Nuanced European Diplomacy Works!

What a success of European nuanced diplomacy! The Press and Information Office of the Federal Government (of Germany)

Agreement with Iran / Tue, 11/16/2004 The German government welcomes the conclusion of an agreement between Germany, France, Great Britain (backed by the EU High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy), and Iran on November 15. Excerpts: ...an important step forward in the framework of global diplomatic efforts to curb the proliferation of nuclear weapons ... A key element is Iran's pledge to voluntarily suspend all activities involving uranium enrichment and reprocessing ... On this basis Germany, France, and Great Britain (with the support of the EU High Representative) will begin negotiations with Iran on a long-term agreement ... will conduct the negotiating process with great determination ... etc., etc., etc.... And of course, it's not about oil. I mean, this is Europe! It's about cell phones. Iran, Germany stress expansion of economic ties LONDON, Nov 18 (IranMania) - The Economy and Finance Minister Wednesday held a meeting with the German ambassador to Iran and underlined the promotion of commercial and economic ties between the two countries. ... (The German ambassador to Iran) Matzhan further said Iranian government`s efforts pertaining to the parliament`s recent measures on foreign contracts are positive. "The giant Siemens cell phone company is interested in investing in Iran`s mobile phone sector which we hope to launch soon by overcoming the outstanding obstacles," he stated. (emphasis added) (Click on pic to enlarge) / Source: Cox and Forkum Some folks are already trying to overcome outstanding obstacles...

Comments

[Sock Puppet of Doom]

When the bombs go off it will be in the lap of Europe.
You made a deal with people who stone 13 year old girls after giving them 85 lashes with a wip. People who hang women from cranes for not listing to religious leaders. How can you justify or trust any deal made with these people?

[Phil]

You might be right but does the US not deal with Saudi Arabia where the human rights record is just as bad?

Virtually all democratic countries need to redefine their foreign policies. Business interests should not be the priority.

[-keith in mtn. view]

Of course it'a about cell-phones, that's what they use for detonators...

I think it's a good idea for the French and Germans to get in bed with the mullahs. That way, when the Iranian people overthrow the mullahs, they will have a good idea which nations are exploiting their helplessness and which wish them a democratic future. Realpolitik, like all other European political systems, assumes people are stupid and incapable of governing themselves.

[Gabi]

Israel's Battle in Fallujah
Rashid Khashana Al-Hayat 2004/11/22

It has become clear that Israel played a major role in the battle for Fallujah, despite the American concern to conceal this fact. ... In conclusion, it is possible to say that the Likudniks, who control decision-making posts in America, are using Bush's campaign against terrorism as a cover-up to accomplish Israel's objectives in Iraq. Hence, the purpose of the Fallujah battle is to break the backbone of the resistance and pave the way for the completion of the Israeli plan.

http://english.daralhayat.com/opinion/OPED/11-2004/Article-20041122-611bf698-c0a8-10ed-002f-992445bfcb5c/story.html

[Transatlantiker]

European diplomacy... oh the horror. And Britain in it, what has the world come to?

If only one Medienkritiker could come up with an idea to solve the Iran crisis without blowing up the whole Middle East I'd be so willing to hear it.

Sorry, bombing the hell out of Iran and hoping that the students take out the mullahs is about as realistic as all those Iraqis turning up to shower U.S. troops with roses on their Thunder Run to Baghdad.

Nobody wants Iranian nukes. I don't know whether the diplomatic approach will work. But it's all we got right now.

What will definitely not work are sanctions and bombings. And a full blown invasion is simply nuts. And my guess is that Bush knows that. Whether it will stop him is another matter.

Faith moves mountains.

The Chinese will watch closely.

[hm]

Never mind any of other players or factors, this whole endeavour is doomed to fail simply because Javier Solana (i.e. the EU High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy) is involved.

[j a pate]

sorry, the german government communique is a bald faced lie. iran agreed to only to temporarily halt enrichment untill the full negotiations are completed. these maneuvers call for iran,s entry into WTO under the sponsership of britain, france, germany. once that is complete, iran will restart enrichment, under the november agreement.
also, the agreement details that britain, germany, and france will assist iran with construction of multiple light water breeder reactors. these reactor produce weapons grade bomb material as part of their by product. significant amounts can be drawn off for construction of bombs.
thus, the agreement is that britain, france, and germany agree to iran's nuclear bomb building activities and agree to assist it, in turn for trade agreements. someone mentioned the chinese. yes the chinese have also entered into an agreement with iran in a similar spirit.
you have to love a person like gabi whose concept of wisdom is that something must be done, but under no circumstances is force a possible alternative. thus, nothing will be done.
the british, french, and german initiative is designed to produce one result, a nuclear armed iran. official iranians statements are that they will use nuclear weapons as quickly as possible to destroy israel. this is probably a bluff, but what it certainly means is that iran will be free to attack israel and expand worldwide terrorist operations with a nuclear deterrent as backup. this is a prescription for war. also, which among us is prepared to bet out lives that it is only a bluff.
the german way out would be to send the iranians large amounts of money and beg them to hit someone else. but i doubt if the u.s. and israel will choose that course. of course, since we are vastly more wealthy than germany and have real militaries,, perhaps we could convince the mullahs that a campa

[j a pate]

sorry, the german government communique is a bald faced lie. iran agreed to only to temporarily halt enrichment untill the full negotiations are completed. these maneuvers call for iran's entry into WTO under the sponsership of britain, france, germany. once that is complete or not, iran will restart enrichment, under the november agreement.
also, the agreement details that britain, germany, and france will assist iran with construction of multiple light water breeder reactors. these reactor produce weapons grade bomb material as part of their by product. significant amounts can be drawn off for construction of bombs.
thus, the agreement is that britain, france, and germany agree to iran's nuclear bomb building activities and agree to assist it, in turn for trade agreements. someone mentioned the chinese. yes the chinese have also entered into an agreement with iran in a similar spirit and will invest $70 billion.
the british, french, and german initiative is designed to produce one result, a nuclear armed iran. iran's public statements on the matter agree with this conclusion.
official iranians statements are that they will use nuclear weapons as quickly as possible to destroy israel. this is probably a bluff, but what it certainly means is that iran will be free to attack israel and expand worldwide terrorist operations with a nuclear deterrent as backup. this is a prescription for war. also, which among us is prepared to bet out lives that it is only a bluff.
the german way out would be to send the iranians large amounts of money and hope they leave them alone, similar to the current deal. but i doubt if the u.s. and israel will choose that option. of course, since we are vastly more wealthy than germany and have real militaries,, perhaps we could convince the mullahs that a campaign agains germany and europe would be more profitab

[j a pate]

sorry, the german government communique is not true. iran agreed to only to temporarily halt enrichment untill the full negotiations are completed. these maneuvers call for iran's entry into WTO under the sponsership of britain, france, germany. once that is complete or not, iran will restart enrichment, under the november agreement.
also, the agreement details that britain, germany, and france will assist iran with construction of multiple light water breeder reactors. these reactor produce weapons grade bomb material as part of their by product. significant amounts can be drawn off for construction of bombs.
thus, the agreement is that britain, france, and germany agree to iran's nuclear bomb building activities and agree to assist it, in turn for trade agreements. someone mentioned the chinese. yes the chinese have also entered into an agreement with iran in a similar spirit and will invest $70 billion.
the british, french, and german initiative is designed to produce one result, a nuclear armed iran. iran's public statements on the matter agree with this conclusion.
official iranians statements are that they will use nuclear weapons as quickly as possible to destroy israel. this is probably a bluff, but what it certainly means is that iran will be free to attack israel and expand worldwide terrorist operations with a nuclear deterrent as backup. this is a prescription for war. also, which among us is prepared to bet out lives that it is only a bluff.
the german way out would be to send the iranians large amounts of money and hope they leave them alone, similar to the current deal. but i doubt if the u.s. and israel will choose that option. of course, since we are vastly more wealthy than germany and have real militaries,, perhaps we could convince the mullahs that a campaign agains germany and europe would be more profitable. a f

--"The giant Siemens cell phone company is interested in investing in Iran`s mobile phone sector which we hope to launch soon by overcoming the outstanding obstacles," --

So who's the major obstacle, the US or the black turbans?

Help us get rid of the black turbans and Siemens might get a piece of the contract.

[Transatlantiker]

Right, Siemens who is willing to relocate to China? Will Siemens send the troops?

[Gabi]

j.i. pate,
you wrote this about my position:
"you have to love a person like gabi whose concept of wisdom is that something must be done, but under no circumstances is force a possible alternative. thus, nothing will be done."

Where did I ever write this???

I think you misunderstood my postings. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Perhaps you did not read them all.

I support Bush's and Scharon's fight against terror. I thought this is clear where I am. Especially as a German I worry much about the mainstream here to demonize Scharon. I thought I made clear that we in Europe are victims of the Arab propaganda machinery.

I hate war and I am a coward but I support every US- and Israeli soldier who is part of this war against terror and silliness.

But of course I don't say: Bomb them all.

So please be fair with my opinion.

Sometimes war is the last method. In Iraq and Israel it is necessary. And I hope they will be successful. These soldiers are in mind all day. My husband was in the air force for 8 years. We are sad about each soldier and honor everybody who died for freedom and security in this world while we are sitting at home.

But to be successful you need the support of the world to stop terror. Here I see the problem that Europe is poisoned by unfair journalists who took the Arabs positions without thinking if they are right.

[Mike H.]

Gabi, those of us who read here everyday know you, don't worry about the passersthrough. If they come back often they'll learn.

Former Marine.

[Gabi]

Thank you, Mike, for your support.
--------
--------

I don't want this cut between the US and Germany and feel terrible about it. Germany is again on the wrong side. I saw Fischer's tears when he talked again about the holocaust what happened under Hitler and Nazi Germany. Tears are not enough, I am sorry to be so pitiless with Fischer. He lost his way. He is not strong enough to fight against all these propaganda. We are too close to France and gave up our support for Israel. Tears and words and money are not enough.

Nobody knows the history.
Nobody knows the facts.

Occupation power is all they know and repeat like monkeys.

Pisa showed it again where our children are. And it shows where our society is.

Nobody knows the facts about the Middle East but everybody knows that Scharon is evil.

Looks like Middle Age is back.

Yesterday I read some Arab news. I was deeply shocked. It is all about occupation. Occupation power Israel and occupation power USA in Iraq and USA as supporter of Israel.

So the media in Arab languages is a great problem what we should consider.

Are there Arab weblogs in English who come here and are interested in having contact?

[Phil]

@ Niko,

Yes, the Saudis don't built nuclear warheads but they stone women if they commit adultery. Women are not allowed to drive cars. The royal family is filthily rich while normal people do not see a lot of all the oil-money. I don't understand how you can deal with such a country, no matter if they got nuclear warheads or not.

[Chomskybot]

In Iran, there are two developments going on simultaneously: The struggle about democracy and human rights between conservative and liberal forces and the development of nuclear weapons. In contrast to Iraq, I trust the WMD allegations made be the U.S. now.
If I were the Iranian government, I would also have a desire for nuclear deterrence, because, well because Iran is one of the few countries that have been attacked with WMD (chemical weapons), during the Iran-Iraq war. And Iraq has been supported by Germany, France and the U.S. doing this. And now, the same U.S. have surrounded Iran with their troops.
However, this doesn't mean that I would support the Iranian nuclear program. Some Iranian leaders have already threatened Israel with a nuclear strike. So, I understand that Israel sees it as a life-threatening danger and I would consider an Osirak-style attack perfectly OK. I don't have anything against a purely Israeli attack that is directed only against the nuclear facilities.
But I don't think the U.S. should attack Iran in the near future. The majority of Iranians is friendly towards the U.S. and wishes the regime to be overthrown, but this does't mean that they would embrace the idea of a war for regime change. Being pro-american and supporting regime change doesn't mean supporting a war for regime change. Maybe the U.S. get it this time. And because 70 percent of the Iranian people wish better relations with the U.S. (a survey conducted by the Iranian government) the U.S. have even more symphathy to lose in case of a war. Waging war against Iran is the most efficient measure for an increase of anti-americanism in Iran, in the Middle East and in the whole world.
And it's strange that the U.S. are pointing on the Iranian human-rights situation as long as they are allied with Saudi-Arabia and Pakistan. In Saudi-Arabia, women are not even allowed to drive while 63% of the Iranian students are female and women are doing almost any kind of job. Saudi-Arabia honered the Taliban regime whereas Iran supported the fight against it since 1998. Iran supports Palestinian terrorism but Saudi-Arabia is in this business, too.
In Iran, there are definitely the most interesting attempts to reform Islam from the inside. War would do heavy damage to them. Iran is the first country that got to know fundamentalism and maybe the first country to overcome it.

[Chomskybot]

@Niko:
Saudi-Arabia would quickly have access to the Pakistani nuclear weapons. There were some deals.

[James]

You are all wrong about Saudi Arabia.

"...long as they [USA] are allied with Saudi-Arabia"
"You might be right but does the US not deal with Saudi Arabia where the human rights record is just as bad?"

But, perhaps you are all beginning to understand and see the region of the middle east as a whole. There is no more US "relationship" with Saudi-Arabia; at best, there is a new cold-war relationship. At the insistence of the Saudi government, just prior to the invasion of Iraq, the US moved all of its troops out of the holy kingdom.

You have to start understanding the actions of the US government in a LONG TERM analysis and through the prism of 9/11. Middle eastern, mostly Arab, terrorists wanted to over-throw Saudi Kingdom. But they could not do this without creating the perception of a threat to the Saudi kingdom to rally a jihad. Unseat the ruling family with mujahadin once a war had starting between the US and Saudi Arabia ( who, ironically, was also financing these same Whahabi radicals ). This was Bin Laden's thinking behind 9/11, also the reason why he put so many Saudis on the planes, he wanted a war between the USA and Saudi Arabia.

By attacking Saudi Arabia, the USA would be doing Bin Laden a favor, the US didn't fall for his trap. Attempting to persuade the Saudis immediately following 9/11 to effectively stop financing terrorists, was met on deaf Arab ears, after all the Saudis share one thing in common with Bin Laden, they are both Whahabis. It was like asking a horse to permanently walk on two legs: impossible without due persuasion. Instead, the US opted for a different strategy.

The long-term goals of the US in the Middle East are the conclusion of the observation: you cannot have stability/security as long as there is no democracy. You cannot have security whilst also financing Whahabi extremists who are not progressive not desire a democracy. To bring about the desired results from the Saudi government, a crackdown on terrorists, the US started an invasion plan of Iraq to install at least, a semblance of a democracy. Funnily, after many denials, the Saudis started to discover terrorists within their territory. This was part of the strategy at work, no one made this observation in the media.

Regarding the issue of Iran obtaining Nuclear Weapons, they're going to, regardless of silly "publicity events" by Britain, Germany and France to help conclude otherwise. Russia is playing an even more short-termed perfidious game in helping Iran build nuclear reactors: just plain stupidity (but then again, that's Russia for you!). Furthermore, I am not sure Iran would observe IEAE findings or UN Security Council resolutions to halt their unwavering desire for the bomb. What to do? Well, so long as the French continue to obfuscate at ever instance their desire to poo-poo the US, I don't think there is much. Worse still, as long as Berlin serves as the lap-dog of Chirac, then most of Europe has gone soft and will be bent to the will of the Iranian Mullahs. To stress this point, were their any protocols in the agreement between Iran and the Euro-three to the point of Iran: 1) Hezbolah (financing terror), 2) Iranian human rights, 3) Melding with Iraq : as part of the nuclear agreement? This is not diplomacy, this is just appeasement! Germany has only commercial interests in Iran, not the rights of the people, this is shameful! So Europe, please don't lecture the US when it comes to human rights, the French and Germans will do business with anyone ( Cuba anyone? ).

The middle east is a caldron of problems, with a very violent history. Unless the Middle East is repaired, as we saw with 9/11 and Madrid, it will continue to cause problems around the world. Europeans complaining about the high valuation of the EURO vis-a-vis the USD will only be met with deaf ears in the American administration. And rightly so, the USA is on a war-footing, like it or not they have other priorities. The US could correct the deficit if it wanted to, easily, but it's not going to : a high EURO is a European problem, not theirs. Furthermore, the high valuation of oil is nothing in comparison as to a 9/11 repeat or worse still. So, it's about time that Germany, France, Russia and the other likes of you respond by helping to solve the middle eastern problem.

You know doing NOTHING is by default, doing something. This is a tacit nod to the terrorists and Mullahs.

[afromme]

a) @James: it's not chiefly a high EURO (if everything in Europe is as bad as people here tend to claim - what would substantiate a high EURO?), it's a low USD. Which is the US's problem.

b) you are seriously suggesting that mobile phones are as big money as oil is AND you are suggesting that France, Germany and the UK made an agreement with Iran because they wanted to help German company Siemens - which is a big company, alas not a giant cell phone company - get a footing in Iran's mobile phone market???
Those three can't even agree on what sockets and plugs to use when using a blender or recharging a mobile phone! For France, it's not okay to have a German company owning the company building their TGV train; France and Germany (and to a lesser extent the UK as well) can't really agree on where to assemble the Airbus (although ONE assembly line would be way more efficient) but you seriously believe they agree to strike a deal so Siemens Mobile can profit?

You've got to be kidding...

[James]

@afromme

Do you not read newspapers? Europe released economic growth figures last week and showed that economic growth had slowed considerably. Many economists attribute this to the devaluatoion of the USD.

There was a considerable drop in exports from Germany to the US due to the weaking dollar. The lower USD lowers the cost of American products in Europe, but I guess you knew that, here's the recent article from the Economist

HOPES that the euro-area's economies might be perking up have been dashed by the latest GDP figures. The area grew at an annual rate of only 1.2% in the third quarter, half as fast as in the first half of 2004. The two biggest economies, France and Germany, grew at annual rates of only 0.4%, compared with 3.7% in America. Not only is domestic spending still weak; exports, hitherto the main driver of growth, have slowed. Fears are mounting that another rise in the euro could tip Europe's economies back into recession.

Continue reading here : Europeans might consider it unfair if America escapes the consequences of its past profligacy at their expense

" it's not chiefly a high EURO"

No, you're right, it's also due to pathetic economic demand in Euroland which already produces more than it consumes. Thank the Americans for going extra into debt so they can buy their sons the GI Joe with the kung-foo grip this Chritsmas. And, and, and...

[Sock Puppet of Doom]

Just for clarification Siemens in not a big companmy it's a huge company :) I went through my house lookng at all the items that are Siemens product's. I counted about 15 "consumer products" , just behind my count of GE products. About all of them were made in Mexico or China.

The attempts the that UK, France and Germany are making to get the mad Iranian theocrats to be reasonable about nuclear energy are not helpful. The only acceptable path the theocrats could take is to shut it all down. Anything short of this is unhelpful. We are talking about a government that has repeated vowed to destroy "America' and Israel. People who think like that can't be trusted to abide by their word. Adding a Iran with nuclear weapons to the middle east is not going to be helpful to world peace of stability.

[afromme]

@james

Do you not read newspapers?

No, actually.

Europe released economic growth figures last week and showed that economic growth had slowed considerably.

I still knew that, though.

Which is exactly my point - European economy isn't really booming at the moment. So it's not so much a case of "high Euro" as you put it, but a case of a weak dollar. As even the US seem to agree.

And which should come as reassuring to those who firmly believe Europe can't do anything decent of its own, as it's not a European strength but an American weakness we're witnessing.

[Sock Puppet of Doom]

I am hoping the Oil Cartel goes to Euros. I am hoping that China goes to the Euro as well. Good luck to the EU.

[Tyranno]

James Posts:
"Regarding the issue of Iran obtaining Nuclear Weapons, they're going to, regardless of silly "publicity events" by Britain, Germany and France to help conclude otherwise...."

"The middle east is a caldron of problems, with a very violent history. Unless the Middle East is repaired, as we saw with 9/11 and Madrid, it will continue to cause problems around the world..."

"You know doing NOTHING is by default, doing something. This is a tacit nod to the terrorists and Mullahs."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think the Europeans here are behaving in accordance with their own historical precedence. They have a well documented history of trusting pen and ink "agreements" and "treaties" that put the pink in their fluffy cotton candy thinking and that allows them to prance and preen and feign for the euro~public that they are "diplomatique" as they push real problems down the road.
The fruits of their cynical exertions, their little feigned circle jerk, is that when someone comes along and really causes change, really move the ball down the road, really rearranges the world road map, it scares the crap out of them and they all demand that it stop.
This is why they (pretend) are nostalgic for Clinton. He was the perfect euro politician! He talked endlessly about everything, but he and the euros were very comfortable knowing that he really intended to do nothing. The islamofascists also saw and were comfortable with this (that the clinton era did not respond) and have executed their plans accordingly.
But jerking off ain't sex and history is not/ will not be kind to the clinton era. Like the euro leaders today, he and they are empty space fillers, warm fuzzy little asides that will be swept away by the tide of history and the arrival on the scene of real leaders.
The difference between the U.S. and Europe is ~ in Europe you always have to keep your eye on them to ensure that more 'complex and sophisticated' population doesn't put the next/ another "little corporal" in office.

The Euros are practicing their usual flaccid appeasement, they are riding on the back of the proverbial tiger, hoping that they will be eaten last.
But the stakes have been raised by technology and I don't think we can afford to continue to play this ancient and very dangerous eurogame.

Tyranno

[Joe]

Phil,

If you are German I might ask you the question you asked Niko.

From I have seen of the leadership in Berlin they will deal with anyone who will buy German products or support their UN dreams.