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I know this is a long post, but I feel strongly about this issue and unlike many in the US who are angered at the prospect of the widespread comparison of the US to Nazi Germany or Bush to Hitler I rather have become extremely depressed as a result of these comparisons. Can these reckless comparisons be explained simply as a result of German guilt? Perhaps Germans have forgotten their history. How can Bush, however flawed one might think he is, ever be compaired to a man that would utter these words, not in 1936 but 1922:

"Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews. As soon as I have the power to do so, I will have gallows built in rows - at the Marienplatz in Munich, for example - as many as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be hanged indiscriminately, and they will remain hanging until they stink; they will hang there as long as the principles of hygiene permit. As soon as they have been untied, the next batch will be strung up, and so on down the line, until the last Jew in Munich has been exterminated. Other cities will follow suit, precisely in this fashion, until all Germany has been completely cleansed of Jews. "

How is it that anyone could compare the US, however flawed one may think its policies in the Balkins, Afganistan or Iraq, to Nazi Germany. Let us recount just one day in Nazi Germany as recounted by survivors.

"At Babi Yar the Jews of Kiev were informed by placards posted around the city by Ukrainian militia for Jews to assemble at 8:00 a.m. on September 29, 1941, at a cemetery near a railroad siding for "resettlement." They were told to bring with them food, warm clothing, documents, money, and valuables. (Dawidowicz, What, 103-4). The scene was described by one officer at his trial in 1967. He stated "It was like a mass migration . . . the Jews sang religious songs on the way." At the railroad siding their food and belongings were taken from them and:

Then the Germans began shoving the Jews into new, narrower lines. They moved very slowly. After a long walk, they came to a passageway formed by German soldiers with truncheons and police dogs. The Jews were whipped through. The dogs went at those who fell but the pressure of the surging lines behind was irresistible, and the weak and injured were trod underfoot. "

"Bruised and bloodied, numbed by the incomprehensibility of their fate, the Jews emerged onto a grassy clearing. They had arrived at Babi Yar; ahead of them lay the ravine. The ground was strewn with clothing. Ukrainian militiamen, supervised by Germans, ordered the Jews to undress. Those who balked, who resisted, were assaulted, their clothes ripped off. Naked bleeding people were everywhere. Screams and hysterical laughter filled the air."

"After this brutal processing, the victims were lined up at edge of the ravine and gunned down by teams of machine gunners. By the time they were finished on Spetember 30, 1941, 33,700 people had been killed."

Please, someone give Michael Moore a history book.


Niklaus, get thee over to David's thread on american/German culture. You will feel better. I think.

In fairness to Moore, he's playing US politics in the old tradition, the tradition of boxing matches in the halls of Congress, political caricatures of Presidents on top of piles of skulls (I saw such a caricature of Andrew Jackson and many worse besides), and scurrilous accusations that have no foundation in reality. He is a throwback to the classic yellow press style and should be treated as such.

It's a pity that so many germans do not seem to do so. The attitude will not serve them well.

TM Lutas,

"In fairness to Moore, he's playing US politics in the old tradition"

While i respect your fairness. Moore playing it up just like he is an elected U.S. Official talking to his constituency except "he's only a film director in a foreign nation", is a major slap in the face to his german admirer's, and a cheap backstab at the U.S. in general and us americans in particular. Many of them might realize when it's too late that he milked ($$$)them for what it's worth. Or as i understand it " All a swindler has to do is show up, and the fools will flock to him and pay too hear him speak about a subject he has not a clue about. And they may eventually realize they were swindled by some cheap demagogue."
Hence... if many germans just quit showing up to his pandering diatribes, they would soon realize how much he likes them by not darkening their doorsteps again.
But then again what do i know, he won an oscar for a documentary "Bowling for Columbine" that he himself admitted was full lies! Funny that...

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