Al-Qaeda Man Released by German Courts...Again

Why can't America just be more like Germany when it comes to fighting terror? What's wrong with giving stateless Islamo-Fascist terrorists a full civil trial in accordance with international law and the Geneva Conventions? The Schroeder government knows how to treat its terrorists right America, get with the program! And once they are released, if they aren't up to a jihad, beheading or suicide-bombing, our terrorist friends can suck off of German taxpayers for life and take advantage of the super-social German welfare and asylum laws.

Comments

[Sock Puppet of Doom]

I think this was more about the Court thumbing their noses at the EU and the all EU arrest warrant. The German constutition is as it is. It should not be changed or ignored to make some EU members happy. Spain will have to ask for extradition on charges that will be permitted under the German constutition. I can assure you that this slimeball is under 24/7 watch from the police and security establishment, Germany doesn't want him either but the law is the law.

[apex]

The real mover behind this decision were two things:
A) He is a german citizen (and we should ask ourselves why this is the case), and extradition of a citizen goes against every nation state's policy and values.
B) What he did was not a crime in Germany at the time he did it - AQ was only later added to the list of terrorist organizations (again, why?), so he can't be tried for it in Germany.

Two tenets of the rule of law and order, it is unfortunate that in this case, they produced this result, but the blame rests squarely with the government for A) granting someone like him citizenship and B) ignoring AQ as a terrorist organization for too long. What I'd also like to know is whether he was naturalized under the new relaxed requirements ...

apex

[no comment]

...B) ignoring AQ as a terrorist organization for too long.

by the way, who gave money and equipment to al qaida when they weren't yet (?) a terrorist organization?

by the way, who gave money and equipment to al qaida when they weren't yet (?) a terrorist organization?

americans?

[Karsten Winkovics]

Well, the man was to be tried in Spain, so he cannot be tried in Germany for the same thing again. He was just lucky that the European Arrest Warrant needs to be amended to comply with the Grundgesetz, so he is on leave.

What I really like is that nice bit of bias that he was released because he was a Terrorist. Keep ignoring the facts that do not fit your picture of the world.

"If all else fails, only a total pigheaded unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
Gen. Cecil Hogmanay Melchett, RA, BA Goes Fourth

[Alex N.]

"by the way, who gave money and equipment to al qaida when they weren't yet (?) a terrorist organization?" - no comment

The whole West? And btw, who was pointing nuclear weapons towards the West during this time, smartass? Maybe you should stay true to your name - your bubbling is getting old quickly.

[Ray D.]

@ Karsten,

I guess the sarcasm went right over your head...didn't it?

[Joe]

It is part of the German law.

It supports the ideals of the social welfare state

It supports the policies of the German government.

Besides as someone pointed out he broke no law in Germany.

It would appear now Germany can be considered a safe heaven for those who plan, support or commit terrorist acts in other parts of Europe.

We will see if this will lead to the long term protection of the German people or not.

Who knows it just might.

[Raphael]

@ Joe:
Ok, firstly: The German government may have been slow on declaring the financial and other support of terrorist organizations abroad illegal. Don't know about that, maybe someone else knows?
That said, in what way does this support the social welfare state? How does it support the policies of the German government? Do you seriously think it's the German government's policy to release terrorists? Ever heard of seperation of powers? Wasn't it just that German government who passed the bill that now was declared uncontitutional by the "Bundesverfassungsgericht"? What kind of logic is that? Then again, if you say that it is the policy of the German government to respect the state of law and the separation of powers, you're right. It's just that in a democracy like Germany, every citizen should have the right for a fair trial, and if a bill is unconstitutional, it doesn't make a difference if the one calling the "Bundesverfassungsgericht" is suspected of terrorism or shoplifting. And yes, I think that this is right. If the state of Spain had had any serious proof that this guy was involved in the 3/11 attacks, this problem wouldn't exist. It just seems they don't.

Just imagine this situation, which is just what could happen with this law: You are on vacation in some exotic country. You have a drink on a warm night, not knowing that alcohol is prohibited in that country. Back home, the country sues you for drinking and your country extradites you - without even checking the facts, without any possibility for you to stop it. Do you think that's ok?

So, please, think before you start tiping and inform yourslef about what you're tiping, and stop spinning the facts. I think what you're doing is called "bias". If it's the state of law and separaration of powers you don't like, say so. You would be right in line with the terrorists then.

[Sock Puppet of Doom]

"It's better the guilty go free than one innocent man go to prison." It works for me.

This pile of pig feces will pay, the German security services have him under 24/7 observation, he can't pass gas without some highly efficent German lan enforcement agent recording it. He will go to prison for something some day.

[Joe]

Gee at the end of that long comment on my post it would seem we are in agreement.

It is part of the German law.

It supports the ideals of the social welfare state

It supports the policies of the German government.

Besides as someone pointed out he broke no law in Germany.

It would seem we are in agreement with all of the above.

What is a bit more puzzling is the German government between 9 11 01 and 3 11 04 could not get around to passing meaningful laws to fight terrorism. I guess they were distracted by their efforts to protect Saddam, defending the social welfare state and insuring social justice for all.

What was not of course addressed is the part about being a safe heaven but maybe time will tell.

It would surely seem if I were a terrorist I would want to be tired in a German court. The burden of proof of guilt is very high. This of course is what we all would hope for. Then again it seems to prove that someone is a terrorist in Germany is nearly impossible. I guess you are right the Germans just view terrorism a bit differently and don't have laws in place that make these actions a crime.

Hell it now makes me wonder how in the world the members of the bader meinhof gang were ever convicted. Does anyone know if they just confessed?

On a much broader issue than something as mudane to Germans as terrorism, is the larger question of how EU laws, agreements and treaties must some how now fit into the legal framework of Greater Germany. Might this be an example of that? I wonder how the elites are going to work this little problem out.

Then again if I remember there was an article stating the court made an annoucenment that the document referred to as the EU constitution was in fact illegal in Germany. This of course did not stop the ratification process.

[Joe]

SPOD

I hope you are right. I also hope these are not the same clowns who told the US that Saddam had WMD’s. Remember that was the position of the German Intelligent Services at the time.

I would say this terrorist knows he is being watched. You must think he is a fool to do something that might lead to his arrest.

I consider none of these people fools. It would appear the terrorists have won once again.

[no comment]

@alex n.: The whole West?

a-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! keep on dreaming...

[no comment]

@alex n.: And btw, who was pointing nuclear weapons towards the West during this time

how is this stupid question related to al qaida? and btw. who was pointing nuclear weapons towards the east (including eastern germany) during this time? what's your point?

[ATM]

The US never gave weapons to bin Laden or his gang if that's what you are trying to say. Bin Laden himself said that he received no American aid in an interview.