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The SPD is only a few (goose) steps behind the democrats in the U.S.A. Where their more civil and progressive political conversation consists of calling Bush ~ Hitler, conservatives ~ the Ku Klux Klan, American soldiers ~ no better than Nazis or the Khmer Rouge . . .

Words have meaning and ideas have consequences. Their promiscuity with some very serious words reveals the personal abuses that they have not had to grow up with, the oppressive regimes they have not had to live under. Rather it reveals the level of privilege they have grown up under that affords them the opportunity to be so frivolous in the face of a serious situation.
Kind of makes you wonder what these coddled little 'progressives' would do if they ever met a real Nazi, Klansman or jihadist on a lonely road or an austere hilltop in the Hindu Kush in the middle of the night? Well, I mean, other than immediately fall to their knees and start articulately fisking themselves over their unfair western advantage, apoligize for their obvious western weakness and break down in tears as the tremble and wet themselves in the face of a real evil.

Tyranno

PS: How do you respond to the hatefilled rantings of a Howard Dean or a Ludwig Stiegler and not step down into their gutter???

Its a little disheartening that there doesn't seem to be much outcry from the honest workers in Germany about the social leeches in its society. That being said I've heard there have been some useful reforms made.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Why doesn't the SPD call LaFontaine (and the so-called "alternative left party") on the carpet for what is truly, clearly right-wing populism? For deliberately trying to provoke by using Nazi clichees like "Fremdarbeiter" and "Schandgesetze"? They remain silent about this kind of derailment but criticize the CDU for something essentially innocuous?

The Zeit article is really quite good:
"Oskar Haider
Die verbalen Ausfälle Lafontaines gegen Ausländer haben Methode. Sie zielen auf Links- und Rechtsaußen"
http://www.zeit.de/2005/26/Spr_9fche

i was finally watching "goodbye,Lenin" the other night and THERE IT WAS!! His Mom the commie was commenting on the neighbors watching western tv and she kept "abbauing"!!

What a great movie. It was funny to see how many people from the East still walked around muttering even after tha wall came down.

I think things in Germany are looking up actually and that the results of the new election and the slow disengagement with the Fischer fools can only unleash more Kaspars!!

"Sozial ist, was Arbeit schafft." - "Social is that which creates work."
(Main slogan in the CSU election campaign in 2005)

"Sozial ist, wer Arbeit schafft." - "Social is the one who creates work."
(Main slogan in the Kampffront Schwarz-Weiß-Rot election campaign in 1933 - this was the party of Hugenberg , one of Hitler's main supporters and the first one to be called "media mogul" - which means that he was owner of the by far largest German media company in the 1920's)

I also think that the equation between the "Arbeit macht frei" sentence and the mentionened quote is going too far. But nonetheless: Isn't it a little odd, that on of the (probably) future governing parties is using an almost direct quote from a party that supported the NSDAP in the 1930's?

Quoting Tyranno: " Words have meaning and ideas have consequences."

Greets
gio

'abbauing'? Does that mean something like 'gabbing'?

Stiegler is an idiot. This little comment in the FAZ hits the nail on the head.

http://www.faz.net/s/Rub7FC5BF30C45B402F96E964EF8CE790E1/Doc~EAA57F213225D4911804EF92EDD69B2AD~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html

Nobody cares about how true Nationalsocialists like myself feel when people like Bush and Sharon or parties like the CUD are compared with our movement. We're sick and tired of it and the day will come when we bring those rotten imbeciles who made those false and misleading comparisons to justice.
Run for your life Ludwig !

@ Robert: Is that some kind of sick irony?

@niko
I knew there was an ami connection in there somewhere, there always is.. they are such a TAETERVOLK!!!!!

I am so sick about the siutation in our society. I found this on Roger Simon's weblog. In German media I read only that the murderer of van Gogh said nothing. This does not sound like NOTHING. this is frightening!!! This is the truth what they try to hide. No danger here, Bush and Blair were wrong, they still go on with this story.


Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh's jihadist killer - 27-year-old Dutch-Moroccan national Mohammed Bouyeri - has dramatically confessed in the Amsterdam court room. Bouyeri elaborated:

"I can assure you that one day, should I be set free, I would do exactly the same, exactly the same," he said, speaking slowly in sometimes halted Dutch.

He said he felt an obligation to Van Gogh's mother Anneke, present in court, to speak, but offered no sympathy.

"I have to admit I do not feel for you, I do not feel your pain, I cannot -- I don't know what it is like to lose a child," he said as Van Gogh's family and friends looked on.

"I cannot feel for you ... because I believe you are an infidel," he added.

@gio

Wow, that´s an interesting coincidence. I guess in this light, the CDU/CSU slogan is a bit unfortunate. I suspect we´ll hear about this quite often yet... Btw, where did you come across the Kampffront slogan?


@Ray

I remember that you were quite quick to accuse Müntefering and the IG Metall of using Nazi diction in reference to the "locusts" and the mosquitos.
Now the CDU/CSU uses a slogan almost identical to that of the Kampffront. Will you jump on them, too, for outrageously using Nazi language?

My point is: comparisons of that kind are stupid. Neither the SPD, nor the IG Metall or the CDU/CSU are in the least suspicable of harboring Nazi ideas. So let´s not cry "wolf" to often.

Fuchur, it's a big difference if you state "Social is that which creates work" or if you run a hatred campaign and compare other people to locusts, while even focusing that on a certain nationality.

Ja Luddscha, da haben wir doch noch einiges in der Kiste. Wie wärs mit:

"Amis sind Untermenschen"
"Amis sind Volksfeinde"
"Amis sind unwertes Leben"
"Unser Ziel ist die Vernichtung aller Amis"

Mist, jetzt finde ich nicht meine signierte Originalausgabe von der grossen Schrift MEINES FÜHRERS.

Huhuhuhuhuhu.

Well, Germany definitely doesn't have a corner on the market for this type of stupidity. If Godwin's Law were an actual law, every Democratic Party national leader in the U.S. would be locked up now.

As for the actual slogan, my German isn't nearly good enough to understand all the shades of meaning. As I follow it, a loose translation into American English diction would be something like, "A good socialism is a socialism which creates jobs" (as opposed to a socialism that leaves 15+ percent of the working-age population unemployed). But I suspect there's a meaning to the word "sozial" or "social" that I'm not catching. A little help please...

@ fuchur:

You write:

"I remember that you were quite quick to accuse Müntefering and the IG Metall of using Nazi diction in reference to the "locusts" and the mosquitos.
Now the CDU/CSU uses a slogan almost identical to that of the Kampffront. Will you jump on them, too, for outrageously using Nazi language?"

I think Alex N. is right. In the case of the CDU/CSU there is no clear parallel other than the fact that the words happen to be somewhat similar. Most governments, whether good or bad, democratic or not, have set the goal of creating jobs and have used slogans like 'we are going to create jobs'.

IG Metall and the SPD on the other hand are using negative slogans to attack and demonize entire groups of people. The messages are not only similar in their diction/syntax to messages from the Third Reich, but also similar in that they are negative attacks on entire classes/races.

@Alex/Ray

Of course I completely agree that the IGM/SPD campaign was bad and stupid. But I think it should have been attacked simply for that reason, and not because of any (IMO far-fetched) Nazi simililarity.


Meanwhile, Stiegler has offered a most sincere apology.
Btw, Statler&Waldorf offer an ingenious explanation for all this: Obviously, there is a competition for the "Social Democrat Twit of the Year" ongoing...

@Ray D.

Can you explain what "other than the fact that the words happen to be somewhat similar" means?

I might be a bit stupid but the two slogans are not only somewhat similar but NEARLY IDENTICAL?

Is my grasp of the English language that bad? Does "somewhat similar" mean "nearly identical"?

So relax, admit that the slogans are identical and that this is somewhat unfortunate.

And then explain, why we should not be alarmed by this parallel.

In this way your arguments might be a tad bit more convincing.

"Sozial ist, was Arbeit schafft." - "Social is that which creates work."
(Main slogan in the CSU election campaign in 2005)

"Sozial ist, wer Arbeit schafft." - "Social is the one who creates work."
(Main slogan in the Kampffront Schwarz-Weiß-Rot election campaign in 1933 - this was the party of Hugenberg , one of Hitler's main supporters and the first one to be called "media mogul" - which means that he was owner of the by far largest German media company in the 1920's)

Whatever the slogan it is silly.

Social do not create jobs. Individual people create jobs.

Government more often than not destory jobs outright or prevent there creation.

This is what is going on in Germany today. So far it would seem none of these slogans address that.

It is a bright future with "no pain"

Trust Us! Vote For (select party of choice)

@David: That doesn't surprise me a bit. I've been trying to make the point for years that American conservatives and the Skeptical Inquirer crowd have much in common, and that the Republican Party should fully embrace the rule of logic and the scientific method. It hasn't done so completely, but the Republicans aren't the one that deem mathematics and the physical laws of the universe to be a "dead-white-men conspiracy".

I saw something a few weeks ago that Oskar Laforntaine had a new far left party and was planning on teaming up with the PDS. Anything new on this?

Oskar first left the SPD and joined the WASG, a left wing protest party against the social reforms of Schröder and then the WASG teamed up with the PDS creating a new party called "Die Linkspartei". In the eastern states it will be PDS - Die Linkspartei, so the old commies are not too confused and find their beloved PDS on the ballot.
Polls see them between 8 and 11 % in a general election, the PDS was around 6 % before Oskar joined them.

Yes, Gabi, I read an article about the Van Gogh case today in a major German newspaper and all it said was that the murderer said nothing. It made him sound almost dignified.

kid charlemagne,
I wonder why almost ALL ignore it what he said. Is there any agreement among or between the media not to frigthen us?

regarding Bouyeri's statement in the van Gogh case:

FAZ has it online

WELT has it online

so Gabi and kid, your comment is simply not true

Well until he killed a euro......he was a freedom fighter.

The (intended) meaning of "Sozial ist, was Arbeit schafft" is this: Conservative, free-market policies are not anti-social or un-social; rather, they create jobs and employment, and THAT is what our society really needs; a vibrant labor market is the best social safety net there is, so to speak.

A good translation would be, "Doing that which will create jobs is the socially responsible thing to do".

It's basically an attempt to reclaim the word social which the Socialists once hijacked.

AS,

That makes a lot more sense even if I am not sure about if the slogan is really ture.

I will admit it sure is a lot better then......."Trust ME"

@ AS and Joe

AS`s translation is correct. They are saying pretty much what Tony Blair said the other week at the EU, namely that a system with vast unemploment and huge tax burdens isnt really socially minded at all.

Interestingly enough when the pollsters ask people in Germany about who they would trust or wish as a leader they always ask for a number of subjects. One of these is always the sozialfrage, where the SPD / Uncle Gerhard always wins. The CDU / CSU is just trying to challenge this I guess with this new slogan.

"Doing that which will create jobs is the socially responsible thing to do".

That is how I see it, also. Assuming that the CDU means bring in deregulation and capitalism to make Germany competitive and create German jobs. A well-paying (but a little insecure) job in a vibrant job market is better than a crap job which is completely secure by law.

There is to my mind no question that the European statefunded TV-outlets are fiercely leftwing biased. They pretend to be neutral and they are not at all neutral.This is not only the case here in Germany, but also in Belgium, Holland, and it is true even for the BBC. The influence of these outlets is huge and so one can say that the Western European population has been brainwashed. But is this the only cause of their pathological hatred of Bush, America, Israel, conservatism etc? Should the things change overhere when there were serious conservative TV-outlets countering this huge, almost insane leftwing bias? How much is the European population itself to blame? Do they perhaps like this cheap moral grandstanding against the US and Israel? Or is it that they have been brainwashed for years and years and now are no longer capable to free themselves of the sway these leftist media hold upon them?

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