine Stellungnahme abgegeben hat?! Das hat man so gerne mit der US-Armee gemacht, jetzt trifft diese nicht nur dämliche, sondern auch gefährliche Art der Berichterstattung auch Soldaten der ISAF. Mal sehen, wieviele deutsche Medien das aufgreifen.

"Does anyone believe the region would be better off if Saddam were in power, using oil revenue to purchase political support?"
Emphatic YES! McCain have no idea what the failed state is like, and bushies left that failed state at Israeli border!

Danny
http://www.SamsonBlinded.org

@Danny

Which state at the Israeli border has failed? Lebanon, Syria, Jordan or Egypt? And if Syria is your answer, what do the "Bushies" have to do with it?

@Scout

What's an "ecofascists"? Can you name a few people you would call that and explain to me what makes them fascists?

On the other hand, they assume a lot of things that just aren't true. That movement is filled with pseudo-righteous people supporting the wrong things for the wrong reasons.

That sounds like a perfect description of a very powerful man in Washington DC and his cronies.

@James
if not all in the USA
??? The only state I know who recycles cans is California. And you have to drive to some place known to very few people. Stores don't take back cans.

until the rather recent convienient 25 cent return-only-to-seller Grün law was put into place
This law was put in place by Angela Merkel - now soon to be Chancellor - a long time ago when she still was minister under Kohl. It only took effect rather recently because the recycling rate had dropped below some arbitrary but high number. So who is bullshitting here?

@ Alan
Everyone believes that curbing the warming trend is very important. We have had this before on mother earth. The Arctic used to be covered by forest, The middle ages have been the hottest period on record. I guess too many horses and cows flatulating?
Every coin has two sides, to damn the other side for it's existance is plain stupid. According to you all people who try to look at both sides are "Pseudo=righteous people supporting the wrong things for the wrong reasons"?
I would then have to include you in that group, just on the opposite side. Before blaming someone for their view that is different from yours, arm yourself with more facts please. According to you the "Fact" that the sun has been more active in recent years has nothing to do with the temperature rising? A slight shift in the poles is not possible, etc ?
Apparently, the only thing that will save our Earth is recycling and stopping car emissions?
By the way, did you know that the US car fleet is using less Gas on average than the German car fleet? Stop building those gas guzzlers and stop importing them to us, that may help.

Alan, again please do some research into US recycling. While each state has it's own laws, California is not the only state using "Pfand". Many states do that.
I live in Florida, while we have countless recycling bins, my Garbage company picks up twice a week and they make seperate trips each time, one for recycled items and one for regular garbage at my doorstep. Horrors, I have to pay $ 10 per month for that service.
By the way, only new technology will help us on the way to better protect our environment, an area Germany can't afford to participate judging by her lack of funds flowing into research. It is not the money changing KYOTO scheme that will save the world. Do you want to take bets on when Germany runs out of money and asks to be removed from participating countries?

@americanbychoice

According to you all people who try to look at both sides are "Pseudo=righteous people supporting the wrong things for the wrong reasons"?

First of all I was not the one who came up with that quote and second of all I was certainly not referring to someone who likes to "look at both sides". I was referring to a movement that likes to start wars for fictitious reasons. "You're either with us or against us" is not what I would call "looking at both sides".

Apparently, the only thing that will save our Earth is recycling and stopping car emissions?

No it's not. But it's a good start. Why not try it?

By the way, did you know that the US car fleet is using less Gas on average than the German car fleet?

I'm driving an imported car that gets 40 mpg. Most American cars get half of that.

California is not the only state using "Pfand". Many states do that.

Really, which ones? Certainly not all of them as James was claiming (I live in one of them and therefore I would know). And in which of these states to the stores take back the cans rather than some strange organization.

@ Alan,
I tried to find someone elses reference to Pseudo-righteous people. I can only find yours.
Regarding two sides, With us on one, against us on the flip side. This is not a good argument at this point, you would have to start a new blog to adress that one.

"Apparently, the only thing that will save our Earth is recycling and stopping car emissions?
No it's not. But it's a good start. Why not try it"?

America started the action against pollution many years prior to Germany. We spend more money on it than anyone else. However, the Media portrays us as doing nothing at all. That is simply ignoring the facts in order to demonize the "ugly" USA. You have to decide whether or not you can accept the facts or just the hyperbole. It seems that everything this country does is wrong and inferior. You seem to be the kind of person Germany would love to have back in their country to give "expert testimony" to the MSM.

FACT: The US car fleet has a lower gas consumption than the German car fleet. Most German cars on the road there would not even be registered in States like CAL. or NY without modifications. Even though I drive Japanese cars with good gas mileage, I really don't care what you drive, it's your business. I see in SPON already articles demonizing the Hybrid concept just because Germany fell asleep and didn't pursue this technology. We must blame someone else, never the good, moral Germans. Give me a break.
Get a Beer bottle and "read" the labels, it tells you where you get what.
Have you ever seen Shopping carts full of cans that people are collecting for money. Not perfect, it works though.

I cannot let misinformation stand. The earth has a pear shape. See Relativity of Wrong.

There's more that connects these three pieces of news than it seems at the first glance.

The phenomenon of "Paristine" i.e. the formation of temporary autonomous zones that drop out of the control of the gewaltmonopol of the state for a certain time is not something alien to the environmentalists. Exactly the opposite, it is something in which the Green party and the Kyoto ideology has its deepest roots. Party co-leader Renate Künast even mentioned her citizenship to the Republik Freies Wendland in her now-deleted biography on the website of the federal government. (Though, Gerhard Schröder is less vocal about his role as the Young Socialist's ambassador to the Environmentalist entity.)

The Republik Freies Wendland was a "Paristine" experiment pioneering in 1980 on a site that was being developed for the disposal of nuclear waste, but other than the French "Paristines" of these days it was all very ordentlich with tollgates and formal citizenship and printed passports. However, just like the current exclaves of caliphate it was a would-be theocracy, i.e. the applicants for the passport were required to sign a statement wrapped in lots of pacifist Zen, which demanded the state to "guarantee the integrity of the soul of its humans", i.e. to take the place of the church (full wording in German linked above).

Thanks God the place of the David Koresh, the supreme soulcatcher of the Environmentalist entity remained vacant, the Green project never achieved its desired "rendezvous with history." But unlike the French al-Zarqawi cultists the environmentalists had a point: Nuclear waste is the closest thing to eternity on Earth, so its disposal would best be administrated (and taxed!) by the highest level of central government (which is the second-closest Earthly thing to eternity). It would be dumb as a compost pile to chose a storage site for something as permanent as nuclear waste only because the region was in the shadow of a temporary political construct such as the iron curtain, and yet this is exactly the political environment from which the Republik Freies Wendland was born.

Americans have Harry "Yucca Mountain" Reid, Germans have the political legacy of the Republik Freies Wendland experiment. The nuclear waste is kept in the above-ground queue, and the foul compromises between not building new plants and not shutting down existing plants push up the average age of the equipment and increase the overall risk instead of decreasing it. Here's where the thinking about waste and how to safely deal with it should actually begin, but somehow the environmentalists seem mentally stuck in the beautiful green marchlands of Mesopotamia where nothing matters more than what to feed to the plastic shredders. Otherwise they would realize that the point is not to ask where are the weapons of mass destruction but where shall they finally go.

Has anyone noticed that the term "global warming" is an oxymoron? With the planet lacking bulkheads, climate by definition is a global phenomenon no matter whether it is stable or goes up or down. This term is a grammatical fallacy implying that Earthly climate somehow was not anarchic by nature, just as if there had been no iceages. The environmentalist dream of a technology that can tame the atmosphere and navigate hurricanes is just like the Renaissance's dream of flying: It will be fulfilled by anything but some lengthy international treaty.

@Alan:

"Wouldn't it be a good idea to stop doing it if there is the slightest chance that it might come to haunt us?"

Well, besides the global warming argument itself (which I contend has become a matter of faith, not science, to the pro-warming advocates), there is the issue of risk aversion. With every breath you take, you breathe out carbon dioxide, which according to your arguments contributes to global warming. Your breath could be the thing that tips the balance. The odds are small, but non-zero. By your own logic, the ethical thing for you to do is immediately go commit suicide.

@American by Choice

"Stop building those gas guzzlers and stop importing them to us, that may help."

You got your wish!

VW is no longer importing its "big seller" in the US: The Phaeton. Only 600 were sold last year. (See the SPON article.) The Phaeton was supposed to be VWs attempt to build a S class Mercedes. It was offered with a V-8, V-10 and a V-12 engine.

Alan: "??? The only state I know who recycles cans is California. And you have to drive to some place known to very few people. Stores don't take back cans."

Uh... what planet do you live on????

Every city in the frikkin country has its own recycling system!!!

The fact that most of us recycle VOLUNTARILY instead of having draconian laws like California speaks to committment to the idea.

@FranzisM: "But unlike the French al-Zarqawi cultists the environmentalists had a point: Nuclear waste is the closest thing to eternity on Earth, so its disposal would best be administrated (and taxed!) by the highest level of central government (which is the second-closest Earthly thing to eternity)"

Very true. But I have a completely different outlook on nuclear "waste". An energy source with a radioactive half-life measured in the thousands of years? This isn't "waste", it's an answer waiting for someone smart enough to ask the right questions.

In the meantime, it needs to be safely stored, preserved for possible future use. And you're right that it should be handled by a central knowledgeable authority so that it doesn't leak and create a hazard.

@Alan: "One says there is no such thing as global warming but still we should recycle. Others say there is global warming but it's not human made rather caused by a warming sun(!) and volcanos."

So you don't believe that solar flares pouring billions of tons of superheated matter into our upper atmosphere could ever possibly be causing global warming???? When it's affecting the climate as far away as Mars?

How can it NOT be affecting our climate?

This is a fact: Excessive solar activity can be seen easily by the numbers of sunspots. No one is certain of the relationship except that sunspots show surface activity, but sunspots are also accompanied by massive flaring.

Historians record the Medieval Warm Period as the longest extended period of warm weather on record. This was the period when the Norsemen were doing their long-range exploring "because of the good weather"(ie: they weren't concerned about being locked out of their home ports by winter ice). It was also a period of bumper crops, and an entire wine industry in Scotland from grape varieties that presently only grow in Mediterranean area. Forests were rich and full of game, food was abundant.

Astronomers, such as they were at the time, recorded the Medieval Maximum. This was an extended period when record numbers of sunspots were recorded. We can safely presume that this visible solar activity was accompanied by the massive flaring that is always seen when sunspots are prominent.

Only recently was it discovered that the Medieval Warm Period the historians recorded and the Medieval Maximum the astronomers recorded were one and the same period.

And we're seeing it happen again. We have been tracking an unprecidented number of sunspots... and in more recent years, the accompanying solar flares... for some time now. This has been a major bane on our satellite communications industry. When solar activity goes into its normal 11-year drop to its minimum, it is NOT dropping to the levels of the prior minimum. Each cycle has more and more activity to show, each maximum more activity than the previous.

In fact, it appears to be repeating the pattern that was recorded during the Medieval Maximum. The only difference is in the numbers of sunspots recorded, and we may be seeing more of them today simply because we CAN see them more clearly through instrumentation.

Can we do anything about it? No.

Am I worried about it? When the Norwegians no longer need icebreakers to clear their ports in the dead of winter, I'll start thinking about it. Until then, a warming cycle that we KNOW about has historically shown to be a BENIGN period.

What we are looking at here is a perfectly NORMAL solar cycle. We've only seen it once before, which is why so many people are panicked about it.

But I seriously doubt there is a problem.

@Alan: "Separating garbage is serious business in Germany indeed. I really wonder how many Katrinas it will take until Americans also realize that protecting the environment actually is a good thing."

America has been protecting the environment for a long time, son. In fact, there is now a study from the Cato Institute which suggests that the US is a carbon sink... that we use more c02 than we produce.

Where would it be used? The US isn't as densely populated as Europe. We still have massive ranges of forest and farmland.

I live in Florida, and we have a very serious air pollution problem here. We have "asthma warning" days where people with respiratory problems must take precautions.

The pollutants? Oak pollen. Pine pollen. Perhaps we should whip out our chainsaws and get rid of those polluting monsters!

The European vision of the US as a smog-choked hell is dead wrong. There are a few large cities with serious smog problems, such as LA and Detroit. But the overwhelming majority of the country has excellent air.

About the smog in L.A. I used to live there in the late 60ies and the smog then was awful. It looked like fog- all day long- the mountains were barely visible and the stuff stung ones eyes. I just visited L.A a few weeks ago and the difference is amazing. L.A might still be the "smog capital" of the US, but compared to the bad old days, there is a huge change.
Two other things: when we moved to Germany in the 70ies, we had to have the catalytic converters on our cars removed, since the leaded gasoline available would have damaged it.
Recycling: there has been voluntary recycling in the US for a long time. Where I live, we reycled way before the laws were enacted in California. I use two bins, which get picked up once every two weeks directly at the house. One is for garden waste which is composted and sold back to the public. I have to pay for that service. The other one, which gets me a reduction on my garbage rates, holds everything else- paper, plastic bottles, cardboard, cans etc. The only thing they don't pick up is glass, which I take to my local firestation to put in their bins there. This has been going on in various forms for a long time-way before there was recycling in Germany. The main reason recycling was instituted in the first place was not so much to "save the environment" as a whole, but to keep all these things out of the landfills. There was a major concern, that the landfills were filling up too fast.

@LC Mamapajamas - "This isn't "waste", it's an answer waiting for someone smart enough to ask the right questions."

Same as all waste - disposal isn't meant to be a funeral but a form of storage.

@FranzisM: "Same as all waste - disposal isn't meant to be a funeral but a form of storage."

I completely agree with this. But then, I guess you haven't heard about the idiots who want us to use the US space program to pack nuclear waste into pods of some sort and launch it into the sun to get rid of it for good...

Oh, they're just FULL of bright ideas...

Are you sure that this is a real proposal, not a science fiction movie script from a fantasy world where spacecraft are safer than power plants?

It's almost as weird as the debate how to label nuclear waste in a way that future archeologists won't get harmed by the curse of the pharao when they discover the forgotten sanctuaries.

Fransiz... Yup, I'm certain that there are fruitcakes out there who want to shoot nuclear waste into the sun. That's a real viewpoint. That's also a pain.

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