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Does this mean headlines mentioning Schroeder being "under pressure" like Bush always is?

Perhaps I am too far removed from the refined inner workings of contemporary German politics, but I fail to see why the Greens, a party which appears to be composed largely of former and wanna-be Communists and Luddite environmentalists, is not considered "extremist"? Can anyone enlighten me - entweder auf Deutsch oder auf Englisch?

Extremism can only come from the 'right' or what is considered 'right'. The NPD, extremist, categorized neo-Nazi was called anti-American, anti-foreigner, anti-globalist and anti-market. How this is different from the PDS (former East German commies) or the tiny West German commie grouplets is a question. I guess the difference is that NPD, DVU, etc are nationalist, while the Greens, SPD, PDS, etc hate Germany.

In the eastern States, the NPD etc. share voters with the PDS and SPD. You see it easy to go from SPD/PDS to NPD. When the sozis don't give you enough stuff, you protest and scare the establish anti-American parties into giving you more stuff from taxpayers. The CDU/CSU ain't much better.

but I fail to see why the Greens, a party which appears to be composed largely of former and wanna-be Communists and Luddite environmentalists, is not considered "extremist"? Can anyone enlighten me - entweder auf Deutsch oder auf Englisch?

I wrote that extremists made no "major" gains. :)

Seriously, yes, you could argue that many Greens are quite extreme and indeed, many of them are. But generally speaking they are less extreme as a party than say the PDS or NPD.

---Ray D.

Is it wishful thinking on my part to see the drop in the SPD's numbers an indication that german's are tired of schroeder's "let's blame america for everything" approach?

@ optimist:

First of all, I don't think Schroeder is blaming America for "everything." He certainly has taken advantage of anti-American sentiments and exploited the Iraq issue for a very long time...I would say for far too long. The German people are still very skeptical of the US and Bush, but Schroeder's attempts to use that to his advantage are increasingly falling on deaf ears because the country is doing so poorly domestically.

Above all, Germans are tired of the SPD's inability to get the nation out of the state of economic stagnation in which it finds itself. They are also tired of the SPD's incompetence on issues like the highway toll system for trucks and the deposit system for cans and bottles, both of which were badly botched. Those on the far left are angry that the SPD is trying to reform the overburdened welfare and health care systems at all. Those are just a few reasons the SPD is a sinking ship.

---Ray D.

Mr Grumpy -- looking at it from a distance, it seems that the difference is that the Greens have reconciled themselves to the current German Constitution. The PDS and the various far-right parties have not.

Hence, the Greens are now an establishment party (they are in the national governing coalition after all). They joined the establishment when the realists defeated the idealists some 20 years ago for control of the party leadership. I could never imagine the PDS joining the SPD in coalition.

@grumpy (and ray)

die grünen als "extremistisch" zu bezeichnen ist völliger unsinn. sie bewegen sich innerhalb der freiheitlich demokratischen grundordnung und distanzieren sich klar von gewalt als mittel der politischen auseinandersetzung. das mag bei einigen mitgliedern vor 30 jahren anders gewesen sein (worauf hier im blog auch immer gerne ingewiesen wird), aber das spielt keine rolle zur beurteilung der grünen heute. einen ausführlichen artikel findet man hier:


ebenfalls in wikipedia zu finden: extremismus

Off Topic, aber gut:


Ein fairer und gut informierter Artikel über Bush. Für Deutsche ohne Scheuklappen.


Die Grünen waren nie im engeren Sinne des Wortes marxistisch, da sie

-der Wirtschaft
-der Technologie
-dem Wachstum
-den Naturwissenschaften

feindlich gegenübertstanden. Noch weniger waren sie real-sozialistisch, da sie

-dem Staat
-dem Militär
-jeglicher Institution

mit Verachtung begegne(te)n.

Die Grünen waren eher im schlechtesten Sinne des Wortes "liberal": Egozentrische Selbstverwirklichungs-Ideologie außerhalb des Ökonomischen beschreibt wohl ihr eigentlich vorherrschendes Motiv am besten; alles, was an gemeinschaftsstiftenden oder auf Gemeinschaft hin verpflichtenden Werten Bestand hatte, musste demnach vernichtet werden:

-Familie: Hohn auf spießige Ehe; freie Liebe; Homo-Ehe; Kommune
-Eltern: Aus dem Weg "Nazibande", jetzt kommen wir (komme ich)
-Tradition: Könnte mich bestimmen, liegt außer meiner Bestimmungs-Omnipotenz, ich aber bin Zarathustra-spontan und erfinde mich willkürlich je neu, nieder mit der Tradition, mit RE-LIGIO(N)etc.
-Sexualität: Geschlechtsumwandlung bei Bedarf; Sexualität als bloße Rolle/Life-style-Pos(s)e (Chrstopher-Street-Day)
-Kultur/Universität: Kanon/Hermeneutik -niemals! Stattdessen: M e i n Nietzsche, m e i n Dritte-Welt-Literat, m e i n Marx, m e i n Mao, m e i n Buddha etc.
-Nation: Bindet zu stark; statt dessen bindungsloser Cosmopolitismus bzw. alle Menschen sind mir gleich(gültig)
-bürgerliches Ethos: Bescheidenheit, Nüchternheit, Fleiß, gemessener Ehrgeiz? Weg damit, wir sind Genies und entwerfen Gesellschaften, Staaten und eine gerechte Welt vom Reißbrett etc. etc.

Die Grünen nehmen für ihre Person das in Anspruch, was Bloom in "The closing ..." als "clean slate" ironisiert hatte. Will man mehr über diese NEW-LEFT-Milieus erfahren, empfehle ich

I.Kristol: Capitalism, Socialism, and Nihilism, in: Neoconservatism 1995.

Of course, my comment was meant to be 'tongue in cheek,' not to be taken literally, I was just wondering how much of his current troubles stem from domestic affairs and how much from his handling of foreign affairs-not that any such reckoning could be precise, of course.

Unfortunately the troubles are only based on domestic reasons - foreign affairs policy is still being backed by the mayority of the germans.
Don´t forget that the most popular politician in Germany is by far Mr. Fischer.
Und damit ist eigentlich alles gesagt.

In politcal terms, just about everywhere in the world Green = Red. Red has been discredited and has failed miserably, so they try to change their issues, but not their agenda.

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