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Good point about where people would rather live. Immigration from Europe to America far outstrips Americans (or Europeans living in the US) moving to Europe.

Same thing with the rest of world. Why would talented ambitious workers move to France and Germany just to support an outmoded pension system when they could move to America and keep more of their earnings?

I agree. The biased commentating and journalistically bad "reporting" about the US is to blame for these opinion poll results. It's outrageous that China got better favorability ratings.

You quote SPON:
"The main problem for the Europeans is not the land itself, but instead its President"
That would be unfair, but wouldn't bother me THAT much since presidents come and go. What I find more troubling is that not only the image of the US has declined, but the image of the American people as well, which can be blamed on bad and biased media as well. This could really have negative long term implications.

The PEW Global Attitudes survey (to which the Spiegel refers to) indicate that "the positive image of Americans has declined considerably since 2002." Therefore The Economist concluded: "Anti-Americanism is becoming entrenched, and getting more personal."

I have posted excerpts of The Economist article and the original PEW survey in our blog last night:
http://atlanticreview.org/


China?? Honestly...

I guess this is the PEW-report in question.

Some remarks:

Put Canada up there with the Europeans.

The culprit for all this is easily identified: 2002/2003 US approval ratings plummeted everywhere.
The so-called "legend of squandered sympathy" obviously is not a legend at all.

The "How Western Publics View Americans" graphic shows that Germans have a comparatively positive view of Americans.

Which country is loved everywhere? (drums roll) Good old Germany. Must be our gifted diplomats >:->

That's an excellent point Amihasser - thank you. Now that we know that a handful of disinvolved angry simply don't like us for randomly selected reasons, maybe all 300 million of us should just march into the gas chambers.

As an American, the fact that Europeans view China overwhelmingly more favorably than America is of no concern to me whatsoever.

If I were a citizen of one of those European countries - and was also formiing a new federal system - I'd be afraid. I'd be very very afraid.

Ron,

well, now we have good old Tony Blair who is going to salvage us: No more United States of Europe, no more subsidies for agriculture. It's only consistent when you think about it: What we're afraid of is to become anything remotely similar to the United States of America. We don't want that to happen.

Of course Europeans like China more, it's communist remember !
Of course Europeans hate the USA, all their bright people move there leaving an empty society behind.

The Chinese themselves are laughing their ass off : they already prefered capitalism long ago, only the Euros are still dwelling with socialism and communism. When will they get it ?

And for all Eurofiles that hope Europe will catch up with the USA one day : it ain't gonna happen. Europe has been losing economic/military/cultural/technological/... power constantly vs. the USA, and also vs. the entire rest of the world.

Look at Europe 100 years ago : it was the center of civilization. The rest of the world combined came not even close to their power; what's more, they occupied practically the entire world.

Then the USA came : all freedom loving Euros moved to America.

Then socialism came, out of the lesser brains that remained on the continent. The rest is history in the making...

I'm calling this the "Pee-Yoo" study because it doesn't headline the fact that the people who hate us the most are the unelected dictatorships (China, Pakistan), and the ones who like us the most are the newly-free countries striving for western-style capitalism (Poland, India). I'd rather align with people in free countries.

I could care less what the French think of us, and if you Germans want to cast your lot with the Chinese dictators, knock yourselves out.

BTW, it looks like the chickens have finally come home to roost in Germany and France. Congratulations, EuroSocialists. After years of ranting about "bloodsuckers" and "American capitalists" and "Anglo-Saxon liberalism", you have finally created the perfect firestorm.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/3d3c1b6a-e437-11d9-a754-00000e2511c8.html

Foreign investment in Germany and France plunges
By Christopher Swann in Washington
Published: June 23 2005 23:49

Foreign investment in France and Germany fell sharply in 2004, reinforcing concerns that inflexible labour practices and weak domestic demand are driving investors elsewhere.

In France, inward investment almost halved from $43bn (€35.44bn) to $24bn, according to figures released yesterday by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, the group representing the world’s most industrialised countries.

In Germany, foreign investors actually withdrew $39bn, having invested $27bn in 2003.

Thomas
Of course Europeans like China more, it's communist remember!

No, it's because we're pre-empting China's role as the next only super power. This is history in the making...

Steve,

Have to agree with your statement about not wanting to become another United States.

Germany and france and the other members of the chocolate sumit are all on the correct path.

Hang in there things are going to get better. That is what the spd promised in 2002 and they have.

@steve

No, it's because we're pre-empting China's role as the next only super power. This is history in the making...

So, in other words, Europe is preparing itself to become a vassal state of China.

China is on track to becoming a peer superpower to the US, as was the USSR. The key concern though is the path they will take getting there. In a mid to long-term economic sense, there is not much Europe has to offer China. Employees? No. Oil? No. Manufacturing capacity? No. Etc.

Europe's declining economic situation will be exacerbated by China's growth. European leaders - in their haste to kiss China's derriere - will allow China to suck the economic life-force out of the EU until it is dried up and China moves on. Over the next two decades, China will be the true 'capitalistic blood-sucker' of the world, not the US. I find the irony quite rich. That's why I laughed out loud at these poll results.

And regarding the latest 'popularity poll' fluff, I agree with Teddy Roosevelt:

"The World will never love America. We will be feared, respected, or loathed, but never loved. Let America be strong and respected."- President Theodore Roosevelt

James,

So, in other words, Europe is preparing itself to become a vassal state of China.

We already are becoming a vassal, and even more so the US. If it wasn't for China we would not be able to afford the lifestyle that we have today. We already owe them big time - billions and billions of dollars. We are becoming vassals of China as we speak. They're not invading us, of course. They're doing it the smart way.

@F15c

The fact that china will become (in many years) a strong economic power is in my opinion true.
However, let's look at some more realistic situations.
In 1980 Japan was to lead the world, we know what happened.
China has 1.3 Billion inhabitants. Their GDP is less than half of the US with 300 million inhabitants. Of course it will grow fast right now, they need to. Wait a few years or decades and the picture will be that increases in income and standard of living that automatically follows, which is inevitable will rtigger a relocation to another nation or continent producing for less. They then will be the beneficiaries of corporate investment to build inexpensively and the focus will shift.
Will China have to diversify or become specialized or even become a service oriented nation like the US, Possibly.
Old Europe is currently desperately hanging on to manufacturing instead of servicing. A decision, coupled with their decrease in population and a consistant lowering of productivity, a questionable undertaking. Of course there are so many factors that go into the equation, it would take too long to elaborate.

Europeans would prefer born-again, incestuous, Freon-farting, baby-eating cannibals to Americans, since our existence reminds them daily of their oh-so-shortcomings. As the great American philosopher Nelson Mundt says, "HA-ha." To that I can only add "Ha-ha."

If you take a closer look at the poll numbers, you see that 46% of the Germans have favorable views of China, which is slightly better than the US approval. But you will also see that 43% of the AMERICANS questioned have favorable views of China, which is only slightly less than the number of Americans with a favorable view of France.

americanbychoice, I was just thinking the same but you beat me to it. China's situation is far more precarious than Japan's was in 1989. They have an enormous asset bubble (think California real estate x4) and a banking system on the verge of collapse. What's worse, China doesn't have a democratic government. What's even worse is their dictatorship is rife with corruption from top-to-bottom. China is an extremely nationalistic country that is teetering on the abyss.

Japan has a democratic government with strong, relatively non-corrupt regulations, and they are STILL trying to escape a virtual depression 15 years after their bubble popped.

Things are going to go hell in a handbasket in China very soon. What this will mean to the rest of the world, who knows.

@Steve

I don't know if i understand you correctly, but it seams you say that with a kind of "hehe the only superpower will be the chinese, and certainly not the americans".

I disagree. OK China has more inhabitants. So does India. If the USA wanted more inhabitants, they could just open their frontiers. The whole of south america can't wait to move, and so do the chinese and Indians for that matter. The Europeans have already lost their society's cream by the tens of millions to the USA.

It's just hard, only the best can get in. That's a splendid policy : less people with more brains. That's the true power of the USA. I don't see smart africans moving to China very soon.

Of course, if China adopted real democracy and real capitalism, it could become the magnet the USA is. But i'm pretty sure that will never happen. China is, like Europe, not an immigrant society like the USA is. They can't just move from centuries of dictatorships to real freedom or any kind of new political system. They will always be, like europe, 'etatist'. And that's why they will always lose their best brains to the USA. They are stuck in a traditional, stagnant society like Europe, Egypt or Russia.

It's just cheap labour, nothing more. They don't complain like the Turkish. They don't have a temper like the arabs. They are not lazy like the Germans. They are just cheap and that's it. Good for us, they are working for a penny. But without the political freedom, they will never acquire real wealth.

It doesn't come down to the number of people. It comes down to the system you have. Until 20 years ago, the EU15 (they were not 15 then) had a larger GDP then the USA; that isn't the case anymore (with a lot more inhabitants).

To conclude : i don't think the american century was the previous one. It has just started; the concept of freedom is completely superior to that of any political ideology and it will never stop to be so !

@ Thomas

I agree. What is being overlooked is the fact that in the last 30 years the US has gone from 200 million to 300 million in population.
According to estimates, by 2035 the US will have grown to 500 million. That's ok.
However, we have to watch immigration. If for instance we let in the additional 200 million all at once, it would be such a drain on our infrastructure and economy that growth would be severely delayed for a decade.
Our present immigration quota is doing just fine.

How many of the Hun retire in Tibet versus Miami???????

When Germans get fed with such stories about the US again and again and again, how should they love or respect or understand the US? WAZ is a popular newspaper in the Ruhr area.

Why don't they report about a shitty story about China?


WAZ Exklusiv


"Der Regenbogen an sich und in der amerikanischen Kultur

Der Regenbogen ist eine farbenprächtige und faszinierende atmosphärische Erscheinung. Und weil die Menschen seit Jahrtausenden über dieses Naturphänomen staunen, haben sie ihm in vielen Kulturen eine ganz besondere Bedeutung gegeben. In der griechischen Mythologie zum Beispiel war er ein Kennzeichen der Götterbotin Iris. Sie stieg auf ihm zur Erde nieder. Die Inkas betrachteten den bunten Himmelsbogen als Gottheit. Und in der Bibel steht er als Symbol des alttestamentlichen Bundes zwischen Noah und Gott.

Ein vierjähriges Kindergarten-Kind in der amerikanischen Stadt Geneva im Bundesstaat New York hat jetzt einen Regenbogen gemalt, aber damit bei besorgten Eltern einen echten Kulturschock ausgelöst. Als sie die Zeichnung nämlich sahen, beschwerten sie sich umgehend bei der Kindergarten-Leitung. Denn sie kannten ganz offensichtlich nur die eine, zeitgenössische Bedeutung: Heute gilt der Regenbogen nämlich auch als Symbol der Homosexuellen-Szene.

Der Kindergarten reagierte schuldbewusst und entschuldigte sich bei den Eltern. Und damit kein Kindergarten-Kind jemals mehr in diesen religiös aufgeheizten amerikanischen Sphären einen Regenbogen naturgetreu aufs Papier bannen kann, kam der Kindergarten auf eine bahnbrechende Idee: Er begrenzte die Zahl der Farben bei den Stiften. Regenbogenfarben kommen jetzt erst gar nicht mehr vor." Angelika Wölk
24.06.2005

http://www.waz.de/waz/waz.standard.volltext.php?kennung=onspotwazBLFWelNational38525&zulieferer=waz&kategorie=BLF&rubrik=Welt&region=National&auftritt=WAZ&dbserver=1

Check out the photo Der Spiegel online chose to show of Prime Minister Tony Blair making his speech to the EU Parliament

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,484726,00.jpg

Naah, no bias there

@Americanbychoice: The population growth in the US is, incidentally, the biggest reason Kyoto is such a non-starter here - Kyoto's restrictions are per-country, not per-capita, and the US is the only country of any size in the "reductions list" to have big population growth. In the period from 1990 to 2010, the US will have added the entire population of France to itself, while Europe, Russia, and Japan's populations will be static to dropping. The US is one of the world's fastest growing countries, and could well hit 1 billion in population before the century is out.

Since the "Americans=evil greedy bastards who don't care about the environment" meme is one of the biggest reasons for anti-Americanism in the world, this point is far from trivial.

Heard a story on talk radio about a 15 year old boy from Bravaria who had his penis bitten off by a snapping turtle in a lake near his home.

Since the snapping turtle is a native of North America, I can just imagine the fun that the German anti American crowd is going to have, not to mention the Greens.

By the way, the rain bow story is a fake story. It was written as satire, but is now gosple on many Euro web sites.

@foobarista

Agree.
Kyoto is a tax distribution scheme and has absolutely nothing to do with cleaning the environment. Canada and guess who..........Germany are having sexcond thoughts about it now.
BTW the US senate rejected it 96-0 under the Clinton administration.

@Ray

Geez, guys not even a hat tip after I emailed you that article.

BTW, further discussion on the issue refined my thinking on the matter: the europeans are judging China against Myanmar, North Korea, etc., while they judge the US against some impossible ideal even they can't figure out (the EU consistution being batted about sometimes as forming a "United States of Europe"). The US falls far short of that ideal, whereas China compares favorably to it's peers.

It's sloppy thinking. As Warren Buffet (for whom I used to work) put it, "It is better to be approximately correct than precisely wrong."

In this case the Europeans have it precisely wrong. They have focussed on the differences between peers, not the absolute rankings among the total set.

As another comment put it, "When emotions enter the picture, facts go out the window." It's the same sort of thing.

They have focussed on the differences between peers, not the absolute rankings among the total set.

The liberal aversion to principle at work, I think - relativism at its finest. If you don't like the conclusions that analysis will provide, just juggle the premises until you do.

@doug

Is that the liberal aversion to principle at work, or the liberal aversion to work at principle?

It's really just sloppy thinking. There's some saying (from buhddism?) along the lines of, "The unexamined life is without meaning." The folks who rate China more favorably than the US are fairly meaningless, as they really haven't taken stock of their thinking in even the most cursory fashion.

Wouldn't it be just perfect if that saying were from China? I'm fairly sure it's a tenet of some Eastern philosophy or another.

americanbychoice, I agree with your analysis. Mine was grossly over-simple admittedly. China is becoming a significant importer of resources like oil, steel, and other basics of manufacturing, as well as the capital required to process those resources into product. Therefore, they compete with Europe, who as you stated have not modernized their economies, for said resources and capital. That is about the last thing Europe needs - another competetitor for resources and capital.

"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates actually.

Many teams make it to the big leagues. The hard part is maintaining it. The American economy was riding the bubble after WW2. Europe and Japan was in ruins. As soon as they were rebuilt America would be taken down a notch. Right. The USSR was going to bury the US. Right. The United States of Europe would be a balancing super-power. Right. So now you're down to the Chinese cast in the role of the cavalry. Kind of pathetic isn't it? Who next? Brasil? Tibet?

Europe just doesn't get it. You just don't understand it. You can dress in the proper clothes, drive the right cars, drink the right drinks, eat the right food, watch the same entertainment programs, but you'll just not get it. Something to look forward to: when you do get it, you'll be us. Smile.

Many in the world do get it. Some come here, some stay at home at work on making the world a better place. American's are born the world over. It just takes time for some to understand it. Others never will.

Close your eyes and think of what the 20th century would have been like without the US. Some of you will shake your heads and cringe. Other's won't. It's pretty easy to see it. Some just refuse. There was recently a disaster almost next door to China. Who helped? China or the US? Why did the US help? Why did the US rebuild Europe and Japan after the war?

It's been fun to watch the world grow up in the last 20 years. The growth is accelerating. Fortunately the "Americanization" of the world continues. Somebody has to lead. Better the US than the USSR. Or the Nationalist Socialist German's W.... Party. Funny the "Socialist" in there. The SPD has it too. ;)

Time will fix Europe.

Amihaser. Want me to make your day? Energy will continue to be the critical item in this century. The middle-east has had the oil but theirs is running out. What will we ever do?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shale_oil
"The United States Office of Naval Petroleum and Oil Shale Reserves estimates the world supply of oil shale at 1662 billion barrels of which 1200 billion barrels is in the United States."

The price of oil is nearing the point where it's going to be cost effective to use it. 1200 billion barrels. From the world total of 1662.

http://www.worldenergy.org/wec-geis/publications/reports/ser/shale/shale.asp
Notice anything funny?
China doesn't have much.
Neither does Europe.
The US does. Most of it. Australia and Jordan have most of the rest.

Welcome to the future.

I think this German tendancy towards China lies deep in the race-mind. Having failed to procreate, the Hun are irresistibly drawn to their ancestral home to spawn. The Hun and the Han can have each other. Another John for Germany. Germany so horny, Germany show you good time. The Alps will remind the Chinese of Tibet.

Perhaps the Chinese and Muslims can arm wrestle over Western European "lebensraum".

Seriously though, the globophobic pre-industrial Left is scared witless that China and India become consumerist nations. I think China will peak out and stall but India is another story. It's always that Aryan diaspera that comes back to bite Germany in the ass.

China's exporting oil, most think the US' books are bad, but China's? Please. And I thought I just read there's a steel glut?

They could even possibly break up into smaller countries in the future.

@Del: if the globophobic Left is scared witless about China and India being consumerist nations, their wits have left the building! Anyone who's ever lived in Beijing or Shanghai knows that few are more avaricious than newly-rich Chinese, who are discovering the joys of credit cards and mortgages for the first time in history. And for those who dream about Maoist bike-peddlers sacrificing for The People, think again: Mitsubishi SUVs and Buicks are the rage in Shanghai these days; everyone wants a car big enough to haul the in-laws and kids around in, and China is the world's largest consumer of almost everything high-end nowadays.

As for India, it ain't the days of Gandhi and Nehru anymore. Many Indians consider themselves to be at least provisional members of the Anglosphere, and India could well be the world's largest English-speaking country in a decade or two - followed by China. Whazhername Roy is popular with self-hating Eurosocialists and Guardianistas, but back home, Indians contemplate Warren Buffett and Bill Gates, while admiring the legions of Indian millionaire tech-entrepreneurs in the US and India.

If you were a young, ambitious Indian or Chinese, which looks better to you: Eurofrance, or the Anglosphere? "Social Models" where people fight for the right to be cozy, or hard-charging, world-beating capitalism? Precautionary Principle paranoia or hope for the future? Not many will opt for the socialists...

@ Foobarista, You've got it right. And when a few hundred million Dalits realize they don't have to endure a multitude of incarnations without flush toilets, it'll all hit the fan. I beleave it was Madrid of Mexico that said the anti-globalization movement "wants to save the developing world from developement".

The Socialists just don't want the competition. If China's new found affluence and appetite for chicken feet can raise the price of pet food one can only imagine. The Left had best grasp their espressos with two hands. "Fear not the tiger of the north but the rooster of the south" (Chinese proverb). To Europe I'd say the US is the tiger, India and china are the rooster. Be afraid, be very afraid.

@Foobarista

You've got it even more right than you know: the one country that listed the US as the "land of opportunity" in the Pew report above all others was India. They also picked the US by the highest margin of any destination: 38%. The other countries' selections were all around 20%.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=801

Indians are beginning to make their mark on the US - Bobby Jindahl - Louisiana. They've surpassed the "Asians" in wealth and smarts.

Indians are also highly prevalent in venture capital in the US. I am founder of an early stage technology start up and it has amazed me how many partners and board members are Indian. They are very disproportionately represented in that area.

I was looking for a nice play in Italy and found "Stop Bush" on this Toskana website:


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mail: info@toscana-online.de

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It's easy to criticize the Europeans for their mistakes. Yes, it is a problem that we seem to be blind for China's, Iran's or whoever's crimes. But don't pretend that the US is different in that concern. The US might not be blind when it comes to the mentioned countries but was the US a non-democratic country when they supported Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran?

I guess there might be many other examples both for Germany (or any other European country) and for the US. So don't be hypocrates. Tell the whole truth not just the parts you like, especially if you want to criticize others for hiding parts of the truth!

Stop Bush? From doing what, precisely?

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