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Folter! Folter! Folter! Folter! Folter! Folter! Folter! Folter!
Schon der 2. Fall von Abu Ghraib in Deutschland and keinen interessiert's.
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Rekruten misshandelt? - Staatsanwaltschaft ermittelt gegen Offiziere

Coesfeld/Münster (ddp-nrw). Die Staatsanwaltschaft Münster ermittelt gegen 18 Angehörige einer Ausbildungskompanie der Bundeswehr in Coesfeld-Flamschen. Wie ein Sprecher der Anklagebehörde am Donnerstag mitteilte, handelt es sich bei den Beschuldigten um einen Offizier und 17 Unteroffiziere. Die Männer sollen zwischen Juni und August Rekruten in deren Ausbildung entwürdigend behandelt beziehungsweise misshandelt haben.

Nach Angaben der Staatsanwaltschaft wurden die Offiziere bereits vom Dienst suspendiert. Da man mit den Ermittlungen erst am Anfang stehe, könne derzeit noch nicht gesagt werden, ob und wann es zu einer Anklage komme, erklärte der Sprecher. Sollten die Bundeswehr-Offiziere von einem Gericht verurteilt werden, drohen ihnen Freiheitsstrafen von bis zu fünf Jahren.

http://de.news.yahoo.com/041111/336/4ahv6.html

Man kann das natürlich auch ohne Häme und Schadenfreude berichtet: Ägypten war schlicht überfordert, das ist alles.

Wie es die Financial Times sieht:

http://www.ftd.de/pw/in/1099734369559.html?nv=hptn

Notiz von David: Man könnte natürlich auch einmal Sarkasmus verstehen...
Es reicht, T, wenn Sie den Link hier veröffentlichen. Es muß nicht der gesamte Artikel sein.

"In einer strengen Belehrung zu Aspekten des geltenden Ausnahmezustands warnte die Regierung alle im Irak tätigen Medienorganisationen, sie müßten "exakt und objektiv" berichten, "Killer und Terroristen nicht mit patriotischen Attributen versehen" und in ihren Berichten dem Standpunkt der Regierung genügend Platz einräumen. Im Irak war die Zensur nach dem Sturz des Saddam-Regimes abgeschafft worden."

Artikel erschienen am Sa, 13. November 2004
http://www.welt.de/data/2004/11/13/359510.html?s=2

Zensur, wenn man an Wahrheitspflicht appeliert?


As an American poster pointed out, good little Dhimmi, he was shown his place in the greater scheme of things.

At the very least the foreign minister could have stayed around and fired off some AK-47 rounds with the rest of his friends.

Tagesschau.de:
Mutmaßliches PKK-Trainingslager ausgehoben
Großansicht des Bildes Grafik: Niederländische Polizisten riegeln ein mutmaßliches PKK-Trainingscamp ab
http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/meldungen/0,1185,OID3788792_REF3,00.html
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Warum dürfen die boys denn nicht ein bißchen trainieren? Nett, so schön nahe. Ob wohl auch aus Deutschland ... ?


Tagesschau.de ist ganz neutral und sachlich, ist ja auch öffentlich-rechtlich:
1. Howard Zinn gibt ein Interview, der wie folgt beschrieben wird:

Howard Zinn, 81, lehrte bis 1988 Geschichte an der Universität Boston und ist Autor des Standardwerks "A People’s History of the United States". Seine Kritik am US-Engagement in Vietnam kostete Zinn 1963 die Geschichts-Professur in Atlanta (Georgia). Danach ging er nach Boston (Massachusetts), wo er zu einem der führenden Historiker der Nachkriegszeit wurde.


Dann kommt noch etwas Nettes:

"ARD-intern Historiker Stern: Bush ist ein Rechtsradikaler [blog].
Der 78-jaehrige war immer ein Mann der Verstaendigung - bis zur Wiederwahl von George W. Bush, den der liberale Wissenschaftler einen Rechtsradikalen nennt."


Stand: 12.11.2004 16:41 Uhr


Warum läßt man eigentlich nur Bush-Kritiker zu Worte kommen?

As I said on my blog: »Joschka Fischer treated like a bothersome demonstrator« is wrong. It should have been »Joschka Fischer IS a bothersome demonstrator«

I read the SPON article and I must say that I don't understand what the problem is. This was a funeral for a criminal. Funerals for criminals are always extremely unruly and very often violent. I speak with some knowledge about this, as I lived in Oakland, California, for many years, where gaudy, chaotic funerals for violent criminals are an everyday occurrence. If Herr Fischer and his traveling party expected a somber, dignified affair, they were at the very least guilty of a level of naivete that exceeds the level that we Americans are often accused by Europeans of showing.

In one regard, this funeral is identical to the funeral of the most hated man in the history of Hollywood, Harry Cohn, one time head of Columbia Pictures. As in this case, an unbelievably large number of people attended his funeral. The famous comedian, Red Skelton, made an observation about Cohn's funeral that applies here, "It just goes to show you if you give the people what they want, they'll come out."

Joschka Jostled. Wasn't that an opera by Kurt Weill? I think he wrote it just before his play Fischer Fisked.

Well, you guys know me, and you know I won't bullshit. What happened to the U.S. guy William Burns? I can't find anything about how he was treated. So, my take is not that Fischer was snubbed, it is that these people can't even organize a one-car funeral. With 2 weeks advance notice.

I love it.

@ Gabi

"Danach ging er nach Boston (Massachusetts), wo er zu einem der führenden Historiker der Nachkriegszeit wurde."

Nonsens. Howie Zinn hat seinen Name in der 70 Jahren gemacht. Er hat das Bibel fuer Demos "Non Violent Protest" geschrieben. Deswegen ist er bekannt. Er ist ueberhaupt nicht ein "fuehrend Historiker,"

del.

Notiz von David: Racker, leider hat unser "Automatic BS Detector with Build-in Delete Function" bei Ihrem verdienstvollen Kommentar reagiert...

"Automatic BS Detector with Build-in Delete Function"

Frage: Wie funktioniert die eigentlich?

That is the difference between Germany and America: She simply sent an Assistent Secretary of State (President>Secretary of State>Deputy Secretary>Under Secretary>Assistent Secretary) and gave the PLO the slap into its face it really deserved; whereas our Weltpolitiker Fischer was heading to Egypt only to receive a slap into his face which he really deserved anyway.

The US humiliated a terrorist organization, the terrorist organization humiliated the German government: How embarrassing -I thought the PLO and Joschka had some special connections and, besides, where is our pro-Saddam benefit: Please, PLO, never cease to love us, please, terrorists, don´t treat us this way, blow Isreal away but do not offend us, okay?

...how about leaving out sarcasm and mockery for once and simply stating the facts: Egypt simply couldn't handle so big an event.

Note from David: Can you handle sarcasm, afromme?

SPIEGEL (a magazine far from left-wing these days anyways)

Note from David: This has to be top competitor for "joke of the month"

did point this out, you didn't.

Note from David: Oh my God! Did we really? We'll try harder next time.

It's just really, really boring to have malice spread at each at every occasion; no matter whether it's directed towards Fischer or Bush.
And it's just as boring and pointless to call Fischer a former left-wing streetfighter at any given oppurtunity, just as it is to call Bush an ex-alcoholic.

Note from David: Since practically no one else - in the German media - reminds readers/viewers of Fischer's past, we do it (occasionally). What a story - friend of former terrorists with dubious past visits burial ceremony of current terrorist! The German media missed it.
"Really, really boring": does that translate into "afromme will from now on abstain from visits of Davids Medienkritik"? Any hope for that?
Don't worry - we have a few people left who appreciate our style.

Note from David: Can you handle sarcasm, afromme?

I can.
In any case, simply labelling something as being "sarcasm" doesn't automatically legitimise it. Just because it's supposed to be sarcasm, doesn't mean it's a) funny b) making a point c) appropriate d) actually sarcasm in the 1st place.

SPIEGEL (a magazine far from left-wing these days anyways)

Note from David: This has to be top competitor for "joke of the month"

I'm afraid not.
If they really were that left-wing, they should support the legalisation of cannabis (which they don't), should not support most of what Hartz IV is about (which they do), should not run big stories on how bad wind energy and how good the large energy corporations are (which they did), run campaigns in co-operation with BILD to try to prevent the Rechtschreibreform (which they did), shouldn't basically criticise Schröder and support Stoiber as often as they do... could be continued ad infinitum.
[Yes, they do seem to have found a pet-hate in Angela Merkel.]

Mind you: I'm not saying it's a right-wing magazine, which it obviously isn't, despite the fact that some call it "liberal right-wing".
But the "left-wing" label definitely doesn't stick any more.

BTW - just because you're opposed to Bush doesn't mean you're left-wing. The London Times opposed/opposes Bush. Hardly a left-wing paper.


did point this out, you didn't.

Note from David: Oh my God! Did we really? We'll try harder next time.

You've got high standards that (german) media should meet, so I guess it's fair to expect you to not fall short of these standards, in particular to not neglect or ignore information.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, though.

It's just really, really boring to have malice spread at each at every occasion; no matter whether it's directed towards Fischer or Bush.
And it's just as boring and pointless to call Fischer a former left-wing streetfighter at any given oppurtunity, just as it is to call Bush an ex-alcoholic.

Note from David: Since practically no one else - in the German media - reminds readers/viewers of Fischer's past, we do it (occasionally). What a story - friend of former terrorists with dubious past visits burial ceremony of current terrorist! The German media missed it.

First - if it had really been THAT much of a story, at least BILD - who for quite some time used even the slightest opportunity to decredit Fischer (without much impact, mind you) - would've leaped onto it, especially as they were ever-so pleased about Arafat's death.

Second - You've circumnavigated my point: it's just pointless to remind people of that because there is nothing suggesting Fischer is still holding the same views he held back then, let alone supporting terrorists in any way. Also, he wasn't the only one attending Arafat's funeral. German media did generally point out that "Arafat was a terrorist with a Nobel peace price." Which given the circumstance he had just died, did have slightly more relevance IMHO.
It would be equally pointless to remind - as Michael Moore often does - people of GWB's dubious past as an alcoholic and a drunk driver. There's just no point as nothing suggests it's got any influence on how he conducts in the political arena.

Basically using the same tactics against Fischer (and others) that some people use against Bush doesn't make them any better IMHO.

BTW - not one syllable I wrote says that I thought it was a good idea for Fischer himself to attend the ceremony, nor that I'm really sad about Arafat's death.
I'm just not too keen on pouring malice over people, whichever political agenda they stick to. It's a bit tiresome - to me at least, but maybe I'm a simple mind with not enough grasp on things to be a judge on that anyways - to hold people's typos or other stuff that obviously doesn't influence their (professional/political) performance against them for ages.
So it's one thing to say
• Bush/Fischer isn't doing a good job.
but quite another to say
• Bush isn't doing a good job - but what to expect of a guy who used to be a drunk-driving alcoholic.
or
• Fischer isn't doing a good job - but what to expect of a former left-winger and terrorist-hugger.
respectively.

Then again, if you toned down your criticism nobody would read it any more, so I see where you're coming from.

"Really, really boring": does that translate into "afromme will from now on abstain from visits of Davids Medienkritik"? Any hope for that?

That depends on how much boredom I want to submit myself to at any given moment.

Don't worry - we have a few people left who appreciate our style.

Good on you then.

@Pamela
Well, you guys know me, and you know I won't bullshit. What happened to the U.S. guy William Burns? I can't find anything about how he was treated. So, my take is not that Fischer was snubbed, it is that these people can't even organize a one-car funeral. With 2 weeks advance notice.

I second that one :-)

Also shows it's more sensible to send somebody further down the hierarchy - nobody really cares what happens to them.

afromme,


as your internet-name already indicates, you seem to be a saint with very, very high intellectual and moral standards: Congratulations! Concerning ethos and intellectual "on-the-one-hand-on-the-other-hand-justice" we cannot even compete with you; we are simply no match for you. Sorry, our fault, our sarcasm did not meet your high-brow expectations.

Disingenious and biased as we are, we are immoral to the point to condemn one of the bloodiest terrorists of the last century; we are so simple that we are simply overwhelmed by indignation and disgust watching Fischer who came to Egypt to humbly revere the dead PLO-leader, i.e. to humiliate himself/Germany, only to be, then, himself humiliated by these PLO-assassins, his true, but our false friends. No, they did not want to humiliate him, they simply did it, without premeditation, simply not caring about Fischer and Ben Wisch who did not count so much, who were deemed to be "marginal", a quantité négligeable.


"I´m just not keen on pouring malice over people, whichever political agenda they stick to"

-Noble, very noble, afromme ... err ... btw: is beheading persons, fostering antisemitism, furthering suicide-bombings, corruption etc. a political agenda? You may indifferently hover beyond committment, decision and, yes, sympathy with Israel, a democracy under attack, attacked by islamofscists, by Arafat, his staunch friends (J. Fischer) and his heirs ...

You may do so, I respect it, but I do not respect terrorists and those (Schröder/Blüm) who glorify them: No dialectic justice; I am and we are injust enough/one-sided enough to defend our stance against evil and cruel killers for they are a real, not an intellectual or "idealistic" problem.

Perhaps Spiegel is not a left-wing magazine, but it is a nihilistic one; no principles, no values and -as a necessary consequence- no serious evaluation of GWB´s global politics: The tenor is:

-Politics is a dirty thing, a rat race of over-ambitious idiots (Flurfunk); democracy or islamofascism? -Marginal question, dirt remains dirt ...
-Islamism is (uiii, thrillingly!) dangerous; but not more dangerous than GWB or America herself.
-Not defending democracy is as irresponsible (actual title story), as defending or establishing it.


The terrorists left Fischer behind them; time for Fischer to leave terrorists and terrorism behind him; time for us to leave Fischer behind us: afromme, this is not a subtle or sophisticated analysis but it is at least a political stance.




@afromme

Does George W. Bush still drink? If he does, then your argument would make sense. But as far as I, or the public, could possible know, he doen't.

Joschka Fischer has a history of supporting and defeneding terrorists. Today, he continues to honor terrorists.


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