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Zwei große


Zwei große Grundströmungen lassen sich heute in ganz Europa in der innerislamischen Debatte ausmachen. Wort und Tat – der gewalttätige Dschihad und die Predigt des Korans. Beiden Strömungen, Wort und Tat aber ist eines gemeinsam: Das Ziel, Europa zu islamisieren. Der von der traurigen Gestalt des Londoner Bürgermeisters empfangene radikale Prediger Jussuf Al Quaradawi, der Selbstmordattentate von Islamisten in Israel als Zeichen der Gerechtigkeit Allahs bezeichnet, sagt es ganz offen: „Der Islam wird nach Europa zurückkehren, als Sieger und Eroberer. Zweimal wurde er vertrieben, diesmal wird die Eroberung nicht mit dem Schwert, sondern durch Predigt und Ideologie geschehen“.

Der Glaube an die Rückkehr des Islams ist allen gemeinsam, er ist auch die Grundlage des Terrors. Deshalb sagt der Islamkenner Hans Peter Raddatz ebenso nüchtern wie knapp: „Es ist ein weitverbreiteter Irrtum zu glauben, dass man den gewalttätigen Islamismus vom eigentlichen Islam trennen könnte. Die beiden sind ursächlich miteinander verbunden und deshalb stehen wir auch vor einem unerschöpflichen Täterreservoir“.

Es sei „keineswegs so, wie Herr Blair behauptet, dass die Muslime weltweit genauso empfinden würden wie wir und voller Abscheu stünden vor dieser Tat. Dem ist nicht so. Seit wir Umfragen haben im Nahen Osten über die Einstellung der Masse zu ihren Islamisten, gibt es auch Zahlen über die mentale Position dieser Massen und die sehen nicht gut aus. Eine deutliche Mehrheit, zum Beispiel nach dem 11. September waren es 88 Prozent, zeigt sich eins mit den Tätern“.

Die Muslime an sich seien „selbstverständlich keine Täter. Die große Masse von ihnen will in Ruhe gelassen werden. Sie wehren sich sogar teilweise gegen den Druck der Islamisten in der Region, aber dennoch kommen sie alle aus einer Ideologie und das ist der Islam“.

Auch andere Islamkenner weisen auf diese gemeinsame Grundlage hin. Sie ist deswegen so bedeutsam, weil es im Islam keine oberste Lehrmeinung gibt, die im Namen aller den islamistischen Terror verurteilen könnte. Im Gegenteil, die gerade in Deutschland wieder in Talkshows herumgereichten üblichen Experten oder Vertreter des Islams repräsentieren mit ihren Organisationen keine zehn Prozent der Muslime in Deutschland. Es geht um das Denken. Es geht bei diesem Denken nicht, wie in den sogenannten zivilisierten Ländern des griechischjüdisch-christlichen Kulturkreises, um die Herrschaft des Rechts, das Primat des Rechtsstaates oder die Gewaltenteilung in Legislative, Exekutive und Judikative. Es gibt noch keinen islamischen Montesquieu, Locke oder Hobbes.



"Everybody belives in the right of israel to exist... "

I'm sorry, but you are wrong about this. The Palis absolutely do not believe in Israel's right to exist. If you look at any map published by the PA or any of the various Pali factions, they will inevitably have all of Israel labeled as "Occupied Palestine" or some such. A key paragraph in the PA's constitution calls for the PA to dedicate itself to the complete destruction of Israel. One of the basic concessions called for in both the Oslo agreements and the "roadmap" is for the PA to alter its constitution to recognize Israel's right to exist. This has been present in all negotiating since the early '90s, and Arafat promised at the time that it would be done. Just change a few words. A very simple thing, and there were many Israeli concessions (such as land grants and freer access to Israel) tied to it. But in fifteen years it has never been done.

If the Palis can't be bothered to alter a few words in their constitution in exchange for land and material benefits, how can they possibly be seriously interested in peace?

@ poguemahone

Very interesting post today (Friday, 29 July) on Jewish terrorism over at andrewsullivan.com. The guest blogger there is Judith Klinghoffer. (You might recognize the last name, which might also give you a clue about her sensibilities.)

The interesting thing to me is the Jewish response to Jewish terrorism, as personified by David Ben Gurion. Klinghoffer's article (make sure to click on the link) deals with exactly the question I raised above, and her concluding remark hits the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.

But, what the hell. It's likely that no one will read this (my) post facto comment, and her article merely deals with history.

Maybe when I grow up I'll be as important as you - and come to understand your position that history doesn't matter. I'll give it a rest, in other words.


Why don't you work on educating people like Gert Rofe? What she is saying is that "everybody believes Israel has a right to exist"

Nonsense - how can any informed person make this claim?

Also she brings up the UN resolutions against Israel as reason not to speak about the UN resolutions as a supporter of Israel

Quite the opposite

The disparity in UN resolutions against Israel is simply proof of what the UN is

can't you see, pogue? the fact that there are so many resolutions against Israel and not against other countries.. ALL THE OTHER countries have their houses in order..
peaceful, democratic, SOCIALLY JUST... just not Israel.. isn'T that a good explanation for the lopsidedness? why can't you see that?
geez, are you pigheaded.. ;) sarcasm off
what I don't get ... the left (and I am a former leftie having worked as a volunteer for Mondale against Reagan in 84, when about 3 people voted for Mondale)..
the left loves gay rights..
Israel has gay pride parades.
what about Egypt or 'Palestine'? they kill 'fags'..
the left loves womens rights - after all NOTHING is more sacred than a woman's 'choice'.. what about
woman's rights in the Islamic/Arab world?
does a woman there have the 'choice' not to be genitally mutilated?
the left sides with the Islamofascists..
I just don't get it.
re: Israel's right to exist... the PLO 'officially' does.. but actions speak louder than words.. btw what was Joschka (saint Joschka I call him) doing at a PLO conference before the PLO 'officially' recognized Israel's right to exist?
and now he makes foreign policy with Israel? and until recently he was a VOLKSHELD in Germany?
A man who attended a PLO conference?
am I the only one who sees anything wrong with this picture?

"Everybody belives in the right of israel to exist... "

I'm sorry, but you are wrong about this

i meant the countries and institution that are part of the road map.

There will be no palestinian state without securing the existance of israel. As for example the peace with egypt shows.

The question remains what brings peace?

Everything you guys have is negative arguments but no alternative.
In my view israel should make the first step because they are able to do this. The palestinians can not create a state on their own without the israelis leaving the west jordan region. You can see that if you lokk at the map. There is no state possible between the israeli villages and roads. So if Mr Bush the EU Russia and several UN resolutions supported by several US governments are correct than israel has to leave anyway because it is illegal. So they should leave and we will see if the palestinians are as bad as you guys belive or if there is a majority of reasonable people who just want to have a normal live.
Israel continues to build settlements to build roads etc as long as they belive that they can create facts with stones and roads there will be no peace.

But perhabs i am wrong but have youu guys to present here?

@ poguemahone

Let's see. Maybe because I think what Gert writes makes sense.

Maybe because Gert doesn't attack reasonable attempts at dialogue but, in fact, shows admirable restraint when (inevitably) he's attacked.

Maybe because Gert doesn't raise specious arguments and then try to change the topic when evidence is presented exposing those arguments.

Maybe because Gert doesn't wilfully misconstrue what someone else has written in order to try and score cheap rhetorical points.

Maybe . . . well, actually that's about it.


Gert, I find your comment, ‘Israel changed from a nation that defendes itself against the aggresion of its neighbors into a supressing occupation force in the last decades,’ to be rather inconsistent. To me, it’s difficult to understand how Israel has become a ‘crushing occupation force,’ considering that Israel has, over the last two decades, credulously taken the first steps, and adopted several European initiated Peace Processes - of which granted Yassir Arafat sovereign authority over 97% of the Palestinian population, funded and armed the Palestinian police force, and started negotiations. Despite Israel’s bold, and potentially dangerous concessions, murderous Palestinian terror attacks arose, nevertheless Israel maintained extreme restraint.

This one-sided “Peace Process” continued until 2000, when socialist Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, went against the wide Israeli consensus, and unsuspectingly offered the Palestinians practically everything they had demanded; A Palestinian state with its capital in Jerusalem, control over the Temple Mount, Gaza, 97% of the West Bank (with additional, arable Israeli land to compensate for the 3%) and a 30 milliard dollar compensation package. Arafat walked away from Israel’s courageous step towards a peaceful solution, and responded with what is known as the Al Aksa Intifada. Bombs started to go off on Buses, where people were on their way to work. A pregnant mother, and her four daughters were shot to death whilst walking to school. A Sbarro’s Pizzaria, where a 5 year old girl was enjoying her birthday party, went up in flames, killing the girl and her grandmother. These horrific acts of murder, which Arafat aided and encouraged, became an everyday occurrence for Israelis.

Israel is a Democracy, and Democracies have a duty to protect the lives of their citizens. Due to the incessant murderous attacks on innocent civilians, Israel was compelled to build a security fence in order to uphold its Democratic obligations. It would be naïve, and possibly cause even greater despair among the Palestinian population if the security fence (of which 97% is made of Chain Link) was to be built on the Green Line. Doing so would cut directly through Palestinian villages and farms. The current route of the fence is designed to cause the least amount of hardship on the Palestinian population. Dozens of farmer’s gates, checkpoints using the latest technology in order to make the wait as short as possible for Palestinians, several new hospitals and schools. Every Palestinian has the right to appeal the route of the fence. In fact, a major rerouting of the fence has recently been approved, making its presence in the West Bank far more trivial. The fence will no longer be required when the Palestinians choose peace over the murder of innocents.

Right now, with Israel‘s historic withdrawal from Gaza, the Palestinians will have an unprecedented opportunity to demonstrate their desire for a peaceful solution. There will be no Israeli occupation, but autonomous Palestinian rule. Will the Palestinian leadership choose the right path, and build up the economy, disarm terrorist groups, and provide decent living standards for their people. Or, will terrorist groups continue to thrive, and stock up on weapons? Will the brutal Quasam rocket attacks continue on Israeli communities? Will the PA spend the gargantuan amount of international aid it receives on new flags (Mr. Abbas has ordered the production of 50,000 Palestinian flags after Israel leaves Gaza) and deposits in Swiss bank accounts, or will they spend it on new hospitals and parks? These are all very critical questions, and whose outcome will determine the future of the peace process.

Gert, you seem to be a somewhat reasonable person, just a little misguided. Hopefully you will choose to support rationality and reason. Support the Road Map. And stop holding Israel to an unfairly high, and unique standard, doing so borders on racism.

regarding your comment about palestine turning into another hong kong or singapore..
I like Mark Steyn's comment..
give Arafat Switzerland, he would turn it into a sewer within six months.

regarding your comment about palestine turning into another hong kong or singapore..
I like Mark Steyn's comment..
give Arafat Switzerland, he would turn it into a sewer within six months.

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