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at vdhs question lock from may 5, 2004 I read the following:

Q: "It looks like Europeans hate Israel more than they love themselves, and encourage terrorists everywhere, including in Europe, by supporting the Palestinian 'struggle'. Is there any hope that they would wake up to that fact?

Hanson: No. Add as well oil, fear of terrorists, demographic concerns, the old anti-Semitism, hatred of an American ally, and guilt over colonialism and you have a pretty strong anti-Israel foundation. The key is not their hatred, but Israeli defiance and self-confidence; if Israelis can accept that hatred from a continent that gave them the holocaust, then all will be fine. But if they wish acceptance and love from Europe, they will be sorely disappointed and find themselves at great risk."

I think thats just it (and for america its maybe similar).

and I m absolutly unwilling to listen to people like Eckart Spoo anymore.

I m tired of winning the hearts and minds of people that seem to have a deep interest in an outsourced endloesung. I m sick of my country and I m sick of europe.

only as long as israel will have tanks and a well trained army, it will be save from all the "peaceful" (ie back-stabbing) efforts to "solve" the conflict.

it might still be noble to speak up for israel though nobody wants to listen, but maybe more beneficial to send a pizza to the idf and be aware of europe as an enemy.

Good one.
Case closed for me.

No argument with these analyses! I remember Noam Chomsky as an idiot in 1965, and he hasn't improved with age!

I recall seeing him on a talk show on TV back in the '70s, and the host challenged some of his ideas. It seems that the host realized that much of Chomsky's work was nothing but stringing together bits and pieces of thoughts from other people-- usually out of context-- and then sourcing them to give his works the appearance of being "well researched". Then when challenged on a statement in a piece, he would reply, "But I didn't say that, so-and-so did! I just quoted him!" This host did not put up with that line of attack and outed him as a fraud. I believe I recall that this was one of the times when he tried to defend his support of Pol Pot. That was when Chomsky finally vanished for such a long time before finally resurfacing after 9/11. A lot of clear-thinking people helped hurry him along to oblivion back then, but I had the pleasure of seeing him squirm on TV :).

He hasn't gotten any smarter with age! One might hope for another interviewer with a motive to take him down! :D

Nobody will take him down today. He is worshipped ! If an interviewer would be too hard on him, he would probably loose his job.

We live in a time when ideology rules over truth and facts (history does repeat itself). The Left, the "elites" will use ANYONE (liars, cheaters, clowns) who will server their purpose (whatever that purpose might be, usually self-hate). Would anyone be surprised if Moore won the Cannes festival with his "documentary" ?

It is stunning that "intelectuals" don't have the slightest idea how ridiculous they are when they take out of the closet a looser and try to recycle him. If I were an "intelectual", I would at least try to appear somewhat more "balanced", open minded. Nowadays the "elites" are on the offensive, they don't feel any need for subtlety anymore. One problem though: they have the help of Big Media and still, can't influence US public opinion enough (Europe was, as always, easy prey). Their mental circuites just can't handle and understand this. It drives them crazy.

It is more disgusting to watch the civilized hysteria of the "elites" than street fights of soccer hooligans.

Jochen Hippler just said in a German radio show that there is a fight of the Western world for human rights and democracy against the muslime world and we (Germany) have to unite with the moderate muslime people in the world AGAINST the Western countries which don't follow the human rights and international law (like Israel and USA)!!!

What fight in the Western world. It is a fight against terror. It is not against the muslime world. And why should we fight against the USA and Israel? That is sick!

Such people like Jochen Hippler have too much influence in the German media.


Maybe my perception is incorrect, but Chomsky does not appear to have much support in America on the left for his political ideas. I rarely see him mentioned without some sort of qualification. This appears to be more a symptom of "scraping the bottom of the barrel" in Europe to add credibility to the tenets of European anti-Americanism. With Sontag I suspect a certain naivete on her part (she actually thinks they like her for her books). For Moore, it's expanding to a new market. For Chomsky it is either evil or insane. I know he'd smirk at the use of these terms, but such a systematic disregard for reality can only be intentional or psychotic.

i live in oldenburg. its a shame...how and why germans can be so stupid i cannot grasp.

hat jemand gestern spiegel TV gesehen? da hatten die aufnahmen aus falludshcah oder najaf..natürlich derart hetzerisch aufgezogen dass ich mehrmals sauer aufstossen musste.
und heute wieder auf der spiegel online seite: das attentat von grozny ist nur an dritter stelle, viel wichtiger ist jedoch eine anti-amerikanische hass-tirade.

Alright, I have another issue within the German academic ivory-towers, for which an uneducated fool like me seeks clarity on, like earlier on "Anti-German communists being pro-Bush".

Davids mentioned Gudrun Eussner appears to be a dedicated and good writer on exposing Anti-Semitism and Fascism, but then she - and ch.speicher's mentioned Eckart Spoo as well - both apparently signed a complaint to the prosecution against the Afghanistan-intervention, citing as reason that "revenge" for 9/11 is not legitimate according to international law and the (apparently illegal in their view) toppling of the Government there and also possible Oil-interests in Afghanistan as reasons.

How does this go together? Why this strong criticism against liberating Afghanistan from the Taliban? Or is the criticism perhaps only against Germany's participation (the anti-German angle again)? Someone care to elaborate for me, like some helped me with anti-German communists?

William Shakespeare - Karl Marx - Die Bibel - Noam Chomsky

Gudrun Eussner

Noam Chomsky erhält den Carl-von-Ossietzky-Preis 2004

http://www.juedische.at/TCgi/TCgi.cgi?target=home&Param_Kat=3&Param_RB=14&Param_Red=2249


Langer Artikel mit vielen vielen Informationen! Sehr erhellend.

@Gabi
Gudrun Eussner
Noam Chomsky erhält den Carl-von-Ossietzky-Preis 2004
http://www.juedische.at/TCgi/TCgi.cgi?target=home&Param_Kat=3&Param_RB=14&Param_Red=2249

A bit like Davids above link? :-) (happens to me, too, at times)

Interestingly, the Jüdische.at version appeared apparently one day later and has at first glance one sentence less than the longer Davids linked version. At least this sentence was missing from the jüdische.at version (second last paragraph):

Joachim Guillard vom Antiimperialistischen Komitee (AIK) und Wolfgang Haug könnten ihm dabei helfen, oder ihn mindestens wieder mit einem "ermutigenden Kommentar" unterstützen. (17)

Just as a curious sidenote.

sehe gerade, dass noam auch zu uns in die Uni kommen wird. muss ich wohl schonmal die tomaten und eier besorgen. oder ihn mit fragen bei der podiumsdiskussion konfrontieren.
aber, wie es aussieht, kann er alle fragen durch sein redner-talent abschmettern.

1. @ NEO: this was my opinion at that time. May I develop by having got more information, or should I stick to my old opinion?

2. @ Gaby: the version for www.juedische.at has been sent several days early. The connection to Joachim Guilliard I have found later, so I have added it to the article on my site.

Gudrun:
i am sorry, i dont know what you mean.

@Gudrun

It was me, Klink, both times - the authors are credited on the bottom of each posting in here.

And thanks for your explanations (how dates on articles can leave a false impression!). I had at first wondered whether that signature could also be one of the new oddities in Germany, like some German communists waving US-flags nowadays apparently. But change of opinion is fair enough (though your earlier convictions must have been quite strong that you took the effort to sign this complaint against Afghanistan and to have agreed to have your name published in a newspaper)

btw: I laughed about your putdown of "Reini" in the Schaf-story. That was quite funny!

Sorry, NEO, I have mistaken the posting. It should have been adressed to Klink.

Posted by: Klink | Mai 10, 2004 02:09 nachm.


I think the answer was directed to Klinks critical question about Gudrun Eussner signing a
heartbreakingly naive petition.

Well...

@Stephan
I think the answer was directed to Klinks critical question about Gudrun Eussner signing a
heartbreakingly naive petition.

It wasn't a petition - it was a criminal complaint ("Strafanzeige") against going into Afghanistan, directed specifically against the members of the Federal Government, members of Federal parliament and leading employees at the Chancellor's office and the Federal Defense Ministry, filed at the Federal Prosecution's Office ("Generalstaatsanwaltschaft").

I wonder if everybody got later a letter back from the Prosecution on the outcome of their complaint?

I have to assume a complaint was also filed for the Balkans ??

As far as I remember, somebody asked about the follow-up and he didn't get the slightest answer.

This behaviour of our government was self-explanatory and very interesting in evaluating the peacenik-approach with regard to the iraq war.

At that time I signed because it was a criminal complaint and not a "naive petition". I was against this war.

I'm sure Carl von Ossietzky would have been proud, especially in view of Chomsky's diehard defense of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge as they were committing genocide in Cambodia. When I was in Germany about a year and a half ago I picked up a copy of the Deutsche National Zeitung, and whose face do you think I beheld smiling beneficently at me from the front page? Right! Noam Chomsky! Seems like there's really not much difference between the right and the left in Germany today. The essence of their ideologies, and the only part that either side really cares about, is anti-Americanism.

Ach, seid nicht so resignativ. Hier gibt es etwas Erfreuliches, das mit Carl-von-Ossietzky zu tun hat:

http://www.wiesbadener-tagblatt.de/region/objekt.php3?artikel_id=1464911

Denen hätte der Preis in Oldenburg gebührt.

@Gudrun
As far as I remember, somebody asked about the follow-up and he didn't get the slightest answer.

Does anyone know if there would be a legal obligation to answer? I know that some people during Kosovo received answers for their criminal complaints.

While I personally think such complaints are more a source for amusement for a realist like Klink, IMO the German legal system sometimes does not appear to respond on such issues in the necessary seriousness, at least compared to countries like the US.

At that time I signed because it was a criminal complaint and not a "naive petition". I was against this war.

Let's compromise perhaps on a "heartbreakingly naive criminal complaint", considering it also mentioned things like "securing Oil-transactions" in Afghanistan as reason to be against this war?

With "heartbreakingly naive" I was referring to the content of the criminal complaint (oil,neglection of poor Mullah Omar etc. Klink mentioned it already.).

petition or criminal complaint whatever, i dont have enough trust or belief in state authority anyway (means i think Germany could use a slight ammount of LESS stateauthority and bureaucracy) to consult them with my complaints.

But I enjoyed the article on Chomsky anyway.

What was meant by oil transactions?

I realize Germany has no oil fields of its own but do they consider the small amount of oil in Afghanistan to be a real reason for going to war.

85 - Robert Faurisson, Mémoire en défense, introduction de Noam Chomsky, la Vieille Taupe, 1980

Robert Faurisson: Erinnerung in Verteidigung. Einleitung von Noam Chomsky, "Der alte Maulwurf" 1980.
Der ist ein linksradikaler Negationistenverlag. Das Buch scheint es noch zu geben.

http://www.barruel.com/biblio.html

Auch bei Werner Cohn gibt es genug über Noam Chomsky und seine Nazi-Kontakte:

Partners in Hate. Noam Chomsky and the Holocaust Deniers, by Werner Cohn,
Avukah Press Cambridge 1985/1995

http://www.wernercohn.com/Chomsky.html#anchor13840

Affable? Chomsky? Really?

Afghanistan pumps about 500 barrels a day. I think that's less than New York State, but more than New Jersey.

Niko,

In fairness to that anti-humanistic ratbag, Chomsky, his comments got horribly spammed by nudniks from Little Green Footballs who posted -pron- sites and blocks of irrelevant texts. It's hard to blame anyone for turning off comments after that.

They should have been posting the Windschuttle essay and links to Sophal Ear's THE KHMER ROUGE CANON:

http://jim.com/canon.htm

... links to Sophal Ear's THE KHMER ROUGE CANON:

http://jim.com/canon.htm

Done! Added as note no 7

Karl B, "Maybe my perception is incorrect, but Chomsky does not appear to have much support in America on the left for his political ideas. I rarely see him mentioned without some sort of qualification."

We're in an election year here. The extreme left are trying to make themselves look like "moderates" at the moment, because left-leaning candidates ALWAYS lose in the US. The left "intelligensia" (I wonder about their intelligence!) is aiding and abetting. As soon as the election is over, Chomsky will go back to being a "genius" on US university campuses.

Karl said "...Chomsky does not appear to have much support in America on the left for his political ideas. I rarely see him mentioned without some sort of qualification."

On the other hand, I always see his books at Borders and Barnes & Noble. Either people are buying them, or the employees love him and stock the books in spite of low sales. I would prefer the latter.

Karl said "...Chomsky does not appear to have much support in America on the left for his political ideas. I rarely see him mentioned without some sort of qualification."

Karl is largely correct if one is referring to the mainstream left, the left outside the academic laager. Chomsky's primary market lies in the academic left and students. He is roughly analogous to Ayn Rand in that his POV appeals to young, unseasoned students. With the difference that some of their professors (radicalized between 1967 and 1971) also favor him.

Theresa replied: "On the other hand, I always see his books at Borders and Barnes & Noble. Either people are buying them, or the employees love him and stock the books in spite of low sales. I would prefer the latter."

For the same reason one never see's Rand's books go out of print. Students and professors buy a lot of books. Especially when the professor makes it required reading for a 'history' course. There is less here than meets the eye. Chomsky's primary audience isn't influential and neither is he.....

amir taheri article of last chomsky book

Amir Taheri: CHOMSKY IDENTIFIES "THE EVIL" THAT HAUNTS THE WORLD
reviewing :"Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global Dominance"
http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/3089

Criticism of Chomsky is perfectly legitimate provided you stay with the facts of what he has actually said - applied labels such as anti-American or anti-Israel are meaningless.He has criticised both Israeli and American foreign policy severely .If his facts and arguments are incorrect -fine- he is simply wrong.In my experience he rarely is in matters of import.

To say he was a supporter of Pol Pot is ludicrous , he has pointed out and he is far from alone on this that the Khymer Rouge got to power as a result of the societal and political destabilisation brought about by American bombing .The Khymer Rouge were of course mass murdering genocidal brutes(something he certainly didn't deny). That didn't stop Washington helping them in their frictions much later with the Vietnamese when it suited.Talking about numbers when it was well over a million is , in my opinion, highly tasteless but the deaths were exaggerated by the US initially whilst the slaughter in East Timor was barely covered by the western Press.Why - well Indonesia was an ally !.All well documented , legally provable facts
He concentrates on American/Israeli policy because those are societies he is connected with. He never denied that the Soviet Union was a dungeon because that was the accepted and correct conventional perception and more than adequately covered in the mainstream press.Concentrating on US policy
and its evils does not mean he is blind to other injustices in the world

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