« WILL OUR CHILDREN BE THE NEXT TO DIE? | Main | Fleeing Children Shot in the Back, Blown Apart and Burned to Death »

Comments

Thomas,

You have hit upon the great failure of the elites in Europe. They tend to want to judge and react to events and to other nations as if they were happening in say Sweden. They and you want to hold Russia to a western standard but it is not a western developed nation. It is trying and there is going to be both progress and setback in this development.

Some nations like the US tread the world as it finds it not as it wishes it to be.

In the case of terror many of the European nations and most of their citizens just pretend that they are dealing with reasonable people, who happen to be terrorists. If Europe can some how deal with the “root causes” of this angry, then they will be safe. If they can some how show and demonstrate to these people that they do not have a dog in this fight then maybe they will be spared.

Well that is just not the way the world works. It is not the world we all live in. It might be the fantasy world that Europeans live in but then again they live in a world where the welfare state and social justice are more important than liberty, nationalism, freedom, and individual responsibility.

So for the Germans and the french go to bed tonight thinking what is happening all around you will not visit your nation. Do not think of what you can do to stop this just think of how if it were not for some nations all the world could be living in peace.

Thomas, your attitude demostartes the difference between America and her allies and those of the franco-German Alliance.


As far as I see it, the major difference is this:

Americans think they can change the world for the better. That's why I support President Bush, who stands for that vision. That's why I supported the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. That's why I support the democratization of the Greater Middle East. And that's why I support the war on terrorism.

A lot of Germans and French want to maintain the status quo so that they can have "peace" and somehow be spared. That's why I was (and am mad) at them for not seeing the real nature of Saddam Hussein's regime or of Osama bin Laden and his terrorist allies. I do believe this is a war. I do believe we are all part of it. I do believe this is the case regardless of what we did then and what we do now.

Still, exactly because I believe in freedom and democracy, Mr. Putin's record is something I am very concerned about. I want the Russian people to live in a free country. I don't think Mr. Putin is heading in that direction. And I will say so when I think I should do it. So I did.

To interpret this as a justification for what those beasts did, or to claim I were talking about "root causes", although I did in fact clearly reject that argumentation, is plain wrong. If you still want to believe it, do it. I know I don't think that way. And that's enough for me to be able to sleep well at night.

Hey Everybody,

I know you are all angry right now, as am I. I just ask you to treat each other with respect in this forum. Thomas made a point and spoke his mind and I don't appreciate people here saying he is for the terrorists or even implying it in any way. His point might not have displayed the best timing and that may be a legitimate point to make against him and everyone here should feel free to make it. But anyone who has ever read his blog or his work on this site cannot make the kinds of negative remarks that have been made here and expect me to accept it.

So please, cut Thomas some slack, we value his work. And if at all possible, keep the conversation civil. Thanks...

---Ray D.

If this conversation doesn't settle down soon I will close the comments section. Let's avoid personal attacks and put our energy into debating the issues.

---Ray D.

SFC Ski,

I for one have never made any statement about this. I will limit myself, I have never known an American President wanting to sent our military into harms way.

Equally, I have never known anyone in the American military who wanted to go into harms way.

Having said that, thank God, we as a nation which has both. Both presidents who have the courage to make these decisions and citizens who are willing to execute those decisions.

This is what makes America and Americans so different than most of the other nations in the world. Today, it stands in stark comparison and contrast to both the leadership in Germany and the German people.

I have written about it on a regular basis, on this site's comments section and in my own blog, ever since I have been following blogs and have started my own one. Because it's a matter that's important for me.

Joe, very good point: Some nations like the US treat the world as it finds it not as it wishes it to be

That's the problem with Western Europe. They still dream of living in a socialist Utopia and they are convinced that a few more funds into cultural exchange will end global terrorism. In EU the most effective way of dealing with reality is denying it. And then, when it hits you, you simply point to anyone else but the evil doers.

Hi thought this would be of interest. I found the following paragraph most telling:

But the main thing is mobilisation of the nation before a common danger. Events in other countries have shown that terrorists received the most effective rebuff where they encounter not only the power of the state but an organised, united civil society.


Excerpts from Putin's address


"We have failed" - President Putin

President Putin addressed the Russian nation on television on Saturday. Excerpts from his remarks:

It's difficult to speak, and it's bitter. A terrible tragedy has occurred in our land.

Over all these last few days, each of us has suffered profoundly and experienced in our hearts everything which happened in the Russian town of Beslan, where we came up against not just murderers, but people who used their weapons against defenceless children.

And today, I am addressing first and foremost, with words of support and sympathy, those people who lost the dearest thing in life - their children.

I am asking you to remember all those who died at the hands of terrorists in the last few days. Russia's history has seen many tragic pages and grave ordeals.

Today we are living in conditions which have emerged following the break-up of a vast great state, a state which unfortunately turned out to be unable to survive in the context of a rapidly changing world. But despite all the difficulties, we have managed to preserve the core of the colossus which was the Soviet Union.

And we called the new country the Russian Federation. We all expected changes, changes for the better. But we have turned out to be absolutely unprepared for much that has changed in our lives...

Failure

On the whole, we have to admit that we have failed to recognise the complexity and dangerous nature of the processes taking place in our own country and the world in general. In any case, we have failed to respond to them appropriately.

We showed weakness, and the weak are trampled upon. Some want to cut off a juicy morsel from us while others are helping them.

They are helping because they believe that, as one of the world's major nuclear powers, Russia is still posing a threat to someone, and therefore this threat must be removed.

And terrorism is, of course, only a tool for achieving these goals. But as I have already said many times, we have faced crises, mutinies and acts of terror more than once.

But what has happened now, this crime of the terrorists, inhuman, unprecedented in terms of its cruelty, is not a challenge to the president, to parliament or to the government.

This is a challenge to the whole of Russia, to the whole of our people, this is an attack on our country.

The terrorists believe they are stronger than us, that they will be able to intimidate us with their cruelty, that they will be able to paralyse our will and demoralize our society.

And it would appear that we have a choice of resisting them or agreeing to their claims, surrendering, allowing them to destroy and split Russia, in the hope that they will finally leave us in peace.

As president, the head of the Russian state - the person who swore an oath to defend the country and its territorial integrity - and simply as a citizen of Russia, I am convinced that in reality we simply have no choice.

Because if we allow ourselves to be blackmailed and if we give in to panic, we will submerge millions of people into endless and bloody conflicts like those in Karabakh, in the Dniester region, and other well-known tragedies we know only too well.

One cannot fail to see the obvious. We are dealing here not just with separate actions aimed at frightening us, not just with separate terrorist sorties.

We are dealing with direct intervention of international terrorism against Russia, with a total, cruel and full-scale war in which our compatriots die again and again.

The entire world experience shows that these wars, unfortunately, do not end quickly.

In these conditions, we simply cannot, we must not live as carelessly as we have done until now. We must create a more effective security system, demand from our law-enforcement bodies actions which are appropriate to the level and scale of the new threats that have emerged.

Mobilisation

But the main thing is mobilisation of the nation before a common danger. Events in other countries have shown that terrorists received the most effective rebuff where they encounter not only the power of the state but an organised, united civil society.

Fellow countrymen, the aim of those who sent the bandits to carry out this horrific crime was to divide our people, to frighten the Russian citizens, to unleash a fratricidal bloodbath in the North Caucasus. However , in this respect I have the following to say.

First, in the near future a range of measures to strengthen the unity of the country will be prepared.

Second, I think it is essential to create a new system for coordinating the forces and resources controlling the situation in the North Caucasus.

Third, it is essential to set up an effective, crisis management system, including a fundamentally new approach to the actions of the law-enforcement agencies.

I stress that all these measures shall be carried out in full compliance with the country's constitution...

It is impossible to become reconciled to the anguish of the loss. But the ordeals have brought us even closer together and made us re-evaluate many things. Today we must be together. This is the only way for us to defeat the enemy.

BBC Monitoring, based in Caversham in southern England, selects and translates information from radio, television, press, news agencies and the Internet from 150 countries in more than 70 languages.


@ Niko

Let me put all this in the proper context, because perhaps that may help you to understand why I brought this up at all.

Just one or two days before all of this happened, there was one of these disgusting France/Germany/Russia summits, which have the sole purpose of evoking the image of some kind of "counterweight" to the US, the self-appointed "axis of peace" from the Iraq debate.

Some days before that there was a farce of an election in Chechnya and there was Chancellor Schröder saying that there was nothing to worry about the proceedings.

Both of these things are also the topic of the posting on my blog I linked to.

Then there was an article and an editorial in the "Frankfurter Rundschau" about German foreign aid minister Wieczorek-Zeul calling the war in Iraq a crime. This happened only some hours after Schröder had hugged Putin once again without mentioning anything of his troubling record and even defending it for Putin who stood and watched. I wrote a very angry letter to the editor to the "FR" about that. (I also sent a copy to Ray, he can confirm that.)

All this was before Beslan.

And then I read this thread and got the impression that some comments were near the point of giving Mr. Putin a blank check, which is one thing that I really can't stand, because I think he is doing his people no good service on a number of matters. That interpretation of mine may have been over the top. Reading it all for a second time, I don't exactly see it that way anymore. But I did so at the time.

And I really didn't think it could come across like it did. Had I known that, I would indeed have shut up for the time being. But I knew that this blog has often criticised Mr. Putin in earlier times, and I knew that I agree with most of its readers on a vast amount of things, so I thought that those reading it would understand what I mean. SleapyInSeattle did. You and others didn't. And then you called me a supporter of terrorism which is certainly among the five worst names anyone could call me by. And that really made me angry, especially because it came from people I normally do agree with on most things.

Perhaps this help to clarify my point of view. If you still think I'm OBLs ideological brother, I can't change it. But I hope you don't.

Thanks Trish.
I sure with Febis published online too.

rootcausing EU

"
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia has described as "blasphemous" a request by the European Union for an explanation to the bloody end to a mass hostage seizure at a school by Chechen gunmen.

More than 320 people, almost half of them children were found dead after troops stormed a school in the southern Russian town of Beslan, where the separatists held more than 1,000 hostages for 53 hours.

In a statement in the name of the presidency of the 25-nation EU, Dutch Foreign Minister Bernard Bot said on Friday that all countries should work together to stop such tragedies.

"But we also would like to know from the Russian authorities how this tragedy could have happened," he added.

The Russian Foreign Ministry reacted with outrage on Saturday.

"Mr. Bot's elaborations are an absolute contrast with the wide international support and solidarity with Russia in these tragic days," the ministry statement said.

"Inappropriate statements by the Dutch minister look odious ... and blasphemous," it added. "We expect explanations from the Dutch side."

Interfax news agency later said that the Dutch ambassador had been summoned to the Foreign ministry over Bot's statement.
"
And this is what SpON leaves:

Der Vorsitzende des EU-Außenministerrats, der niederländische Außenminister Bernard Bot, hatte am Vortag von einer "schrecklichen menschlichen Tragödie" gesprochen.
www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,316717,00.html

Ein äußerst lesenswerter Artikel in der "Welt am Sonntag", wenn er auch nicht direkt, wohl aber indirekt mit dem Ereignis in Russland zu tun hat. Die Bedrohung durch den Islamfaschismus ist real:

Der terroristische Dschihad hat am 11. September 2001 seinen Scheitelpunkt erreicht
Drei Jahre nach dem 11. September ist die Führung von Al Qaida reduziert, Saddam Hussein gestürzt, Muammar Al Gaddafi friedlich. Israel bleibt der einzige westliche Staat, der in seiner Existenz bedroht ist. Dem Westen bleibt nur "heroische Gelassenheit" im Umgang mit der islamistischen Aggression

http://www.wams.de/data/2004/09/05/328514.html

It would be too kind to call those babykillers terrorists.

Downer,
danke für den Artikel von Alan Posener.

Diesen Satz verstehe ich allerdings nicht von ihm:

"Aber die Konservativen haben schon im 20. Jahrhundert mit ihrer klammheimlichen Bewunderung für Faschisten, Nationalsozialisten und zuweilen auch Stalinisten und Maoisten sowie mit ihrem Pessimismus und Selbsthass danebengelegen."

Meiner Meinung nach sind nicht die "Konservativen", die hier klammheimlich mit stark erscheinenden Terroristen sympathisieren, sondern der "normal liberal" denkende Mensch und zwar weltweit. Sympathisieren finde ich auch nicht das richtige Wort, sondern die Gefahr ist, daß sie die Gefahr nicht wahrnehmen und nicht wahrnehmen wollen. man sammelt alle Informationen, die gegen die USA und Israel sprechen und trompetet alles in die Welt hinaus, was diese beiden falsch gemacht haben oder gemacht haben könnten, wobei man vergißt, daß ALLE Fehler machen, alle Regierungen aller Länder, nur die Terroristen analysiert man nicht, man ignoriert, verdrängt, alles nicht so schlimm, man informiert sich gar nicht, was Bin laden 1998 angedroht hat, darüber will man gar nichts wissen, wenn Bush der Böse ist, kann man gut weiterschalfen, weil man ja tief im Innern weiß, daß dieser es gar nicht ist. Aber wenn Bin Laden tatsächlich so ist, wie Bush, Blair und andere ihn beschreiben, dann ist die Welt schwer auszuhalten.

Frauen, die Kindern in den Rücken schießen, das ist so schwer zu begreifen wie die Judenvernichtung durch Menschen in Deutschland.

Daß Bin Laden den Juden und USA den Krieg erklärt hat, realisieren die liberal denkenden nicht, sie WISSEN es gar nicht, wollen es nicht wissen, dann können sie nämlich ihr ruhiges kleines Leben weiterführen. Wer will schon "Unannehmlichkeiten"? Durchsuchungen, Überprüfungen, Verdächtigungen, wie lästig. Überwachungsstaat, wie schrecklich. Das empört. Frauen, die Kindern in den Rücken schießen? Das wollen sie gar nicht denken, begreifen, durchdenken, zu Ende denken, was das bedeutet.

Das müssen wir aber sehen, wissen und begreifen.

Wie hätte man diese Kinder retten können? Hätte man diese Kinder durch Überwachung und Kontrolle retten können, diese Attacke vermeiden können, verdammt, ich es es in Kauf genommen, daß ich überwacht und kontrolliert werde. Mich schreckt das Wort Überwachung nicht so sehr wie das Töten unschuldiger Kinder. Was ist das bißchen Kontrolle gegen das Leiden dieser Menschen? Wir müssen endlich anfangen zu diskutieren, ob wir nicht bereit sind, für die Sicherheit ALLER einen Preis zu zahlen. Es waren jetzt russische Kinder. Ist das nicht so egal, aus welchem Land. Sind es nicht einfach nur Kinder?

Ich muß an die jüdischen Kinder denken, die die Deutschen mitleidslos gequält und getötet haben, massenweise. Wäre das zu verhindern gewesen?
Hilft nicht die Analyse dieser unmenschlichen Taten auf deutschem Boden, zu entscheiden, wir man mit unmenschlichen Menschen umgeht, umgehen muß, aus Verantwortung den anderen gegenüber?

Gab es eine Methode, ein Mittel, Hitler und die Nazis in Deutschland zu verhindern? Hätte man die Juden anders als durch Gewalt retten können? Vielleicht hilft die Beantwortung dieser Frage bei der Antwort, wie man den derzeitigen Menschen, die Unmenschliches tun, begegnet, wie man sie stoppt.


Hätte man die Deutschen, die Juden gesammelt, erniedrigt, ihrer Existenz beraubt, nackt in Haufen endlich erschossen haben, in Kammern getrieben getötet haben, die ihre Zähne, Haut und Haare gesammelt und benutzt haben, hätte man mit denen einen Dialog führen müssen über Menschlichkeit, über Toleranz gegen Juden, über den Wert eines jeden Menschenleben? Hätten all die, die beteiligt waren, einen Kurs in Friedensdenken absolvieren müssen? Hätten wir mit denen Mitleid haben müssen?

Fragen wir doch die Überlebenden, die, die Zeugnis abgelegt haben über diese Zeit.

Fragen wir doch die, die die Wahrheit kennen:

Was macht man mit Menschen, die nur noch andere töten wollen: Kinder insbesondere, weil das das Unmenschlichste ist?

Ich habe keine fertigen Antworten, aber das Einschlagen auf die, die solche Menschen gestoppt haben und jetzt stoppen wollen, finde ich als Deutsche besonders abscheulich.

Palästinensische Selbstmordattentäter und andere Terroristen weltweit teilen dieselbe Gnadenlosigkeit, die die Deutschen unter Hitler hatten. Hat es gereicht zu analysieren, daß die Deutschen durch die finanzielle Katastrophe des Versailler Vertrags aufgehetzt und leicht empfänglich für Propaganda waren? Was hilft es bei der LÖSUNG des Problems, dies zu bedenken? Hätte man den Versailler Vertrag zurücknehmen müssen, damit der Holocaust nicht passiert? Wären alle wieder lieb gewesen, wenn ...? Und kein Jude wäre ermordet worden?

Bush und Sharon sind es nicht, die Hitlermethoden haben, liebe Frau Däubler-Gmelin, die Terroristen sind es. Und weiter noch, sie benutzen Propaganda, um Europa und die USA zu spalten. Lest die emails von Bin Laden, wie sehr er auf den Antiamerikanismus setzt.


Wir müssen die pälestinensiche und arabische Propaganda über Juden lesen, die wir so gerne ignorieren, obwohl es schon lange bekannt ist. Lest doch mal die englischen Übersetzungen, wieviele arabische Regierungen diesen Judenhaß noch immer haben. Propaganda fängt mit der Wortbesetzung an. Eines der ersten Propagandawörter ist das Wort "Kritik". Man wird doch wohl noch Bush und Sharon kritisieren dürfen. Und dann legt man so richtig los über die Stellung der Juden in den USA und die Unterstützung der USA für Israel. Wie müssen wissen, daß diese ganz bewußt die Medien einsetzen, um uns auf ihre schreckliche Seite zu ziehen.

Haben wir aus der Dschenin-Lüge nichts gelernt?

Was hat eine deutsche Frau unter HItler dazugebracht, jüdische Kinder zu töten? Diese Antwort müssen wir finden, um zu begreifen, warum diese Terroristen Kindern in den Rücken schießen, sich in Schulbussen in die Luft sprengen. Das gibt es doch schon lange in Israel.

Das sind meine Gedanken, wenn ich die Leichen dieser Kinder sehe.


For everyone in the Putin discussion, the main Chechen complaint against the Soviet Union was because of Stalins reign. The Chechens were forcibly moved during WWII. The animosity has nothing to do with Putin himself. The individuals at the school are al-Qaeda and want a theocracy built from an area ruled by a secular state. They are Wahabbi, not freedom fighters. Those who want to find an answer, should find that answer, (not freedom fighters). If we stay focused on the task at hand we'll win. If we argue they'll win. Remember this all who are concerned "A house divided will not stand"

hi all. I accidentially found this link. Most of you talking about Chechnya and Russia and even don't knowing about history. What ever we do in Chechnya to avoid splitting of the country is our business. Because it's our land. And if it will continue, we will fight until last chechen/arab terrorist.

And, whoever said that "they need Western values".. what a bullshit. Are you sure we need your stupid western values?! Did you ask some of us about this? It is NOT West. It's not the East. It is RUSSIA.

As for this main post, it's author is just disinformed about situatuion in Chechnya by western news agencies (especially EU's ones).

sergei,
first: you are a human being. Second: You should learn to respect human beings. Third: we are ALL human beings. We are all the same. It is that simple. Learn to respect people and what life is. Learn to respect what democracy is and learn to respect democracy. Learn to respect the freedom of posting here. Learn to respect people with different opinions. Stop your own hatred when you feel it. Help to stop the hatred of others. Get up against hatred. We are all the same people.

On Liberal Support. Thus spoke Virginia,

Quote
I will support President Putin in that regard, but for all my sympathy in the fight against terrorism, that doesn't keep me from saying when I think he's on a dangerous road.
End Quote


I just love it when libs talk about support, it never fails to unmask their good feeling lalaland shallowness.

Could you please be more specific about YOUR SUPPORT TO PRESIDENT PUTIN? Are you gonna grab hands and chant together on Saturday night totally sympathizing against terrorism or what? Give Peace A Chance with chorus, fiddles and tambourines? Holding candles? Coming all to a fancy protest in support? Marching with black clothes? Are you into graffiti? Pins and t-shirts in support? Writing a touching letter to Kofi Annan? Are you going to lecture President Putin on "civil liberties, and oppressing the Chechen people" (sic) to really really help him? What is -exactly- your support to President Putin? Is it okay military action, breaking a few things and killing some awfully oppressed Chechen islamofascists or will you reckon that as eye for eye vindictiveness, unwise, hawkish, insensitive, somehow against free speech and at the end counterproductive? Support? WHAT support?

For those in Russia or elsewhere who keep wondering about the remarks, made by Dutch minister Bot (who is spokesman on behalf of the EU), it is perhaps interesting to know that in Dutch language the adjective "bot" in English means something like "blunt, insensitive", in German:"schroff, grob, stumpf- oder blödsinnig."
We have a Latin proverb in this situation: Nomen est omen.

@Thomas

If you read my first thread in this post you will see the phrase, "in the context of this discussion is, objectively." The word "objectively" is not there by coincidence. I put it there to make it clear that I don't accuse you of deliberate support for terrorists or anything of the sort. For that matter, I've read your comments and posts on this blog, and know that you haven't been shy about fighting for causes we both believe in. That said, I strongly believe that criticism of the enemies of the terrorists so soon after such a vicious attack, and in the context of the news coverage of the story itself, is wrong. It inevitably plays into the hands of the moral relativists and "root causes" crowd. If you don't see it that way, I'm sorry. I hope you will at least think about it. If I was "over the top" yesterday, I apologize for it. I tend to become a little emotional when I see rows of children in body bags.

@sergie-
wondering if you found your way back to this blog..
you say "What ever we do in Chechnya to avoid splitting of the country is our business. Because it's our land" Yeahm thats fine ahole- you keep the fight IN YOUR land, AMONG YOUR PEOPLE, and keep the goat poking cowards OUT OF YOUR COUNTRY and then you cna perhaps get around to fashioning a society for yourself.
you also spewed- "And, whoever said that "they need Western values".. what a bullshit. Are you sure we need your stupid western values?!"
No one is asking you to adopt, eat, or chew western values. The millions who flee your area to study in the west tells enough of a tale to lay waste to your foolish claim and your nonsense. In addition- what it is we seek from those who share your ideology is this- you keep your pathetic and cowardly culture in a cave, and leave it there. I don't care if the cave is in Russia, Chechnya, or frickin macedonia. Yu continue on the path you and your kind are taking and I can assure you with great confidence YOU will not be the last coward brutally handed to your virgin groupies.

Pato, that was uncalled for. It is not defensible on any terms that I understand. The Russians are not responsible for the hold of Islamofacism. They have been trying to wipe it out for decades, at an enormous cost. I have recently been challenged by former citizens of the Great Sow (as they say) for American support of the muhajadeen against the USSR in Afghanistan. It is not an unjust challenge, just one that ignores thae fact that no one has a crystal ball.

I don't see a problem with givng sergei the dignity of love for country and culture that precludes any one else of deciding what is best for sergei.

Aber man muß die persönlichen Schicksale dieser Frauen kennen, um zu verstehen, wie sie, die früher ein vollkommen normales Leben führten, Mütter von Kindern, Ehefrauen, sich zu einem solch verheerenden Schritt entschließen können.

"Dieses von Ausweglosigkeit und purer Verzweiflung gezeichnete Phänomen ist eine unmittelbare Folge der Vorgehensweisen des russischen Militärs, das Ortsansässige auf den bloßen Verdacht hin, den Mudschahedin anzugehören, ohne Ermittlung, ohne gerichtliches Urteil verschleppt, wenn nicht gleich erschießt. Manchmal auch einfach so, ohne jeden Verdacht."

http://www.faz.net/s/Rub117C535CDF414415BB243B181B8B60AE/Doc~EEDDB33F9D5A042458DB2643610ACD164~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html


So steht es in der FAZ. Die ZEIT, FR, SZ bringen ähnliche Kommentare. Aber ist es richtig. Was haben die Rebellen getan, die "Widerstandskämpfer", die die politischen Verhältnisse nicht anerkennen, die keinen demokratischen Prozeß anerkennen, die mit Gewalt ihre Machtgier durchsetzen wollen? Diese Journalisten beginnen ihre Geschichte mit der gewaltvollen Reaktion der russischen Soldaten, klammern aber aus, worauf diese reagieren. So lenken sie das Mitleid auf die armen Witwen, die so verzweifelt sein müssen, daß sie sogar Kinder töten. Dabei haben schon ihre Männer getötet, um ihre politischen Ansichten durchsetzen zu können. Das ist das ganze Bild. Man malt das romantische Bild eines verzweifelten Kämpfers gegen den russischen Goliath, die arme traurige Witwe, dabei war schon der Mann barbarisch und seine trauernde Witwe ist es noch mehr.

Es gibt keinen Grund, unschuldigen Kindern in den Rücken zu schießen, auch wenn unsere Medien daran so gerne glauben.

@pamela
sergie can indeed have a great love of his country at any time of his choosing. No one would dispute that.
However, when his ideologies permit the infiltration of jihadi cowards into this supposed "seperatist movement" you create a problem for those NOT involved in the conflict. ANY ethnic Russian or ethnic Chechnyan DOES NOT need anything from the pathetic and bearded child killers whose religion is like poison to those who drink it or are forced to drink it. Chechnyans want their own homeland, they were given that on two occasions. THEY ARE NOT INVOLVED INA RELIGIOUS FIGHT.
The infiltration of the muslim freaks into this area IS NOT to assist in a seperation as much as it is intented to create an islamic caliphate in the region. THATS a BIG difference from any stand-point. You mention the US support for Afghani mujahadeen back in the 80's when russia was trying to bring a failing communisim to the Afghani territory WHILE communisim itself was dying back in Russia. THAT war was in afghanistan, and NOT in russia or chechnya.
The afghanis should have been happy that the US helped defeat the Russians after a 10 year battle.
When the US returned it took them 21 days to topple these cowardly fools and send them running to the safety of their 7th century caves.
The bosnian and kosovo muslims should have been happy after US men and woman stopped the slaughter of euro muslims as an impotent europe sat in cafes drinking coffee on welfare dollars while smoking US-made Marlboros.
WHy did europe permit the entry of mujahadeen from afghanistant TO sarajevo?
Why does the eu permit the movement of jihadists from arab lands into Kosovo?
Why does the "eu" permit it's educated and welfare soaked asylum seekers to put on bomb belts and head to the middle east to attempt to kill americasn or jews? Is that the "eu" way of trying to reduce it's own welfare roles? If so, it is the "eu" who owes the US a token of something again... like keeping it's pathetic mouth shut untill it has gained just a few of it's own abilities.
Asylum seekers in the "eu" region have dropped 85% over the last year. This is solely due to US actions in afghanistan and Iraq, and has NOT ONE damn thing to do with any efforts of germany or it's grand-standing side-kick france.
Again- if sergie wants an independent homeland in chechnya- great, go for it. Have a damn vote, kick out the booze and heroin smugglers (that goes for russian soldiers involved)
SHOW THE WORLD YOU HAVE CIVILITY, kick out the cowards among you who do NOT belong in your country, and then no one will give a damn about what goes on inside the country.

Pato, if I correctly understand you, your premise is that sergei is Chechnyan? Look, I know of no one except the jihadis themselves that want these people in their homeland. Hell, I've got Saudis living in the house next door and I KNOW something is going on over there. I share your disgust at the EU (their demand that Putin "explain how this tragedy happened" was one of the most repugnant posturings I have ever witnessed and I think Putin should shut all their embassies and kick the pigs out of Russia).

But it's not sergei's fault. It is his countrymen and their children that have been slaughtered with Islamist bayonets. It's not his fault.

hi. men, you've got me wrong. I'm not Chechen. Im Russian. I was talking that chechen land is ours. So they will never get their independency. Resistance is futile. Teracts will not break us apart.

P.S. As for the main post, I've indeed missed sarcasm of the author. My fault.

"we have to look for the root causes for a better understanding of their behavior"

This point is satirically presented here as some kind of delusionary liberal point, but isn't eliminating the root causes of terrorism the whole point behind the Bush administration's long term strategy of bringing democracy to the Middle East?

Freedom fighters? You call child-butchering psychopathic killers freedom fighters? You make me sick. I will puke the memory of your words from my mouth.

I call them psychopathic satan-worshiping child-killin murderers. They'll get whatever's coming to them, and hopefully it's a long slow painful death, before they're cast into hell for eternity.

As for you, you're a pandering appeasing worm who thinks he can make a deal with the devil. Go ahead, I'm sure he'll honor it for you, fool!

How did the allies crush the nazi menace? We utterly destroyed them. There was no other choice.
We have no choice now but to utterly destroy Islamofacism.

Wake up, or you'll be next.

"To gain the peace, prepare for war"

- a smart Roman

Note from David: Not a smart American, I'm afraid. THIS IS SARCASM, BUDDY!! GOT IT?

Alright, I'm an idiot. I didn't read the entire posting. It was kneejerk reaction to what I thought was another pablum puking liberal spin on what can only be called satanic.

What happened in Beslan, Russia, will live in infamy for eternity and I've been a little on edge lately with relatives in Iraq.

But let's call a spade a spade. The blood-drenched cult of islamist facism has to be utterly destroyed and that means we all must fight it! Religion of peace my ass!

careful my friends. nothing is so clear, beware of consensus created by "passion" rather than reason. the CIA/KGB are responsible for the Beslan atrocity. Putin finally has a "blank check" from the Russian people to "re-acquire" the wayward republics and "re-animate" the Soviet Union while Nato and US forces are at an all time low. Bush is helping Putin by pulling US Forces out of Germany. The timing and political mass manipulation of mass emotions is incredible. Fight the fear...my friends...fight the fear! This was NOT the act of Muslims..it was CIA/KGB sponsored terrorism!

zorro

Thank you, it's a bit of consolation to hear a voice of support and common sense now that the terrorists are killing children and a pack of journalists - mostly foreign but also Russian - chase "hot" facts and blame us in planning the murder of our children.

to muslim "zorro":
oh, please, leave alone the stale KGB-myth!
Those terrorists are so crazy that kill everybody like mad dogs. Do you know that one woman hostage was begging to spare her child - 3-year boy - because he was muslim. The terrorist said :"Your faith is weak, believe in Allakh" - and shoot the boy (3 years!!) to the head.

russian woman

The comments to this entry are closed.

Mission

The Debate

Blog powered by Typepad

February 2021

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
  1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28