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The only "cycle of ignorance" evident here is completely within the mind's of germany herself. germany currently demonstrates a great recycling of her previous ignorances that have never truly been dissipated.
A recent interview with Victor Davis Hanson that describes well what a majority of americans feel about the "eu" and "modern" day germany. I would welcome discussion and thoughts from those who read the entire article.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12632-
a segment below-
* FrontPage magazine: Some of our European allies stooped to a pretty low level in the Iraq war. The French are quite a case study. What is their problem? Has anti-Americanism become so pathological there now that they think Saddam is Mother Theresa? It’s like George Bernard Shaw prostrating himself before Stalin. Give us your perspective.

Victor Hanson: Funny, isn't it? Europe is to New York and Boston like the latter are in turn to Boise and Bakersfield--affluent, elite, culturally aristocratic, and largely ignorant that the rest of the world does not operate on the premises of The Hague or Geneva. But why this European hobbits-in-the-Shire fantasy?

We've protected them for 60 years. They spend almost nothing on defense. And they see this wild, dynamic and utterly democratic popular American culture everywhere---and wonder why would the world want that crassness over French film or a German play? Who would prefer Starbucks to Vienese coffee, after all?

Once we withdraw some troops, once they begin to fathom the jam they've gotten themselves into through appeasing Middle East dictators and large, unassimilated Islamic minorities, and once-- terribile dictu--terrorists divert their attention to such easier targets, they will slowly and ever so insidiously began to talk about NATO, the Atlantic alliance, and the friendship of the United States.

The irony? George Bush was the best friend that the Europeans ever had. He really believes in making sacrifices for Western Civilization and promoting, not just talking about, our shared vision of liberal democracy that after all began in Europe.

His muscular action and courage to address the corrupt status quo in the Middle East (whether Arafat, Saddam, or the Taliban) allows Euros to triangulate like never before, playing good cop to our bad, and touting their soft power as the civilized alternative to us. The Euro diplomats and elites I've talked to are more worried about our growing pique than promulgating their own.

FP: Anti-Americanism is just skyrocketing throughout the world now. What’s going on?

Hanson:I don't think it is. The strange world of intellectual journals, CNN pundits, state radio andTV, etc. is perhaps comfortably anti-U.S., but the real world of immigration, fascination with U.S. products, mimicry of American culture, desire to visit and study in America is quite different.

Jamie, what do Bin Laden, President Musharref, Hanna Ahsrawi, the Saudi Royal Family, Iranian mullahs, Hans Blix, the German ambassador to the U.S., etc all have in common? Their kin are either in or were in the Great Satan to study, work, or play. Of course, boutique anti-Americanism is cheap, pyschologically satisfying (envy being a powerful emotion), and sort of hip--especially when the current U.S. president has a drawl, is Christian, from Texas, says “nuclar,” cares little for the NY Times op-eds, and pretty much thinks Crawford is a nicer place than Beacon Hill or Paris.

FP: But Mr. Hanson, because Saudis study in the U.S. does not mean they love the U.S. They exploit the U.S., and coming to the U.S. only escalates their hatred of us. The very fact that bin Laden was Westernized shows the great danger of anti-Americanism, no? Surely you are cognizant of the fact that many who come to the West seek to destroy it, exploiting our tolerance and freedom to ultimately suffocate it? Look at the Islamists in France and Europe.

Hanson: Of course, I understand that. But again you miss my point. Their hatred arises precisely out of desire--fascination with our wealth, freedom, tolerance, and liberality that turns to envy and finally to hatred (both for us and themselves)-when they ultimately realize that their own allegiance to fundamentalism, statism, autocracy, and sexual apartheid are responsible for their own misery.

So again, it is an Alice in Wonderland phenomenon of a pampered bin Laden with his video technicians and cell phones, or jet-setting Saudis with Mayo Clinic doctor visits-entirely parasitic yes, but also instructive because their own actions belie their rhetoric.

They do sense that they have failed and want the West they hate. It is our duty not to facilitate that hatred by appeasement or multicultural goobly-gook, but instead offer the carrot of reform and help-and the stick that lets them know in no uncertain terms our ancestors didn't die at Gettysburg, Iwo, or Pusan to give into their pathetic Dark Age fantasies. They must accept that the next regime, rogue nation-call what you will- who has any remote connection with those who commit a 9-11 like attack on the United States will learn that their complicity is synonymous with their utter destruction.

FP: Mr. Hanson, your new book also contains some material on one of your key interests: the strange connection between affluence and privilege and venom. True enough, ever since the counter culture, we see many of the most privileged people in the world full of rage and hating their own society. Tell us a bit about this phenomenon.

Hanson: What to call it? Prep-school populism? Isn't it grating to hear a Howard Dean of Park Avenue, Al Gore of a swanky DC hotel, John Kerry of Beacon Hill, or various endowed professors and spoiled millionaire actors screaming about economic justice and "the people"?

Do they think their education, money, travel, or class has given them some special "insight" into the machinations of a George Bush who has pulled the wool over all us yokels in places like Fresno? Are we all suffering from false consciousness and slavish consumerism that need the morality and wisdom of a Sean Penn, Gore Vidal, Tim Robbins, or Al Franken to free us?

Aristocratic angst is not new, but reminds me a lot of the sophists at Athens who were upset that their rhetoric--a product of investment in very expensive "thinkery"- did not always win praise for wisdom.

So we have this strange, rather sick idea in the United States-should we call it "Clintonism" or even "Gorism"?-that an 'educated' person from the Ivy League or a product of prep school, who can spin a sophisticated argument, replete with all sorts of sarcastic asides, smug name-dropping, and allusions to esoterica, is de facto either a genius to be listened to, courageous enough to follow, or moral enough to admire.

The fact is that since 9-11 those who have saved this culture--Army Rangers sleeping in the Afghan Mts., marines in the Sunni Triangle, millions of ordinary Americans who cleaned tables and poured cement, tough policy makers who endured terrible invective like a Puall Wolfowitz or Don Rumsfeld, and of course the President himself did so through skills other than verbage. Thank god for all of them in this hour of crisis.

FP: So how do you see the war in Iraq and the War on Terror in general right now? What course must we take? In what objectives and tactics in victory rooted?

Hanson: Beneath the hype? In less than 3 years we took out the world's 2 worst regimes--and fostered consensual government, not dictators in their place. Al Qaeda is on the run. No more 9-11-like attacks so far--knock on wood. Europe is learning that the US is really its best friend, but that Europeans' own cheap rhetoric and triangulation is a suicidal policy that will leave them alone and defenseless while we move on.

Libya is coming clean. Pakistan is helping hunt down OBL and revealing its nuclear roguery, a far cry from its pre-911 behavior. Iran is worried about a revolution and an unpredictable US. Soon no more troops in Saudi Arabia. Arafat is lord of his rubble heap, not in the Lincoln bedroom each month. So despite the tragic sacrifices of 600 American dead overseas, many hundreds wounded, billions spent, and perhaps a trillion committed to security and economic recovery from 9-11, America is doing pretty well and turning the corner.

We must press on in Iraq. Continue the pressure on the Saudis to join in the war against al Qaeda and embrace reform--or end up on the wrong side of a very angry US. We will not win until terrorists feel that they cannot live in Syria, Lebanon, and Iran. Those countries must change and they have a choice between voluntary radical domestic reform (unlikely), revolution by a democratic opposition (preferable) or military confrontation with the United States (the turmoil in Afghanistan and Iraq will not last for ever).

Victory will come when Americans accept that terror is but a method, not an enemy. We are at war with Islamic fascists who out of conventional military impotence employ terror, along with their autocratic patrons that either actively abet them or knowingly ignore them.

We will win when such regimes either fall or at least choose the Khadafy option of compliance (we will see whether it is genuine). That goal of ending the pathological landscape that gave us 9-11 is accomplished by military action, promotion of local reformers, and a massive ideological campaign to explain Western civilization and its transcendent values- not only to Arabs but to our own citizens who so often, almost criminally so, take it for granted or have not a clue about what allows them to prosper as we do.

All this can be done-but only if we learn from the past wages of appeasement, have confidence in our ability to defend our culture intellectually and spiritually, and never give into our fears.

FP: Mr. Hanson, thank you, our time is up. It was an honor to have you here. We hope you can visit us again soon.

You know, today morning I was visiting exactly this comment section in the "Zeit", after being made aware of it by a reader of this blog here (I think it was LGF, who copied his piece from their section over to ours). Now I think I could have avoided that, since it already dealt a serious blow to my day from early on. You know, I was expecting a *somewhat* more rational approach by "Zeit" readers from what you can read in most other places. I was wrong. I found exactly the same drivel. Only the aforementioned LGF and an other guy calling himself BS, who also posted here some time I think, made some different points. What I found astounding even more so was that the comments by both of these guys were left completely un-addressed. The fools just continued with what they want to get loose and didn't address the comment by LGF at all. Talk about don't spoil the party. One of those other guys was actually writing "ae, ue" etc. style instead of "ä" or "ü". Anti-Americanism is really getting together all generations, all sides. Frightening.

You know, in some way I appreciate comments by Klink (yeah, you might probably think meanwhile I'm obsessed with you, but this is not so - it's just that you again fit here) in the way that it's some kind of reality check for me. Klink is one of the few I do not agree with most of the time but who I deem worthy for that kind of reality check - not always, but sometimes. Unlike all the other guys who have a "different opinion" here, like Mathesar for example, who is a classical Anti-American. Ignorant, simplistic, generalizing, spitting hatred from the moral high-ground. Just the usual ammo you get by our media.

But as soon as I turn my head away and look around, I only see loads of dung again. Now, me, checking out different news sources many times more often than "the average" German, I still have a hard time finding some encouraging things in the German media landscape. I wonder how much more slim the chance for the other guy is to run accross those. It's basicly zero.

And this is what this blog is all about. There might be some things written by a few who do not join the typical biased German media, but their effect is non-existant. I believe this blog does not want to tell its readers that there is NO other opinion here in this country. One of the things I learned in my life till now is that there is nothing which has not yet been somewhere, sometime. What it wants to tell instead is that there is NO other SIGNIFICANT point of view whatsoever. It either goes by un-noticed, and even when it does not and some guy somewhere might actually consider it for an evening, the next days he gets "stoned" with the full program again and you can guess the outcome. Damn, do I have little hope for my country I tell you.

In this context - being interested in solutions not in worsening the situation - one part of me actually hopes that Kerry wins the election. Mind you, I myself agree with the Bush policy (the "Archilles Ferse" I see here though is simply the lack of support by many parts of the world, and that's a big one, pragmaticly thinking), and sure enough, the Germans will feel "confirmed" when he loses the elections and all kind of myths about his admin will probably stay forever - but when I think what would be best for the US-German relationship, and this is what I'm worried about in the long-run as a German citizen, I think two things have to happen:

The Democrats have to win the election in the US, and the Union has to win ours'. Of course, the Anti-Americans running around here wouldn't care a lot, but this described situation would simply be the best for the more bright-minded folks to win back ground in this country. In this constellation, the Union would have an easier time to do so than with the Bush administration.

Just imagine: The SPD/Greens, currently running the GOVERNMENT have a great deal of Anti-Americanism in their agenda. As I said, they are governing this country and therefor have to take the advantages of the US-German relationship into account. And look at what they STILL make out of it. Now, how do you think would they act once they are in the OPPOSITION? I would think the worst is yet to come then. So, the Democrats winning the election, thus making for an easier stand of the Union/FDP, is pretty much important.

You know, I'm NOT YET at the point where I would deem it appropriate to leave my country (nor could I afford right now), but I also don't want to see coming that far...

Regards
Alex N.

@Amihasser

(Anmerkung von David: Amihasser's comment wurde gelöscht - daher auch dieser comment, der sich darauf bezieht)

Just so everyone has an opportuinty to understand why Americans unlike the euro's choose not to worship at the alter of the UN, I invite your attention to the link below. All this information is very factual and is in public records

So while some of you might want to discredit the source, you cannot discredit the facts. But then again facts never are that important in euroland.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13346

(Notiz von David: ich habe Deinen comment gelöscht, der sich auf Amihasser bezog, dessen schwachsinnigen Kommentar ich zuvor gelöscht hatte. Gib ihm nicht die Ehre der Aufmerksamkeit. Das ist ein armer, kranker Wicht...)

BANNED IN BOSTON!

In its campaign to prop up its home town boy, John Kerry, The Boston Globe has gotton itself in one of its worst debacles since its most popular columnist was fired for plagerism.

The Globe ran up front page photos depicting American soldiers in a frenzied gang rape of Iraqi women.....The shame......Rumsfeld must resign.


The Globe got the pictures from a Boston City Counselor (Stadtrat) who in turn got the pictures from an African American activist named Sediki. Sediki got the pictures from the local Nation of Islam chapter. For our German readers, the Nation of Islam is a radical black separest group. All you have to know is that its founder had Malcom X murdered.

Turns out that the pictures of the aleged rapes were downloaded from IraqiBabes.com......a porno web site.

The Globe is a Tochterzeitung of the New York Times.

An incompetent, lying leftest media is not just a German problem.

http://www.themedialine.org/news/news_detail.asp?NewsID=5814

ARAB WORLD ENRAGED BY PRISONER ABUSE


For all the euro's who are hoping for a Kerry victory this November,which of course is possible, I want to share with you a brief summary of a clip CNN showed today. A Senate subcommitee is meeting today to hear the request for and additional $25.0B for Iraq. Well the demo's have nothing really to say so they choose to use their time to ask about prisoner abuse.

Now to why Americans do not trust the demo's on issues of National Security.

This is a question asked the ASECDEF by Senator Reed (D) of RI

"Do you consider placing a hood over the head a prisoner for 72 hours to be inhuman?" The ASECDEF gave some answer which unfortunately I did not hear as I was called for my doctor's appointment.

When I got to my treatment room, what I did hear was the Senator to say that was a non answer. He then began to lecture about inhuman treatment.

I thought to myself - we are not dealing with your average Saturday night drunk. Hell when I was doing my E&E training that was part of it. Actually most of the things that are now so inhuman occured to me as part of my training in the military.

My only conclusion was Senator Reed is either a total candy ass or he is french.

I wished the ASECDEF had no Senator I do not. Do you consider beheading or the flying of airplanes into buildings to be human?

Senator Reed just lost Kerry a few more thousand votes. I hope these hearings go on for months.

This will play well in the heartland.

@Alex N.

Du sprichst mir aus der Seele. Ich kann es nicht fassen, daß hier oder sonstwo jemand unter 'amihasser', der Name steht für sich, auch noch zu Judenhass ansetzt.

Dem Grunde nach könnte David/Ray technisch das Dreckschwein nachverfolgen. Aber es gibt natürlich auch Mittel genau eben dieses zu verhindern.
Tja, wenn ich seine IP in Erfahrung brächte, dann.........wer kann helfen?


alex,

I agree with you on "aSShOLE" (I just would have kicked him first entry/first day)

but I dont agree with you neither on kelly nor on cdu/csu

I think it would be a huge blow for the american "home front" if flip-flop kerry would get elected and I dont think that german-american relationships have the higher priority at the moment,

I m sure ms.merkel will enjoy to work with condoleza rice in 2008 after making the (bad) experience of outsourcing german foreign policy another 1/2 term to paris, as I understood her plans for "european unity" from the latest zeit-interview, after all it was cdu/csu that came up with the "look how clever the french are dealing with uno/amrica" bullshit a few years ago

ie I prefer to keep W and wait for "normalisation" till 2008

@George,

I posted almost the same comment some where else but gave the link to where the BG was backing and filling and backing and filling.

And the euro's wonder why we just do not embrace Big Media.

Because they lie and they spin and they flop about and forget.. and they are elites who talk more and listen less and write more and watch less.

This had to be Bush's fault you know. Tomorrow their editoral staff will make this out to be some big RNC plot and besides Bush is so evil it is probably true just not proven....

btw:

the fdp has no problem OUTSIDE of her own

many I know (including myself) are typical fdp-voters after checking wahlomat, but end up NOT voting for them because of the assholes/clowns that are running this party (to name names: assholes = moellemann, kubicki; clowns = westerwelle et al)

maybe in 2008 EVERYTHING will be better :)

@Alex N.
In this context - being interested in solutions not in worsening the situation - one part of me actually hopes that Kerry wins the election. Mind you, I myself agree with the Bush policy (the "Archilles Ferse" I see here though is simply the lack of support by many parts of the world, and that's a big one, pragmaticly thinking)

What you call the "Achilles Ferse", I would more define a "giant hole in the chest", since keeping together traditional US-Allies should be a natural task for a good US-President. Building on the legacy of previous Presidents instead of ruining it. Why does one need a leader? To gather and close ranks amongst Allies, not to divide like Bush did.

But generally an intelligent pragmatic realization you had here, Alex. SCNR.

ch speicher
many I know (including myself) are typical fdp-voters

Germany's college-pride "ch speicher" associating himself with the party whose values are most favoured by Klink (as Klink mentioned here several times before). Now that certainly ruined my day.

I'd also like to second Alex N. on Klink. He's a thoughtful guy who has taken some really cheap shots here and simply brushed them off. I don't always agree with him, but he's in a different league from amihasser et al. So don't take my disagreement personally, OK?

klink-

Now that it's clear Saddam was paying off so many Europeans, do you really think Bush had a chance of convincing them to join?

Mal wieder ein "nettes" Posting aus meinem Blog von jemandem, der tatsächlich meint, was er da schreibt:

---

Dein Engagement in Ehren, aber die werten Amerikaner haben schon viele Verbrechen begangen, wie viele andere Nationen und Religionen auch. Die Amis haben es nur nie bereut, noch ihre Greultaten entschuldigt, wie sie auch derzeitig frech in Kameras lügen und sich offensichtlich unverblümt ihre Vorstellung von Globus, Leben und Handeln schönreden, als auch Wahrheiten so lange zurechtrücken oder wichtige, aufklärende, erhellende Details unterschlagen, bis sie ihren Absichten schmeicheln.

Es geht in letzter Konsequenz schlichtweg um das Sichern und Kontrollieren von Energieressourcen. Dafür werden Menschen getötet und gequält. Die werten Amis können sich davon nicht frei sprechen. Die Ereignisse sind nicht zu leugnen. Und nun weint Amerika gemeinsam mit Deutschland um Nick Berg. Ist ein armer Kerl. Der war so jung und hatte sein Leben noch vor sich, genauso wie das 8 jährige Mädchen, das von einem Tommy erschossen wurde. Grundlos! Und natürlich schauen die Araber tatenlos zu, denn sie wissen genau, Amis und Tommies handeln da ganz uneigennützig, vor allem nicht, um sich zu bereichern, zu kontrollieren oder aus purem Spaß. Ärsche zu fotografieren von wehrlosen Gefangenen ist moralisch ebenfalls einwandfrei....vorausgesetzt man steht auf der richtigen Seite.

Es ist anzunehmen, dass die irakischen Probanden das alle freiwillig taten....auch das Sperma schlucken. Gibt es schöneres, als Sperma aus den U.S.A.?

Niemand - auch nicht meine bescheidene Wenigkeit- hat je gutgeheißen, dass Menschen umgebracht werden. Nur ist es mir ziemlich egal, welcher Nationalität die Toten sind. Ich habe nur dargestellt, dass man die Araber nicht unterschätzen soll. Und die gefilmte Hinrichtung ist doch nur eine Antwort auf die publizierten Demütigungen. Mit arabischer Ehre scherzt man nicht!!! Die nehmen das wirklich sehr, sehr ernst, wie der arme Berg beispielhaft demonstrieren musste.

ÜBRIGENS:
Saddam gab es schon vor 20 Jahren. Komisch, dass kein Hahn danach krähte, als er damals Menschen vernichtete. Und ganz plötzlich steht Amiland vorm Irak und richtet. Nicht, dass deren Ölquellen nur noch ein paar Jahre reichen und der Irak eine der umfangreichsten Ölvorhaben beherbergt, wie auch Erdgas in Turkmenistan über Afghanistan mit Pipelines in die richtige Richtung geleitet werden sollte. Nicht, dass auch nur irgend ein Menschenhirn auf die wahnwitzige Idee käme, die Amis hätten auch nur einen einzigen Augenblick an Öl oder Erdgas gedacht, als sie auszogen, die demokratische Welt vom Bin Ladin Terror zu befreien. "Honni soit qui mal y pense"

Wo warst du eigentlich, als es darauf ankam? Hast du die Toten in Vietnam geborgen und die Wunden der Lebenden versorgt? Sorgst du dafür, dass für den amerikanischen Fleischverzehr nicht noch mehr Regenwald zerstört wird, der u.a. das Klima global und irreversibel verändert? Nicht , dass wir beide uns schon wieder missverstehen. Wir reden hier von ein paar Rindern, die als Steak auf dem amerikanischem Pappteller landen.

---

at least he is multilateral engaged, thomas ;)

I like the "Steak auf dem amerikanischem Pappteller" part :D

-----------------------------

btw:

just why did "amihasser" just show us THAT ugly face today, I even doubt for a moment if it was "our" old amihasser?

must have had a bad day today, did I miss the good news?

Gee when Germany gets a leader then the US might have someone to close ranks with.

Of course, Germany leaders are much more concerned about getting elected and insulting both both the President of the United States and the American people than fighting terror.

Such is life.

I know before you all get started this is all Bush's fault. HELL, everything is!!


pps: I dont believe the fdp has "values"

the fdp just has an agenda, and if parts of this agenda had a chance to become real I would support it,

but to have "values" one needs credibility and integrity, thats what for me is embodied by george w. bush and tony blair, but not by guido westerwelle, john forbes kerry (who even misses an agenda) or klaus kinkel (klinkel?) - sry for the sheap shot :P

kerry will be blown out of the water in the november elections, he will fail miserabley. (alex, great thoughts in your post)
With that in mind, let me point out to those that think a kerry victory will help better promote or heal relations between germany and the US- it will do nothing of the sort. Replacing our president will not replace the mind-sets of millions whose own pathetics are down-played by blind and foolish anti-americanism.
Why would ANYONE think the US would want an alliance with such a population?
the words and depections of the US coming from germany will not be swept away or forgotten even long after Bush is out of office after 8 years.
Such talk of a re-kindling of relations ANY time soon is simple more euro fantasy.

such "amihasser" like hate speach is the normality in german forums,

(Note from David: amihasser's comment was deleted.)

---really sweet---

thats why I think the discussion here between us "debile Faschos" and fdp-aficionados is just annoying and effectless, cause we neither will make friends nor represent the real problem (I think if anything I only "represent" internet-addiction :D)

---

I m not even shocked, I mean there ARE these 20% anti-semits, they must be SOMEWHERE, at least we "catched" a left wing specimen of this sort (it helps me to cultivate my prejudices)


sry for the OT, pato

I didnt see your entry while I was posting about "ah"

David,

you wrote: "It seems to me that the mental coordinates of the ZEIT journalists need some readjustment."

I am surprised that you should include "Die Zeit" in your sweeping criticism of "the German media". Don't you think you are being somewhat unfair to Joffe, Herzinger and other "ZEIT journalists".

Just take these two quotes from "Die Zeit" (and there are many more examples):

Josef Joffe:

"Den Europäern fällt es schwer, in den Spiegel des Islamo-Faschismus zu blicken und darin die Fratze der eigenen Geschichte auszumachen."

http://zeus.zeit.de/text/2004/13/01__leit1


And this little gem which Leon de Winter published in "Die Zeit":

"Ich klage die europäischen Medien der Inkompetenz an, der Bequemlichkeit und der Parteilichkeit in einem Befreiungskampf, der kein Befreiungskampf ist, sondern ein Aufstand gegen eine demokratische Gesellschaft, für die Israel von der arabischen Welt sowohl beneidet als auch gehasst wird.

Ich klage die europäische Politik an, in Feigheit über die irakische Problematik hinwegzuschauen und die große arabisch-islamische Lüge zu akzeptieren, die erklärt, die israelischen Juden seien verantwortlich für das Elend im Nahen Osten.

Ich klage die europäische Politik an, mit der Androhung eines Wirtschaftsboykotts oder des Rückzugs ihrer Botschafter das korrupte, unrechtmäßige Regime Arafats zu unterstützen und damit den Kreislauf der Gewalt in Gang zu halten."

http://www.zeit.de/archiv/2002/22/200222_israelessay.xml

Note from David: I referred to the ZEIT journalists responsible for the introduction quoted.

@Amihasser

(Anmerkung von David: Der Kommentar von amihasser wurde gelöscht)

Es war eigentlich nur eine Frage der Zeit bis die „linke“ Gesinnung zur linken Ultima Ratio greift. Nun sind alle hier kahlköpfige Träger von Springerstiefeln und damit nicht mehr wert argumentativ bearbeitet zu werden. Nicht, dass aus dieser Ecke jemals Argumente gekommen wären. Das Totschlagsargument der Linken schlägt mal wieder zu.

Durch meine Arbeit habe ich nicht nur tagtäglich mit Fragen der internationalen Sicherheitspolitik zu tun, sondern ich erlaube mir auch festzustellen, dass mein „Bildungsniveau“ in dieser Branche dem des „normalen“ Bürgers mehr als gewachsen ist. Es ist bedauerlich zu sehen, dass in diesen Zeiten der Einfluss einseitiger Medien offenbar Menschen das eigene Denken abgenommen hat. Es werden nicht mehr Nachrichten gesendet, da es (speziell in Deutschland) der Pisa geschädigten Bevölkerung nicht mehr zuzumuten ist eigene Schlüsse zu ziehen. Es wird die moralische „Wahrheit“ der Verfasser verkauft und Amihasser ist hier nur ein demographisch repräsentatives Abbild. Sich weitere Gedanken zu seiner Einfältigkeit zu machen ist leider verschwendete Zeit.

Immerhin haben mittlerweile 3 moslemische Staaten den Versuch unternommen die Enthauptung eines unbeteiligten Ausländers im Irak zu verurteilen.
In diesem Sinne lesen sich die Pressemitteilungen des deutschen Außenministeriums der letzten Tage vielversprechend.
- Staatsministerin Kerstin Müller eröffnet Kinderrechtekonferenz in Sarajewo erschienen: 13.05.2004
- Gedenkveranstaltung des Zentralrats und des Dokumentationszentrums Deutscher Sinti und Roma zum 60. Jahrestag des Aufstandes der Sinti und Roma in Auschwitz–Birkenau am 16. Mai 1944 im Auswärtigen Amt erschienen: 13.05.2004
- Ausschuss "Multilaterales Nuklearumweltschutzprogramm in der Russischen Föderation" tagt im Auswärtigen Amt erschienen: 12.05.2004
- Aktionsplan zur zivilen Krisenprävention verabschiedet erschienen: 12.05.2004
Das Bundeskanzleramt fühlte sich auch nicht genötigt im Angesicht dieses Vorfalls eine Pressemitteilung zu veröffentlichen.

Es wäre erfreulich, sollte sich Deutschland in die Reihe der Länder einordnen, die zumindest den Versuch unternehmen Verbrechen im Angesicht der Schwere der Tat zu sehen; nicht ob einem der Täter oder das Opfer tagespolitisch eher in den Kram passt.

--ARAB WORLD ENRAGED BY PRISONER ABUSE--

They're always whining, seething and moaning about something.

When the "American Street" gets enraged, then it will give you pause.
--


As to allies, Klink, things change. I'm even wary of the Brits right now. W followed Tony's advice a couple of times and we got screwed, but we took it for a friend. Them bringing in mullahs from Iran to Najaf, tho, and propping them up, jury's out. Being the mother country, she gets more tolerance, but my tolerance is starting to wear thin.

--ARAB WORLD ENRAGED BY PRISONER ABUSE--

They're always whining, seething and moaning about something.

When the "American Street" gets enraged, then it will give you pause.
--


As to allies, Klink, things change. I'm even wary of the Brits right now. W followed Tony's advice a couple of times and we got screwed, but we took it for a friend. Them bringing in mullahs from Iran to Najaf, tho, and propping them up, jury's out. Being the mother country, she gets more tolerance, but my tolerance is starting to wear thin.

But we will protect them as long as we can. As far as frogistan is concerned, denuke them, build a wall around them and let them think they still matter to themselves.

There are many who complain about how the US is not doing a good job in rebuilding Iraq. I would invite you to the link provided to read some of the newspaper reports from the period on rebuilding Germany after the war.

What was being reported about the efforts to rebuild Germany sounds very familar to what the press is reporting today about Iraq.

Back then the press was the press. Today they are Big Media.

http://thecr.blogspot.com/2003_12_01_thecr_archive.html#107046828237531783

@ Thomnas:

"Es ist anzunehmen, dass die irakischen Probanden das alle freiwillig taten....auch das Sperma schlucken. Gibt es schöneres, als Sperma aus den U.S.A.?"

Ich weiss nicht....muss mal den Rotenburger Kanibal fragen....vielleicht hat er es probiert!

"Wir reden hier von ein paar Rindern, die als Steak auf dem amerikanischem Pappteller landen"

ummmmmmmmmm..........jetz weiss ich was ich morganabends grille.....Danke fuer die Vorschlag!

@George,

This is the email I sent The Boston Globe Ombudsman, ombud@globe.com

===============================================

Dear Sir:

I am writing this, as I surely do not understand the standards established by your newspaper. It must be a very low standard to allow the reporting of news something as outrageous as your most rape abuse article.

It seems you want to sensationalize the acts of a few American soldiers at whatever every cost. In your rush to accomplish this you mock the hundreds of thousand of military members who serve with honor and those Americans who support them.

Your organization and its standards personify why Americans hold Big Media in such low regard. I think by the latest opinion poll Big Media shares a ranking with used car salesmen.

It would appear the editorial position of your paper is now creeping into no only the news you chose to report but also the spin you take on the news you do report.

It is unfortunate your editorial staff does not demand the same standards of your paper that you seem to demand on the members of the Department of Defense. If they did, then I would expect to see firing and resignations. Of course, that will never happen as you are doing important things, publishing a newspaper not fighting a war on terror.

You ran an apology to your readers. The apology you should have ran were to the brave American soldiers who are fighting and dying each day to protect you and who allow you to smear them with your own bias.


Signed

============================================

I would never dream of getting more than a machine reply. No I never wanted a pony for Christmas.

Should I get a reply there might be hope to convince Klink to become a Bush supporter.....

LOL

If Kerry wins, you'll have a very brief "honeymoon", which will end
the first time the US has to do something and the UN (ie, one of
the French, Russians, Chinese, etc) disagrees - which it will, if for
no other reason than diplomatic horsetrading on this or that issue.
Kerry will attempt to bribe a resolution out of the SC, and it will
either pass and he'll get sandbagged (see French versus Colin Powell
early in 2003), or it'll drag on and on and he'll end up (like Clinton)
saying to heck with the thing and go unilateral. (Ref: Kosovo war)

This will cause UN fans to think the US is just the same old thing.
Within six months I'm sure that "Kerry=Hitler" will appear in some
European demonstration, showing that Godwin's Law isn't only
applicable to the Internet.

As much of euroland thinks the real terrorist in the world is GW. Well here is a bit of bad news for you.

Bush's campaign has hit the $200 million mark, doubling his 2000 record in less than a year of fund raising, donations through April posted on the campaign's Web site and tallied by The Associated Press show. The Republican incumbent has raised almost twice as much as Democratic rival John Kerry.

"We've raised money in every county in the United States of America and we feel we have the kind of broad grass-roots base to be competitive," Holt said Thursday

Now remember no one person can give more than $2,000.00. Some where in that 200 million is the small amount I sent. Klink has inspired me to send more and I will as the campagin progresses.

The news is going to get worse. The BC04 team has not cranked up the 527’s like the demo’s have. They announced this week that they would. This is the new home of soft money and it will roll in because Kerry is a twit.

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-presidential-money,0,7725708.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

@George,

Yes, I made corrections before I sent it.

*g*

Foobarista: Within six months I'm sure that "Kerry=Hitler" will appear in some European demonstration

The love of the Europeans for a possible future Pres. Kerry would be short-lived.

I said this a while ago: I saw on German TV a talk show with Madeleine Albright and two other German loosers(politicians) as guests. The subject was, guess what, Bush and his baaaad politics. OK, nothing new so far. The Germans showed a remarkable self-control and didn't howl "Bush=Cheney=Haliburton=Iraq !". Quite a feat, I would add. The discussion was polite and boring through the repetitions of the same lines.

But then, something happened ! I started paying real attention ! I don't know how the Germans got fooled into talking about Kosovo, but hey, sh..t happens... Madeleine started saying how Pres Clinton was pretty much exasperated with the noble Europeans and couldn't believe their appetite for prolonging the discussions and not doing anything ! (My personal opinion is that one doesn't have to be a texan cowboy in order to realize the impotence of Europe when it comes to making REAL decisions). She said this in a nice, diplomatic but unequivocal way. OK, I said to myself, now I get to see and hear something really interesting. The problem was that the German guests weren't intersted in going that direction. I guess one could say that they were interested only in "looking at the future"... Well, after that it was back to semi-sleep.

So, anybody here seriously believes a future Pres Kerry would look for advice in Paris ? Wishful thinking, but it won't happen. A Pres Kerry would tone down the rethoric and then he would do pretty much the same things as Bush. If the thought Americas's interest are in danger, he will act. And ACTION is what Europeans hate most.

"Der stellvertretende US-Verteidigungsminister Paul Wolfowitz hat eingeräumt, dass die Verhörmethoden amerikanischer Soldaten in irakischen Gefängnissen gegen die Genfer Konvention verstoßen."

(http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,299743,00.html)

Das ist ja immerhin ein Fortschritt. Vielleicht findet ja Herr W. noch heraus gegen welche internationalen Verträge und Rechtsnormen der Angriffskrieg auf den Irak verstösst (wenn er schon mal in der Bibliothek sitzt und sich auf weitere parlamentarische Untersuchungsausschüsse vorbereitet).

Oder wie der "War on Terror" mittlerweile das gesamte Rechtssystem der USA ausgehöhlt hat (ein Terrorismus-Verdächtiger - und das kann jeder werden - ist im mittelalterlichen Sinn "vogelfrei").

Ich werde jedenfalls die USA nicht mehr betreten, bevor dieser Spuk ein Ende gefunden hat.

Es ist sicher für die Amerikaner nur gut, wenn du daheimbleibst. Es gibt genug Menschen, denen es in den USA gefällt!

Gerade habe ich mal wieder WDR 5 zum Abgewöhnen gehört:

"Tagesgespräch
Sendung vom 14.05.2004, 09:20 Uhr
Die "taz", die in Berlin erscheinende Tageszeitung, war gestern ganz konsequent:
Was denken Sie: Ein richtiges Signal, eine Grenze zu ziehen und das Schlachten von Menschen nicht abzubilden? Oder müssen gerade solche Bilder veröffentlicht werden, um die Grausamkeiten und Unmenschlichkeiten eines Kriegs plastisch zu untermauern? Wo sind die Grenzen zwischen Informationsgebot und Handlangertum einer Propaganda? Erwarten Sie, was die "taz" vormachte, auch von Ihrer Tageszeitung?
Rufen Sie uns an - kostenlos unter 0800 5678 555
Gast: Bascha Mika, Chefredakteurin der Tageszeitung, Berlin
Moderation: Sabine Brandi"

In ihrer Anmoderation schiebt Frau Brandi diese Hinrichtung durch Terroristen zu den Unmenschlichkeiten des Krieges. Erst dachte ich noch, das klinge merkwürdig, als wären die USA für die Hinrichtungen verantwortlich, aber im Gespräch ging es tatsächlich in diese Richtung. Bis auf zwei Anrufer haben ALLE diese Tat den USA zugeordnet. Krieg sei eben grausam, er wäre nicht chirurgisch genau und blablabla. Nur ein Anrufer machte klar, aber es wurde weder Frau Brandi noch Frau Mika klar, daß es zwei Seiten gäbe: den Krieg der USA und den der Terroristen. Er meinte, man müsse auch die Brutalität dieser anderen Seite kennen, um die Situation unfassend zu verstehen. Ansonsten gab es eine Schuldzuweisung in Richtung USA, die man für die Brutalität der Welt verantwortlich macht. Daß Frau Mika dies den Anrufern nicht erklärt hat, kann ich nicht begreifen. Oder hat sie es selbst nicht verstanden? Die Welt wäre so friedlich, gäbe es die USA und Israel nicht! Ja, ja. Unsere lieben Terroristen sind nur ein bißchen quengelig. Das bißchen Terror.

Jeden Tag in den Nachrichten Bilder der Mißhandlungen der irakischen Gefangenen. Nick Berg - das Video muß gräßlich sein. Ein Anrufer sagte, er hätte es angeguckt und sei seit zwei Tagen neben dem Wind wegen der Grausamkeit, die er nicht begreifen könnte. Diese Hinrichtung wird lieber unter den Teppich gekehrt, zu grausam für unsere Augen. Aber es ist wichtig zu wissen, wozu Terroristen fähig sind. Es fehlt die richtige Balancierung in den deutschen Medien. Dadurch bekommen wir ein schiefes Bild.

"The love of the Europeans for a possible future Pres. Kerry would be short-lived."

I dont think so, he is VERY european, he even was in the "anti-war movement", the european left would LOVE him like she loves dean and moore and any other american that is willing to dispraise the united states, as long as he would leave iraq to an unscam-quagmire, what he already announced to do

the blame for the following civil war would of course remain with gwb, who would be held responsible for "growing muslim hatred" and all its "consequences" too

ie the german media would just continue to bash gwb and the gop, like she ATTACs him already for many things that actually were said and done by the clinton administration

Speaking of Nick Berg, heres more evidence that the evil US mass media are in bed with the Bush Administration.

@David
Es war eigentlich nur eine Frage der Zeit bis die „linke“ Gesinnung zur linken Ultima Ratio greift.

Das war ein Flame-Bait-Poster. Das für irgendwas repräsentativ zu sehen oder dem sogar die Ehre der Aufmerksamkeit von derart vielen Replies zu geben, ist lächerlich.

Durch meine Arbeit habe ich nicht nur tagtäglich mit Fragen der internationalen Sicherheitspolitik zu tun, sondern ich erlaube mir auch festzustellen, dass mein „Bildungsniveau“ in dieser Branche dem des „normalen“ Bürgers mehr als gewachsen ist.

Wenn ich mir manche Studenten hier im Forum anschaue (die ja alle AFAIK z.B. 9 Jahre Englisch-Unterricht hatten und Deutschlands Elite sein sollten?), fragt sich auch (der ungebildete) Klink, wo das deutsche Bildungsniveau blieb.

Immerhin haben mittlerweile 3 moslemische Staaten den Versuch unternommen die Enthauptung eines unbeteiligten Ausländers im Irak zu verurteilen.
In diesem Sinne lesen sich die Pressemitteilungen des deutschen Außenministeriums der letzten Tage vielversprechend.

Bundesaußenminister Joschka Fischer verurteilte die Tat als barbarischen Akt und kaltblütigen Mord.

Die Enthauptung des US-Bürgers Nick Berg sei ein "abscheuliches Verbrechen" und "einer der scheußlichsten Morde", der in der letzten Zeit ans Licht gekommen sei, sagte Schröder.

@Sandy
As to allies, Klink, things change. I'm even wary of the Brits right now. W followed Tony's advice a couple of times and we got screwed, but we took it for a friend.

As a Bush-supporter, I'd be wary of the Brits, too. Like a recent NYT-article even quoted conservative Tories being uncomfortable with GWB.

But then again, perhaps it is time some day to think: If the entire world and even conservative Brits are at odds with George, perhaps there is validity in the criticism against him of being a weak and lousy politician.

klink wrote

"manche Studenten hier im Forum anschaue (die ja alle AFAIK z.B. 9 Jahre Englisch-Unterricht hatten und Deutschlands Elite sein sollten?)"

ie:

I m worse than any amihasser, cause me 9 years of english were just 5 (with a tendency to ignore my homework) and I tend to type fast what I actually think and not what I calculate as most rewarding for my standing as the wanna be only representatvive voice of the better but OF COURSE still "anti-bush" germany in this forum?

at least, I want to have a chance to have a "pisa" or whatever(!) contest against you, you old anonymous but insulting asshole!

I m NOT representative for

- german students

- or "the elite"

NOT THAT I EVER HAD SAID SO, I just made the mistake to disclose parts of my identity to hostile anonymous ... (what was again the english expression for "dreckschleuder"?)

I wanna improve my english at any price to be fit to LEAVE germany SOON, to be made ridiculous by old cynics seems to be one of this

thx for the broad backing from all the other people (apart from gabi) here :(

you EARN each other, I will leave this forum NOW and this country as far as possible

@ch.speicher thx for the broad backing from all the other people (apart from gabi) here :(

As long as you are not attacked, which I don't remember happening (except by Klink), I wouldn't worry. I guess it means you are OK. You made some valid points on this forum in a combative way :-). The lack of "backing" doesn't automatically imply that people didn't agree with you.

I will leave this forum NOW and this country as far as possible

This is a good forum, in fact unique in Germany, and has a civilized tone (excepting trolls). No need to give up.

If you want to leave the country, I understand that ;-) If I may make a suggestion, I would say that the UK is a good country where you could try your luck if you decided to. Being part of the EU you don't have to go through all the formalities required by countries like the US, Canada, Australia. Big plus: the lifestyle and mentality there are totally different than in Germany.

if joe and george (which postings I always addressed with great respect) prefer "klink" over me and he is allowed to blame ME for MY "ignorance" after "ah" was riding anti-semitic attacks here,

thats just too much for me, for I dont have a skin like an old rhinoceros

I think this blog COULD be very important, if david and his team could spare more time to actually moderate it, STATUS QUO is that klink is moderating and writing three times more here than any david, ray or samir

he seems to have never heard of blogger, where he could get his OWN blog which I could AVOID while staying informed about german media here (without having to support them with my hits), I m sure david would give him a trackback for each and every entry and joe and george could enjoy their discussing with an typical "liberal" german "bildungsbuerger" hobby also THERE

Note from David:: Christian, this blog's concept initially did not include a discussion forum. It just happened that way. And you're right, I don't moderate - well, I check for amihasser and the likes, but that's about it. I just don't have the time to moderate, and I don't think I'd be good at it. Only occasionally I share in a discussion.

As to Klink: He is easily predictable in his statements; for our American visitors he provides an interesting example for the confusion that is so typical for the "moderate position" in current German politics. His attempts to provide an "alternative" view to our postings - to "counterbalance" us - are absolutely without any effect; we're adding and adding and adding visitors who share our view.

Just don't get excited about Klink. He's useful for us.


Bergs Familie legt Beweise für US-Haft vor

Darüber macht die Frankfurter Rundschau einen ganzen Artikel. Krampfhaft bemühen sich die Journalisten, hier eine Schuld aufzuweisen im Sinne von, wenn die Mutter den Nick nicht geboren hätte, wäre er im Mai 2004 nicht im Irak gewesen. oder hat die Großmutter Schuld? ich bin zu blöd, diese Logik zu verstehen.

@ch speicher
I m worse than any amihasser, cause me 9 years of english were just 5 (with your tendency to ignore my homework)

Just curious: How is that possible? I thought English is mandatory from 5th grade on for those heading for Abitur?? (and the tendency to ignore homework sounds believable *g*)

NOT THAT I EVER HAD SAID SO, I just made the mistake to disclose parts of my identity to hostile anonymous ... (what was again the english expression for "dreckschleuder"?)

No. *You* are responsible for what *you* write, not anyone else. No one can push you into using words you don't want to or later regret, only you can do that. Cut this crap of blaming others, but take self-responsibility for your writings (especially if you see American values as your role-model - but I think anyhow I am more pro-American than you).

I could have written any of my postings also under my real name - I used no foul language to be ashamed of anything. (Unlike you, who openly spouted again and again foul language) And I also revealed parts of my background. But I'd have no problem perhaps meeting one day Ray or David someplace and looking them in the eye and neither had they probably.

thx for the broad backing from all the other people (apart from gabi) here :(
you EARN each other, I will leave this forum NOW and this country as far as possible

Closest from Berlin would be the Polish border - only an hour away. You could be there by 4 or 5pm. HTH.

Christian, this is now your second running off within a couple of weeks. Grow up for Christ's sake - you are too old to whine for "backing". You are a friggin' University student, not in elementary school, right? What do you do in classes, when someone disagrees with you?

"You earn each other" actually only reveals your current lack of discussion culture. What irony to mention Gabi as positive example - she is the only other person having apparently a real problem here with engaging in arguments or being confronted with things (like her once attributing a quote to me weeks ago).

Ray, David, Helian, Joe, Pato, Karl, WhatDoIKnow, Sandy, Erik, etc., etc. - they all have shown more discussion culture than you and Gabi. Even if it occasionally might involve a putdown into my direction (or others) or vice-versa, duh. It's part of the game of arguing over political issues, you don't react like a child to either whine about "lack of backing" (mummy's skirt?) or flee into puberty-style foul insults.

Considering how you react already in the safety of being online and that you stayed home on May 1st, I am beginning to wonder how you manage to get through life.

if joe and george (which postings I always addressed with great respect) prefer "klink" over me and he is allowed to blame ME for MY "ignorance" after "ah" was riding anti-semitic attacks here,

Hello, anybody home? Joe and George prefer to *heckle* my opinions.

And I blamed you for not behaving like a University-student, but like a pathetic whiner. Grow up, stop insulting others like a teen, stand by your writings and we might have a beer some day, despite that you happen to worship the wrong President at the moment.

at the moment the "pathetic whiner" would crush your fucking face if you where close to me :|

where did I write again that I fear you? I just cant stand you, asshole

@ch.speicher

I understand what you are saying and I really don't think that anyone here has favorite partners for discussions. Joe and other Americans are interested to see how a liberal German thinks. They don't get to see them and talk to them in real life every day, like we do (LUCKY them).

We, in DE, are surrounded by them and are not all that interested in their opinions. But don't forget one thing: nobody is fooled by people as Klink on this blog ! Another consolating thought: there are people much worse than Klink :-) Yes, he posts a lot. He has a big ego and likes to preach, like many others in this country. So what ? Long time ago I wasn't able to make my girlfriend quit smoking. How could I then influence the political opinions of a stranger ? I can't, and I don't care about it.

What could David do ? Keep Klink & Co out ? Sure, it would be an idea. I wouldn't drop any tear. But if David chooses not to do that, fine.

If and when you think you are unjustly accused of something and you find no fault with yourself, let it go. Ignore it !

If you attack people personally, they will bite back. Nobody will turn the other cheek. Christ is not posting on this blog.

I dont have to be called "coward" by YOU for I have been in my short useless live been hitten 3 times in the face while "discussing" with jew hating nazi-pigs, they seemed to had the better arguments then and were pretty representative at that moment :|

but if I wanted to go out with the israelian flag on may 1, I would only do so if I were sure to be able to defend it, for israel is NO poor helpless victim that needs to be mortified by leftist idots (the REAL german elite, some of them might growing up to be "aussenminister" some day)

those who have a masochistic pleasure on being beaten up by holigans on may1 should at least bring their own flag to the party!

so if you call me a coward and bonehead "between the lines", I feel free to call you "asshole", asshole

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