« Welcome to Mainz Mr. President! | Main | Old Europe: Never Forgive, Never Forget »


'But this is a discussion of the past. Today, today, we have any interest, both sides - "yes" and "no" position - that the outcome now will be a democratic stability in Iraq, because negative consequences would be terrible for all of us.'

A very good statement in my opinion but the German government does not live up to it. Although we are training some security forces we could do a lot more.

As for giving no answers, Fisher is no better or worse than virtually every politician. It's really going on your nerves.

"which led now to elections"?
"contradictionary situation"?
"we have any interest"?


@ go me away,

he spoke in English which is not perfect.

Phil, I think his English is 'good enough.' I got it, think most will. Europe is tolerant and peaceful? Wow, can't wait until the next 'flair-up.' Seems they have a bit of a problem with Jews, Muslims, and labor.

These are the supposedly "smart" european politicians...
What an interview! What a brilliant perspective!

Ray, do you realize that to publish such an exposing interview with our beloved Außenminister, regardless of it being factual, would be considered "Majestätsbeleidigung" in Germany? No sense of humor there. How about a float of Fischer as Pinocchio, with a dunce hat and a sign saying "I not convinced!"?

Since the very beginning of the end of the war, we work with our American friends.
Did I miss some German contribution to the post-war process?
We invented, together with our American friends, the concept of the broader Middle East for a transition.
Another choice sentence. The fellow has slightly more gall that Al Gore, who never actually claimed to have invented the InterNet.

Why is this guy Foreign Minister again? I am pretty sure he is no a democrat. He appears to be a lightweight. All I can say is look at Sec. Rice and Look at Minister Fischer. I guess his qualifications are he is a real 1968er. Throwing fire bombs at the police and being a supporter of the RAF/Bader-Meinhoff Gang?. I suspect he is actually a communist as many Greens are actually Reds.

Wow! I thought I was reading a John Kerry interview. Do all these knotheads think and talk the same way?

@ Sock Puppet

"I guess his qualifications are he is a real 1968er. Throwing fire bombs at the police and being a supporter of the RAF/Bader-Meinhoff Gang?."

He's more than that! The old Romanian Secret Service had him working for the famous terrorist, Carlos the Jackal, in the mid 70s.

Supposedly he took money, donated by M.Ghadafi, and used the money to buy from the Romanians, the building plans of where the OPEC ministers were meeting. Karlos stormed this meeting and took the mid-east oil ministers hostage. 4 Austrian security guards were killed during this caper.

Does this make Joschka an accomplice to murder?

funny ... you are so funny


If Joshka Fischer were an American, could you image someone like him attempting to become prominent politician?

It just wouldn't happen! Beating up police, fraternising with terrorist, pathetic outbursts, etc, etc...

mein got! hillarious.

We will trade you 2 Kennedys for a lame and blind dog with 3 legs.

After reading all I can say is "Yuck", I need a shower. After reading this, I would be scared to be a German. It seems he can only be hard on one country, the US, and only in his own country. Talking about talking out of both sides of your mouth. First, he makes is sound like Germany defeated Nazis and the USSR all by themselves. Then he turns around and praises the US. Does he relies what he is saying?

I think you misunderstand Fischer. He refers to the peace which has been in Europe since 1945. Before, year for year there was at least one war in Europe. But after WWII there was peace. The EU was a product of the wars in the past and the peace of the present. And this peace lead to wealth and even sympathy with each other (ok when there's a soccer match between England and Germany we have war againt).
Fischer thinks the Europeans and the whole world can see what power peace has, for him Europe shows that you can live in peace and wealth without power politics, without national interests or totalitarian ideologies. He's an idealist as well, but in an other way than Bush. He wants to transform the European model to the world.
But his problem is that he can't see that this European peace was only possible because Germany was military defeated by the Americans, Britains (and Sowjets). And he cant see that the European Union is a product of the American "friendly occupation" and military presence in Europe (against the Sowjets) as well, not just a product of a new European "never any war again - spirit".

But this is the new ideology of Europe, we saw to many wars, for us it's just clear that these wars didn't bring us forward, no they cost to many lifes. And Fischer thinks that everybody thinks that about war, although out there we have terrorists and dictators who are not interested in the European peace-model.
It's not Old Europe anymore like Rumsfeld said (in another context I know, I'm able to read), it's New Europe, the "no war, never again and nowhere"-Europe.

Simple Question:

I know there are many of you who pay close attention to what is being said by the spd as it relates to today’s situation in Iraq.

Could one of you please tell me just what principles the Germans are now following as it pertains to both supporting the NATO training mission to Iraq as well as actually putting troops in country if they in fact had to the troops to deploy. It would appear they are doing neither of these. I have to assume there is some foreign policy principle being applied.

Some where in all of the events since the election I have missed any discussion on this.

Fischer is a " Lindenstrasse " character. That is why he is popular.
A one time socialist/communist, the stone thrower of Frankfurt, now a Minister. Used to be fat and unhealthy, took to jogging etc.

He is a joke. Very popular, as a Foreign Minister has done nothing but look " betroffen" .

"He refers to the peace which has been in Europe since 1945."

And the oppression of 200+ million people by the benign Soviets. They exported alot of their failed ideology elsewhere in the world (yes - along with guns, phil).

Additionally, wasn't it VDH who said that all of the world's "isms" come from Europe?


I agree with some of your analysis, but isn't it strange that Fischer should claim his "ideological path" to be the most enlightened one?

Meaning, he believes that Europe has been on the right path since 1945, the EU as ist cornerstone (not necessarily Nato though). Since the 1960s he has been a radical leftist, a leading member of the Green party. The Green party only 5 years ago finally had sufficient seats to join a coalition government in Germany, to really effect policy from the parliamentarian point of view.

He allures to the fact that Germany has also been on the right path over this time period. That this "model" can be extended and recycled globally. This I find a great contradiction, because he and the Green party were never members of the German government during some of it's most difficult times since 1945: Realpolitik, 2 Berlin crisis, pershing missle distribution, Stasi infiltration, Baader-Meinhof, Münich, etc. For him to claim ownership of the wisdom of some great policy decisions of admirable German leaders since 1945 like Adenauer and Kohl is a mockery of history.

He is usurping German emotions towards "Frieden" whilst having never participated in that achievement. Contrarily, history shows that he worked to destroy the same institution that he now considers "heilig".

It is for this reason that I asked the question (above) if one could ever imagine a similar figure in American politics becoming Secretary of State. I state this would never be possible.


Ted Kennedy never threw Molatov cocktails. In short, between the evil Kennedy and the evil Fischer, I would choose Kennedy.


You are now talking about REALLY REALLY bad choices......

I think Fischer's point of view has changed and I think it's wrong to judge somebody only according to his background. Fischer is not a fundi like Trittin (secretary of environment), he's become a realo. And I really dont like the Greens, but Fischer is still the best among them, because he's one of the moderatest Greens. He's not the molotow-thrower anymore, now he's the man in the fine suit. Remember he was for the war in kosovo and persuaded his pacifistic party.

And his "idol" is not Adenauer or Kohl, but maybe the peace nobel price winner Willy Brandt with his "Neue Ostpolitik", which led to relaxation (Entspannung?) of the east-west-realtions (in Germany and the whole of Europe).

James posts:

If Joshka Fischer were an American, could you image someone like him attempting to become prominent politician?

It just wouldn't happen! Beating up police, fraternising with terrorist, pathetic outbursts, etc, etc...
~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Sure it could Jim, or at least in one party. Ever hear of Al Sharpton, or Tom Hayden.

Europe will look the other way for a Stalin (XXX millions dead), a Hussein (350,000 dead, so far,) a Castro (20,000 dead) or a Fischer . . . but puffs itself up in righteous moral indignation at the suggestion of a Pinochet (2,500 dead), Haider (0 dead), or a Le Pen (0 dead).



"Sure it could Jim, or at least in one party. Ever hear of Al Sharpton, or Tom Hayden."

I've agreed with many of your posts, as well as Niko's in the past. But sorry, not this one.

Kennedy never sought to undermine the government and work with Stasi/PLO sponsorted terrorists. Nor does Al Sharpton ever pass for more than black angst to white sub-urban americans... Sharpton is not a viable candidate, full stop.


Did Brand's approach give East Germans the vote? Kohl/Bush/Reagan achieved that...

Basically, what you're saying is that Fischer's changed with the times (or matured a little bit). I liken Fischer to someone like Castro. Castro wanted "free" elections when he was in the woods with Che Guevara in 1958 (KGB $ helped). But, when he came to power, he negated his earlier desires. Had Fischer's molatov cocktails (finaced by the Stasi) changed the government, he would not be so "agreeable" now. I really think that your position is very naive...

Also, notice how he's given up jogging?

i have to jump in here and say that the US had a hand in making sure these fools get to run the DE these days. It was a bet that they couldnt get THAT nuts. I was a basebrat at the HQ in the 70's and it was pretty cool how nutty the Germans were what with their parades and protests and things of that nature. Compared to the Cong the dirty hippies were cute. It does pain me that they all took that shit so seriously -now they co-invent (please!) and all the other fluff ball crap they spew. Compared to the rest of the world like Iraq and Afghanistan, Germany is so rich and spoiled they can't handle it. Where are they going to put all that guilt without hiring these dickheads to take their minds to another plane. Not the guilt for nailing the Sovs and everybody else, but the guilt for making it look so simple to get their shit back together. The current politics of social acceptability over character is just celebrity worship in a land of plenty. But I blab.
The real deal is that when the Germans couldve really screwed things up they didnt and I can ignore their candyass pols because I know that just like most of the French you don't hear about they'll get the US to kick the shit out of anyone
that tries to cut into their racket.

The comments to this entry are closed.


The Debate

Blog powered by Typepad

June 2022

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
      1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30