Consequences for the German Diplomat from Hell?

(By Ray D.)

Not long ago, we posted on an article entitled, "The German Chair: A tale of torture at the hands of an America-hating diplomat," by Bret Stephens of the Wall Street Journal. According to the author, a relatively senior German diplomat attached to the German Consulate General in New York invited him and his wife to Sunday brunch. The article details Mr. Stephens' account of the harrowing conversation that followed with diplomat "Thomas P.", in which the German official allegedly made the following statements:

• "The gulag was better than Gitmo, since at least the Stalinist system offered its victims a trial of sorts."
• "Civil rights in the U.S. were on a par with those of North Korea and rather behind what they had been in Europe in the Middle Ages."
• "The Wall Street Journal takes its orders from the government."
• "The only people who appreciate American foreign policy are poodles."

Semi-Surprising: Potential Consequences for Diplomat "Thomas P."

In Germany, big-shot bureaucrats and officials often get away with treating people like garbage with absolutely no consequences. So it was semi-surprising to read that the German government was actually taking the case seriously despite the best efforts of Uwe-Carsten Heye, the Director of the German Consulate General in New York, to downplay the allegations and cover for his underling. "Thomas P.", the diplomat who allegedly made the comments, denied the charges and claims the conversation went differently.  (Apparently he thinks Mr. Stephens would be willing to put his career and reputation as a journalist on the line and lie about the conversation simply to ruin his life.)

According to SPIEGEL ONLINE, diplomat "Thomas P." has been recalled to Berlin and the German Foreign Office (Auswärtigen Amt) has opened an investigation. The official will be required to report on the incident from his point of view. The German government apparently felt it necessary to closely examine the case to avoid further straining transatlantic relations.

SPIEGEL ONLINE further points out that the case has drawn the attention of Guido Westerwelle, the leader of Germany's FDP (Free Democrat Party), who sent out a fax demanding that Germany's Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer personally clarify what happened. Westerwelle is quoted as saying, "Someone who has such abstruse thoughts is hardly qualified to represent Germany."

Indeed. If "Thomas P." truly made the statements listed above, he has no place working as a German diplomat...especially not in the United States. Germany deserves diplomats who are capable of representing the nation with dignity in both public and private. Anyone capable of making statements so outrageous in any setting has no business serving our great land. Let's hope that German officials at the Foreign Office get to the bottom of this fiasco. We will continue to follow this case.

Update: Letters from our Readers

We would like to thank those of our readers who responded to our earlier call to write letters to German authorities about this case. Here are a few outstanding examples forwarded to us:

Letter 1:

Dear Generalkonsul Heye:

I oppose the foreign policy of the current U.S. administration. I deplore the yet-to-be-civil status of civil rights in this country. And I advocate the privilege of Free Speech.

Having said that, I add my voice to those who are appalled at the unseemly conduct of Thomas P., the diplomatic official who so egregiously abused his role as guest (in this country) and host (of journalist Bret Stephens and his wife).

Free speech is a curious thing. In the U.S., we allow everyone—including morons, hate-mongers and fascists—to speak their mind. But it is one thing to express one’s opinions in a professional setting, public or private. It is quite another matter to invite a guest and his wife to one’s home for an ostensibly social occasion, then subject them to overbearing, insensitive, and inappropriate rants.

That the Federal Republic of Germany should assign incompetents such as Thomas P. to any diplomatic position—never mind one so crucial—does not speak well of its standards. I urge you to take the appropriate steps to remove Herr P. from his position and replace him with someone who understands the difference between Free Speech and Disrespectful Oafishness.

Sincerely,

Leslie L.

For more letters, click the link below:

Letter 2:

Dear General-Consul Heye,

It was with great sadness that I read of Brett Stephens’ encounter, as recently reported in the Wall Street Journal, with a reprehensible representative of the German Government. Such remarks, in private or not, makes one wonder if German political leadership understands the damage done to its relationship with America over the last few years. Perhaps German politicians and the German people do not care, after all Germany faces large internal problems. My guess is that with German economic model failing to adapt to a changing world that doesn’t care if Germany’s economy adapts is causing resentment, angst and paranoia among its citizens and ruling classes. Regardless, the government of Germany should be deeply embarrassed by this diplomat’s views as reported by Mr. Stephens. Many Americans, for some time now, have thought our continued presence in Europe counter-productive. Over time it has allowed Germany and other European nations to delude themselves in thinking that their peace and economic prosperity were self-generated and not the result of a historic anomaly, made possible by American arms, financial support and markets. As a descendent of German immigrants to America and having spent some time in Germany, it is regrettable to witness the end of the friendship between of countries. The idiocy of a ranking official of the German Consulate certainly will accelerate the matter.

Sincerely,

Brad L., Asheville, North Carolina

Letter 3:

Sehr geehrter Herr Heye,

als Leser des "WSJ Opinion Journal"  bin ich auf den Artikel "The German Chair" gestossen. Ich habe den Artikel kopiert und ihn weiter unten in der E-mail angehaengt. Gott sei Dank befindet sich ihr Mitarbeiter in einem Land in dem freie Meinungsaeusserung gross geschrieben wird. Von daher wird er sicherlich keine Repressalien seitens der US Regierung zu befuerchten haben, in anderen Laendern dieser Erde waere das hoechstwahrscheinlich anders. (Obwohl bei Diplomatenpaessen normalerweise nichts passiert)  Ich kann das Leiden ihres Mitarbeiter verstehen, er ist anscheinend gegen seinen Willen in einem Land gefangen welches - laut seiner festen Ueberzeugung - auf einer Stufe mit Nordkorea gestellt werden kann. Ich denke, Sie sollten ihm helfen. Eine Versetzung nach Nordkorea oder China ist fuer diesen "Diplomaten" sicherlich eine willkommene Abwechslung und erloest ihn von dem "schrecklichen" und ach so grauenhaften Leben in dem Land das uns die Demokratie brachte - den Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika.

In diesem Sinne verbleibe ich mit freundlichen Gruessen
Sebastian B., Hong Kong

Letter 4:

What is wrong with the German diplomatic corps? I read Bret Stephens’ “The German Chair” in the Wall Street Journal and I’m amazed that someone with the opinions described there could get a job with the German diplomatic corps, much less rise to senior diplomat status.

—Mike P., Seattle

Letter 5:

Sehr geehrter Herr Heye,

als Deutscher Staatsbürger, der schon seit fast 10 Jahren im Ausland lebt,
davon mehrere in den Vereinigten Staaten (und die meisten zuvor in Bonn-Bad
Godesberg), empfand ich den Inhalt des Artikels von Herrn Stehpens im Wall
Street Journal am 17. Juni 2005 (siehe link:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110006834)als beschämend und
empörend. Er wirft nicht nur Fragen auf nach der Qualifikation Ihres
Mitarbeiters, sondern auch danach wie heutzutage Mitarbeiter des AA generell
ausgewählt und ausgebildet werden.

Man kann sich nur wünschen, dass es sich hierbei um einen Einzelfall
gehandelt hat, und dass der betroffene Mitarbeiter für seine deplazierten
Äußerungen zur Verantwortung gezogen wird. Wie Sie sich vorstellen können
habe ich im Hause meiner Familie, die bis heute in Bad Godesberg lebt, viele
Diplomaten kennen gelernt, an derartige Verfehlungen kann sich allerdings
keiner von uns erinnern. Meine Eltern sind gleichermaßen sprachlos.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Christian L.

Letter 6:

Sehr geehrter Herr Heye,

Mit Bestürzung nahm ich von dem beigelegten Artikel, welcher vergangenen Freitag, am 17. Juni auf einer Webseite der Wall Street Journal-Gruppe erschien, Kenntnis. Da ich den Autor, Herrn Bret Stephens, persönlich kenne und ihn auch als ausserordentlich kompetenten und objektiven Journalisten sowie als grossen Freund unseres Landes schätze, kann an der Wahrhaftigkeit seiner Darstellungen nicht der geringste Zweifel bestehen. Folglich muss ich mir die Frage erlauben, wie eine Person, die solch niederträchtige Äusserungen über die Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika von sich gibt, im Dienste unseres Landes stehen kann, und noch dazu in der grössten und bedeutendsten Stadt der USA – eines Landes also, denen wir als Deutsche die Befreiung von der nationalsozialistischen Tyrannei, die unersetzliche Hilfe beim Wiederaufbau, die stetige und wie selbstverständlich erbrachte Verteidigungsbereitschaft der Bundesrepublik Deutschland zu verdanken und nicht zuletzt die Unterstützung bei der Wiedervereinigung zu verdanken haben? Könnte man nicht, bevor man die Bürgerrechte in den USA – einer rechtsstaatlichen Demokratie seit 1776 – mit jenen in Nordkorea vergleicht, kurz überlegen, dass solche Beleidigungen des Geistes nur dem Bild unseres Landes in den Vereinigten Staaten schadet, was nicht zuletzt explizit den Vorhaben der Bundesregierung zuwider läuft? Wäre es nicht möglich gewesen, zu bedenken, dass die Vereinigten Staaten einen Atomangriff auf New York in Kauf genommen haben, um Berlin und den Rest der Bundesrepublik zu verteidigen? Selbst wenn dieser elementare Anstand seitens eines ihrer hochrangigen Angestellten nicht zu erwarten sein sollte, was ich nicht hoffe: kann man nicht im Gespräch mit einem Journalisten seine persönlichen Ansichten hinter dem Wohl und dem Ansehen des Landes zurückstellen?

In der Hoffnung, dass sich solche Anmassungen nicht wiederholen, verbleibe ich

Hochachtungsvoll,

Thomas R.

Letter 7:

Madame or Sir,

I have read the text of an alleged conversation between an American and one of your diplomats in NYC. The text can be found at Davidsmedienkritik, but originally appeared in the Wall Street Journal.

I say "alleged" in the interest of fairness: it could be fabricated. But I have lived in Europe since 1981 and have so much personal experience with this type of warped behavior that I do not doubt it at all. The fact that these are the remarks of a representative of your country is also not surprising.

However, the behavior is unprofessional, shocking, and cruel--and I think this man should be fired immediately. I find his behavior more than offensive: revolting, small and filthy in the sense that the intellectual dishonestly reveals the deepest corruption.

Shame on you. Shame on Germany. How could an intelligent people be once again so thoroughly brainwashed that they once again horrify?

Fire that man.

cstott

We want to thank you all for taking the time to write. If we missed anyone's letter, please feel free to email us with it.

Comments

[lost one]

While I'm glad that the German government apparently does not wish to be represented in the manner that the diplomat in Mr. Stephens's tale behaves, I am curious as to how the are going to be able to prove or disprove what happened. After all, isn't it merely going to be a case of "he said/he said"? If anyone has any insight, perhaps you could share.

Still, the fact that they are investigating the incident is heartening. It would have been easy enough for them to just dismiss it out of hand.

[scum of the univ]

The whole thing will turn into precisely that: a "he said/she said" deal.

A real investigation would look at other conversations and statements made by the diplomat. But they will keep the focus narrow in order to prevent any chance of a preponderance of evidence to accumulate, and quietly move the diplomat to another position, with a promotion to make sure he keeps his mouth shut.

Anyone who can't see that coming is fairly blind.

[James W.]

I'm liking Guido Westerwelle of the FDP more and more. First the IG Metall cover and now this... I don't know a lot about him yet; but, he seems to be one of the few German politicians with balls.

[StevenW]

I´m not sure if he HAS balls but i know that he LIKES balls very much. :)

[PacRim Jim]

A German diplomat? Is that like a French superhero?

[PacRim Jim]

A German diplomat? Is that like a French superhero?

[F.T.]

Guido kicks ass !

:-))

[Curtis LeMay]

Well done Ray,

Many thanks.

[Gabi]

New Tape: Al Zarkawi said the March 2003 war against Iraq "was unjust war by the head of infidelity, America." He called President Bush an "idiot" for announcing an end to major hostilities in May 2003, saying the war "has just started." Sounds like a statement by a German Journalist.

[David Foster]

I object to his implied insult to poodles. Poodles are brave, loyal, and intelligent.

Anyhow, isn't the poodle a German breed originally?

[Huan]

good for the german foreign service!

[Steve]

I have to think that the behavior illustrated in the story probably really did occur, in which case this guy doesn't deserve a posting in America. So I'm glad he's gone, and I hope he stays that way.

Now, he will probably be posted to the EU's new foreign service, where he can join the "conterweight" crew... :/

[Greta Baker]

There were two comments regarding the article about the German Diplomat in the WSJ. One felt, responding to a bully, while being a guest, may hold the risk of having to come down to the level of the bully. The other commentator did disagree. Leaving such outragous statements stand would be wrong.One would have to work some humor into the response. Wolfgang Ischinger is also shockingly arrogant and totally unsuitable for a representative for Germany. I have witnessed this several times at the FOX News station.Hopefully, Mrs. Merkel does some house cleaning.
Greta Baker

[Don]

I hate to disagree with Ray, but I think there clearly is a place for 'Thomas P'. I can think of at least 3 places for a diplomat of his eminence. Cuba, Venezuela, or Zimbabwe. Possibly Sudan.

[Trish]

@ Don

have you considered Gitmo

conclusion: never talk with americans in private about what you really think or it will be in the newspapers the next day............looks like that americans became a bunch of traitors who can not even keep private conversations private!

some ally from italy :)

[Rob]

Having been "ambushed" numerous times in the same manner as the WSJ jouralist, I now make the point never to discuss politics in any European social setting. If asked why, I simply say that now that we are "strategic competitors", it is not appropriate. A comparison between Euro/US and China/US relations helps make the point. Normally this is enough to take politics off the table and put more congenial subjects up for discussion. It may even inspire some thought on the part of my fellow dinner guests.

[Ralle, German]

As more I track back this Blog as more I think you are quite blind for your own media and critisize everything foreign which does not smell US-american...

Have you ever wondered why there are thousands of movies and crime-tv-series where the sheriff in every town is the despotic blind undemocratic idiot? With rights that even a King in the middle ages didn't have...

What if the chap is right? And was only telling the truth?

I mean: how can we trust you? Did you or everybody in the US ever stood up and said: Our country is not that stupid as the moviemakers put it... it is not that undemocratic... we are no murders who shoot first and ask later... as its typical in every us movie...

So what about your media?

Notiz von David: Ralle, das Thema dieses Blogs seit rund 2 Jahren ist "Anti-Amerikanismus in deutschen Medien". "Your media" sind für mich die deutschen Medien, denn ich bin Deutscher und lebe in Deutschland. Ray, mein Blog-Partner, ist Amerikaner, lebte aber für mehrere Jahre in Deutschland, und interessiert sich für das gleiche Thema. Warum also sollten wir uns um US-Medien kümmern? Dafür gibt es zahllose andere und sehr gute US-Blogs.
Im übrigen sehen US Medien gewiß keinen Anlaß, sich gegenüber der These "we are no murders who shoot first and ask later" zu rechtfertigen. Das sind typisch deutsche Phantasien der US-Wirklichkeit, die ob ihrer Lächerlichkeit aus US-Sicht keines Kommentars bedürfen.

[Ralle, German]

@ Amihasser

Seems your IQ is > 20 but < 50 and that says everything about you and your arguments...

[Lou Minatti]

That guy Bret Stephens was talking with? He wasn't really a German diplomat. He was really Karl Rove.

[amiexpat]

explains why Karl is spelled the German way with a K

[sehoy]

Someone needs to enlighten me.

This "diplomat's" behavior seems to be something that Germans, in general, do all the time: offend against the rules of hospitality.

I've experienced the kind of tirade the author of the German Chair article writes about: going into someone's house as an invited guest and being browbeaten for being an American and grilled on my country's policies.

What I find even more offensive is how many times I have had German guests come into my home for dinner or overnight stays and have had to listen to their criticism of my county, my country's politcs and my country's lack of culture, education and world knowledge.

It's such a commom occurance that I have come to realize that Germans and Americans have very different standards of hospitality.

Americans, in general, would never go into someone's home as an invited guest and proceed to criticize anything about the host's country, politics, education or culture. Never.

Not even the American soldiers now in Iraq would ever dream of going into an Iraqi's house as a guest and criticize the country or the culture while enjoying the host's hospitality.

And yet, Germans do this so frequently and so unthinkingly, that I suspect that Germans and Americans just must have very different standards of hospitality.

[Jean Louis Bonnard]

Germans and Americans have different standards of hospitality, so true, but that is not the only thing different between Germans and Americans.
I think Germans and Americans have absolutly nothing in common. That of course is the best thing about the Germans and the reason I like them.

[Pato]

@jean louis- I can't tell if you are a man ort a girl, but leave it to a fetid frenchman to embrace thier past conqueror as a modern friend of convenience only.
France and germany both continue to represent the dusty, horribly impotent from any perspective and failed society's of europe.
And a german feels they are more wordly than your average american simply because he can put on a speedo and hang out with kids in thailand each year? Other than that, the ignorance for the world and how modernity evolves that is coming from europe is a disgrace.
Now see if you can effectively hold elections in kosovo over the next decade, continue to shout at the US as you bury your pathetic heads in eachother's arses.

[zeta]

"because he can put on a speedo and hang out with kids in thailand each year"

That says a lot about you and your views, Pato.

[Ray D.]

Pato...

You are pushing it even by your standards...

[taxpayer2]

Quite hypocritical to fire Thomas P., and sheer denial to take any satisfaction in this recall.
Europe is already gone over to the other side. There is no change of course, no redemption. They are doomed, so what does it matter that some one 'sliplomat' was caught expressing the nonsense that they all believe anyway? It doesn't change anything. He may be punished but it is for speaking his mind and getting caught, not for his actions.
Certainly, the truth should be told about their attitudes. Just remember these things when they come back to us, that they are just these has-been wolves and not the apologetic sheep they appear as.

[Sandy P]

Some don't call your alliance "frankreich" for nothing, Louie.

I have just started reading "The American Enemy" by Phillipe Roger.

With all the focus on-books/papers about America these past 200+++ years, I am coming to the conclusion your country is either mentally ill (obsession), or just plain creepy.

[267]

From a diplomatic point of view, it's essential that this guy be fired if the allegations are true. Not for being a bigot with a cob up his ass, but for being stupid and impulsive. Those aren't traits associated with professional maturity in diplomacy. If he can't come up with a convincing defense and yet isn't transferred or fired, then we can only conclude that this sort of barbaric behavior is official German policy. The behavior of Germany's NY ambassador isn't encouraging in that regard.

If this German diplomat's commentary is really representative of German attitudes, I don't see much of a future for US-German relations, other than on opposite sides of a battlefield someplace.

I think Germans and Americans have absolutly nothing in common. That of course is the best thing about the Germans and the reason I like them.

I too am glad that the Americans and Germans have nothing in common, but I find that reason to not like Germans. After all, who would want to be assosciated with the Holocaust.

[Tanja]

And a german feels they are more wordly than your average american simply because he can put on a speedo and hang out with kids in thailand each year?

---------------------------------------------

I too am glad that the Americans and Germans have nothing in common, but I find that reason to not like Germans. After all, who would want to be assosciated with the Holocaust.

----------------------------------------------

And this blog complains about Anti-Americanism in Germany ? What a joke, no country in the world is more Anti-German than the United States and the comments on this blog are good evidence for it.
This is not a question of Democrats or Republicans, liberals or conservatives, left wingers or right wingers, Americans in general hate Germany and try to insult and dehumanize Germans whenever there is a chance.
Germans, regardless of their political persuation, should be aware of this and they should be scared. A country that breeds so much hate against Germany is a dangerous threat , especially when this country is armed with weapons of mass destruction.

[Pamela]

@Tanja
>>especially when this country is armed with weapons of mass destruction

Nah. The last time we destroyed you we rebuilt you. We don't feel like rebuilding you anymore so we'll just let you destroy yourselves.

[James W.]

@Steven W.

I´m not sure if he HAS balls but i know that he LIKES balls very much. :)

I just did a little background check on Guido Westerwelle. I had laughed so hard at my ignorance that I had tears running down my face. I honestly had no idea...not that I have a problem with him being gay. For me, it's all about getting the job done.

[267]

Tanja says:

"This is not a question of Democrats or Republicans, liberals or conservatives, left wingers or right wingers, Americans in general hate Germany and try to insult and dehumanize Germans whenever there is a chance.
Germans, regardless of their political persuation, should be aware of this and they should be scared. A country that breeds so much hate against Germany is a dangerous threat , especially when this country is armed with weapons of mass destruction."

Maybe you should switch to decaf.

[amiexpat]

americans hating germans? that 's a good one..
how much AMerican press coverage did Schroeder's visit get? NONE!!
if he (and Germany) was hated, the press would have been all over him.. but he (like Germany) is becoming IRRELEVANT.. AMerica doesn't hate Germany, they just ignore you..
besides I thought the Amis were 'weltfremd'.. we don't even know where Germany is.. how could we hate you, when we don't even know where or who you are?

With 25 percent of the American population having some sort of German ancestry, I find the
image of Germany hatred in the USA laughable..

[Eric in Oregon]

I have heard so many similar statements coming from Germans both in the US and in Germany that this story is hardly surprising. Just an example of what Germans say all the time, both to each other and anyone else who will listen. I have been to small villages in India where local boys repeat all the anti-American dribble previous German visitors have passed on. So now the German government will get someone more adept at hiding or downplaying how Germans actaully feel.

I am the great-grandson of German immigrants. They came to this country with nothing and made a decent life that I enjoy to this day. When modern Germans tell their lies and distortions about the people of the USA, it is more a reflection on them, and how low German society has fallen, than on Americans.

[Eric in Oregon]

I have heard so many similar statements coming from Germans both in the US and in Germany that this story is hardly surprising. Just an example of what Germans say all the time, both to each other and anyone else who will listen. I have been to small villages in India where local boys repeat all the anti-American dribble previous German visitors have passed on. So now the German government will get someone more adept at hiding or downplaying how Germans actaully feel.

I am the great-grandson of German immigrants. They came to this country with nothing and made a decent life that I enjoy to this day. When modern Germans tell their lies and distortions about the people of the USA, it is more a reflection on them, and how low German society has fallen, than on Americans.

[lost one]

Beg to differ. Most Americans don' think about Germans overmuch. When they do, the impression tends towards the positive. In fact, many are like myself in that when we discover how hateful many Germans have become (or perhaps always were) towards us, we are hurt. Because we actually thought that we were friends. I guess freeing someone from the Nazis and protecting them from the Soviets is "old news". Huh.

[ATM]

This is not a question of Democrats or Republicans, liberals or conservatives, left wingers or right wingers, Americans in general hate Germany and try to insult and dehumanize Germans whenever there is a chance. Germans, regardless of their political persuation, should be aware of this and they should be scared. A country that breeds so much hate against Germany is a dangerous threat , especially when this country is armed with weapons of mass destruction.

No, the sentiments you see here are reflective of a small minority of Americans who have become disgusted as they become aware of the hateful sentiments Germans have had towards the US, but kept hidden because we were paying for your defense and rebuilding and providing you with markets. Frankly, most Americans are either positively disposed or indifferent to Germany and Germans, and that is because they are woefully ignorant of German attitudes because our media is uninterested in reporting on this. This is largely a result because of the multicultural nature of our society which discourages picking on particularly nationalities or ethnic and religous groups. If most Americans were to be educated about German anti-American attitudes, I'm sure a lot of Americans would develop reflexively anti-German attitudes and develop a considerable amount of contempt for "bad-weather friends" like Germany. And that would mean trouble for the German economy, which is no doubt why the German government recalled the diplomat.

[Tanja]

besides I thought the Amis were 'weltfremd'.. we don't even know where Germany is.. how could we hate you, when we don't even know where or who you are?
-----------------------------------------

Americans did not know where Iraq is or what the difference is between Iraq and Iran. They even make songs about their ignorance . I'm sure you know Alan Jackson's 9/11 No.1 country tune "Where Were You When the World Stopped Turning?" with the refrain:

"I'm just a singer of simple songs.
I'm not a real political man.
I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you
The difference in Iraq and Iran."

So it doesn't matter if Americans know where Germany is, it is enough if CNN knows where it is and why America has to attack this freedom hating country.
Americans don't care if their airforce bombs Iraqis or Germans, hajjis or krauts, sandniggers or huns, ragheads or squareheads.

And about Schroeder, I think he was wrong opposing the Iraq war the way he did. It is not a good idea to provoke Americans. Americans are armed and dangerous, they don't know what they do and why they do it, they only know they have to do something against somebody and Germany could become the next target of their aggression.
" You're either with US or against US " is their rule and Schroeder risked the security of Germany when he opposed the American president.

[ATM]

It is not a good idea to provoke Americans. Americans are armed and dangerous, they don't know what they do and why they do it, they only know they have to do something against somebody and Germany could become the next target of their aggression.

If you are German, your attitudes towards Americans are reflective of the typical German bigotry, ignorance and arrogance that posters on this blog find offensive. If more Americans were to become aware of the contemptuous and bigoted attitudes of Germans, they would wonder why we wasted our soldiers and tax dollars on rebuilding and defending Germany from the end of WWII to German reunification and the fall of the Warsaw pact.

" You're either with US or against US " is their rule and Schroeder risked the security of Germany when he opposed the American president.

And when has the US threatened Germany? German media/propaganda is really dumbing down the German people and filling their heads with irrational and paranoid ideas.

[DaveP.]

I was going to respond to Tanja, but then I thought about it.
Why waste my time with just another example of the Great European Unwashed, desperately jealous that she wasn't born American?

Nyetkulturno.

[scum of the univ]

@DaveP

Tanja sounds a great deal like the US left. They didn't really advance their cause or demonstrate their understanding by calling everyone who didn't vote for Kerry a bunch of religious zombies.

The less those who know nothing about the US understand the US, the less they will be able to keep up. Eventually, they will become irrelevant. I'd almost rather a marxist replaced Schroeder in September. The problem will be resolved for the US eventually, and that is probably the quicker route.

"You're either with US or against US "

I love people that bother to quote things, and have it be an incorrect quote. Nice.

[Rob]

If the German people disagree with American policy so much, then why do they allow us to station our troops in their country? Why are the members of NATO? Why don't they demand us to leave? When the anti-American pitch got so loud in Korea, Donald Rumsfeld reduced the American forces by 7,000 troops and threatened to move the rest to Pusan on the southern tip of the Korean peninsula. Funny thing happened. The demonstrations stopped, the president who was elected on an anti-American platform stopped with the demagoguery, and the troops stayed in place. One suspects the same thing would happen in Germany. After all, if the United States was not subsidizing the German and European militaries, some of those lovely government social programs would be lost. If Americans want to keep the anti-American pitch down (or get more sympathetic right leaning parties elected) the easiest thing to do would be to shut down some German military bases and threaten to leave NATO. After all, shouldn't we now let the Russians have their own "sphere of influence"?

[Pat Patterson]

Americans don't hate Germans or Germany, they don't even think about Germany any more than they would a crack in the sidewalk. Americans do like light German beers!

[Pamela]

@Tanja
>>They even make songs about their ignorance

LOL! Ok, so now we get to define Germans by Horst Wessel? One of your so-called erudite diplomats invited an American and his wife into his home for a private function and proceeded to insult his guests and their country that it is his job to build ties with. When his stupidity and venality are duly noted by Americans with the utter contempt they deserve, that shows Americans to be anti-German.

For far too long German politics and culture have taken advantage of German irrelevance in American thought to construct a false story of the U.S. It assuages Germany's irrelevance. It distracts from the hard work of figuring out where you've gone wrong AGAIN. It alleviates the requirement that any civilization worth the appellation have the moral and political courage to not outsource the physical defense of its own people. It excuses the necessary capacity for shame when outsourcing to plumbers from Poland brings more outrage and fear than the institutionalized denial that a state's first responsibilty is to protect and defend.

So whinge away Tanja. Heaven forbid nobody slaughters 3000 German civilians in a single day as the coup de grace of years of provocation. If it does happen, it won't have been done by the 'Amis' your flacid, shabby arguments are directed against. Have a wonderful time figuring out what the fuck you do next, when your military couldn't even transport itself to Aghanistan.

So, while you toss your cultural and political capital convincing yourself that the U.S. is the font of all evil, danger, and fear, we're off killing Islamofacists - lots and lots of them.
Sleep tight, Tanja. Almost every American knows that if you do, we're a big part of the reason.

[Lost One]

Ah yes, the American troops stationed in Germany. If I had my way, there would be an immediate withdrawl. I mean, like, overnight. One morning, the Germans that lived near the base would wake up and there would be nothing but pipes sticking up from the ground where the base was. And then they can do with the land what they'd like. EVERYBODY wins.

You know. Except the Germans that work on the base. They'd kind of lose. But they should be willing to make such a sacrifice for their countrymen. Besides, what's a few more people on the public dole anyway?

BTW, if my posts sound bitter, that's because they are. Not because I "hate" Germany or Germans, but because some people that I care for a great deal live in Germany, and still are incapable of acting rationally and politely when it comes to political things.

[PacRim Jim]

Germans are the largest ethic group in America.

[Gabi]

Happy 4th of July!!!!!!! I love America!!!

Thank you, David and Ray, for having built (?) this bridge of friendship between Germany and the US!