Hot Summer Comments from our Readers

We at Medienkritik continue to be impressed by the discussion taking place daily on our web-site. Here are just a few examples of the outstanding comments we have received recently:

From: WhatDoIKnow on Bush's Miraculous Recovery: Sudden 17% Jump in Re-Election Chances Unprecedented:

It must be so much fun to be a Spiegel editor and top "journalist". You have your own magazine to satisfy your deepest desires and wishes. Since nobody is above you, except maybe God, who doesn't count, there is no limit to your "creative" journalism. Journalism at Spiegel has become high modern art. It has its roots in reality but resemblances reality only remotely. In fact, it usually has little to do with reality. Just like modern art, journalism at Spiegel, when dealing with "important" issues, is a creative(some would say deformed) way of interpreting reality. The tiny difference between Spiegel's journalism and modern art is that people expect modern art to confuse their senses(visual, hearing etc). From Spiegel, people expect the opposite, a certain order instead of confusion. One would think that it should be difficult for Spiegel to convince their customers that the confusion and misinformation it sells is real. In a normal world you can't convince large groups of people that your deformed reality is the only reality. In our abnormal, post 911 world everything is possible. The sky is the limit. All you need is a group willing to believe and unwilling to question. That group is amply represented in Germany.

From: SleepyinSeattle on The Role of France and Germany in Iraq

Unfortunately the values of those most vocal in Germany the last few years are nothing more than a disingenuous cause for "peace". This "peace" they protested for, the "peace" they whined for, the "peace" they marched in the streets for was the "peace" that continued to fill countless mass graves, the "peace" that allowed government backed thugs to take swords and chop people's fingers off, throw them off buildings, put explosives in their pockets and watch them explode, put people in wood chippers feet first, surgically remove hands for using dollars, dumping people alive in acid and watching them essentially melt and on and on and on.

Disingenuous, because where were these "peace" people during the wars in
Somalia, Rwanda, Bosnia, Chechnya, Kosovo, Congo, Sierra Leone, Sudan, etc.?
Either those were examples of exactly the type of "peace" they like and were
perfectly content with, or the recent obsession with peace has nothing to do
with peace at all, and had all to do with some odd sort of anti-Americanism
(which I also find disingenuous due to the soaking up of American pop-culture,
if you hate Americans, don't try to be like them). They made it a fashionable
cause for which the media helped enormously, like "hey lets march in the streets
and make signs with cool provocative slogans. We'll be against the big
ultra-publicized overexposed USA. It'll be OUR "cause", like the older
generations causes against Vietnam or the nukes in Europe." Being that if their
"cause" was followed, we could expect Saddam to continue his brutal reign and
would eventually be taken over by one his sadist sons. You know, "peace
" in the middle east would have been preserved.

Don't ask them, the Germans, to help in Iraq. Iraq has neither the peace nor
freedom apparently that the most vocal contingent from Germany approves of.
That's why you continue to see whining and seething out of Germany. Until you
get a qualified psychopathic murderous totalitarian regime back in place, Iraq
will continue to not be the acceptable type of "peace" or "freedom". Once Saddam
Jr. is in place, you won't hear about a peep about Iraq from Germany. Just like
all those many years prior to any threat to the "peace" in Iraq by the US.

From: Erik on Bush Lied, Blair Lied ... NOT

I've had very similar disheartening experiences. Many Germans (and other Europeans) are simply unwilling to consider the possibility that the view they're getting from their media is distorted or incomplete, even those who speak English well and, theoretically, have access to other media sources. On several occasions I've tried to get Germans to compare original sources (e.g. interviews, government reports, etc) to the media summaries of those reports so they could see how distorted the summaries are. With precisely one exception, they _all_ simply refused to look at the source material. The notion that their media is serving them poorly is too horrible to contemplate, and they just don't want to know. Of course, the fact that they refused to even look is a pretty good indication that, deep in their heart-of-hearts, they know the truth.

From: James on SPIEGEL ONLINE: A Curious Change in Attitude

You (like the German government) employ a double-standard when trying to address the issue of no WMD found so far in Iraq:

1) You choose only to quote American sources in a manner similar to Spiegel
Magazine. All the time knowing that: the German government, the BND, Hans Blix,
The CIA (read Kenneth Pollack:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0375509283/qid=1089369638/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-1368811-0445510),
The UK, the French, THE RUSSIANS, little red riding hood, all considered Iraq to
have chemical weapons and further weapons in violation of UN mandates.

2) As I have told you in previous responses, Kamal Hussien defected and revealed
substantial information concerning their weapons programs, particularly at a
time when the French, German, Russian and Chinese governments were losing
interest in the subject. So Iraq had a history of lying, why should we have
believed him? A despot, a criminal, a sadist, a liar, a thief.

3) I have asked you, in the past, if you were interested in knowing what
happened to the missing Sarin/VX that Hans Blix (The UN) considered Iraq to be
in possession of? No response, so far. Let me be direct with you, if a gas
attack occurs in the US over the next several months, I will hold YOU and
Germany in contempt. In my mind, a re-definition of the German/American
relationship will be needed.

So, we all agreed on the intelligence data coming out of Iraq. Right? But,
Germany, France didn't take action ( but 16/26 NATO members have), right? So,
is America guilty for taking action?

Recall that the Intelligence of the murder of Bosnian Muslims was universally
accepted by the west: 300,000 dead. But what did Germany do? Nothing.

So, I have really no expectations for Germany to ever take any action on any
issue regardless of the level of intelligence. Ever. Chechnya, with over
80,000 dead doesn't even warrant your Chancellor's discussion? Shameful.

From: Simon Wunder on Israel: Future as Pariah

Israel has survived Europe's hostility for a long time. As far as I know, people from Israel are very much aware of the fact that they cannot count on Europe's support against the onslaught of radical islam. What bothers me as a German is the increasingly arrogant foreign policy of my country's government towards democratic countries like Israel and the USA. It's not only the media are hostile towards Israel. Claudia Roth, the German government's Commissioner for Human Rights, publicly celebrated the ICJ's statement. She also opposed regime change in Iraq, of course. You don't see her protesting the actions of the governments of Sudan, Zimbabwe or Cuba. Actually, her Green Party supported Robert Mugabe and Fidel Castro most of the time. One rarely hears people like Roth criticizing third-world dictators. When they do, they are careful not to offend them. George W. Bush is called "arrogant", a "fundamentalist", and a "cowboy". Anyone calling Arafat names that would be accused of racism. When Robert Mugabe starves his people, it's because of "unjust globalization" or "the effects of colonialism". When Palestinian terrorists murder Israeli civilians, the German governments condemns "the cycle of violence" and reminds Israel to observe international law. The governing party's (SPD) think tank recently held a "dialogue-seminar" in Beirut, together with the Hiszbullah. They would never so that together with the Republicans in the USA or with the Likud in Israel. The more democracies are under attack, the more they are criticized by the German government for defending themselves. The more radical Muslims (or any other extremists) are attacking democracies, the more they are appeased by the German government. The DW's article quoted above reflects the mood prevalent in today's Germany very well.

From: Pat on General Discussion Thread

Letter From A Concerned Senior Citizen To Whom It May Concern, I am a senior citizen. During the Clinton Administration I had an extremely good and well paying job. I took numerous vacations and had several vacations homes. Since President Bush took office, I have watched my entire life change for the worse: I lost my job. I lost my two sons in that terrible Iraqi War. I lost my home. I lost my health insurance. As a matter of fact, I lost virtually everything and became homeless. Adding insult to injury, when the authorities found me living like an animal, instead of helping me, they arrested me. I will do anything to insure President Bush's defeat in the next election. I will do anything that Senator Kerry wants to insure that a Democrat is back in the White House come next year. Bush has to go. I just thought you and your listeners would like to know how one senior citizen views the Bush Administration. Thank you for taking the time to read my letter. Sincerely, Saddam Hussein >>>>>>>> guess some smiles just froze or died reading the signature ;-)

From: Eric in USA on he Role of France and Germany in Iraq

Yes Oliver, it is quite true that there are many people in the US who disagree with President Bush. You can say that there is a very intense debate here regarding our role in the world, and what is going on in Iraq. Contrast that to the state of affairs in Germany. Just try to say something positive about Americans. What will be the reaction from your German friends?

By the way, I mis-spoke on my last post. I realized that my first trip to
Germany was in 1985. Almost 20 years ago. Hard to believe how time flies. But
this exchange has gotten me thinking about things. I was 19 years old at the
time: I bought a Eurail pass and along with a friend went to discover all that
Europe had to offer. We had a great time, and met many wonderful people. Just
before visiting Germany, I went to Russia (Leningrad and Moscow) to see what life
was life there. It was surprisingly easy to do so: I signed up with a travel
agency in San Francisco who sent my paperwork off to Intourist and the Russian
Embassy and obtained the necessary visa.

The trip was remarkable for a couple reasons: the fear among Russian people of
their government and the deteriorating state of the country. But what struck me
equally was my return to the west. I went first to Germany. It seemed that
whenever someone heard I had been to Russia, their question was: Aren't you
afraid your government will find out and you'll be in (some unknown) danger?
After all: McCarthy, Reagan, etc. etc. There were lots of references to
Orwell's "1984", Big Brother, etc. Funny thing, because based on the experience
I had just had, they were perfectly describing Russia, not the US. It mattered
not. This was not a debate, but a lecture. Contrast that to the reactions I
got in the US. Universally, people here had one qustion: "What's it really
like there?".

This was 1985 Oliver. Don't fool yourself into thinking that the current state
of relations between our people is the result of George Bush, or 9/11, or Iraq.
There are deep roots.

It makes me think of today's "debate". Listen to Europeans characterize Bush as
an evil dictator, and Americans as religious fundamentalists, as our country as
a racist, ignorant population that exports mass murder. And really, they'll be
describing our common enemy: Muslim terrorism, Islamicism, religious fascism,
whatever you want to call it.

But it matters not. I am not trying to lump all Germans together. I'm sure
that there are some who link differently. I am just saying that unfortunately, I
haven't met them. Maybe they are just being quiet, as I have learned to be in
Germany. There is no room for discussion. Banging my head against a brick wall
just gives me a headache.

Anyway, like I said, it matters not. The German-American alliance, in my mind,
and in the minds of a growing segment of Americans, is dead. Look at the silly
talk at NATO this week: Bush pretends NATO is meaningful, and the Europeans
pretend to contribute. It reminds me of a joke in Eastern Germany during
communism: "We pretend to work, and the government pretends to pay us".
Well, it was an "agreement" that finally just disappeared, and the wall fell
through sheer apathy. NATO is also a relic of the Cold War, and will soon slide
off into nothingness. This time there will be no wall to tear down, and I
wonder if at the end anyone will even notice or care. Germany will at last be
liberated from the evil Americans who have treated them so badly these last 50
years. I try to take this in stride, but if you consider the friendship, generosity and support that Americans have shown Germans all these years, it is hard not to be more than a little discouraged by the level of hatred and accusation that flows out of Germany today.

We hope the discussion continues to grow with the approach of the conventions and the election!

Comments

[mishu]

I just moved here and this is what I look forward to?

http://www.toytownmunich.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5308

It's a 12 month commitment. I already knocked down one month. 11 to go...

[tyranno]

Following up on "Eric in USA on the Role of France and Germany in Iraq."
I agree and have found the same narrow perspective from very nearly all of the Germans that I speak with.
I am continually reminded by my objective German friends of the "fact" of American
"simplicity" and their "black and white" view of the world, contrasted with the more "complex" and "sophisticated" European perspective on the same world events.
And yet my observations just don't bear it out. It is the rare German I meet who doesn't consider President Bush "stupid," that he "stole the election," that he is waging a "war for oil," he is a "cowboy," a "unilateralist," etc, etc, etc... The parroting of the TIME/NEWSWEEK/
DER SPEIGEL/STERN chosen topic of the week is not exactly a "nuanced" or "thoughtful" personal opinion.
In opinion poles these numbers are born out by 70- 80% of the German (all european?)people.
Focusing on just on those topics the numbers in the U.S.A. are much closer to a 55%~45%. So I think we can agree that someone is riding on the "groupthink" bandwagon, I am just not sure it is the Americans.
On so many topics I am astonished at how uninformed most Germans are, or how willing they are to take their information from the most extreme points of view (always negative) to be found in America.
Michael Moore is a prophet. fromthewilderness and moveon.org are gospel. Every criticism or American mistake is accepted at face value, every bit of postitive news is suspect!
I have been told (with a serious straight face) that it is unfortunate that people in America are "doomed to the socio-economic class they are born into." (From the nation that starts testing it's citizens as toddlers to predetermine the direction and level of their schooling.)
I have been told that the "entire news media" in America is controlled by "rightwing zealots" who have brainwashed the American masses into supporting "Bush's War!" (Something that would no doubt be amusing to the vast majority of Americans who consider their mainstream medias somewhat left leaning. But we must have been "brainwashed" because otherwise we too would be anti-war, like all correct-thinking Germans.)
I have been told that the government is controlled by, Jews, Christian fundamentalists, Israel, Neocons, etc, etc . . . that the CIA crashed the planes into the WTC, that the PNAC website is the blueprint for the U.S.A. taking over the world, racism is still a terrible problem, nobody has healthcare, the rich are eating the poor, lions and tigers and bears blah blah blah blahblahblahblah . . . .

The German media is not very objective and doesn't appear to try to be. Though mentioning its bias gets you an eye rolling dismissal. I have a Polizei friend who says, Germans don't like to talk about their problems or talk about bad news! My observation is that goes for the government and newsmedias too. Whether you like or dislike having a FOX or Rush Limbaugh in America, there are no equivalents in the German media.
The ubiquitousness of groupthink here is rather frightening to observe.
After living in Germany for five years my rose colored glasses came off and my observation is that there is a strange sort of emotional transference going on. An emotional need to believe in certain things regardless of the facts and that the medias feed it. (not unlike who in the U.S.A.? ? ?)

I am not making a value judgement here, only an observation based on my own five years of living here and listening, talking and reading.
The point I am making is about this strange transference that is happening, where everything German (European) is good and everything American is bad.
The rewriting of history with Chirac at the Normandy Observance not mentioning the American contribution. A growing conversation I hear more and more often about how the "Soviets really won the war" because they lost more men. The "Bush's War for oil" canard that ignores Europes, not America's, dependence on middle eastern oil, that ignores Russia's $9B and France's $8B oil contracts with the criminal hussein regime.
The ignoring of how many Europeans go to the U.S.A. for their University degree vice how many Americans come to Europe.
The near total, willful ignoring of Europes historic complicity in every single problem the U.S.A. is dealing with or not dealing with in the world today.

So, "simple" you say? Um, Perhaps. "Black and White?" after leafing through the EU constitution, God I hope so!!!!
But stupid? . . . I would say believe that at your peril. (as I fear Chirac and France might start finding out.)

Yes, it is good to be alive in interesting times and there is something strange indeed brewing on the continent that I don't quite have my arms around, and really don't believe I ever will ~ but as a fifth generation American (1859)from Coburg Deutschland, I love Europe and continue working on it.

Tyranno

[Stacy]

Excellent comment Tyranno. Thank you for the insight.

[Yours Digitally]

"The ignoring of how many Europeans go to the U.S.A. for their University degree vice how many Americans come to Europe."

There's no European flag on the Moon, either.

But then it must have been another forgery by the CIA (just as the "attack" on the WTC). Notice the planar shape of the flag? But how, there's no wind on the Moon!!?! QED.

[mishu]

Seriously though, how do I find people in the Munich area that are not brainwashed by this groupthink? I mean it's going to be a horribly lonely year for me otherwise.

[jo]

mishu,
"Seriously though, how do I find people in the Munich area that are not brainwashed by this groupthink?"

Go join the CSU.

[Gabi]

mishu,
when you don't talk about politics, people here are very nice. Believe me. We have wonderful friends. But when we talk about the USA and Israel, they just repeat the media BS. Ignore it, they don't know any facts. Discussions are useless. The hatred towards Bush is too deep. Facts don't matter.

[Tyranno]

Following up on Eric's "Bush lied ~ Blair Lied ~ Not!!!"
Here is a sampling by SLATE magazine of European reaction to Lance Armstrong's win in this year's Tour de France. It was not politics it was sport, and yet the EuroJournals seem to be unable to distinguish any difference.
No collegial competitive sportsmanship, no joy de vivre over the simple beauty of sport, no congratulation on an amazing personal accomplishment . . .
Just the usual petty sniping, back-biting, and small mindedness that is becoming all to common in Western (old)Europe these days.

Tour De Lance
The international press snipes at America's superhero.
By Susan Daniels

After Lance Armstrong's sixth Tour de France win on Sunday, he got a call from the president of the United States, who told him, "You're awesome." And while the European press largely agreed with that characterization, among the plaudits were plenty of sour grapes.

An editorial in Madrid's El Pais rehashed unsubstantiated rumors of drug use by Armstrong, remarking, "The triumph of Terminatour comes ... as questions are asked in various quarters if he won these six Tours cleanly or with the help of stimulants," and characterizing him as "arrogant, cold, machine-like."
http://www.elpais.es/articuloCompleto.html?d_date=20040726&xref=20040726elpepiopi_3&type=Tes&anchor=elpporopi

And in Switzerland, La Tribune de Geneve scorned Armstrong as haughty and described the U.S Postal Service team's effort as "a typically American business that scorns humanity." It went on to chide the cancer survivor: "Mankind is not fond of those who gorge themselves on success without suffering and without showing compassion for their fellows." (Translations from Spanish and French courtesy of BBC Monitoring.)
http://www.tdg.ch/

Liverpool's Daily Post reported that a poll conducted by a French newspaper "placed Armstrong behind only Formula One world champion Michael Schumacher and footballer Nicolas Anelka in a list of the most disliked sportsmen in France" and drily commented, "The reasons are unclear, but in the wake of the US-led war in Iraq, his nationality may be a factor."
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0200sport/0800othersports/tm_objectid=14462309&method=full&siteid=50061&headline=victorious-armstrong-shrugs-off-unpopular-tag-name_page.html

"Maybe it's not national but personal," speculated Alastair Campbell in the London Times. "[A]nti-Armstrongism, anti the fact that he keeps winning their game. They respect him. They admire the way he came back from cancer. They see in him a strong character who has devoted his life to their Tour. But Chirac's France wants French winners and, if it can't have them, other Europeans. But Americans? Non, merci."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/section/0,,1,00.html

Susan Daniels is a Slate copy editor.

[kid charlemagne]

The Berlin Morgenpost featured an editorial criticizing Armstrong the day after he won. It placed the blame for the antipathy of the French toward him squarely on Armstrong himself. Exactly what Armstrong did to deserve such scorn wasn't explained. (Of course, the answer is clear: winning too much and being American.)

This culture of mediocrity and resentment is sad and depressing.

[Tyranno]

The Berlin Morgenpost featured an editorial criticizing Armstrong the day after he won. It placed the blame for the antipathy of the French toward him squarely on Armstrong himself. Exactly what Armstrong did to deserve such scorn wasn't explained. (Of course, the answer is clear: winning too much and being American.)

This culture of mediocrity and resentment is sad and depressing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kid charlemagne,
The analogy that comes to mind is what in the U.S.A. is called "ghetto thinking!" That amazing complex of nihilistic victimization/inferiority that masquerades and manifests itself as a smug, strutting, self-righteous (though still nihilistic) superiority.
The blaming of everything/everybody else for ones situation in life and the unverbalized though tacit admission of a belief in ones own inability to do anything about it. It is a wonderfully (convenient) self serving fantasy that ignores ones own faults, absolves one of blame and transposes responsibility onto others.
The man is bringing drugs into our town ... The man is keeping me down ... The Americans are 'imposing' their culture on us ... the Americans are the 'real' threat to peace in the world ... blahblahblahblah . . .

I am incline to believe that, for the most part, the more proactive, aggressive people, the thinkers, the entrepeneurs, the people who said "I can do better than this!" who chafe under the benevolently oppressive nanny state, have left or are leaving Europe. When I lived in Tampa Florida there were dozens of German transplants there, all of whom were successful and in business for themselves. Life, like water, follows the path of least resistance.

I sometime wonder if what we are watching taking place in Europe is perhaps what remains as a civilization/society atrophies and dies. It is so much easier to criticize capitalism than it is to start a business, hire people, make a payroll. It is so much easier to criticize the U.S.A. than to admit ones inabilty (insignificance) to respond to the multitude of problems, crisis and threats in the world today.
I am also old enough to admit that I remember twenty five years ago when the whole world was gleefully clucking about the end of the U.S.A. as a dominant economic force in the world.
I have no doubt that Europe possesses the ability, the knowledge and skills to successfully recreate itself and can only hope that Europe will experiences the same success over the next 25 years that the U.S.A. has the last 25 years.
Though I must say that I am not hopeful as I listen to their stilted and narrow political conversation, experience the ghetto-ization of their world perspective, and watch their preferred economic solution ~ that being an additional layer of stifling bureaucracy called the EU ~ added to the mind numbing, demotivating, efficiency crushing bureaucracy they already labor under.
Oh well, there a hundred ways to succeed in this world with the U.S.A. being only one model. Nevertheless, I offer an invitation for all of you highly motivated, proactive, open minded, entrepeneurial Europeans who have travelled the socialist road long enough ... Come on down! ! !Turn left at Greenland and hey . . . we'll leave a light on!

Tyranno

[Kurt]

The real reason that Europe is so stagnant is that the "conservative" parties are an absolute joke throughout almost the entire continent. About the only thing that differentiates the "conservatives" from the "social democrats" is that the "right-wing" parties tend to be more skeptical of the EU.

That is no way to build a party with just one issue of difference. And it's also the way to ruining your own country. Now that I am here in America, I see that things are so much more politically diverse and that you can have real conversations about the role of government, business, the church, the welfare state, etc. Any European who seriously thinks that Americans are unsophisticated needs to look in the mirror at himself. At least they have the brains to not believe everything they read or see on TV or hear from their politicians.