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Jason - thanks for the confirmation - you are indeed a juvenile without the slightest clue of the world beyond your "BusHitlerchimpyMcHalliburton" caricatures

When I was a teenager I am glad I was never as naive as you seem to be

Go and wait on line for the new Star Wars film now - thats about as complex a reality you are capable of dealing with it would seem


Helian,

You may be right. Lehming may be another Scholl-LaTour. Like I said, I don't know his work and I'm not trying to defend him.

I do think, though that even some of the examples you cite seem to be pretty even keeled. For instance, I'd say that “Der Glaube an Gott und das Familienglück ist mächtiger als die tägliche Mühsal,” is true. Personally, I'd take it as a compliment.

You also cite, “Amerikas Rechte setzt bis heute die Themen und bestimmt den Ton. Das intellektuelle Potenzial etwa der Neokonservativen ist hoch. Die Liberalen wirken vergleichsweise uninspiriert und uninspirierend.” Unless a conservative's feeling paranoid, what's to argue in that statement. It should make him feel good and a liberal feel chastened.

You attribute the above to ". . . an increasing number of Americans have grown tired of being dismissed as morally bankrupt or incorrigibly stupid every time they dared to think freely or question some sacred cow . . ." Your point is that these sacred cows, and the associated dismissiveness, exist on the left. I'd counter that it doesn't take too long to find plenty of exactly the same kind of dismissiveness coming from the right. And a mad rush to victimhood isn't particularly appealing on either side.

Anyway, I'm not out to fisk the all the quotes you picked out or quibble over every point. It does seem, however, that your conclusion (that Lehming, most of Germany and, indeed, the entire 'left' are beneath contempt) is presupposing your evidence.

Cheers,

Why thanks Niko - I am indeed a really nice person :)

Niko wrote "Most germans do see americans as friends and are very close to them. Would you feel more concerned if your friend commited a crime or somebody else you don't really know?"


I'd be more concerned if my "friend" spent most of his time ratting me out for not paying my parking tickets while ignoring the gang of rapists in the park because "thats the way they are"

@Niko

>>Most germans do see americans as friends and are very close to them. Would you feel more concerned if your friend commited a crime or somebody else you don't really konw?

Lately Germany has been warming up to Russia, but Germans (particularly those in the media) don't ever seem to get around to criticizing their new friends' atrocities in Chechnya or their suppression of free speech or their attempt to prevent democratization of ex-Soviet states.

Given the outcry of Abu Ghraib, one would think that Germans would be in an uproar over their Russian friends' tactics in the Caucasus. Instead all one hears of Russia is praise for Putin signing--in bad faith, I might add--the Kyoto Protocol.

@ Jason:

It is pretty hard to hold a discussion with you because every posting you make is filled with misrepresentations that have to be clarified each time.

OK, let's start with your mistakes:

"So don't try and say a 25,000 dollar cheque proves a relationship with Al Qaeda.

I never said it did. I asked whether this was a form of terrorism or not. Clearly, it is. As far as Saudi Arabia goes, no one condones any support or toleration of terror from any government. But if you have been paying attention recently, the Saudis have been capturing and killing an awful lot of Al-Qaeda people. Does that mean Saudi Arabia is now perfect and can no longer improve? No.

"I guess to prove the existence of terrorism, there has to be another 9/11. And once an Al Qaeda member is executed, there is no one else in the Islamic world to take his place. And the many, many attacks taking place in Iraq (today, 61 people have been killed) are not the work of terrorists, they are obviously the work of Saddam supporters.

When did I ever say the lack of another 9/11 proves there is no terrorism? Why do you continue to insist on putting words into my mouth? I simply said it suggest we must be doing something right. As far as Iraq goes, of course there is still terror taking place there. But there is no longer a terrorist state in place capable of mass genocide. The people killing in Iraq are both former Saddamites and Islamo-nuts who won't hesitate to kill innocent civilians. What is your point Jason? Are you trying to say that we are failing and should stop fighting simply because there are some terrorists still out there murdering people? Where is your evidence that things are worse?

"This approach, supporting someone simply because you share a common enemy

So let me ask you something Jason: Was it wrong for the United States to support Stalin in World War II against Hitler? Stalin was the biggest mass-murderer in history. I'd be interested in your answer to that one since you seem to know everything.

---Ray D.

Ray - Jason will not answer your question

I predict he will now bring up Pinochet ;)

--Or being one of the only developed nations that does not want to abandon land mines. Or going against a signed treaty by developing a nuclear weapons shield. Or being the largest polluter on Earth and not wanting to sign enviornmental treaty, thinking it will harm the US economy, but to hell with the economies of those that take part in the treaty. Or setting up illegal imported steel tariffs, repealin them only after the EU threatens sanctions. Or having prisoners held indefinitely, without any resemblance of a trial, in Guanatanamo. --

Ahhh, the laundry list.

Land mines? Everyone's using ours? Did you see what advances we're making???

Which treaty was that, the one w/the country which no longer exists? If I sign a contract w/a company and that company goes bankrupt, am I still required to follow the terms?

We are not the largest polluter on earth. Gives China a pass, hmmm, haven't you ever followed the yearly black cloud from China over the Pacific?

Kyoto's dead, the formula the experts relied on was fatally flawed, China, India and America are choosing to tackle pollution a different way. What do China and India know that you don't??? And considering our air is getting so clean we're allowing more sun to hit America which will increase skin cancer....

And you might be interested in this:

Kyoto Protocol--Propaganda or Censorship?
by Garth Pritchard, Canadafreepress.com
Saturday, May 7, 2005

SNIP

...Then I found out what their documentary was about. The story was incredible: it documented scientists--from Canada--speaking out against the $10-billion scam known as the Kyoto Protocol.

Yes, the very same Kyoto Accord that our government has committed Canada and Canadians to support.

I understood instinctively that getting two scientists to agree at what time the sun is coming up tomorrow is--at best--difficult.
But here were tens of thousands, from around the world, all agreeing on one issue: that there is no scientific evidence of man-made global warming.

The numbers of scientists staggered me--17,100 basic and applied American scientists, two thirds with advanced degrees, are against the Kyoto Agreement. The Heidelberg Appeal--which states that there is no scientific evidence for man-made global warming, has been signed by over 4,000 scientists from around the world since the petition’’s inception. I strongly questioned these high numbers, since I’’ve had benefit of the Canadian government’’s public relations machine on this issue. Dr. Leahey has since sent documentation to back his figures up....


I didn't like the tariffs either, but if you want to talk protectionism, there's stats for that, too.


As to being held indefinitely, Spain's holding the 3-11 guys incommunicado for about 4 years w/no lawyers, and better check out how frogistan also handles matters.

Welcome to the blogosphere, Jason, you're about to learn a lot. The question is, do you learn or stick your fingers in your ears while singing la-la-la?

-- I guess now YOU don't count Iraqi deaths as being caused by terrorism.--

Why don't you ask the Iraqis, Jason??

There's a lot of Iraqi bloggers out there, go to the source.

-- love this argument Americans always give when someone mentions that the HealthCare system in the US stinks, and that there are millions of Americans living below the poverty line, and that only sons of doctors can afford to study medicine anyways. I don't expect the state teat to do anything except provide assistance and keep me off the streets if I happend to lose my job. Here is an excellent example of American taking care of the citizens who it loves the most (after the rich), it's soldiers:

http://todaysseniorsnetwork.com/no_coverage.htm

---

If Sweden were a state it would be 49, so where does that put Germany?

You want to talk US HC, I'm game.

BTW, Seniors are the richest group of Americans.

And US poor are living 70s middle-class lifestyles.

Ray D.

When did this become the "Jason" Weblog?
Just asking because there is a lot of heat and very little light in most of these comments.

Speaking of Kyoto:

...The policy of phasing out nuclear energy is still subject to debate, however. Industry and political opposition want it to be reviewed but the government is standing firm by the 2000 decision.

Baden-Württemberg relies on nuclear energy for 55 percent of its electricity. Replacing lost local nuclear power with imported nuclear power from France or restarting idled coal plants does not make sense, especially if Germany wants to meet climate protection targets, B-W Environment Minister Tanja Gönner said....

---

Jason, you haven't been over at Bros. Judd, have you?

SPOD - wait until he discovers Rantburg. The spittle will really fly.

niko,

Gee, now I know what you did with your UN oil voucher. You went out and fried your brain on something.

There is a saying here, with friends like that who needs enemies. france has been like that for some time now. It appears Germany is following the french lead.

There is nothing that I have seen in the past 18 months that would cause me to believe your statement on viewpoints other than relationships between the US and Germany continue to detoriate.

Your stated viewpoint is surely not one shared by your elites be they in government, academia or the M$M.

Personally, I like the comments section spicy. I'm a big fan of free speech. But, Ray can run his blog as he see's fit.

@Jason: "He [Schroeder}should have rather manipulated his people, saying there were WMDs so people would think the Iraq War was a war on terror, (Al Qaeda - Saddam wet dream)."

It's probably a waste of time to try to inform Jason, but what the heck, I'm an optimistic guy.

Jason, the BND along with Mubarak, the Egyptian President, King Abdullah II of Jordan, President Clinton and every intelligence service on the planet were convinced that Saddam had WMD ready to use. We have had reports of Saddam using the Russian Spetnaz of moving WMD through Syrian to Lebanon in the long, slow runup to the war. If you are a person of goodwill, Jason, and you want to understand the real happenings in the world, I'll explain it to you. If you want to be a snotty besserwisser, you can be that too. It's your choice.

From the time Saddam took power, he's been after WMD. In the 80's Saddam used nerve gas on Kurdish villagers and he used chemicals and nerve gas in his war against Iran. During the same time, he had a nuclear weapons program, which apparently was very close to building atomic bombs before he invaded Kuwait and was thrown out 7 months later. After the Gulf War, Saddam was forced to destroy the WMD the world knew about. Several years later, his son-in-law defected to Jordan and talked to the (evil, spit) CIA, whom he told about completely unknown WMD programs. He was then forced to give those up. The entire time, Saddam was trying to keep his programs going on a skeleton basis, while he tried to get the UN sanctions lifted and used Oil for Food money to pay for his programs, palaces and to pay his killers to keep Iraqis terrified. Oh, he also used Oil for Food money, money intended to feed starving children to bribe Russia and France and Germany to stop the US-war on Iraq. Funny how this doesn't make it into your comments or into the German media.

All the world's intelligence services, including those of Iraq's Arab neighbors were convinced that Saddam had WMD. Why did they think that? One reason is that Saddam kept all the strings of his WMD programs in his own hands and only he knew the whole story. His aides would know part of the picture, but not all of it. For an intelligence agency to find out, they would have to penetrate into the top 20 of Saddam's regime. Those guys knew that if they got caught, not only would they be killed, their family would be killed and possibly their entire clan would be killed. Saddam also ran an active disinformation campaign to tell everyone he had WMD. Why would he do that? One reason, is that's what he used to keep Iraqis in line and used it to threaten Arab neighbors, the US and the British.

It is childish to go on whining about WMD and how that 'Bush lied' and it was all some type of conspiracy and the Americans are stupid and trying to pull something over on the German people, blah, blah, blah.

On to the Al Qaeda-Saddam connection and I pass on some unpleasant to you facts. Bin Laden and Saddam organizations have been in contact with one another since the early 90's. It's debatable how far this contacts went or whether they lead to terrorists acts. We do know that Ansar al-Islam was allowed an enclave in the Kurdish area of the country by Saddam and that this group was al Qaeda and was researching chemical weapons and was connected to ricin and to planned attacks in Rome and in London. Zarqawi was put in charge of this group and he was there and in Baghdad in the Fall of 2002.

During that long, slow run up to the war, Saddam spent two months and had his intelligence officers trained in guerilla war. Bin Laden came out and called for alliance with Saddam before the war. After his defeat, the Saddam's Baathist killers and Zarqawi have been committing mass murders on an almost daily basis, which apparently you, Jason, don't care about. Zarqawi and Saddam's Baathist killers have been in alliance succeeding mostly in murdering innocent Iraqis. They've gotten their asses kicked by the US Army and Marines, when they've been dumb enough to stand and fight. In fact, right now, the Marines are killing dozens of terrorists (reportedly including Zarqawi) in the north of Iraq around the town of Husaybah in Operation Matador.

The world, including Germany, where a big part of the 9/11 attack was planned by the way, are faced with the difficult problem of answering the global jihad of radical Islamists. 9/11 proved for any reasonable person that there was no limit to the terrorism that would be committed by Bin Laden and his ilk. The only thing that limits their desire to kill is their capability. So, it is not possible anymore to allow these terrorist groups to have safe havens in countries like Afghanistan and Iraq. It's not possible to allow regimes to exist, which support the terrorists and could give them WMD including atomic bombs.

Jason, you can sit at your desk and snort, point fingers, pat yourself on the back for your supposed moral superiority and besserwisserei, but you might as well just spend your time looking for porn on the internet. Both will have the same effect, none. Or can inform yourself, help inform others and help you and your Landsmen come to a understanding of the world as it is and how to get it to a better place. Jason, it's your choice, be responsible or be a creep.

Excellent answers, all of you, on the extrordinary rendition. Or should I stop talking about it, because, just like WMDs, it is SOOO 2 years ago?

@Sandy

Seniors are the richest group in the USA.

Excellent argument. Seniors are the richest group, so the millions of Vietnams Vets withouth any form of health insurance dont count. I'm sorry, I should look the other way, where you're pointing. Thank god Americans don't run Europe.

@James

The US is also the largest exporter of medical equipment, pharmaceuticals, machines, etc. What's your point

Again, excellent argument. This makes being the largest weapons exporter alright. And by the way, according to the WTO, last year, the largest exporter of goods, by monetary value, on this planet, was Germany. Ahead of the US, Japan, and China.

@ ray D

Yes, I am suggesting the US is not doing a good job, and you always say ask the Iraqi's. Which one should I ask, the one with the blog, or the one of the 61 who died in the terrorist attack yesterday?

By the way, Chalabi is now Oil Minister. Who would have thought???? And on your question about whether supporting Stalin was a mistake, the I say the mistake was not taking him down after. And if you tie it in with the Iraq War, then I will just say that the reason for opposing the War is that it is obvious Bush manipulated the public on that. Coming after Sep 11th, after Afghanistan, he should have said, we are now taking a hiatus from the War on terror. Unlike the Taliban which had close ties with Al Qaeda and the terrorists who sturck us, we are going to go free a nation. This will do nothing to make us, or the World, safer from terrorists. But I will try to make it seems like it does, by stating clearly that there are links between Al-Qaeda and Saddam. We will not go after the terrorist infrastructure, in Saudi, in Africa, in Indonesia, in Pakistan. We will be removing a leader who had nothing to do with 9/11. But i am using 9/11 as a backdrop, saying that if we do not remove Saddam, there will be another 9/11. Or no, wait, we are freeing a people.

Next, you always mention the Berlin Blockade and the food drops for which Germans should be thankful. This occured during the Kennedy administration, not the Bush administration. Kennedy was opposed to a US War then, and would most likely be opposed to one now. So there probably wouldn't be much to argue about.

"I simply said it suggest we must be doing something right"

So as long as there is no 9/11 there must be some decrease in terrorism. Forget about the terror in Suadi, the Madrid bombings, the Iraq bombings. These are all excellent signs of terror capacity being reduced.

@ Sandy

Kyota is a farce? Now you wouldn't just be saying that because the US didn't sign it would you? Obvioulsy it doesn't help. Germany is taking on extra costs to comply because it likes wasting money. It wants its businesses to suffer from higher operating costs. What about increased CAFE standards. Another farce. The nations on board with Kyoto won't have to spend money upgrading, only the US will suffer if it complies. And India and China aren't doing it. Look, if they do it, why can't we. (If thats the game we're playing....)

And US poor are living middle calss lifestyles????

There are 35.9 million Americans living in poverty. The defnition is an individual who earns $9,393. Do the Math

"And considering our air is getting so clean we're allowing more sun to hit America which will increase skin cancer...."

I hope this was a joke. This IS a joke right? If not, I'm sorry I read any of your comments.

Again, GREAT comebacks on Panama and Extraordinary Rendition. I know torture is okay if you really really want to do it.

"The world, including Germany, where a big part of the 9/11 attack was planned by the way"

and your point is????

Perhaps you should be better informed, Jabba. Perhaps you need to tune in to a non-American news channel. Or did you just forget to mention this:

Saddam had no atomic bombs. Pakistan, an Islamic dictatorship, DOES have atomic bombs. A new report from the Central Intelligence Agency says the arms trafficking network led by the Pakistani scientist A. Q. Khan provided Iran's nuclear program with "significant assistance," including the designs for "advanced and efficient" weapons components. This was in 2004. The PAkistani dictator has pardoned Khan. The US has taken no action, NONE, against pakistan or the scientist.

"The world, including Germany, where a big part of the 9/11 attack was planned by the way, are faced with the difficult problem of answering the global jihad of radical Islamists. 9/11 proved for any reasonable person that there was no limit to the terrorism that would be committed by Bin Laden and his ilk. The only thing that limits their desire to kill is their capability. So, it is not possible anymore to allow these terrorist groups to have safe havens in countries like Afghanistan and Iraq. It's not possible to allow regimes to exist, which support the terrorists and could give them WMD including atomic bombs.

Jason, you can sit at your desk and snort, point fingers, pat yourself on the back for your supposed moral superiority and besserwisserei, but you might as well just spend your time looking for porn on the internet. Both will have the same effect, none. Or can inform yourself, help inform others and help you and your Landsmen come to a understanding of the world as it is and how to get it to a better place. Jason, it's your choice, be responsible or be a creep."

Im afraid that the US isn't doing what you say it is, Jaba. Nuclear proliferation is occuring, and that too to a Government that is radical and extreme, and the US takes no action. In fact, Pakistan is still considered an ally. So don't lecture us on making the world a better place while you ally yourself with a nation that deal nuclear tech.

Waiting for a reply, Jaba.

@Jason

“Next, you always mention the Berlin Blockade and the food drops for which Germans should be thankful. This occured during the Kennedy administration, not the Bush administration. Kennedy was opposed to a US War then, and would most likely be opposed to one now. So there probably wouldn't be much to argue about.”

Well, at least we know we’re dealing with someone with a profound knowledge of history. Then again, Truman was a dead ringer for Kennedy.

“And on your question about whether supporting Stalin was a mistake, the I say the mistake was not taking him down after.”

Right, Jason, we should have just taken him down. You’re a good parrot when it comes to spewing out the latest anti-American propaganda lines, but scratch the surface on any single issue, and we see how half-baked your opinions really are. You might try reading, say, Forrestal’s memoirs. You’ll find there wasn’t even a remote chance we could have stood toe to toe with the Soviets in a conventional war after WWII. Not only would we have been swept out of Europe in a few months, the American people were tired of war and would never have gone along. The alternative would have been to take him out with nuclear weapons, but you would have been opposed to that, too, right Jason? At least that’s what we can gather from your similarly half-baked comments about the nuclear attacks on Japan.

Let’s just focus on one point, shall we? We already know you can dutifully spew out propaganda lines on demand, so let’s just zero in on one issue. Let’s take Kyoto. You seem really upset that we didn’t sign. Tell me, Jason, how do you justify asking the U.S. to sign a treaty according to which only its citizens would have to suffer serious job losses and economic dislocation. Is that what you consider “fair?” The Kyoto standards were set in 1990. In the ensuing decade, the U.S. far outpaced the lame economic growth in Europe. Europeans were able to take advantage of vast new sources of natural gas from the North Sea and the states of the former Soviet Union, a source of energy producing half the greenhouse gases of coal. No similar new sources were available to the US. Perhaps most importantly, European states, and, in particular, Germany, got a greenhouse windfall by “virtuously” shutting down failed, unprofitable, and highly polluting industries from the former Communist states of eastern Europe. No similar “easy way out” was open to the US. If this was environmentally “virtuous” then we should be falling all over ourselves to praise Russia, which cut its greenhouse emissions by 30% in the same period using similar measures, and absolutely deifying Ukraine, which cut its emissions by a whopping 40%. Are you suggesting, then, Jason, that, in spite of these three major European windfalls, that Europe should have been unwilling to even discuss adjustments to Kyoto with the US? In essence, that’s what happened. Take Germany, for example. If you think Schroeder would have put a significant number of German jobs at risk to meet the Kyoto goals, you are sadly mistaken. Clinton was desperate to rescue something from the Kyoto negotiations, and, knowing that the US Senate was in no mood to sign a treaty that would demand sacrifices only of US workers, sent his best negotiators to work out some kind of a deal. Germany, treating Kyoto as a hoax all along, never negotiated in good faith in return. They sent Trittin to lead their negotiating team, a clown who has never been entrusted with any significant decision making power by the German government, but who has always been very good at coming up with propaganda zingers. The result is history. Since it was signed, Kyoto has done nothing to significantly alter the production of greenhouse gases, but has been a very effective generator of hot air in the form of European propaganda. What European country has made significant job sacrifices to comply? What European country has done anything whatsoever that goes beyond the scope of a publicity stunt? Meanwhile, the ever brilliant German “Greens” are doing their best to combat greenhouse gases by shutting down all Germany’s nuclear power plants. What morons!

OK, Jason, the ball’s in your court. How do you justify Europe’s refusal to budge on the emissions goals in light of the three major windfalls cited above. How do you justify its failure to bargain in good faith. What scientific basis do you have for believing that Kyoto will do anything whatsoever of benefit to the environment, or to the welfare of human beings. We’re waiting.

Re: Kyoto

One thing the US pushed for during the negotiation was the ability to trade emmssion credits, which at the time, the Euros were opposed to. Today, those same Euros are no longer opposed to trading them...

-- Pakistan is still considered an ally. So don't lecture us on making the world a better place while you ally yourself with a nation that deal nuclear tech.

I hope you keep that in mind when your country deals w/Brazil and China.

--And US poor are living middle calss lifestyles????

There are 35.9 million Americans living in poverty. The defnition is an individual who earns $9,393. Do the Math

"Living" on $9K a year, you sure about that? Have you included Section 8 (housing), food stamps, EITC, TANF, Medicaid/Medicare, WIC, SSI and all the other programs available? Food stamp qualification alone is an income up to $40K, IIRC. "Entitlements" in the USA are more than we spend on the military, so I respectfully suggest you do your math or review the 2000 census.

"And considering our air is getting so clean we're allowing more sun to hit America which will increase skin cancer...."

I hope this was a joke. This IS a joke right? If not, I'm sorry I read any of your comments.

No joke, Sparky, that was this week's news. Air is also getting cleaner in Europe, BTW. The cleaner air is changing the sun's reflectivity which could cause global warming. Whassamatter, your talking heads don't feel that's important for the peons to know?

This week's Science Mag, bugmenot might get you past registration:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/308/5723/806

As to Kyoto and China and India, why should the 2 up-and-comers w/ over 1 billion people each --

1/3 of the world's population ---

be exempt? Why would it have been a burden for them to fit their plants w/pollution-control tech? It is interesting that they are now going to try and be brought into Kyoto.

The US asked for 2 main things, China and India also be included in Kyoto and carbon trading. If *the world* really wanted US to sign, why wouldn't they accept these requests, especially now since they are working on them? It's not about global warming, it's about tying US down.

--Again, GREAT comebacks on Panama and Extraordinary Rendition. I know torture is okay if you really really want to do it.--

Define "torture."

Some of that westerners pay good money for.

As to Germany sinking more money down the Kyoto sinkhole, well, they have to prove that they're right.

BTW, ever hear of Tech Central Station? Very informative site.

http://techcentralstation.com/121704G.html

The Kyoto Protocol is Dead

The Kyoto Protocol is dead -- there will be no further global treaties that set binding limits on the emissions of greenhouse gases (GHG) after Kyoto runs out in 2012.

SNIP

The conventional wisdom that it's the United States against the rest of the world in climate change diplomacy has been turned on its head. Instead it turns out that it is the Europeans who are isolated. China, India, and most of the rest of the developing countries have joined forces with the United States to completely reject the idea of future binding GHG emission limits. At the conference here in Buenos Aires, Italy shocked its fellow European Union members when it called for an end to the Kyoto Protocol in 2012. These countries recognize that stringent emission limits would be huge barriers to their economic growth and future development.

SNIP

You're coming to your first lalala v. learning moment, Jason.

Like I said, glad you're in the blogosphere, we all will learn a lot.

Sandy,

Cannot figure out if Jason is preping for the Democratic Underground or has been banned from their site as his views are not extreme enough to post there.

Do happen to know which one it is? Maybe we could email the webmaster there and in the name of "social justice" get him on board.

He would fit right in.

The comment with the Berlin blockade was not me. Someone is trying to use my name. How typical of you right wingnuts. Ray D can check if it was the same person, but i am sure he will not.

It seems when someone criticises you, you either curse at them, or steal their name and try to make them look like an idiot. It is obvious that all you want is zombie type yes men to be the only contirbutors on this board.

Try to?

@ Sandy

"I hope you keep that in mind when your country deals w/Brazil and China"

Very good Sandy. Perhaps you did not read Jaba's passage. I suggest you go back and read it.

You cannot attack a country in the name of World Security, and then consider an ally a country which supplies nuclear tech to a radical Islamic govt. Sorry, one can't do both. If any of you have any comments, please "let it rip"

Why do you all keep feeding the high school troll?

His is the standard "BusHitlerchimpyMcHalliburton" repitition - he never answers any questions ( not even about age, place of residence, etc ) and frankly doesn't have a clue beyond whatever was in F-911

I wouldn't waste any time really

I've never considered Russia an ally.

Nor frogistan.

So, did you read the Kyoto links, Jason?

Or is Scientist mag a RW propaganda rag?

As I suggested, read the brouhaha about the hockeystick computation.

@Jason..
you cant be a 'friedensmacht' and then want to sell arms to the worlds most brutal regime.
man I suggest everyone ignore Jason.

I have never seen F 911. Michael Moore is a dumbass. Anyways, he doesn't mention the Pakistan nuclear issue (I think).

I suggest eveybody ignore me, when you can't answer my questions.

@amiexpat:

At least the friedensmacht doesn't attack countries under the false pretense of peace, while allying itself with rogue nuclear states, that sell secrets to other rogue nuclear states. I ask you this: how long before would Saddam have been terminated had he had nukes, and then on top of that GAVE the tech to Iran?

And again, everyone, excellent job on the great Presidential Policy of extraordinary rendition. "God is on our side" my ass, you hypocritical torturing retard.

Again, define torture.

We cannot discuss unless we start on the same page and agree to the same terms.

As to the name-calling, well, stick and stones.

If the Left actually grew a pair, they might win the WH.

"Jason" wrote:

****Kennedy was opposed to a US War then, and would most likely be opposed to one now. So there probably wouldn't be much to argue about***

Response: I love the rosey picture of Kennedy the average German is programmed with from their vile MSM. Aside from supporting the Bay of Pigs debacle and coming close to setting off world war III during the Cuban Missile Crisis, I take it you also wouldn't argue about his escalation of American involvement in Vietnam? Or were you in favor of that particular intervention?

You're a good argument for more competition and innovation in Germany's backward secondary education system...Yeah, the same system that doesn't manage to produce one institution worthy of even appearing in any international rankings. Sorry for that barb, but I couldn't resist.

@ Commenters:

I will only tolerate the name calling for so long. An occasional jab or two is alright, but it is starting to become a pattern and enough is enough. It IS possible to have a heated debate on the issues without resorting to repeatedly calling names over and over again. I will start deleting comments if it continues. That goes for everyone.

As far as people using the same name goes, if I see it in here I will delete it. If you have the same first name as someone else in here, please use an initial from your last name so that we can all tell the difference.

@ Jason:

The fact that you are able to come in here and argue on and on ought to tell you that your claim that we only have like-minded people in here is just plain wrong. So show us a minimum of respect and keep it civil. We appreciate a hot debate, but we also appreciate those who can avoid constant and repeated insults.

---Ray D.

@ Ray D.

I was referring to Pres. Bush. I never insulted anyone on this board. And if all the others are allowed to call Schroeder or others losers, then I can do the same for Bush. Since you said this applies for everyone though, I will stop.

"You're a good argument for more competition and innovation in Germany's backward secondary education system...Yeah, the same system that doesn't manage to produce one institution worthy of even appearing in any international rankings. Sorry for that barb, but I couldn't resist."

I guess for you competition and innovation means increasing the fees by a factor of 900, or even more. And the system that you criticise produces all the German engineers, scientists, etc.

Engineers at firms such as Bosch, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Siemens (which built the worlds fastest train in China), and many others. Germany is know for machining, metals, and mechanincs. These institution seem to satisfy the requirement of these world-class firms for world class engineers.

Didn't mean to be act like a schoolkid, but "she started it."

"Why do you all keep feeding the high school troll?

His is the standard "BusHitlerchimpyMcHalliburton" repitition - he never answers any questions ( not even about age, place of residence, etc ) and frankly doesn't have a clue beyond whatever was in F-911

I wouldn't waste any time really"

If this is meant serious, it is the weirdest thing I've ever read on this blog.
And discriminating people because of their age is...

Jason, don't you know that the quality of the workforce has NOTHING to do with the quality of the Universities in a country

d

@Jason: Well, I see you can't answer any of my points and change the subject. Basically, that proves you're here to attempt to make cheap points and not inform yourself or others. Ask yourself, why do you do this? What's the point? Don't you have anything better to do?

Jason writes: "Im afraid that the US isn't doing what you say it is, Jaba."

Be specific, what did I say that the US was doing that it really isn't doing?

Jason writes: "Nuclear proliferation is occuring, and that too to a Government that is radical and extreme, and the US takes no action."

What country are you talking about and what action by the US would you support and what is Germany doing?

"In fact, Pakistan is still considered an ally. So don't lecture us on making the world a better place while you ally yourself with a nation that deal nuclear tech."

Jason, the world is complicated. You have to deal with it as it is. Pakistan is part ally and part enemy. The US cooperates where it can and pressures Pakistan to move in the right direction. By helping the US, President [military dictator] Musharif put his own life directly in danger. The al Qaeda (#3 guy) organizer of two assassination attempts on Musharif was just captured.

Jason, here's where you really go off the rails, to make a cheap point. So, because the US didn't know and ignored what it did know about A Q Khan, then the US + Germany shouldn't try to make the world a better place? Perhaps the US should join A Q Khan and sell nuclear technology to everyone we can. We should help the Iranians, North Koreans, South Ossetians build the bomb. Where's the logic in this? Jason, lashing out, pointing fingers, shouting hypocrisy, stamping your feet is no way to go through life. Someone has to tell you this and I'm not the only one noticing how you behave.

“Next, you always mention the Berlin Blockade and the food drops for which Germans should be thankful. This occured during the Kennedy administration, not the Bush administration. Kennedy was opposed to a US War then, and would most likely be opposed to one now. So there probably wouldn't be much to argue about.”

I don't know who made the original comment, but the Berlin Blockade was during the Truman Administration, a Democratic administration. Truman also launched American participation in the Korean War and btw ordered the atomic bombs dropped on Japan.

Kennedy continued and escalated American support for South Vietnam. He sent the first combat advisors to help the South Vietnamese defend themselves from attack by the North. Kennedy attacked then Vice President Nixon during the televised debates for having created a 'missile gap', allowing the Soviets to get ahead in the missile race. Kennedy was a tough guy Democrat, who famously said in his inaugaral address: "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."

Kennedy also pushed through the first federal tax cuts in 30 years, similar to Reagan's tax cuts 20 years later and much bigger than Bush's tax cuts 20 years after that. The idea that JFK was like today's Democrats or Schroeder's SPD is a delusion. JFK was more like Reagan and Bush, than anyone else.

Here are a couple other lines from JFK's inaugaral speech, which proves he was a rightwing Christian fundamentalist along the lines of Dubya:

"the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God."

"With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own."

http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres56.html

Man, what an outrage, wanting to do God's work here on earth. What a religious nut.

@Jason

"Kyota is a farce? Now you wouldn't just be saying that because the US didn't sign it would you?"

Was that also posted by another Jason, Jason? I and others have posted extensive replies to your comments on Kyoto. Where is your response? If we don't see one, I think we will be justified in assuming that you are not interested in an honest debate, but are simply here to repeat propaganda themes.

So, Jaba, the US invades, pre-emptively, Iraq for possibly having WMDs, but Pakistan DOES give NUCLEAR tech to IRAN, one of the most radical Islamic nations, and nothing happens.

I guess its cause the world is complicated. That explains it. Sometimes you launch a full scale war when you think someone has WMDs, and sometimes you "pressure" someone who trades nuclear tech with rogue nations. Its just the way it is.

Anyone see a discrepancy here?

No one on this board, I guess.

@Jason

"Kyota is a farce? Now you wouldn't just be saying that because the US didn't sign it would you?"

Was that also posted by another Jason, Jason? I and others have posted extensive replies to your comments on Kyoto. Where is your response? If we don't see one, I think we will be justified in assuming that you are not interested in an honest debate, but are simply here to repeat propaganda themes.

-- guess its cause the world is complicated. That explains it. Sometimes you launch a full scale war when you think someone has WMDs, and sometimes you "pressure" someone who trades nuclear tech with rogue nations. Its just the way it is.--

Nuance - do you handle every situation the same?

Aren't you paying attention to what's going on in Iran? Don't you know about the strikes and protests?

---

BTW, Jason, new article out, seems the atmosphere can clean/scrub itself better than we thought.


Age discrimination? Hardly

Age verification - of course :)

How many tired Michael Moore cliche's and misrepresentations of historical fact can one sit through before finding out something about the questioner.

If its some addled high school kid ( and it is ) then at least we know what we are dealing with and can attempt to educate or just ignore and trust that some life experience will educate for us

That first paycheck with the taxes taken out is always a nice "class" to take

Honestly the funniest part is Jason accusing others of not answering "his" questions

Has he answered anyone elses?

Excellent Sandy. The protests in Iran have nothing to do with Pakistan leaking nuclear tech.

Hi Jason, I found this comment and thought you might like it:

"""Back Off, Brad! (We think this is tongue-in cheek)

I'm a would-be dictator who is opposed to any American intervention in toppling tyrants. Every time the United States takes down a mass murdering thug, my dreams of becoming overlord recede further into the distance. Your film "Weapons of Mass Destruction" is not helping my efforts either. People like me--egomaniacs who have a vengeance against modern society--deserve a break. Your side got Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler, Slobodan Milosevec, and recently Saddam Hussein. What more do you want? Back off and let me rule the earth. It's only fair. Thanks.

Sincerely, Maria S. Miami, FL"""

http://www.iraqitruthproject.com/viewerresponse.html

Too bad for you that Maria was just joking. Heh Jason?

Jason, I've had the pleasure last night of reading all your ranting last night. Congratulations, I've never seen so many lefty talking points used in such a short time span! I had a blast!

Seriously, I think you should go back and read your own comments, and then the replies to your questions AND statements--the people here were even nice enough to give you additional information about things you didn't inquire about. IMHO, you're making yourself look ridiculous. Oh! Then you had the nerve to rant about YOUR questions not being answered, when it is YOU that has left many questions and replies unanswered and unrebutted--just classic! You get a comment you can't further argue, then you just jump to the next talking point; eventually, you end up, 3-4 days later, using the same talking point that you started with--which had already been successfully rebutted. Isn't that how this circle argument works Jason (troll?)? Or, are you really just so confused? I share your pain, because I was once like you. Then I grew up.

BTW, Sandy did answer your question. A little bit of thinking on your part, is in order to understand the point Sandy's trying to make.

I'll try to help: Are ALL murderers convicted in Texas sentenced to death? Why, or more importantly, why not? Then apply the reasoning for those answers, to the *DIFFERENT situations of Iraq, Iran, N. Korea, Pakistan, etc....

* = BIG HINT!

Ooops correction: "Jason, I've had the pleasure last night of reading all your ranting last night."

Should read: Jason, I've had the pleasure last night of reading all your ranting.

Which brings me to this comment...

I don't think being a great orator is paramount to being a good leader. George Bush, in my opinion, is a great example. His vocabulary and grammar may be limited, but his message is clear. More importantly, he's not all talk and no action (think-politicians in Germany), which I believe makes him that much more credible.

@ amiWAS?, or is it Jason, or are they (gasp) clones?!

""Why don't you say the World is complicated.""

You made a grammatical error! UGH! Where's the question mark?!

Pssst, don't worry, I won't tell the other Bush-bashers.

To answer your question, the word 'complicated' was already used; but, it doesn't seem you understood the explanation where it was used.

""For world security, leaking nuclear secrets is a much bigger security threat than a suspected stockpile of conventional weapons. But these are DIFFERENT situations, i forget""

Tssk, tssk, tssk... Jason, I mean amiWAS?, you forgot the period and didn't capitalize your 'i'--or, is a big 'I' politically incorrect for you!

DIFFERENT situations. Yes!!! Now we are getting somewhere. DIFFERENT situations with many things going on publically, and behind the scenes, that are cause for DIFFERENT reactions to the DIFFERENT situations. Hey guys and gals, I think he's got it!

Oh, but those dubious things going on behind the scenes...--I bet you're thinking. Yes, the unknown, let your imagination fly Jason/amiWAS?/clone. Just think of it! YOU could be the next Michael Moore! (Ray, is that considered name calling? ;-)) Aaahh, the millions of EURO (you probably hate the dollar, right?) you could earn while Iraqis, Americans, and coalition members, risk and lose their lives. I'm sure your arguments will further inspire the er 'insurgents'--you know we shouldn't call them what they are (psst, 'terrorists') it may hurt somebody's feelings.

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