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Niko
It's my impression, too, that you're way too positive about America, and quite pro-American, inferring from your writings in this blog.

I just knew this was your correct impression.

What would interest me as a real pro-American more: Does David have a concept if there would be surprise upset in November? All the US-conservative blogs will suddenly likely turn from pro-Government to Government (e.g. Kerry)-critical - and this blog then remain pro-US-Government or ...?

Note from David: Christ, Kink, you hit the nail on the head. What's going to happen with this blog if Kerry wins? No concept... Where will I "suddenly likely" turn to? After all, I'm not a "real pro-American", as opposed to... what? So many questions...

--First of all: I deny the term "inform intelligently" for people like Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter. They might be intelligent, but play to their audience often in a quite nauseating cheap populistic manner. If you want to use "inform intelligently" for people from the right, ask me for conservative folks like Safire or Hanson, but please not Limbaugh. There are differences.--

--nauseating cheap populistic manner.--

Ahh, a complaint about Amis in various forms from the Euros for quite a long time now, me thinks.

You listen to Rush on a daily basis, then?

You might enjoy Hewitt.

Rush is entertaining, he himself admits it.

And Ann - a Constitutional lawyer attack dog and entertaining. What's not to like?

So, she goes over the top every now and then. Big deal.

@Klink

I know you were busy on Saturday and then had to frantically catch up with postings, but this does not excuse you superficial analysis.

"Schadenfreude" among Germans (not Americans in Germany) is more widespread than you uselessly try to convince us. I am not saying that people are happy when an American dies. I don't know anyone who is like that, but I know plenty of people who believe that Americans "deserved it". Even if you choose to ignore this, PS Latour is a demigod in Germany. This says more than words.

And those, dear Klink, are the FACTS. They stare at you, they yell at you and you ignore them. You close your eyes, you turn your back, you get away from them, but they are still there. You try to deny them, month after month after month on this forum, but they are still there.

@ Klink

Happy Mother's Day!

@David
Christ, Kink, you hit the nail on the head. What's going to happen with this blog if Kerry wins? No concept... Where will I "suddenly likely" turn to? After all, I'm not a "real pro-American", as opposed to... what? So many questions...

Don't be so pessimistic. You gotta admit that many other US-blogs might then turn Government- /Kerry-administration-critical, thus my wondering.

Note from David: Me? Pessimistic? With 1800 visitors on a normally dull Saturday? No way...

And since I believe that Bush is part of the root of the problem, but do see anti-Americanism outside politics, a suprise upset in November might let us all here pull on the same string then under a new and fresh Kerry-administration as our Western leader. I say this with no irony - very serious. As I also know that we will learn then who was genuinely critizising Bush-politics and who was a rabid anti-American. (Only a slim chance for that surprise upset though IMO)

@Sandy
You listen to Rush on a daily basis, then?
You might enjoy Hewitt.

No, I had listened for a while to the weekly of Drudge cause I kinda like his website. (one of my guilty sins, I know, I know) Not sure though how he could be compared to the others, despite that he is referred to as "conservative")

And Ann - a Constitutional lawyer attack dog and entertaining. What's not to like?

Please Sandy, don't make me laugh. I read a number of columns by her - there is a huge difference between some of the serious conservatives and someone like her.

@WhatDoIknow
"Schadenfreude" among Germans (not Americans in Germany) is more widespread than you uselessly try to convince us.

Hello? It was Klink who told here twice of the chilling anecdote how young Germans applauded to dying Americans at a Michael Moore performance. Could you stop this meaningless labelling and turn off your selective memory?

Not sure if it'd call it in general "Schadenfreude", perhaps more a cynical "we told you so", but believe me, I counter such people in an agressive tone (compared to my relative sweetness on here) cause I had friends or relatives of friends who served in the US-troops. I hammmer into such idiots the difference between critizising politics and gloating over the tragic consequences due to such clumsy politics for individuals who risked their own personal lives for our higher ideals. (SRK also made a good point in demonstrating something similar with his two website-approaches)

@Klink,

Bush is part of what "root problem" ?

Klink,

You got it wrong, again... I am not talking about youthful idiots who are genuinely happy when an American soldier dies. I don't care if you point them out. Those people don't exist for me. They are the garbage any democracy has to carry around.

When I say: "Schadenfreude" among Germans (not Americans in Germany) is more widespread than you uselessly try to convince us, I am NOT talking about those useless idiots. I am talking about "normal" citizens. I am talking about the ones that aren't idiots, but behave like them. The ones you claim that they don't exist.

@WhatDoIKnow
Then I say: "Schadenfreude" among Germans (not Americans in Germany) is more widespread than you uselessly try to convince us, I am NOT talking about those useless idiots. I am talking about "normal" citizens. I am talking about the ones that aren't idiots, but behave like them. The ones you claim that they don't exist.

First of all: They might be indeed useless idiots, but those students cheering at Michael Moore are Germany's future, so let's be a bit more hopeful here they might not be idiots some day afterall.

And I think you have a sense of hysteria to see widespread Schadenfreude amongst "normal" Germans over regular US-soldiers dying. I even have often to do in Berlin's leftist artsy-fartsy student/cultural quarter "Prenzlauer Berg" and even there you won't meet such notions widespread. Quite Anti-Bush yes, glowing over US-boys dying? No. (And you even meet many Americans there, mostly students...not many Bush-fans amongst them either though)

Where exactly in Germany do you live to experience such widespread Schadenfreude over the deaths of individual soldiers?

Klink,

Something is wrong with you. Well, I knew that already, but thanks for confirming it over and over again.

WHEN did I say that normal Germans are happy over the deaths of US soldiers ???? Are you OK, or is it just the stress of a too long weekend ? I really ask myself why I bother answering you anymore...

I said that the majority of normal Germans do not "enjoy" the deaths. But what they do enjoy is the temporary failures of the US in the WOT. This is when "Schadensfreude" shows up, they "deserved" it, whatever this IT might be.

Do you think you will be able to understand this ? Should I make a drawing for you to understand my point ? If you really feel like answering to a posting, maybe you should read it before saying anything.

@Klink,

If your comment is in fact true that many Germans take a degree of satisfaction in American’s failures, would you please explain to me what this says about Germans?

I look forward to your analysis.

@WhatDoIKnow
WHEN did I say that normal Germans are happy over the deaths of US soldiers ????.... I said that the majority of normal Germans do not "enjoy" the deaths. But what they do enjoy is the temporary failures of the US in the WOT. This is when "Schadensfreude" shows up, they "deserved" it, whatever this IT might be.

IT being in the last consequence the dying soldiers, no? As I said earlier: Schadenfreude is the wrong word, it is more a "told you so". Or "Why didn't Bush listen to his Allies?"

Scholl-Latour, whom you just now so passionately trashed, for example openly warned of the coming dangers, while Paul Wolfowitz predicted on Iraq prior to the War: ""If you're looking for a historical analogy," the soft-spoken, professorial Pentagon official suggested, "it's probably closer to post-liberation France [after World War II]."

Who was right - Scholl-Latour or Wolfowitz (they ironically both share a confident arrogance, btw - "I am right, the world is wrong")?

And where do you live in Germany that you can get such different impression on insisting on "Schadenfreude"?

Klink,

OK, you say it's "Besserwisser", I say it's "Schadenfreude" (including "Besserwisser"). I couldn't care less about continuing with you on this issue. Don't forget: on THIS forum, you aren't convincing anyone (just yourself).

I "just now passionately trashed" PS Latour, by saying he is a demigod in Germany ??? Klink, you are losing it... The fact that he is a demigod here is the TRUTH. So, the logical conclusion is that PS Latour was thrashed by saying the TRUTH about him ??? Wow...

Before I respond to Klink, I should like to point out that an article in the New York Times confirms what I wrote about France here on May 8, since it shows that in Spain, too, Bush and his clique are apparently so monstrous that any measure is good enough to get rid of him/them. Just read:

"People say, 'I'm very frustrated that I can't vote in the U.S. elections, because these are the ones that affect my way of life more than anything else,' " Ken Dubin, a political scientist at Carlos III University in Madrid, said in an interview.

Referring to the prewar meeting last year of President Bush, Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain and José María Aznar, who was then the prime minister of Spain and whose recent election loss was attributed to antiwar feelings by Spanish voters, Mr. Dubin said, "I've heard the comment, 'One down, two to go.' "

In other words, you can hardly deny that somehow, the mass murder of some 200 Madrid residents was, de alguna manera, a blessing in disguise, since… it opened the nation's eyes to the horrific nature of… who — the Islamic terrorists? No, you imbécils! To the horrific nature of George W Bush, of course, and the vassalos (Aznar, Blair, etc) who are his allies! (To paraphrase WhatDoIKnow, that seems to be the Greater Goal of today's leftists — a truly impressive view of the world situation.)

Apparently, the deaths of great numbers of Britons, Italians, and Poles would be welcome, as would those of Germans and Americans (remember that masterpiece of Euro humanitarianism — "They deserved 9/11"?), should need be. And if 200 dead won't do the trick, make it 2,000. Or 3,000. Or 30,000. Remember, now: Whatever it takes… (This is the humanitarian voice of Europe speaking…)

I am so happy to read how "curious minds like [Klink] would ask: What corporations want to place ads on [Rush Limbaugh's] show and thus indirectly get in bed with him? Like ole Deep Throat: "Follow the money". ;-) "

This is the cynicism that snickers at the true reasons Bush and Cheney (and Haliburton) really started the war in Iraq, and who laughs at all those who defend them, because they are naïve minds playing right into the hands of those greedy oil-hungry beings.

Of course, I would be more impressed with your cynicism, Klink, if you had a mind to apply it consistently everywhere. Say, with the peace camp whose members, it turns out, are apparently not as humanistic as they like to present themselves...

Because, speaking of greed for oil… If Claudia Rosett is to be believed, the countries that were the most energetic in protesting Saddam's ouster were Iraq's biggest contractors — with the more contracts they had, the more vocal they were in protesting his unfair treatment. As for the UN (you know, that place which, we are regularly reminded, aspires to be humanity's common problem-solver and could become so if only those silly Amis would be less arrogant and could be made to understand…), it turns out that its food-for-oil program became a gala of graft, theft, fraud, palace-building, and global influence-peddling.

But we haven't read much about that in the European press, have we? Good thing that the fight against that monstrous Bush camp is so important that we won't devote too much ink or air-time to those subjects, will we? (Good, especially for Europe's ruling élite — the business leaders as well as the political leaders — whose populations are busy shaking their heads at Bush and losing sleep at might because of the manner in which he has destroyed peace/common confidence/the process that would allow the UN to work, and of the ways to get him out at any cost, rather than ask a couple of pointed questions to their own leaders. But… heaven forbid this being described as Europe's ruling élite playing to their audience in "a quite nauseating cheap populistic manner"! Heaven forbid that Europe's citizens could be called as naïve as America's!)

As for this:

The problem now with a number of the populists on the right-wing radio-circuit is … not only horrible comments like the above on abused prisoners, but others in similar insensitive tone. Slurs against entire nations. Against gay marriage. Against people who broke the law, became homeless, took drugs. You name it.

Okay, I'll name a couple. How about this one for slurs against entire nations: "Their leaders are retarded, stupid, treacherous, war-mongering, oil-hungry, and as for the country's people (whom we otherwise love and apart from those individuals who are more advanced [i.e., who agree with us]), they are, if not desensitized zombies, too stupid (well, not as intelligent as us reasonable and peace-loving Europeans) to understand this."

I could go on with slurs against capitalism, Washington's allies, and even war, which I mention because there are quite a few of us that think that, given the circumstances, it was not unreasonable to have opened hostilities against a man such as Saddam Hussein. This is what happened, natürlich, and since then, the war and its protagonists (military as well as otherwise) have been slurred relentlessly in Europe's mainstream press, as have the benefits of no longer having that man in power and no longer having one's citizens tortured and killed at a rate of thousands every month. (Oh, and by torture, I mean having one's bones broken, one's face disfigured, one's hands cut off, the flesh of one's arms cut out to be force-fed to one's spouse, etc…)

Political incorrectness can be great and necessary, but has its boundaries.

Amen, brother… A—men.
(Wondering when the European press will get to understanding what boundaries mean — see UN and peace camp above.)

It's much easier to make (counter-)attacks with large, generalized statements — such as "Americans are arrogant" or "Bush is greedy" while "we are nice and peace-loving", rather than, say, "May Washington have been right to have invaded Iraq in April 2003 to bring down Saddam Hussein", isn't it?

I say that, because I notice there are many in Europe who attack others with these generalized statements, but without bothering to sum up much evidence (those facts some people like to make fun of or make obscure philosophical statements about to obscure a subject one doesn't like very much).

P.S. In my case, I have attempted to do sum up some evidence for my views (at least, I like to think I have). If you want to read more about my "awfully differentiated view", turn to Le Monde Watch (mostly in French), which attempts to be to France's newspaper of reference what David's blog is to Germany's media...

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