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Can someone please explain to me why Fischer did this? Was he just utterly clueless about what was going on or was there something in it for him and if so, what?

Surely that entire disgrace of a government should resign. Why single out Fischer? The last time unemployment was this high, the whole democracy collapsed.

What happened with visa could have happened to a conservative government too. This affair is unfortunate. They got the right man, but for the wrong reason. The right reason is that he gave up all the atlanticism he stood for - in the line Adenauer-Kohl-Fischer - just for staying in power. He plays the "critical voice", and by doing this he is giving cover to the real problematic thing: Schröders fundamental change of German Foreign Politics. Today Berlin is much nearer to Moscow than to Washington. With Chircac, Schröder is really playing a great game in world politics: subjection of EU and transform it into a tool to fight American predominance.

I am not suprised. After all these Men are the friends and allies of Chirac (Who will go to jail for his past criminal and corrupt activities once he is out of office.) The media will continue to cover for amd praise them. Some old thing just a different day.

Pamela: No, he wasn't utterly clueless, this was ideology at work. The greens traditionally have their "multiculturalist" vision as their utopia, and unchecked immigration is one cornerstone of their multicultural society. Which BTW is why this wouldn't have happened under a conservative government.

Which to me is the real scandal about this whole affair, and one I haven't heard any news outlet or opposition member mention yet (why?): In 1999, Red-Green had a proposed catalog of changes to immigration law that would have greatly increased immigration and naturalization. That proposal was a pet project of the Green party, and public opinion was overwhelmingly against it. Red-Green eventually backed off from the proposed changes under intense pressure, namely a very successful grasroots campaign of collecting signatures and a state election in Hessia that was styled by both sides as a referendum on the issue. And just one year later, Fischer and Vollmer in the foreign office issue a decree that weakens enforcement of the existing law to such a degree that the net outcome is the same as in their failed proposal - what a coincidence. This isn't about mistakes that have been made, this is about intentionally bypassing the democratic process after suffering defeat in that arena, and doing so by bending the law. The term for that is perversion of justice, and this is why a resignation of all decisionmakers is required - it is unacceptable to have a minister disregard the parliamentary process and the people in this way.


apex

Is this an example of the "sophisticated diplomacy" that the US needs to emulate? I think a "drunken cowboy" might be capable of issuing 2 million visas, providing he didn't pass out first. Okay, maybe 300 visas.

2 million visas is a lot of visas if you think about it. For one year that's 5,479.45 visas a day. 288.3 visas an hour. 3.8 visas a minute. That's assuming the embassy is open 24/7. Nope, a "drunken cowboy" couldn't keep that kind of pace. I guess we Americans have a lot to learn from the Germans.

Man, wasn't there some Albanian guy who tried to get into Germany last week? A sound engineer or someting who lost like $100 Euros in application fees to attend a symposium in Germany. Well dam, I bet he's feeling irked about this huh?

No, he wasn't utterly clueless, this was ideology at work. The greens traditionally have their "multiculturalist" vision as their utopia, and unchecked immigration is one cornerstone of their multicultural society.

-----------------------------------------

Absolutly this was part of an ideology and nobody should be surprised Fischer himself wrote it in his book " Risiko Deutschland" published before he became foreign minister. Changing the face of Germany forever and changing the German society by opening the borders for unlimited immigration from foreign countries.
Unlike the Social Democrats the Green Party , the leaders and most of their voters were always interested in the destruction of Germany.
" Deutschland muss sterben, damit wir leben können" - "Germany has to die, so we can live" has been a popular slogan of the Green Party in their early days. Of course they have distanced themselve a bit from this left wing anti-german extremism, but in their hearts it is still alive.

Fischer should have never got a leading role in a democratic elected government just because of his sympathy and support for terrorists like RAF and his hostile attitude towards Germany as a nation. Imagine a former hooligan or "Böhse Onkelz" roadie becoming interior-minister! How outraged everybody would be! But, hey Fischer was the most popular politician for years although everybody knew where he came from. Wonder in what kind of country I live... Fortunately I´m on vacation in U.S. and Canada for the next six weeks. Guess, when I´m back it´s the same old mess...

--"Germany has to die, so we can live"--

What the hell does that mean?

Move.

That's just spite. Self-haters.

Via Bros. Judd, Times of London:

JOSCHKA FISCHER, the embattled German Foreign Minister, failed to quell doubts about his political future yesterday with an irritable performance before a parliamentary investigation into an immigration scandal.
Herr Fischer could yet be brought down by the controversy over a relaxation of visa rules that led to an influx of Ukrainian prostitutes and gangs into Germany and other European countries.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1585411,00.html

Thanks to all for clarifying things for me.

apex:This isn't about mistakes that have been made, this is about intentionally bypassing the democratic process after suffering defeat in that arena, and doing so by bending the law.

The EU is a stone around your necks. This is just the beginning.

Christian (are you someone who used to post as "Christian Proud German Patriot?) "Germany has to die, so we can live" has been a popular slogan of the Green Party in their early days. Of course they have distanced themselve a bit from this left wing anti-german extremism, but in their hearts it is still alive.

Good. Lord.

Anyway, it's late here. I've always known Fischer was a rodent, I just didn't know he carried a plague.

Again, thanks.

If a scandal like this one really did happen and would have been the responsibility of someone belonging to one of the opposition parties, the German MSM would have gotten on it like rabid dogs and would have started a slander of unbelievable dimensions, not letting go of that person until that person either quit or committed suicide, or his wife committed suicide because of the never-ending pressure. The way things are, however, I am afraid that tomorrow the whole matter will be yesterday's news, and by next year Fischer will be Germany's most popular politician again, hopefully (sarc.!) with the help of something that can be used as more anti-American propaganda to help divert attention from Germany's own mess.

Regards to everyone, have a great day.

Edie.

Combine this horror statistic with the 800,000 illegal immigrants that Spain's socialist prime minister gave residency to, and you can see where the EU wants to take us.

These new citizens of europe will make a mockery of any state which wishes to actually control immigration.

Greeens all over europe areleading us to collective suicide. Greens used to be about ecology, now its all about gay weddings and opening the borders.

"If he were the U.S. Secretary of State, U.S. media would be calling for his resignation. U.S. news organizations would demand to know who stamped the visas that allowed over two million Ukrainians to enter the country under false and illegal circumstances and would insist that person be fired."

I wish this were true. If the media supports a policy or if the news would help the Republicans, the US media would NOT call for resignation or insist that a person be fired or even report what was going on. You had to be here to believe it on how the media covered the Clinton Administration. It was one scandal after another, one lie after another, abuse of IRS powers to audit political opponents of Clinton, use of the Secret Service to arrest citizens who questioned Clinton in person, Clinton took campaign funds from Chinese Intelligence and wowie zowie, the Chinese got help from Loral Space on how to keep their missiles from falling out of the sky so that the ChiComs can better target the US with nuclear weapons. Did the media call for anyone's resignation? Did the media even report this? NO!

That's why the rise of Talk Radio, Fox News and the internet is so important. We'd have President Kerry today, if it wasn't for them. The entire Swiftboat Vet's story was known to the entire voting public, before the media ever reported on it. Then all they reported was lies and smears of the Vets.

I wish it were true. We have 4 million illegals crossing the southern border every year. The media attacks anyone who points this out as racists, bigots, anti-immigration and isolationists. Even George W Bush called the people of the Minuteman Project 'vigilantes'. That project has been an incredible success.

@ Uli Speck

"Today Berlin is much nearer to Moscow than to Washington."

Fine by me. Maybe Schroeder will send the Bundeswehr to Chechnya, too.

"With Chircac, Schröder is really playing a great game in world politics"

"World politics"?!? Let's not get carried away. Maybe Schroeder will send the Bundeswehr to the Elfenbeinküste/Ivory Coast, too.

I must have missed it. Did anybody see the UN resolution on the Ivory Coast? Don't tell me about the French and their "go-it-alone" policy!!

@ lemmy
Yes, world politics. The whole clash of the West is a result of Schröders decision to fight the war on Iraq. Without Schröder, Chirac would have been isolated - and weak. Look at China - EU-embargo. Look at Iran - Paris and Berlin are very interested. There are great games going on. The middle East. Africa. A hidden fight for influence. America looks strong. But there are many channels to get influence. France is a major player. Ruanda happened in part because their was a hidden fight between Washington an Paris for influence. Its easy: Chirac alone is ridicoulous, a would-be-de-Gaulle (who himself was a would-be-Napoleon). But with Schröder, he is a major player. Just look at the world and you see a pattern. Their ideas are "realist": Ok, Washington has got Irak. So we have to get Iran. Ok, Washington has got Japan, and Taiwan, and South Coree. We have to get China. What is going on, in their view, is a new partition of the world, the post-cold-war-world. And they see no common western project. Washington is a rival. - Paris has always seen things like this. Since 2002, Berlin is following this path.

Fischer remaining in office may help the opposition more than his resignation, which would admittedly lead to the fall of the government, but might leave the opposition too unprepared to win the ensuing election. They really are appallingly ineffectual, the CDU/CSU/FDP gang, and maybe they need time to work out some basic points and techniques that click with the voters.

The weakness of the opposition questioning and failure to land a telling blow or soundbite on Fischer yesterday is one reason that the media coverage today is so mixed - a good soundbite or two would have made a big difference, but the opposition were weak performers and not able to get that.

Separately, more details may emerge to weaken Fischer's position further and show even more incompetence and arrogance on his and his government's part. Clement's appearance in July is too late for NRW but may help give the opposition ammunition for next year's national elections. So it may be better for Fischer to stay, let folks digest this scandal and the outrageous arrogance that Fischer everywhere displays.

The more this disgusting government is revealed to more and more voters as being a terrible liability to German and European interests, the likelier it is it will be kicked out - even in the face of the relentless MSM bias you dissect so tirelessly here.

@ulrich speck

Good summary of the game. Put into historical context, one suspects that the Franco-German foreign policy that led to two world wars is now -- through the synergy of its combination -- well on the way to plunging the world into an even greater catastrophe.

History does indeed seem to repeat itself.

@belmami
I don't think that this will lead to WW III. They just will cause a lot of trouble - costs - to the Empire. They are more a part of the problem than part of the solution.
Look what is going on in Dafur. Some 300,000 civilicans have been killed. And the killing goes on. In Europe nobody cares (we prefer to talk about genocides of the past, not the present). The Sudanese government is strongly related to Moscow and Peking - it sells oil and buys arms. Only in the US and the UK there is some pressure. But here - nothing. It just doesn't happen in our media.
If the West - US and EU - were united, we could press the Sudanese government to stop the killing. But we aren't. We don't want to stress Peking or Moscow. These are our partners. Our friends.
So every government in the world can play games with us. Khartoum. Also Teheran. Saddam did this very well - he only underestimated the consequences of 9/11.

Pamela

Yes Christian ( Proud to be German), that's me.

" The EU is a stone around your necks. This is just the beginning."

I agree, in the end the ever expanding EU will be a new, but bigger Soviet Union. The plan behind the EU is to end national sovereignty and create an unaccountable, big government regulated, socialist superpower. Nikita Khrushchev would love the idea and so does Putin, he gets Europe as a whole brought to him on a silver plate.

The Communist dream comes true.

Then come comrades rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale ( EU !)
Unites the human race.

""If he were the U.S. Secretary of State, U.S. media would be calling for his resignation. U.S. news organizations would demand to know who stamped the visas that allowed over two million Ukrainians to enter the country under false and illegal circumstances and would insist that person be fired."

I wish this were true. If the media supports a policy or if the news would help the Republicans, the US media would NOT call for resignation or insist that a person be fired or even report what was going on."

Janet Reno also took "full responsibility" for the massacre at Waco, Texas. Meaning: none.

The most shocking realization about all of this is the complete ineptitude put on display by the German opposition parties.

Sorry, but this particular country is going to the dogs.

Well, we had "spheres of influence" (or at least a theory of these spheres of influence) when the Soviet Union was around, and now France, Germany, and Russia want to maybe start another "bloc".

Funny how France and Germany are getting buddy buddy with a failed socialist/communist state (Russia/USSR), which certainly appears to be having a relapse in terms of free enterprise, freedom of the press, and the election process, just to name a few.

The hypocrisy of Chechnya among the Germans and the French is disgusting.

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