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Meanwhile, this is what Spiegel Online's new international edition thinks about Iran:

"And which poses a greater danger for world peace: weapons of mass destruction in the hands of Islamic terrorist states or an arrogant US superpower that goes to war unilaterally wherever and whenever it wants?
[...]
Whether the winner is John Kerry or George W. Bush, fears are growing in Germany about its friends across the Atlantic."

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,324165,00.html

1961, not 1962, according to your link.

Note from David: Thanks, Martin. Corrected it.

This goes along with one of my theories about why the French elite so hates America.

Despite popular American legend, D-Day did not save France from the Nazis -- The Russians had already defeated the Nazis, and it was ust a matter of time. The US and UK could have continued their subsidies to the USSR, and the war would have lasted maybe 6 months longer.

No, D-Day saved France from the bolsheviks. And THAT I think is what the French Left has never forgiven us for.

Dear BSC,

What drugs are you currently using? I would like to try some!

You say that Russia had already defeated Germany and needed only 6 months more to finish the job?

According to my history books, the US and UK first landed in Northern France in June, and then again in Southern France in August 1944. We then fought the decisive Battle of the Bulge in December.

According to your timeline, the war would have been over in December WITHOUT the US & UK getting involved.

How does that square with the war in Europe, with US & UK troops, ending 11 months after D-Day?????

It is bad enough when I have to listen to the Eurotrash deny the Holocaust. It is ten times worse when I have to be subjected to this historical revisionism about the Russians winning the war!

BTW - lets take a quick look at Russian military history in the 20th century:

1905 Japan defeats Russia
1917 Germany defeats Russia
1941 Germany invades Russia in complete surprise
1988 Afghanistan defeats Russia
1991 US wins Cold War, Soviet Union disintegrates
2004 Chechnya continues to kick Russia's ass

Hey that's almost as good a record as the French!

I should have made it clear -- the 6 months was six months AFTER the end of the war -- so I assume the war would have been over by November 1945.

And this assumes continued US/UK fighting in Italy and in Greece, contrinued threat of invasion in the West, AND most importantly, the contrinuted US/UK assistance to the USSR.

Most of the dead in the European War died on the Eastern front.

This does not belittle the sacrifices of the Western allies. It is just realism.

BSC,

Thanks for making your comments clearer. I no longer think you are on drugs. Now I just think you have no knowledge of military history!

You are using the worst possible statistic for determining military success or defeat! The number of dead soldiers is not appropriate in this context at all.

You might want to see the movie Enemy at the Gates to see what I mean. At least the first half hour of the movie, before it changes from a great combat film to a lame love story!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0215750/

American forces had the BEST officers, BEST soldiers, BEST equipment, and BEST training. Therefore we had less dead and wounded than the Russians did. That is reality!

WE FOUGHT SMARTER, NOT HARDER!

One last example, before I quit for the weekend. US troops used mine detectors in WW2. Russian troops used low ranking infantrymen, if you catch my drift!!!!!!

To claim the Russians did more than the US because they had more KIA, is a very weak thesis.

Sorry to be so harsh with my views, but I refuse to stand by and see someone promote a thesis which is not supported by facts!

What brave men that stood up to the Soviets! What a striking picture.

Greg posts:

"American forces had the BEST officers, BEST soldiers, BEST equipment, and BEST training. Therefore we had less dead and wounded than the Russians did. That is reality!

WE FOUGHT SMARTER, NOT HARDER!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Too true, but only after the British schooled our wonderfully naive young army in North Africa.
Roosevelt's correct calculation was that the British empire, having been at it for several years already, were reaching the end limits of their ability to replenish their army.
The British were great instructors teaching lessons written in their blood . . . and the fresh young Yanks were thankfully good students.
(And, luckily for the western world.)

Rick Atkinson's, "An Army at Dawn" is a fantastic book on America's entry into WWII. The first enemy America fought against in Africa was . . . France.
And what with all the blather being spewed these days about Iraq . . . consider:
- Japan attacked America,
- so America declared war on Germany,
- and initiated combat in Africa!!!

. . . perhaps a bit too much stra-teagggg-ery for the more "complex and sophisticated" amongst us.
Tyranno


@ Tyranno

In my opinion in the past (pre 1945) the British military were alarming sanguine about the waste of the lives of the men under their care and I consider them among the more responsible nationalities. One can imagine how appalled I am as an American to review the WWI causality records from the trenches or the Russian and German lists from the Eastern front in WWII. Sure we had plenty to learn from the British but there was just as much we were determined not to learn.

@ Wuldorblogger

"And which poses a greater danger for world peace: weapons of mass destruction in the hands of Islamic terrorist states or an arrogant US superpower that goes to war unilaterally wherever and whenever it wants?"

Hate to be this way about it, but this is not the concern of nations which have surrendered their ability to effect the outcome. Nations like Luxembourg are just along for the ride. The EU can be a US ally, US enemy or third pole what ever that means. All of these would give Europe more of a say in the world than all of this ineffectual posturing. Right now Germany and France have less influence in the world than Pakistan or Saudi because they have no way to effect the outcome. The EU is being dissed by Iran, a country that has yet to master indoor plumbing. How seriously are we supposed to take Chirac and Schroeder when even the Iranian are blowing them off?

I'm feeling a little contrarian tonight.

Just for a moment forget about the US contribution to WWII and the cold war. It was WWI that marked the beginning of the ascendancy of US power, our debut if you will on the bloody stage of Europe. It is there that for good or ill American influence must be judged. Could Versailles have been imposed on Germany without American assistance?

more here

Tyranno

Consider the facts

Japan attacked America
America declared war on Japan December 8
Germany declared war on the United States, December 11 in the am
The United States declared war on Germany, December 11, the the pm

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