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Well, I am stationed in Germany, near one of the biggest bases, and I have yet to see a protest outside the base, be harassed by a German citizen, or have my US made car vandalized here.

Sorry folks, but the pols and proms have their little axes to grind here, but the average German is getting along with the average GI just fine.

When Hinesville, Ga , Junction City,KS, and Killen, TX have as much to offer me in my rare time between deployments as Germany does, I will be happy to relocate, right now I am hoping we take our sweet time leaving.

Niko

I agree, one has to compare with the times. But Carnegie did give away 90% of his wealth prior to dying, didnt he say : a man who dies wealthy, dies disgraced...

IHK: Industrie Handelskammer. I know, I have to be a member. As an American, I had to invest 25K EUR to get the charter to start my company here. Then to get my visa, the Amtsgericht forced me to be a member of the IHK! This costs me 1000 EUR a year that offers me no benefit whatsoever...

To be honest with you though, I am not too sure if it would be any easier for a German to do the same in The US. I know a German buddy of mine had to step through some hoops to get his LLC started.

Frankly, I would not be opposed to the easing of immigration to similar EU levels with the US, Canada and the EU. Or with all English countries: NZ, Australia included! We have the free flow of ideas and capital, why not people.

I haven't had time to read through the comments other than very quickly, so youll have to forgive me if Kevin J O'Brien's International Herald Tribune article has already been mentioned here…

A German government source suggested the news of a major pullout had not been welcome, according to Agence France Press. "Berlin continues to signal its interest in an American military presence in Germany and has emphasized that it can offer ideal conditions for bases," the source told AFP on condition of anonymity.
As for Lynne's comment… You know about the robber barons of the 19th century, Lynne. Your average German knows about that. What do you know — what does he (she) know — about the equivalent in Germany?

While Lynne is mocking America concerning the Enron scandal, while numerous Americans are slamming George Bush for the Enron scandal, while European politicians, media outlets, and citizens alike are castigating America for Enron in unison (and other capitalist "crimes")… well, during that time French leaders, German leaders, Russian leaders (among others) were involved in the greatest scam of all time, one that involved supporting (and enriching) the mass-murdering dictator of a Middle Eastern nation. But you wouldn't know about it, because those nations' media (unlike the Americans') are not doing their job, at least not as efficiently as they could be, and should be. Meanwhile, those countries' citizens (unlike Lynne and many others with the independent American spirit) invariably rally around their leaders…

This, Lynne, is what is known in some places as double standards

I went to Iserlohn last October for a workmate's wedding. I was seated amongst some of the most vile hatred-spitting America bashers I have ever witnessed. They were admittedly of a much higher income class than average, but I was shocked by how they viewed me as an uneducated "primal" (one guy actually used that word) yank... Such class, at a wedding reception... Anyway, one of them actually said "How can you support the occupation of any country?"

I agreed with him, of course, and mentioned that I would write my congressman right away and demand that we pull out of 'West' Germany. His wife laughed out loud for a second, but a really nasty hush came over the table after that...

I think the only reason it didn't come to blows is because I was bigger than they were (picture long-haired "biker" in a 3-piece suit).

I apparently hit a nerve.

I think George Bush has hit a nerve also.

By the way, the average Iserlohner in the bars, restaurants, and hotels were among the nicest, sweetest, polite, helpful, and accomodating people I've met. They could apparently tell I was Ein Ami from 500 paces away, too...

That previous comment is by me, Jerry... Not Erik S... Not sure how that happened...

@amihasser
you possess the brains of a wet flea, the stench of an al sadr, and the creativity and originality of one thousand frothing at the mouth, dung-covered camels.
What is it that has made you so damn dumb?
When will you and I meet up in the rhineland so I can tear your bearded head off?

I think that a major reason for the drawdown back to the US is to reduce the "stress" on the force. I enjoyed my time in Germany as a young officer, but I think it gets harder and harder for families to spend so much time overseas. I spoke passable German and Germans I met were pleasant, but even we referred to the US housing communities as ghettos. It is simply harder to be across an ocean from home no matter how well the Army and the Germans work to create a decent living situation. Now, soldiers can be deployed from Germany to Iraq for extended periods. This introduces much higher stress on the family.

I’m glad that we are keeping a significant presence in Germany and hope that this will be an opportunity to have a force there that consists of soldiers and families who are eager to spend time in Germany.

Gore VIDAL in der Weltwoche:


"Gore Vidal ist das herausragende Multitalent unter den Literaten der Vereinigten Staaten. Der Cousin von Al Gore und Stiefbruder von Jackie Kennedy plädiert für keusche Liebe und hofft auf den Bankrott seines Landes.
...

VIDAL: "Die Medien in den USA sind von Bush kontrolliert. CNN ist ein Sprachrohr des Weissen Hauses. Die Washington Post, die New York Times – sie alle unterstützen Bushs Politik im Irak. Ich traue meinen Augen nicht. «Präventivkrieg» ist der faschistischste Begriff, den man seit 1939 gehört hat. Für all jene, die an Demokratie glauben, ist die gegenwärtige Politik der US-Regierung ein Horror."

VIDAL: "Bush wurde nicht vom Volk gewählt, sondern vom Obersten Gerichtshof."

VIDAL: "Wir wussten nicht, dass dieser kleine Mann (Bush, die Red.) die Illusion hat, die Welt zu erobern; dass er zwei Länder attackieren wird, die uns nie etwas angetan haben oder uns je etwas anhaben können. Er geht hin und zerstört Afghanistan und den Irak. Der Kongress stoppt ihn nicht, weil alle von denselben Leuten bezahlt werden, die auch ihn bezahlen, dem Amerika der Konzerne. Es gibt keine Medien, die nein sagen, denn auch sie werden von denselben Leuten finanziert. NBC, einer der grössten Fernsehsender der USA, gehört General Electric – General Electric stellt Nuklearwaffen für das Pentagon her. NBC wird nie etwas Kritisches zum Krieg und zur amerikanischen Aggressionspolitik verlauten lassen."

VIDAL: "Osama Bin Laden hatte eine Strategie, ich habe alle seine Communiqués gelesen. Aber Bush, dieser kleine Terrier, wuff, wuff, wuff, der sich als grosser Kriegsherr gebärdet, was hat er für eine Strategie, wenn nicht die, den internationalen Terrorismus für wahlpropagandistische Zwecke zu missbrauchen? Er wirkt so albern, wenn er im Fernsehen redet (imitiert die Gestik und Stimme Bushs): «Ich bin ein Wartime-Leader, ein Kriegsherr. Wie Lincoln, Ford und, äh, Chevrolet.»"

VIDAL: " Wir hatten viele dumme Präsidenten, aber Bush kann kaum richtig lesen. Er schafft es nur knapp, sich durch eine Rede zu kämpfen. Er kann keine klaren Gedanken fassen, geschweige denn selber formulieren. Zumindest in diesem Sinne ist er repräsentativ: Viele US-Studenten können nicht lesen. Sie haben keine Ahnung von Geschichte, wissen nicht, was jenseits ihrer Landesgrenze passiert."

Letzten November ist Ihr langjähriger Lebenspartner Howard Austen gestorben. Sie wurden oft gefragt, was das Geheimnis Ihrer langen Beziehung war. Sie antworteten: kein Sex.

VIDAL:"Das stimmt, aber niemand glaubt mir. Ich war 53 Jahre lang mit Howard zusammen. Stellen Sie sich vor: 53 Jahre lang Sex mit derselben Person. Ist das nicht makaber? Holen Sie sich Ihren Sex woanders, aber belasten Sie Ihre Beziehung nicht damit!"

«Palimpsest», Ihre Autobiografie*, ist eine Liebeserklärung an Jimmie Trimble, Ihren Lover, der kurz vor Ende des Zweiten Weltkrieges ums Leben kam. Haben Sie diese Vollkommenheit, die Sie beschreiben, je wieder erlebt?
VIDAL: "Für meinen Geschmack ist «Palimpsest» ein zu persönliches, ein zu intimes Werk. Es war nicht meine Absicht, einen Liebesroman zu schreiben. Als ich aber mit dem Schreiben begonnen hatte, konnte ich mich nicht mehr zurückziehen. Ich musste schreiben, was ich wusste, und vor allem, was ich fühlte. Aber zu Ihrer Frage: Nein, ich habe mich nie mehr so glücklich und vollkommen gefühlt wie mit Jimmie. Aber ich hadere nicht."

----------------------------

Da lebt er 53 Jahre mit Howard Austen zusammen und bezeichnet hier öffentlich seine Jugendliebe Jimmy als die einzige große Liebe seines Lebens. Mit ihm hatte er eine Beziehung, als er unter 20 war. - Nicht jeder wird im Alter weise. Ich finde diese persönlichen Details über Vidal ganz interessant, weil er so gerne hier in Deutschland zitiert wird. Was ist das überhaupt für ein Mensch, der hier so hochgejubelt wird, nur weil er Bush verachtet? Ist er selbst der Mensch, dem man Vertrauen entgegenbringen kann, wenn man seine sonstigen Ansichten hört?


Amihasser,

60 years ago, Amihasser's grandfather was also a chemist working at AG Farben developing Zyklon B.

Off-Topic:

Spörl lässt den Bush-Messer wieder bei 50% hochschießen:


Hoffen auf den richtigen Swing

Von Gerhard Spörl, Washington

Gibt Ohio den Ausschlag oder ist es Florida? In den Swingstaaten, in denen Republikaner und Demokraten sich seit jeher Kopf-an-Kopf-Rennen liefern, wird sich zeigen, ob George W. Bush US-Präsident bleibt oder John Kerry ihn ablöst.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,314113,00.html

James: Ich verstehe und schätze Ihre Anmerkungen. Zutreffende Freundschaften willen dauern. Amerika muß einen Terrorkrieg kämpfen, den sie nicht um baten. Ich bete alle Deutschen stehe mit unseren lieben amerikanischen Freunden mit ihm.

Wow - thanks Downer. That's interesting. I wonder why they started reporting actual polls?

With all due respect to Social Engineers, and to our European "friends," the primary raison d'etre of the military is to fight wars. We have a global war going on right now and it (for the first time) does not center on Europe. So what Europeans think about US military policies and actions is peripherally interesting, but not terribly important.

The UN and NATO were created to keep Europe peaceful - to keep the war-mongering European Genie in the bottle, so to speak. But new alliances and new organizations must arise to deal with this current Asia-centric threat. And accordingly, our deployment of troops must shift to accomodate the new threat.

As an American, I am glad that Europe is pacifistic. Do you have any concept of how many BILLIONS of dollars and millions of American lives it has cost to tame the European war-beast. After three world wars in the 20th century, I am content to let the Europeans continue along their current pacifist path. The prospect of a remilitarized Europe is even less appealing than a remilitarized Japan.

So no hard feelings from this American to all you Europeans, but we need our troops elsewhere. Sweet dreams, have a nice life, etcetera, etcetera. We've got work to do, and would appreciate it if you all piped down for a while so we can concentrate on the task at hand.

Regards from Texas.

Another german suffering from major intellectual hallucinations, ignorance, and the pouting pity of a 11 yr old child whose ice-cream has just been snatched.
http://www.zeit.de/2004/34/C-Amerikaner
Is it a prerequisite to have an IQ under 65 to write for the german press? It is articles like this that have destroyed any chance of ANY future US admiration, or liking for germany, and quite frankly these articles are slowly making those in the US want to roll up their sleeves and have a go at a few germans out on an open plain.
Is this intellectual sickness which permeates germany something that will subside soon, or is it, as it appears, a growing cancer of the minds?http://www.zeit.de/2004/34/C-Amerikaner
While in deutschwelle- they lament and rain tears about losing the "US boys"
http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,3367,1432_A_1301658_1_A,00.html
What an insane contradiction, written by damn imbeciles.

I think that a major reason for the drawdown back to the US is to reduce the "stress" on the force

It will have that effect, but is not the main reason.

Look: in 1939-42, Gen of the Army George Marshall saw that warfare had changed and that the Army was still in a WWI mentality. It's organization, weapons and doctrine were obsolete - a fact driven home by the nature of the then-current threat. Marshall mechanized the Army, stressed integrated arms units, pushed a real transformation in military doctrine (i.e. how the Army would fight and what kinds of wars it was preparing for). The result is that this 5 star general who never led troops in combat directly is considered one of the greatest generals ever.

This is the kind of change we're undergoing again now. New technologies, new threats => new organization, new weapons systems, new approaches to the dispersal of troops and equipment and new doctrine.

ALL the rest of it -- the effects on Army families deployed overseas, the impact on local economies, any purported "punishment" for attacks over Iraq -- all this is peripheral. These changes have been in the works since Rumsfeld took office as SECDEF.

So... Germans are all one person with all one opinion, who all look alike and all dress alike and all eat the same food and have the same views toward the American military? I mean, the word "they" is popping up a lot here in these articles. All Germans are blond, right? And all eat sausage and wear Lederhosen? And they're ALL either raving Nazis or hypocrital peaceniks? Just wanted to make sure the same old group-think stereotypes that have been so useful to Americans in the past were still in place. Couldn't be an America without 'em. Nicht?

Donna Barr,

And saying" the same old group-think stereotypes that have been so useful to Americans in the past were still in place. Couldn't be an America without 'em. Nicht?" is not also a stereotype? Try not to engage in the same kind of behavior for which you criticize others.

It seemed like there were several posters here who said that not all Germans were mean to Americans, or seemed to particularly dislike us. Though I have to admit sometime the vitriole that people express in their posts gets me a little down. However, in most cases, I think people are just expressing their anger at what appears to be the majority opinion amongst Germans, and of course our treatment at the hands of the mainstream German media.

I also must point out that my best friend, who is German, would rather walk over hot coals than be in the same room as lederhosen, nevermind wear them. He's also brunet, horror of horrors. Just in case anyone on this board was still laboring under that particular delusion about German people. On the other hand, he can be persuaded to eat sausage on occasion, so I suppose all is not lost.

Anonymous Steve(?),

Don't forget that Lederhosen are in no case an all-German garment. We folks outside Bavaria would not wear them anyway.

Donna Barr,

Suggest you check the opinion polls in Germany. Think you will see the vast majority do not support the US. They surely do not support our President.

As for Lederhosen, am sure they will not be quite as popular now that the tax support for them has been eliminated. HOWEVER - a few thousand Germans marching in the street might get Berlin to restore it. Maybe you should join them.

@Donna

"the same old group-think stereotypes that have been so useful to Americans in the past were still in place. Couldn't be an America without 'em. Nicht?"

If you're into quasi-rascist stereotyping, Donna, you might try looking at the covers of SPIEGEL over the last two years or so. You should find the caricatures of gun-slinging, brain-dead Americans educational. All in the spirit of "objective criticism" right?

Seems like lederhosen have the ability to cause riots when state welfare subsidies for them are threatened-
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1099008/posts
http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/2004/03/germany_no_more.html

BTW, I'm the one that posted about her friend and lederhosen and his preference for hot coals. And yes, I know that not all of Germany is Bavaria, even though giving him a hard time about it is a lot of fun (I never said I was a nice person).

Don't fear, German Citizens. We all have countrymen that dress or behave in ways that embarass us. For instance, I live in a place where people glue gravel to their front yards and spray paint them green to have "lawns". So I feel your pain. Let us stretch our hands across the water and join in the unity of making fun of our neighbors. Brings a tear to your eye, doesn't it?

Yeah, that's what we Germans really want: Lederhosen subsidies from our evil welfare state.

Well,.......gee Schulz you had them. What was it earlier this year or late last year that the Lederhosen subsidies were finally eliminated.

Realize too your welfare state is not evil. It might be many things but it is not evil. If anything it is a form drug enducement for the masses.

While not evil and I am sure most would admit that, it is a failure. The magintude of which you will see in your life time.

@ Donna,

We had a German poster in this blog post a while back that European children were now taller than American children because American chilren are feed a diet of junk food and McDonalds.

I hope the latest medal count in Athens, will speak for itself. Junk food mal-nourished Americans are making mince meat out of European athletes who have drank fresh milk from the socialist teat all their lives.

Evenmore humiliating.....the US woman's swimm team broke a 25 year world record that was set by the steroid pumped DDR woman's team of 1979. (Some of those former world record holders had to surgically become men because their hormones were permanently unbalance.....crimes against humanity.....where is Brussels?)

Na Ja, stero-types...can't live with them....can't live without them.

"imperial gusto"? Ahhhhh. Endlich - ein Imperialismus, der schmeckt!

Just for fun:

Germany: 80 million citizens
USA: 280 million citizens

280/80=3.5

Germany won (until now) 8 gold medals, 9 silver medals, 11 bronze medals.

USA should have won about 28 gold medals, 31-32 silver medals and 38-39 bronze medals, if their athletes are as good as the german athletes.

But USA 'just' won (until now) 20 gold medals, 18 silver medals, 12 bronze medals.

@ olympic medal dude-
Hey- whats your point? Your logic is foolish.
Many in the US who qualify for the olympics, simply do not pursue their field as they have a busniess to attend to.
Why don't you organize a set of games JUST between germany and the US, and then see who comes out on top.

Medal Count as of Day Ending 21 August

Weak, Appraisers, Selfish 188

Coalition of the Willing 242

Well if we use population .......think of the weak - China, Russia, India, Germany,etc......compared to the US,UK, Poland,etc.

It would seem once again the Coalition of the Willing accomplishes more with less once again.

@ Jerry

Hey Jerry, I can agree with you about the seething anti-Americanism found within the region of Iserlohn. I live within the Ruhrgebiet, and encounter this level of anti-Americanism all the time. I am getting very tired of trying to correct misinformation, but I must continue to carry the torch of fact based information. I love the statement you made about pulling out of occupied Germany. I have used this as well and it shocks them, for they haven't realized that they have been occupied since 1945.

On the other hand there are those who are well informed factually and are pro-American. The hatred of G. W. Bush overshadows everything, while the love of Micheal Moore and his idiocy is considered the basis of " true American information". He has been crowned as the "American intellectual". What a joke! Sorry, got carried away again.

I am never taken for an Ami, as I blend in well in to my environment (some survival skills never die). Recently, I met some people and they had no idea that I was an American until they were told that I am from the U.S. They were very surprised indeed.

Keep on shocking them Jerry!


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