« Thank you, USA! | Main | Finally »


It wouldn't take much.

I just love those softball "interviews":

Q: Bushitler is Evil, Rumsfeld is Satan's tool, and the US economic situation with 80 gazillion unemployed makes Bangladesh look like Switzerland. Don't you agree?

A: Yes, I love America, especially the part that includes Noam Chomsky's office. But that America is going away, to be replaced by Christianofascist totalitarianism and the mind-control of Fox News. Yes, that Brit Hume is truly an Enemy of the People, and a minion of the devil to boot.

Q: That mind-control resulted in the travesty of democracy that we witnessed last week. Don't you agree that a working group of European artists and intellectuals should be convened, under UN auspices, to correct the fundamentally wrong attitudes of the American electorate?

A: Yes, although a few American luminaries, such as P. Diddy, Sean Penn, and Ben Affleck should be invited to provide their unique perspective. We Europeans shouldn't interfere too deeply in American affairs - after all, it is their country.

Q: But we mustn't limit the membership to Europeans! Many Arab critics and commentators would be quite useful. After all, Osama's recent discourse on American society was quite profound and well-stated, so his input would be invaluable, no?

A: Yes, in fact, part of the working group must be a committee representing Arab thought. Osama is required, and I would have wanted Chairman Arafat there as well, but he seems to be indisposed at the moment.

Q: Thank you for your profound insights into the American psyche, and your thoughts on how we can save our American friends from oblivion.

A: Thank you!

I have a question:

Is my assertion correct, that this website communicates how german media is viewed by a a wing of the Republican Party in the USA (which, in the german party system scale, could be described as a right-wing populist party)?

Oh, and I have been watching Faux News, too, and I loved it! Its cute.


Note from David: Watch out, folks. Heavy troll traffic...

"Is my assertion correct, that this website communicates how german media is viewed by a a wing of the Republican Party in the USA"


Germans are not angry because Americans think offensive things about Germany. Germans are angry because Americans don't think about Germany (or France or Spain or...Greece or...). Sorry, but Americans have history to make.

"...and I would have wanted Chairman Arafat there as well, but he seems to be indisposed at the moment."

Yeah, like, for the rest of his life. Good riddance.

Seems there will always be people who can't see the forest for the trees.

Just a thought...I wonder how Germans would respond to the assertion that the best thing about German society is like the worst thing about American bureaucracy (the US Post Office comes readily to mind here, although I'm sure there are other equally worthy American bureaucracies with which to make an appropriate comparison).

Not that I believe that, I just wonder how they would react to such criticism. Especially, if it was constant. Come to think of it, I should think that if the US was as openly and vocally anti-German as Germans are anti-American, most Germans would find such attention to be particularly disconcerting -- if you know what I mean.

I suspect the typical American couldn't give a rip what artsy-farsty German Hollywood thinks.

Now watch the media, how they report about Arafat. How do they handle his terror, his killing of people and then compare it how the same people report about Scharon.

Often it sounded like Arafat the hero and Scharon the evil.

But of course it has nothing nothing to do with anti Semitism. Nothing.

As a German I feel ashamed how they glorify Arafat and demonize Scharon.

So less don't know the history. Israel occupied Libanon. Everybody knows this . But nobody knows WHY. What happened that they did it? What terror occurred BEFORE? Too less know about it. As Pat posted, people are tired of this conflict. This sentence shocked me.

We are responsible for this conflict. We are responsible for the wrong information in our media. When we are tired, those people will win who started this propaganda.

We will see how much money Arafat's wife will get to continue her life in luxury while the real Palestinians have to suffer.

@Is my assertion correct, that this website communicates how german media is viewed by a a wing of the Republican Party in the USA?

I am German, and although I am not a contributor to this site, I can tell you that it is one of the few websites made by Germans where you still can find dissident views on the collective anti-american hysteria which has gripped this country.

Were Havel, Sacharow and Walesa expressing the Republicans' view only when they criticized communist media?

Knight Rider: Ich lese David's Medienkritik, weil mich Deutschland was angeht - bin hier geboren, hab den Pass, wohne hier. Wenn ich ein Amerikaner in den USA wäre, ohne Verbindung zu Deutschland, könnte mir die Situation hier grad mal am A**** vorbeigehen.

Allerdings habe ich erst nach einigen Jahren im Ausland kapiert, dass nicht jede politische Partei in jedem Staat so einfach in das deutsche links/rechts-Schema passt, wie du dir das vorstellst. Wenn das anderen ähnlich gegangen ist, könnte das erklären, warum hier oft mehr auf Englisch gepostet wird als auf Deutsch?

David/Ray: Troll or not, KnightRider raises a legitimate question: who's your target audience? If it's Germans primarily, it might help to give more prominence to your German-language content.

Yesterday, while driving back from work, I listened to one of the most deranged comments on Arafat I ever heard. It was SWR 1, shortly before 8 p.m. by a Peter Duhn or something similar. Highlights were (recalled from memory):

"Arafat represented most clearly what every [!!!] Palestinian is at heart - a refugee..."

"Arafat is most popular with the Palestinians ... a portrait of him sits prominently in every Palestinian living room."

"His heroism [!] showed when he spent the last three years of his life in a bunker in the middle of the rubble that once was Ramallah."

Especially the last two cited sentences made me think that Arafat must have reminded him so much of our beloved Führer that he couldn't help but praise him.

Anonymous Coward


Is Chomsky a dissident also? Or Moore?
If you are a german, are you living outside germany, are you relying on this website when judging german media? Or do you actually consume german media, and you do just come here to to agree therefore?

I ask this, beccause I think, the views and critizism expressed here are 1. partisan 2. remind me of some biased US media (Faux News was a good example), 3. many things critizized here can also be found in US liberal / left-wing media

Anonymous Coward, how exactly would you have wanted the comments on SWR to be like?

Like those funny "Arafish" jokes you find on the conservative weblog "little green footballs", would that have suited you more? You do not think A. is/was popular in palestine? You do not think palestinians see themselves as refugees (and often live in refugee camps)?


Anonymous Coward, now look at that nice piece good H. Broder wrote about Arafat in Spiegel Online (you know, that dreadfull anti-american hatesite). I liked it, do you?

@Knight Rider:

Mentioning terrorism even once in the whole comment would have been nice, as a starter.

> You do not think A. is/was popular in palestine?

Yes, just like the Führer was/is in Germany.
"Popularity" might be a misleading guide in judging the historic standing of a person.

> You do not think A. is/was popular in
> palestine? You do not think palestinians see >themselves as refugees (and often live in >refugee camps)?

Refugee camps composed of concrete and stone "tents" that look remarkably like "houses" and "apartment buildings" do not qualify as "refugee camps" anywhere in the world but Palestine.

Did you visit all those Sudeten German refugee camps in Bavaria recently ? ;-)

Broder's piece seems to be an adequate short cv of Arafat's "achivements", so I see no problem with that. The SWR 1 comment was an admiration piece for the alleged "freedom fighter".

David I think you need to start tracking IPs I think you have a troll refugee poster from Slashdot.

Wim Wenders, is as you say the producer of some very borring and bad movies.
His residence in the US and working in Hollywood give him a little perspective on the US. As I said a little as in not very much. I would venture to say he couldn't survive in Europe as people expect real movies and when they go to the cinema, not the crap Hollywood so often puts out. Like most in the entertainment industry his opinion isn't worth very much.

ernst: "David/Ray: Troll or not, KnightRider raises a legitimate question: who's your target audience? If it's Germans primarily, it might help to give more prominence to your German-language content."

Yes, I would like to have an answer to this question too.

If you are targeting German audience, you should provide information which proofs the position of our media wrong. What you are doing is not convinceing any German of anything. But it it does a lot to disrespect our German soldiers who are fighting around the world together with the Americans against terror.

@Sock Puppet of Doom

Did you confuse me with Knight Rider or do I really have to put sarcasm tags into my postings?

And, yes, the nick "Anonymous Coward" is stolen from slashdot, although I never post/ed there...


Chomsky and Michael Moore are not dissidents. No more than someone who goes out of their way to murder can be called a 'martyr'.
A dissident is someone who by force is not permitted to express their views, or is expelled from a country. None of these things are true of Chomsky and Moore.
But since their adherents see that there is someone out there who disagrees with them, they naturally feel the need to crank up the sympathy machine, and call that a crime, or 'unfair'. They are exagerating.

Want to see who the dissidents are? Take a look at the political prisoners or those deported from China, North Korea, or Cuba.

those three nations, oddly enough attract a great deal of apology and sympathy from Chomsky and Moore. They don't even seem to qualify their statements anymore. They have rationalized their self loathing into a hatred of their own society and into carrying the bucket for dictatorial regimes.

"Germans are angry because Americans don't think about Germany (or France or Spain or...Greece or...)."

1. Neither Germans nor Americans do speak with one voice. The political views among Germans and among Americans differ. Look at the elections in these countries.

2. If Americans do not think about europe, I wonder why they are talking so much about it.

3. Ernst, Sie haben recht, die Realität ist doch etwas vielfältiger als rechts-links-Schemen oder Deutschland. Trotzdem muss die Frage erlaubt sein, wessen Sicht auf die deutsche Presselandschaft hier Ausdruck findet. Es soll ja der Anschein erzeugt werden, hier verliehe ein Deutscher der "amerikanischen" Sicht eine Stimme, und mir kommt es eben eher so vor, als sei dies eher die etwas einseitige Sicht der republikanischen Partei und ihrer Anhänger. Aus dem demokratischen Lager kann man auch ganz andere Stimmen vernehmen. Darauf wollte ich hinaus.

"Sorry, but Americans have history to make."

Well, who hasnt. Europeans are quite busy at the moment building the united states of europe, for example.

I realize I am considered a troll here, while I just wanted to raise some serious doubts and questions I had. In my view, a "troll" is someone who disrupts serious discussions on the internet with silly unhonest positions, arguments and personal insults, for the sake of fun and chaos.

I will stop posting comments from now on. The market of ideas is far more regulated than I thought. Bye.


"But it it does a lot to disrespect our German soldiers who are fighting around the world together with the Americans against terror."

"Fighting" - key word.

Where in this world is Germany fighting terror, specifics please. If you're going to use Afghanistan as an example, please list me the battles where Germany "fought."

As I recall, and I like to read history, that by the time the “German Troops” arrived in Afghanistan starting January 2, 2002, the war in Afghanistan was over.

13th November, 2001 – fall of Kabul
12th December, 2001 – Tora Bora

Considering the USA brought the war to the enemy within 1.5 short months time, I think that’s a surprising turn around. Bin Laden himself thought the USA would need 6 months like in Gulf War I. We had to solve diplomatic concerns by Russia : they gave us the bases, we stopped complaining about human rights abuses in Chechnya ( don’t worry, Germany willingly looks the other way too ).

The problem with Germany’s deployment was the Bundestag’s timing of the vote and no means of transport. Germany’s “rapid reaction force” had to borrow transport planes from the Ukraine to get there. Nor, was any UN Security council resolution – surprising no?

The issue here is not intended to be pedantic, but to provoke genuine thought on the issue of how far Germany is willing to go to stop terrorism, despotism, etc. I am glad to have Germany help in Afghanistan, don’t get me wrong, but Germany will have to confront a lot of issues (within it’s self) before German soldiers are allowed to start dying on the field of battle. Such a day, standing with the US, Nato, Europe will mark the end of WWII.

Perhaps “fighting” is the inappropriate word, maybe “contributing, participating or defending.”

@ James: You are wrong, this time, my friend, with your denial of Germans fighting in Afghanistan. While it is correct that they arrived after the big battles there, they have been attacked in several occassion, causing some German soldiers to die and other to get severly wounded. In at least two occassions I know from Kunduz, the German forces were shot at and shot back. I call this fighting, I call this being in harms way as maybe another definition of "fighting". But you are of course right when you say a) that the brunt of the fights have been born by other nations and that b) German forces are precariously undereqipped for the tasks most defense politicians in Germany now have understood to be their main duty and occupation in the future.

WE do need a long overdue of change for the German Federal Forces, and most of all the best eqipment possible for their job. I hate it when I see how good soldiers, NCO and Officers are faced with lack of material and poor equipment in what is still one of the leading industrial nations in the world.......

But thats just me.


How many?

Skirmishes is not the same thing as fighting battles.

Kaegen’s adage „Americans prepare supper and the Europeans clean up“ still holds true.

Germany waiting of the hot-tub tempurature to get just right, doesn’t compare with British unmitigated commitments as of September 12, 2001.

I was also right about

3) Germany’s hypocritical choosing to look the other way regarding Chechnya.
4) No Security Council resolution regarding Afghanistan which I thought was Schöder’s doctrine legalising military involvment ( except Kosovo, Bosnia, Serbia ).

@ James:

"Germany’s hypocritical choosing to look the other way regarding Chechnya"

as far as I remember, Putin wanted Bush to win since the current American admistration does not raise a lot of questions about Russia's drive towards a new dictatorship and its conduct in Chechnya.

So I'm not suggesting that the German government is not hypocritical, it is. But most other countries (sadly and surprisingly including the US) have just as well forgotten all their morals concerning foreign policies towards Russia.

As for Kagan's view: he is probably right but it's not necessarily bad that Europeans are better when it comes to securing peace after a war (especially the British seem to know how it's done). I'm not naive though: our army neither has the equipment nor the political backing to get involved in real battles. In that sense we are still in a post-WWII mindframe.

You realize what "securing peace after war" is, don't you? It the part of the excercise that requires very little commitment of placing persons at risk, and very little ability relative to the conflict. It it chechbook diplomacy.
As for securing peace after war, I suppose the precedent is the former Yugoslavia, a place that the Europeans should not have need the US for anyway. For goodness sake it's spitting distance from Vienna. There too, the US is expected to be in the rebuilding business. The better way to think of this, is that in Y. the US was Europe's poodle, or better yet it's mercinary.

Given the way in which developnment would be protracted and exploited for its' commercial value, I'm not sure I would want Europe to be involved in Iraq anyway.

Knight Rider: Alle Fragen sind erlaubt. Ich halte es allerdings für besser, Ideen nach ihrer Tauglichkeit zu bewerten als danach, von wem sie stammen oder in welcher Sprache sie formuliert werden. Und sieze mich gefälligst nicht!

Might I suggest that Wim Wenders move to the tolerant Netherlands. Wim, remember Pim? How about Theo Van Gogh? When we Cromwellians in the US don't like a film we give it the old thumbs-down, not gun shots and multiple stabbings. So much for Amsterdam as being the ethical center of the known Universe. And Wim, please take Moore with you. Drop him off in the "Chocolate Making Countries" where he can feel the love and gorge himself on Ivorian blood chocolate.

The comments to this entry are closed.


The Debate

Blog powered by Typepad

February 2021

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
  1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27