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Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
/sarcasm

according to their respective websites, cnn had it at 1:06 est, which is 7:06 mez. süddeutsche had it at 6:32 mez.

but even if cnn had the news at 6:20 mez, we're talking about twelve minutes. that's ridiculous.

Comment by David: CNN updates regularly during the day and then changes the time stamp. It's 9.18am mez right now. That's the way it's done in the news business...

6.20am was the time I checked CNN's site. The piece was online before.

btw: deutsche welle had it at 5:00 utc, which is 6:00 mez. your turn.

ULULULULULULULULULATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Couldn't find any other angle against German websites than the well-known fact that many don't update during the night? Come on, Israel is involved, I am sure you can do better! :-)

I just checked news.google.de. The first _original_ German mentioning was by tagesschau.de - "3 hours ago" says google. Now is 09:15, that would make it +/- 30 minutes around 06:15.

How is that different than international media? (and "original" meaning a site which just doesn't publish in-linked wires, but has apparently writing staff on hand)

and note to US-lurkers:

tagesschau.de is ARD! The shock, the horror, right? Just kidding. ;-) (I haven't watched any ARD-news myself in a long time)

Spiegel:

Als der gelähmte Scheich Jassin nach einem Moschee-Besuch vom Rollstuhl in sein Auto steigen wollte, feuerten israelische Militärhubschrauber drei Raketen ab.

I'm crying here.

Wait for the whining from the German media. This will be the more interesting story.

The poor old man in the wheelchair ...
Rambo Sharon ...
Israel killed the roadmap ...
etc. etc. etc.

Here, in contrast, the same facts as reported, without the cheap emotionalism, by the FAZ.

Die israelische Armee hat den Gründer der Hamas, Scheich Ahmed Yassin, bei einem Luftangriff auf Gaza getötet. Laut Augenzeugen feuerten Hubschrauber am Montag morgen drei Raketen auf den im Rollstuhl sitzenden 67jährigen, als dieser gerade eine Moschee verließ.

Spiegel is lower than yellow press.

@jonas: The Israeli press was faster with a critical analysis:

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/407423.html

"Analysis / Hamas may be only side to profit from Yassin's death"

And I agree with it - see also the open powerbattle between PA and Hamas since Israel's announcement to pull out of Gaza.

Of course, such views are only welcome here, when similar analysis is printed from German press? I know, I know, it's just a German mediablog. :-)

Neutraler Beobachter-

How come that I am not surprised to read such things from Haaretz?

I know, they would rather engage in a critical dialogue with Hamas and that is what the overwhelming majority of the German media will also recommend.

But unfortunately the only language that Hamas understands is the language of violence.

Bottom line: I disagree with Haaretz. So what?

"Als der gelähmte Scheich Jassin nach einem Moschee-Besuch vom Rollstuhl in sein Auto steigen wollte, feuerten israelische Militärhubschrauber drei Raketen ab."

I wonder if any of the German press can recall Leon Klinghoffer. The imagery is ironic.

BTW, the murderer of Leon Klinghoffer was found lying low in Saddam Heussein's Iraq. He just recently passed away of natural causes in a US jail cell......another good reason why we went into Irak.

After this event we will get a vivid impression of the differences between Western anti-Americanisma and anti-Israelism. Had the U. S. killed bin Laden, as much a founder of a terrorist organisation and responsible for numerous innocent people dying, there would probably have been warning voices that this would not solve the problem of terrorism, but there the main line would have been very, very low-key, but positive. When Israel kills a founder of a terrorist organisation who is responsible for numerous innocent people is target of international condemnations. By the way: Just saw one political leader of Hamas (Forgotten his name, but it is the one with glasses and beard that had been injured by a previous Israeli attack) declaring war on 'the Jews', who had once killed the prophet and now Mr. Yassin. Don't you think THIS is a statement the world should read listen to more closely. Perhaps this could open some eyes about what is going on?

N-TV and ZDF reported today of "Trauerzüge für den ermordeten Hamas-Führer" (mourning rallies for the murdered Hamas leader).

Oddly, Israeli victims of Palestinian terror acts usually only get "getötet" (killed, as in: "killed in an accident"), while the poor, old, innocent Scheich is a victim of murder.

thomas,

first of all i really don't think that killing yassin will solve the problems in israel. i can't understand why anybody would still think that violence will be stopped by violence, especially given the history of this conflict. the killing of yassin is just fuel to the fire - another "martyr murdered by the zionists" - especially that one - will rather spur the hatred than calm it. yassin may have been a legitimate target (which i doubt, but i can pretty well understand why sharon thinks different), but getting rid of him may cost a heavy price. one can count the days until the first attacks carried out by "sheikh yassin brigades".

Technically off topic but I have to say that the German press reaction this morning was mostly sane compared to this...

If you really want to see political bias passing all bounds of belief you have to turn to the BBC
-----------------------------------------------------------
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/3557111.stm

Sheikh Yassin: Life in pictures
1)Hamas spiritual leader Sheikh Yassin, assassinated by Israel on Monday, was an inspiration for disillusioned young Palestinians.

2)He devoted his early life to religious scholarship.

3)He was welcomed by Yasser Arafat when he was released from prison in 1997, in exchange for two Israeli agents held by Jordan after a botched mission to kill a Hamas member.

4)Since then he has become an increasingly powerful figure, while maintaining good relations with the Palestinian Authority.

5)But he was frequently critical of the Middle East peace process.

6) He urged Palestinians to offer their lives in the intifada, saying they would become martyrs.

7)His hatred of the United States was also well known.

8)Hamas support was boosted by its charitable activities and support for Palestinians suffering economic hardship.
----------------------------------------------------------

The man was clearly a combination of Mother Teresa/Nelson Mandela and Hamas is apparently a charity comparible with the Red Cross and Medecins Sans Frontiers.

Can you believe that #6? No mention that Hamas is a listed international terrorist organisation or that the martyrdom consists of blowing legs and arms off school girls, blinding waitresses, and vapourising Indian imigrants whose crime was to be in Isreal looking for casual work.

Somedays you have to be glad to live in Germany where you only have soggy liberal cotton wool like ARD and Spiegel to put up with. Britain's state funded broadcaster bats for the terrorists.

@ vasili

You may well be right about that, I also have my doubts if this will improve the situation in the short term (although I think it could weaken Hamas in the long term). But that's not my point. One can with good reasons be full of doubts if this was the right decision in a political sense. But I find it unbelievable and unbearable that the 'international community' (even Jack Straw) and the media now begin to bash Israel for its decision to kill a person responsible for the death of hundreds of Israelis, whose only aim has always been to destroy the state of Israel and who kept and kept inflaming the Palestinians with hatred, when they got a chance to do so.
If Spain had the opportunity to kill an ETA leader they couldn't get hold of otherwise - would they do it? If the U. S. had a chance of killing OBL - would it do it? What about India and Kashmiri terrorist leaders? Or Russia? What about the killing of Saddam's sons?
In all of these cases, those states would have (or do have) made the same decision as Israel has now, despite the fear that this could enrage extremists even more. Why then, is it that only Israel is being criticized this harshly? Why then, all the West's understanding of the Palestinians' fury over the assissantion of a mass murderer? Why our understandning for a Hamas leader calling 'the Jews' those, who once already had 'murdered' the prophet? Would we have shown the same understanding for the Basques and would we have bashed Spain for killing an ETA leader? We wouldn't. And we shouldn't. Yassin wasn't part of a resistance. He was no militant. He was a terrorist. We should keep that in mind.

You've got to love SPIEGELs typically editorializing headline, "Scharons Tötungsbefehl nährt den Hass." As if the editors of SPIEGEL weren't the biggest hatemongers to turn up in Germany since Julius Streicher. Sometimes their chutzpah is so extreme it's almost charming.

What's your point? I saw the news minutes after it happened on ZDF online. At the same time the Jerusalem Post didn't have it but Haaretz did.

zu thomas: Exekution ohne Urteil widerspricht dem Völkerrecht. Staaten, die sich selbst als Rechtsstaaten und freiheitliche Demokratien begreifen tun sich mit solch einem Vorgehen keinen Gefallen - und versagen immer kläglich, diese Aktionen im Nachhinein moralisch zu rechtfertigen.
Natürlich war Yassin ein Terrorist, durch die Tötung aber wird er zum Märtyrer. Jeder, der glaubt, Israel wäre jetzt sicherer, lügt sich in die Tasche. Auf Yassin wird einfach der nächste Radikale nachrücken - ich sehe nicht, das die israelische Regierung einen entscheidenden Vorteil errungen hat.
Grundsätzlich haben Tötungen immer einen faden Beigeschmack, der eher an Willkür und Staatsterror denken lässt als an Befreiung. Gerade in der arabischen Welt wird soetwas sofort als Beispiel für die "Doppelmoral" des Westens herangezogen (ziemlich abstrus, indem sie ankreiden das "ihre" terrorakte viel heftiger kritisiert würden) und dafür, das die westlichen Demokratien den eigenen Regimes moralisch keinesfalls überlegen wären - einen Eindruck den man, wenn man wirklich an einer Befriedung des Nahen Ostens interessiert ist, besser entgegenwirken sollte.

Hoffentlich schreien all die auch dann nach Rechtsstaatlichkeit, wenn sie selbst zum Opfer werden.

Gesetze sind Menschenwerk und dazu da, Sachverhalte für eine größtmögliche Vielzahl von Menschen möglichst gerecht zu regeln.

Daß sich Terroristen auf Rechtsstaatlichkeit berufen, zeigt doch, wie unmoralisch diese Menschen sind. Sie verweisen auf Gesetze, an die sie selbst sich nicht halten.

Wenn Gesetze zu schreiender Ungerechtigkeit führen, gibt es eine höhere Instanz: die Menschenwürde. Für mich ist die Menschenwürde der Israelis, oft Schulkinder, die in Bussen sitzen, in Restaurants, höher einzuschätzen als die der Terroristen, die sich auf unsere Gesetze berufen wollen, sich Sprengstoffgürtel umschnallen und sich und möglichst viele andere Israelis mit umbringen. Die haben sich selbst ihrer Würde beraubt und haben kein Recht, sich auf unsere Gesetze zu berufen.

Das höchste Gesetz ist die Menschenwürde und nicht irgendein Gesetz. Wer durch Terror tötet, hat sich außerhalb der Gesellschaft gestellt.


i guess israel is criticized mainly because of its (once again proved) stupidity. it's not the first time they killed (or tried to kill) a leader of the intifada. each and every time the answer was a new outburst of violence. not even the most hawkish hardliner can really believe that killing yassin was of any use. israel simply took revenge today. understandable? yes. clever? no. useful to make israel a safer place? no way.

p.s.: unlike you, i don't see an advantage of this killing - neither in the short nor in the long term. what's different now? yassin wasn't a mastermind who hamas will miss painfully (sure one doesn't need to be very clever to walk among some israelis or take a bus). also i don't think that the idf deprived hamas of a leading figure this morning - yassin as a "martyr" will be a better spur for those guys than he ever could have been when he was still alive. he was admired for being a charismatic man in a wheel chair. now he will be admired as a charismatic man in a wheel chair that was murdered by those zionist cowards, giving his life for the palestinian case. if any young freedom fighter had still needed a reason for killing, here we go now.

p.s.: if the methods of each side won't differ anymore, one side will have won. guess who. it's democracies' destiny to enter the arena with one arm bound to their back. that's what makes them democracies.

gabi,

kinder in flüchtlingslagern haben auch menschenrechte. nehmen sie das als denkanstoss, konstruieren sie bitte keinen entschuldigungsversuch für anschläge daraus.

@gabi

"Hoffentlich schreien all die auch dann nach Rechtsstaatlichkeit, wenn sie selbst zum Opfer werden" könnte man wohl auch mit Populismus bezeichnen und findet man vereinzelt nicht nur beim Thema Terror, sondern genauso auch bei Themen wie Kinderschänder, Frauenvergewaltigern, etc. -> "Rübe ab"?

Und ja, hoffentlich schreien all die, die Opfer geworden sind, auch weiterhin nach Rechtsstaat. Sonst gibt es nämlich keinen Rechtsstaat mehr.

Erschreckend, wie schnell manche Leute bereit sind, den Rechtsstaat in Frage stellen. [Bitte hier das übliche Benjamin Franklin Zitat einsetzen]

Vasili,

he was admired for being a charismatic man in a wheel chair.

Why don't you make a visit to MEMRI and look up the different occassions where Yassin personally demanded that young Palestinians give their life for the glory of the Palestinian's Holy War?

it's democracies' destiny to enter the arena with one arm bound to their back. that's what makes them democracies.

What a Dhimmi you are. Hey, have you seen LOTR: ROTK? Did you like it? Remember what Denethor did to himself when the Armies of Darkness were attacking Minas Tirith?

---

What about this angle:

Yassin has been constantly glorifying suicide death, i.e. becoming a Shahid in Islamic terms, or being killed in combat against the Zionist Entity. Death during combat was defined as a first-class ticket to heaven, and not as a personal tragedy. (The same nihilism is spread by al Qaeda, you know the slogans: You love life, we love death.)

Isn't it strange then that Sheikh Yasssin (or al Qaeda's top terrorists) has been constantly shielded by masses of bodyguards?

Of course it's not strange. Yassin was not advocating his death, but the death of others, of young children, of young men. He did not want to die, he wanted others to die so he can live as a leader and not like the cannon fodder he sent to Israel.

Remember that.

Right now (19.00) on the state German TV ZDF: "There must be a meeting on the fight with terror in Brussels, but the murder of Hamas' leader Sheikh Jassin overshadowed it".
Mind-boggling, no? How the death of the prominent terrorist can "overshadow" such a meeting?
And of course, they repeated all that drone about his love to children and his devotion to the just cause. And, of course, they, as usually, commented only on the Palestinian point of view.
But the question is: what a worldview should one have to believe all that sorry bullshit? How brainwashed should be the one, who doesn't turn these "news" immediately off?

LGF put up a spoof as to what the BBC would have done when a certain mustachoid German died.

flursn,

does "advocatus diaboli" tell you something? you're perfectly right that yassin wasn't practising what he preached, but i doubt that his bunch will think the same. no, i bet they won't. but why don't you go to gaza and hand out some leaflets to explain the whole thing to those hamas members? i'm sure they'll be glad to learn that they were misled. peace is at hand's reach for all we yet have to do is tell them the truth.

and you call me a dhimmi? ;-)

@Neutraler:
Ich stelle nicht den Rechtsstaat in Frage.
Ich klage die doppelte Moral all dieser Leute an, die immer nur dann nach dem Gesetz rufen, wenn Israel und die USA agieren.
Erschreckend, wie schnell Sie ein Urteil parat haben und sich selbst auf den moralisch hohen Thron heben.
Erschreckend und dumm.

Yassin is one of at least three blind clerics the jihaists follow. One in London's Finsbury Park mosque, one rotting in NYC fed prison, and the other just now blown the hell out of his chair. A chair that he refused to leave himself and instead sent his young woman to death seeking, ummm, maybe not virgins this time but perhaps a chip n' dale troup in allah's heaven.
Blind men are not leaders and one's who cannot even leave their own comfort chairs will only know what human blood is when it is their own that they see. Good riddance! to this foolish coward.

@gabi

Na, gleich mit Beleidigungen wie "dumm" kontern? So sehr getroffen?

Selbstmord-Attentate von Terroristen finden natürlich ebenfalls - und zu Recht - riesigen Platz in den Medien. Es ist einfach Unsinn zu behaupten, daß dort niemand nach dem Gesetz ruft. (Es gab übrigens laufend "targeted killings" gegen Terroristen - dieser Fall hier bekommt so viel Aufmerksamkeit wegen der "Prominenz" (hüstel) dieses Terror-Führers)

Ihr Satz "Hoffentlich schreien all die auch dann nach Rechtsstaatlichkeit, wenn sie selbst zum Opfer werden" legte durchaus nahe, daß man Rechtsstaatlichkeit schon mal hintenan stellen könnte, wenn man es mit Leuten zu tun hat, die sich "außerhalb der Gesellschaft gestellt" haben. (ebenfalls Ihr Zitat)

Und genau dies bestreite ich.

Ja, Neutraler, Ihre Dummheit erschreckt mich sehr. Das müssen Sie jetzt aushalten. Selbst mit viel Phantasie kann ich in meiner Kommentierung kein Plädoyer für Rübe ab finden. Ich nenne Dummheit Dummheit, wo immer ich sie treffe. Und Ihre Kommentierung ist dumm.

"A chair that he refused to leave himself..."

sic!

zu gabi:

beleidigungen sind immer ein zeichen für schwache argumente. damit beweist man keine intelligenz.

Vasili, you still don't get it. It's not Hamas that is being misled. It's Hamas - and used to be Yassin - who were misleading the Palestinian. Ever wondered why it never was high-ranking Hamas members who committed suicide attacks but young people from the streets?

Neutraler, I think you're being disingenuous when you say the media refers to the law when suicide bombings occur. My experience with the German and European media is that these bombings are usually "relativized" and presented in a larger context as predictable responses to Israeli policies, or are portrayed as a pretext for the Israelis to go and seek revenge.

The EU is waging a proxy war against the US in the Middle East. Period.

Vasili, you still don't get it. It's not Hamas that is being misled. It's Hamas - and used to be Yassin - who were misleading the Palestinian. Ever wondered why it never was high-ranking Hamas members who committed suicide attacks but young people from the streets?--

Or their kids????? Their kids are too good to participate, they have goals for their kids.

Just the poor slob who used to be able to provide for his/her family by splodydoping. Now Saddam's money's gone........

Right on. And while Yasser Arafat stated the following on December 18, 2001 in Ramallah

With God´s help, next time we will meet in Jerusalem, because we are fighting to bring victory to our prophets, every baby, every kid, every man, every woman and every old person and all the young people, we will all sacrifice ourselves for our holy places and we will strengthen our hold of them and we are willing to give 70 of our martyrs for every one of theirs in this campaign, because this is our holy land. We will continue to fight for this blessed land and I call on you to stand strong.

his wife was enjoying a luxurious life in ... Paris. She does not look that much upset on the photo about her peoples suffering, does she?

Looking at the photo one could understand why someone who looks like Miss Piggy would be living comfortably among the frogs.
Looks to be she uses the same hair stylist as the studio-tanned showboat de villipin.

flursn,

with you, using irony is to cast pearls before swine. it's no use. you wouldn't recognize it if it bit your nose.

Sorry, I wasn't expecting a sophisticated act like using irony from you.

Ich wundere mich doch sehr, daß selbst in dieser Diskussion hier allein das Wort Rechtsstaat diese Emotionen erweckt. Rechtsstaat ist kein festes Gebilde, es ist ein Produkt von Menschen. Auch dem Polizeigesetz in Deutschland ist der Begriff der gezielten Tötung bekannt. Es gibt eben nun mal Menschen, die andere töten und deren Opfer. Wenn ein Mensch mit einer einzigen Handlung zB dem Herstellen und Benutzen einer biologischen Waffe Hunderttausende töten kann oder auch nur Tausende, ist es dann eine Rübe-ab-Mentalität, wenn man darüber nachdenkt, daß ein gezielter Schuß viele Opfer retten würde? Der Rechtsstaat bricht nicht zusammen, wenn man als ultima ratio derartige Aktionen zur Rettung vieler zuläßt. Diese Diskussionen müssen gerade bei der Terrorbekämpfung geführt werden. Daß sich gleich Leute wie Neutraler finden, die Rübe-ab-Mentalität kreischen, ist widerlich. Diese Diskussionen sind notwendig. Eine Demokratie, die sich nicht verteidigen kann/darf, weil die Masse lieber zu Hause auf dem Sofa TV guckt, ist zum Sterben verurteilt.
Wer hat denn ermöglicht, daß hier Tausende demonstrieren können, gegen Bush, gegen Sharon? Das waren die USA. Schon vergessen? Unsere deutschen, europäischen Selbstverständlichkeiten sind nicht von Gott gegeben, dafür sind Menschen gestorben. Und diese Werte werden nicht zu erhalten sein, ohne dafür aufzustehen. Ob das Aufstehen allerdings reicht, da bin ich mir nicht mehr so sicher.
Terroristen müssen das Signal erhalten, daß sie niemand unterstützt und toleriert und auch nicht ignoriert. Nur so werden sie bekämpft werden können. Was nutzt denn ein Dialog mit dem Islam? Es ist nicht der Islam, es sind die Terroristen, die sich hinter ihm verstecken. Muslime, Christen, Atheisten, alle Menschen müssen sich gegen den Terror aussprechen und ihre Regierungen unterstützen. Solange immer wieder nur auf Sharon eingeschlagen wird, sehen sich die Terorristen doch bestätigt und machen weiter. Sie zu ignorieren, kostet in Israel Menschenleben.

@Gabi

Informier Dich doch erstmal gründlich, wofür der finale Rettungsschuss eigentlich dient und wann man diesen anwenden darf (Stichwort "Nothilfe", Problematik mit GG Art. 2 Abs. 2, etc.), bevor Du irgendwelche hanebüchenen Vergleiche mit der (durchaus diskutierbaren) Tötung des Terror-Scheichs Yassin anstellst.

Den Rest schenk ich mir.

flursn,

you see what happens when you judge someone by your own standards?

Woraus schließen Sie, Neutraler, daß ich nicht weiß, wofür der finale Rettungsschuß dient? Lassen Sie mich doch bitte teilhaben an Ihrem unendlichen gründlichen Wissen. Warum fällt es Ihnen eigentlich so schwer, hier sachlich zu diskutieren? Was ist los mit Ihnen? Was ärgert Sie so, daß Sie derartige Postings schreiben. Wenn Sie meinen, daß ich irre, warum zeigen Sie nicht den angeblichen Irrtum auf, statt platt zu schreiben, informiere dich mal. Sie wissen gar nicht, mit wem Sie hier korrespondieren und meinen, sich über mich erheben zu müssen. Warum? Kommen wir nicht hier zusammen, um uns auszutauschen? Und wenn Sie so viel wissen und zu geben haben, sollten Sie uns Dummen nichts davon abgeben?

@Gabi

Unsachlich? Ich gab Ihnen doch sogar einschlägige sachliche Stichworte, um sich weiter mit dem Thema auseinandersetzen zu können. Und das Wort "dumm" - fiel das nicht schon zuvor von Ihnen in meine Richtung? (nicht, daß ich nachtragend wäre)

Ein gewisser arroganter Tonfall - den auch ich hier verwende - scheint ja von den Machern dieses Blogs durchaus gewollt zu sein, liest man die häufig bissigen Kommentare in den Hauptartikeln. Man passt sich doch immer ein wenig dem Grundtonfall des jeweiligen Hauptblogs an - "When you're in Rome, ...." *achselzuck*

Wie schon eingangs gesagt: Die Ausrichtung hier scheint durch Tonfall und Auswahl eher Spaltend denn Versöhnend zu sein. just my 2 cents.

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