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" Antje Vollmer from the Greens wearing a headscarf. "

I think she should wear a burka. And her associate Green "human rights commissioner" Claudia Roth as well.

They are so Islam-friendly. Live what you preach, girls. BTW they look better with burkas covering them.

David Kaspar featured in Aspen Institute Berlin article:
"Blogs: A Pure Marketplace of Ideas"

Speaking of Fischer, I think you forgot to mention the Ökosteuer, particularly in the form of gasoline tax. Wasn't that also an "achievement" of the Greens?

IsnT if funny how the Greens piss and moan about Kyoto.. in the meantime the French really on nuclear power heavily. Which the Greens hate.
But funny you NEVER hear a word of criticism from the Greens about the French.
I wonder why that is.. cough cough

Over-eating can be due to some stress and/or other psychological disorders. Or it is simply from that fine Ukrainian cooking.

Thanks for the post David and Ray. I feel honoured.

And W's thinking of putting sanctions on The Magic Kingdom.

This will be....interesting.

So long as it's someone elses blood for Schroeder's oil, all is well at the pump. ;)

One female German representative wears a headscarf. Hmmm... clearly this is the rule!

And valueing the success of a political party by the goals presented during electings shows a really deep understanding of politics.

This is "Bild" style.

So we should not value a political party by the goals they represented us? Is that what you mean?
Oh, and by the way Lars, it was only one Donald Rumsfeld speaking about "Old Europe". All of Germany reacted Bild style then right??


"And valueing the success of a political party by the goals presented during electings shows a really deep understanding of politics."

LOL you prove my point! Of course you judge politicians by what they say and what they achieve. Well we do apparently unless its Uncle Fischer. In his case we ignore it and still love him. Of course we have to take the situation but perhaps youd like to tell of his great achievements that i missed and how he dealt with reality whilst holding on to his principles? Go on, I dare you.

"One female German representative wears a headscarf. Hmmm... clearly this is the rule!"

Yes it is the rule and if you want the oil more than anything then you play along. Condi though didnt seem to wear a headscarf once on her tour of the ME. It shows the different aims of the country. Germany = Oil, USA = Deomocratic Change. And what would happen to Vollmer if she didnt? Would she be stoned? I think she has diplomatic immunity and would be fine unless she was trying to enter a mosque.

What I went on to say was that this is bad / disgusting timing when the Turkish community and women´s groups here in Berlin are trying to change perceptions after the murder (perhaps more than 6 in the recent months) of women who were deemed to dishonour their families by not wearing these same scarves. I think it is really bad taste for Vollmer to pose so gladly (look at the photo yourself) as a PR attempt with the headscarf to show how cool and culturally aware she is when obviously a lot of women here dont agree and some are obviously fearing for their lives.

"This is "Bild" style."

Cheers. Your comment was very Spiegel.

@Doughnut Boy Andy

Achievements (of posivitive and negative nature) I at least partially appoint to the Greens:

- endlessly raising the fuel taxes
- practically extinguishing the tin cans while introducing stupid complementary one-way plastic bottle recycle systems
- heavily promoting wind energy and solar energy, since 2000 I've seen hundreds of wind turbines installed in my surroundings
- enforcing the marking of genetical engineered food
- changing the agrar subventions and supporting so called "eco" productions (don't know appropriate English terms)
- enforcing the emission trade within the EU and pressuring Russia to sign Kyoto
- improving the anti discriminating laws (mainly against female job discrimination)
- introducing a right for integration efforts for immigrants (e.g. German courses)
- on EU level (with some success) opposing the patents law proposals
- changing themselves and making their own goals more realistic (including practical senses for military missions in the Balkan and in Afghanistan)

Maybe it's not much but I wouldn't say they did nothing. The changed at least some parts of my life and this I take as a sign for political activity.

Concerning female representatives in islamic countries: I remember (but cannot find proofs anymore) for several visits of education minister Buhlman and of CDU chief Angela Merkel in the golf region. Without scarfs.

"Cheers. Your comment was very Spiegel."


Oh, I would rather think they BOTH care loads about oil.

@ Lars

The Greens do not have any positive acheivements.
Stop thinking this way.
Help others stop thinking that way.
They, their bretheran, their forerunners have ruined effectively the German economy. A goal long ago formulated by far the Left and instinctively, more or less with conscious effort, out of habit or by cool planning pursued by the Greens. They are BAD. Quit voting for them. Quit voting for an SPD that makes a clear coalition statement RED/Green.

**- introducing a right for integration efforts for immigrants (e.g. German courses)***

That's not a right, that's a responsibility.

You want to get ahead in a country in which you speak the language very poorly - a country you chose to come to, you have a responsibility to learn the language.


what you say about the Greens is not true. The Greens have complained numerous times about French nuclear policy. They especially made it an issue in 1999 during the transport of nuclear waste from Germany to the La Hague reprocessing plant in France.


among the Green achievements, you forgot to list the immigration compromise, which finally gave Germany a somewhat sensible immigration law.

OT, I know. But I found this interesting.

Franz Thönnes, deputy social affairs minister, defending the piss-poor economic record of the Schroeder administration: It's "very far from social conditions found in America".


They literally cannot defend their economic policies. The only weapon at their disposal is the America sucks angle. They keep firing it. How long will it work?

The current German political leadership is PATHETIC BEYOND WORDS. Why did you elect this ass clown, anyway?

Pandering by wearing headscarves aside, Greens Securing OIL is funny enough!

compared to the bitching and moaning about Kyoto, the Greens have done VERY little complaining about French nuclear power. Of course Gerhard is Chiracs buddy in the struggle against imperial America, so it makes sense right?

@ amiexpat,

you are probably right that "Raison d'Etat" explains why Greens have stopped criticizing French nuclear power. But the point of my post was that it is simply wrong to assert the Greens were always silent on the matter.

SPIEGEL ONLINE - November 25, 2004, 02:50 PM
URL: http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,329261,00.html

Muslim Integration

Eyes Wide Shut

In an interview with DER SPIEGEL, German feminist publisher Alice Schwarzer discusses the difficulties Germany has in dealing with its Muslim women and the growing influence of Islam in Europe.

Alice Schwarzer: "The multicultural ideology is untruthful."

SPIEGEL: For decades, people have looked on without doing anything as some of Germany's Turkish women were stripped of their rights. Why has this stirred so little resistance in German society?

Schwarzer: Because every denunciation of this abuse is immediately branded as racism. But common sense is never wrong: A women, who stumbles about beneath a mountain of cloth while her husband strides around in jeans or a girl who is supposed to enter into a forced marriage? That's a scandal no matter what culture you belong to.

SPIEGEL: Well, you wouldn't hear any accusations of racism from the political right.

Schwarzer: Do you consider all conservatives to be racist? The left, especially, has appealed up till now for a "tolerance of differences." But really, people who make that argument think that Turkish women are a different type of people in another culture whose rules must be accepted -- even if they're misogynist and misanthropic.

SPIEGEL: What have your personal experiences in the fight against the oppression of Muslim women been?

Schwarzer: Intimidation! It all started with my Iran trip in 1979, two weeks after the seizure of power by Ayatollah Khomenei, as I wrote about this new variant of fascism in "Emma." They certainly didn't make any secret of their intentions, just like the Nazis in 1933. People pegged me as a "racist" and "friend of the Shaw." And even today in Germany, no one wants to note that the so-called rebels in Chechnya have practiced (ultra-orthodox) Sharia law since 1994! I haven't heard any human rights activists protesting about that.

SPIEGEL: How do you explain this reaction?

Schwarzer: It's naked contempt for women, but also self-hatred as well as this German desire for beliefs. After the Nazis condemned everything foreign, the children now want to love everything foreign, with their eyes closed tightly. After their left-wing gods went into decline, they want to believe in these new gods.

SPIEGEL: Wasn't it the leftists who took up the issue of foreigners?

Schwarzer: Yes, but often under the mantel of the multicultural ideology, which I consider to be dishonest. They veil the fact that we don't treat others with a basic attitude of equality, but rather in a patronizing manner. This special kind of love of things foreign is just the flip side of contempt of things foreign. We've just seen in the Netherlands what direction a wrongly understood tolerance can take us in. These self-righteous fanatics believe they have the right -- even in our democracy -- to butcher non-believers in order to muzzle any criticism of their delusion.

SPIEGEL: In Germany, the recent headscarf ban has drawn attention to the living conditions of Muslim women. Marieluise Beck, the federal commissioner for integration policy, believes that women wearing a headscarf can be more easily integrated -- especially because they're allowed to leave the house.

Schwarzer: By so frenetically supporting the minority of Muslim women who demonstratively wear the headscarf, she's also stabbing the majority in the back who deliberately don't cover themselves. Does the integration representative even know what kind of moral pressure a headscarf-wearing teacher can exert on a Muslim school girl and her parents? After all, the Islamists consider an unveiled woman to be a whore.

SPIEGEL: But don't basic rights include freedom of religion?

Schwarzer: That has nothing to do with religion, it's politics. Add to that the fact that a teacher's job isn't self-fullfillment, but rather to represent democracy. If an Islamic headscarf is permitted, then why not a (full-body covering) chador or a burqa? In Swedish and English schools, girls have already shown up in burqas.

SPIEGEL: The courts have been dealing with suits from Muslims who want to assert their ideas in this country. How does Islamic law influence German legal practices?

Schwarzer: Insidiously. The Islamists have been conducting targeted propaganda in Germany since the mid-1980s. Their primary offensive is the social infiltration of their own people. Their second is the undermining of the democratic educational system. Their third is the infiltration of the constitutional state. In concerted actions they have, in the past several years, attempted to infiltrate the Sharia law into the German legal system. The flag of this crusade is the headscarf. Professor Mathias Rohe, a judge in the Nuremburg higher regional court who is active in this area, said very openly when asked in 2002: "In Germany, we are applying Sharia law every day. If a Jordanian gets married here, then we marry them under Jordanian law - including the "right" to polygamy.

SPIEGEL: You want to ward off Islamism using the constitution?

Schwarzer: Of course! We fought arduously for our freedoms, like enlightenment and democracy, and we can't allow ourselves to fall back from what we have achieved. Human rights are universally valid and indivisible, regardless of culture and religion.

SPIEGEL: What policies do you expect in order to protect women's rights and to counteract the influence of Islamists?

Schwarzer: There's much to be done because everything has been neglected. Mastery of the German language and the acceptance of our legal system has to become part of the criteria for naturalization. In the affected neighborhoods in the cities, youth programs and contact with the youth need to be actively pursued so that girls and boys are no longer so alienated from each other and so they are not open to incitement by mosque associations that are enemies of democracy. In these neighborhoods and at the university level, we need to actively and constructively put up resistance to the rat-catcher propaganda of the Islamists. And we have to give concrete aid to the acutely threatened women and girls.

SPIEGEL: Shouldn't the affected also raise their voices -- also in the fight against radicals?

Schwarzer: The silence has ended. The most courageous are already starting to raise their voices. And they're paying dearly for it. Following the murder of Theo van Gogh, the name of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Dutch member of parliament of Somali-Muslim origin, has been on the death lists that have been found. She's gone into hiding. Should we all now remain silent out of fear? No. It's time to ask for a little bit of solidarity from democratically minded Muslim women and men.


About Alice Schwarzer

Alice Schwarzer has long served as the intellectual leader of the German feminist movement. Her magazine Emma, which recently turned 26, is highly regarded and widely read. The interview here recently ran as part of a DER SPIEGEL cover story on the struggle Muslim women face in their integration with the West. The feature covered everything from arranged marriages to the forced wearing of the headscarf -- both prevalent in Germany, which is home to more than 3 million Muslims."

There is a tiny amount of ironic justice.
Alice Schwarzer is one of those whose chickens have come home to roost.

Anything "positive" the Greens have done would have been done by other Partys sooner or later anyway and some of the things they corrected were their doing anyway.

As for jobs (wind / solar energy):
Like a fireman/arson who burns down 50 buildings and helps put out one fire.

No one anywhere in the world should vote green / etc. Influence as many people as possible to stay away from Leftist/Greens / etc.

I can't believe there are people out there, obviousely living in Germany (as I am) and still think the Greens did anything good for the country. First, I you make it too expensive to keep people mobile, you destroy the economy. Thanks to the Green Ober-Lehrer Trittin, German people face a gas price of $5,30/gallon today. Imagine what that does for the average income family, let alone mid-size companies in (still) business. The money the state collects of this gas taxes is not being invested to drive the economy, no it is used to further choke free enterprise. I am sick of getting in all the details now, but I am asking: When will Germany wake up?? We're going down the drain guys!! Suggestion from me. Can't we just give the Greens a small fraction of say Alaska or Lappland where they can roam free in self knit sweaters, hug some trees, grow their organic gardens and live happily without cars, plants and people who enjoy the achievement of mankind. Heck, we could even offer to feed them every once in a while, just make them go away from politics. For the red "Genossen" around Schroeder I suggest to just cling closer to Wladimir and enjoy the fine domocracy over in Russia but stay out of German affairs. This used to be a democratic society with strong work ethics. I know we still have potential, we just need to get rid of the deluted.
For heavens sake, Lord please send some brainpower to the German voter and make this decay of moral and economy go away.


Not to mention his Flaschenpfand which has led to all sorts of inconvienience (sp !, who cares during a rant) , you cannot buy water in all places anymore, it is terribly expensive, you have to keep toting these filty empties around with AND get them to the cashier to get your refund. Then you have all these boxes of collected old filthy, stinking empties around the cashier area, the cashier handling them and then your groceries.
My favorite is the case of the wood burners. Back to the Middle Ages or Stone Age for that matter.
The Greens have ruined the economy such that increasingly people are having difficulty paying for their heating oil or gas during winter / fall / spring and are buying wood burning stoves in great numbers. Take a look at your " Home Depot" Baumarkts. They are full of them and they are selling like hotcakes. A lot of older German homes have chimneys and you can bet and I KNOW anything burnable gets pushed through them. You can see and SMELL the results on any cold day, and there are many cold days in Germany.
I like that: zero emissions regulations on cars and industry and then force the population into burning wood in totally uncontrolled/able devices.

The Greens can move to Cuba, or New Zealand ( they really like it there anyway) or I would even sacrifice Germany on a line to the North of Frankfurt for them.
The South would prosper like never before.
The constant bad conscience of Germans together with the Green appeal of sweet furry animals and green peaceful forests renders them oblivious to the damage the Greens have caused.

When you draw that line, let me move south first as I am noth of it now.

Well , this is going to be hard.
There are a lot of good people living North.
The actual line is open for debate.

Pardon me if I missed the point. There's a lot of sonic bleating going on about the nasty Greens and the lot of you are skipping blithely by what's happening to Muslims in your own country.

From what I gather in this discussion thread, Germany doesn't force it's laws onto immigrants coming from other countries. Want to practice polygamy? Fine, as long as you're not German. Want to murder your women for violating some religious laws and cultural values that aren't on the books (I'm guessing) ANYWHERE in Germany. Fine, as long as we don't have to know about it. After all, wasn't the "whore living like a German"?

In the spirit of liberalism, you've fostered Balkanization within your own borders. Why SHOULD Muslims living in Germany respect the same laws protecting human rights (most notably the right NOT to be murdered, especially by your own kin) if you don't require them to?

I can envison a future in Germany where immigrant Muslims would enact even stricter versions of Sharia in their own social enclaves and expect the German government and authorities to turn a blind eye - - after all, you've done it up to this point. Perhaps some Imam living in Germany will demand that Sharia be incorporated or at least accomodated by German law?

You've been willing accomplices up to this point - who will stand against them then if you won't do it now?

Or will you just blame it all on Bush?

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