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So they are finally getting it, good for them. With telly, it's a different story over here. AFAIR, there hasn't been anything about the Iraq war on the German main evening news for a few weeks now. So things must be going well in Iraq right now.

Ray:
"Premature" is certainly incorrect. The popular leftist groupthink has been way out of line for a long time. Even before the surge this war has been no disaster--not in terms of dictators killed, terrorists killed (far from our shores), and in terms of what Islamic terror would have been had we continued our Clintonesque, Cartereque, policies towards them.

And though it sounds heartless to say so, and certainly not PC, our troop losses have been small by any standards (and less than auto accidents, murders,...).

And history will show that Bush is far from being the 'moron' Europeans and American leftists call him now automatically. This has been a difficult asymmetric war and no more mistakes have been made than in previous wars. Even the great Lincoln was called a fool, by the ever-wise popular press of his day, far into the civil war, until Grant and Sherman saved his bacon)

Sagredo, the war that I was in cost 58,000 lives and *was* mismanaged. This war is, by any standards available, a wonder to behold. The only mismanagement in this war is the management of the politics of the opposition party and media. In this respect I speak of the US media which evidently lags the German media at the moment.

You, as usual, speak the truth.

"The US military is more successful in Iraq than the world wants to believe."

I don't want to spoil your enthusiasm about this piece, but I don't even want to think about the kind of letters to the editor which will certainly follow up on that one. And they will all think they are writing those for the better of the world, in a fight against the Great Satan.
Well, that's what you get from years-long propaganda. The media is just the oil - the really frightening thing is the fire.

And on a fun note: Those who put the oil into the fire might find out that they are not safe from it either and get frightened as well. Poor Spiegel. Oder: Die Geister, die ich rief...

This is quite a change. Does it mean that Baghdad Bob is no longer employed at der Spiegel?

if they admit that we've gotten batter at it (which we have) and that we did it all without any of their help (which we have) then they have to admit that we will probably be coming after their asses soon and they don't want to admit that either.
invested in defeat they call it..
really comes down to wether or not the manginas come out to vote and can overcome the hillarys and other life partners to win. iraq sure isnt helping itself by walking away from their stupid parliament.
but then again, when nothing happens while theyre out, what are they going to be able to whine about...
just like in israel, the arabs are being routed by modern warfare. they can dig tunnels and blow up kids in schools, but only a spoiled rich kids liberal would think they could ever win anything but a ghetto.

Nothing is more important to the international left and their propaganda outlets like Spiegel than maintaining and expanding their political power. After years of providing moral support and encouragement to some of the most barbaric thugs this planet has ever seen in the hope that an American loss would enhance the credibility of the left, I suspect they are doing one of two things. Either they now see that they have been on the losing side all along and are preparing to switch sides in an effort to claim that they were with the Americans all along and that their criticism was well meant as they only wanted to help us maintain the moral high ground, or, they are hoping for a Democratic takeover of the White House in 2008 and are carefully demonstrating their willingness to offer propaganda support to a more "cooperative" White House. Watch for them to hedge their bets with articles going both ways for a while.

I am not really too surprised at this turn of events with D.S. The same is occurring with the leftist media in the US. A recent New York Times editorial (read: notoriously liberal, anti-Iraq, etc.) said that the "surge" is actually working - leaving the rabidly liberal base apopletic and questioning the sanity of the authors of this editorial. (PS: the authors are also big libs).

I don't know what to attribute this change in tone to. Perhaps they cannot continue to deny what is actually occurring and don't want to appear to be so totally misinformed.

Suzanne, on the American side it might be the circulation figures. The advertising is on the tank for the US rags. It's time to go into survival mode.

There's only one thing to say: "Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh, heh, heh, heh, heh, ... "

And so on.
:D

SPON's double back flip is truly amazing. I didn't know whether to spit or swallow when I read the article. Its conclusions are 180 degrees out of synch with the entire corpus of SPON propaganda on the war to date. And why? Go figure! Instapundit quotes Victor Davis Hanson, and has some interesting thoughts of his own:

"VICTOR DAVIS HANSON ON POLITICS:

'Yet the universal human desire to be associated in the here and now with the assumed winning side — and to shun perceived defeat — trumps them all. Throughout this war, that natural urge explains most of the volatile and shifting views of our politicians, pundits and media as they scramble to readjust to the up-and-down daily news from Iraq.

'And so it is with the latest positioning about the surge that to a variety of observers seems successful — at least for now.'

"A lot of people do seem kind of fickle that way. Related thoughts here: "To paraphrase John Kerry: Who wants to be the last person calling for the U.S. to surrender a war the Army is winning? Apparently not Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Barack Obama or the New York Times, which just 5 weeks ago said genocide was better than having U.S. troops keep the peace in Iraq."

And still more here."

I'm not nearly as sanguine about the supposed sudden turn-around in the war, but, hey, what do I know? I can see the rats leaving the sinking ship as well as anyone.

BTW, check this out. From the Washington Post:

"Pursuing a "West Bank first" policy -- where Britain and others deal with the West Bank, which is run by the more secular Fatah group, and isolate the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip -- will further jeopardize peace, the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee said in a report on the Middle East.

"'The government should urgently consider ways of engaging politically with moderate elements within Hamas,' the all-party group of lawmakers said."

and, today on SPON:

"Disagreements in the grand coalition about Afghanistan strategy: CDU foreign affairs experts (Unions-Außenpolitiker) distance themselves from government spokesman Steg. He has demanded that moderate Taliban be included in the process of national reconciliation, just as SPD chief Beck did before him."

Great moonbats certainly do think alike, don't they? Now let's do a little thought experiment. Imagine these same moonbats suggesting that moderate Nazis be included in the process of national reconciliation in Germany following World War II. Brain starting to smoke yet?

If anybody you is on drugs then it is you and CNN. Ullrich Fichtner is gettng the facts right. If you read the article then you know that the US Army followed Ullrich Fichtner around where he wanted to go. He said "Lets go there" and the US Army guys followed him - not vice versa. So this is hard for all the people of CNN and their friends, I know, but "Der Spiegel" for once got the facts right - and I was very happy to read that in German and not only in the Blogs of Michael Yon, John Burns and Michael J. Totten.

I'm going to coin a phrase and call article this a "Hertoghe moment".

I think Der Spiegel follows the US dinosaur media, which is all about helping the Democrats win elections. One year ago, when Der Spiegel was saying the war is lost, it was two months before the 2006 elections. Now, that the Democrats are in power, the surge is working and the American public is coming around to support the successful policy. (Success has a thousand fathers, failure is an orphan.)

Americans want to win the war and come home. Losing the war is not an option, it would be a bloody disaster, not only for the US, Iraq, but for the entire Muslim world, because it would give a huge boost to the jihadis. And jihadis mostly murder fellow Muslims.

So, following the lead of the NY Times and the polls, the Dem's are trying to back down off the edge of the cliff. The NY Times has even said the Dem's will stay in Iraq for years and years. So, my theory, is that Der Spiegel is following the game plan to help the Dem's win elections. Power ueber alles.

Of course, they still couldn't resist getting in the comments about making up Saddam's involvement in 9/11.

The article Doug has referred us to,

http://www.iht.com/articles/2003/12/29/hert_ed3_.php

which he labels as producing the "Hertoghe Moment" is a Must Read for those who read DMK. Is there any reason why everything it says about the French media is not also true of the German?

" In Germany, an independent media watchdog group, Medien Tenor, has produced a report, to be released next month, on the performance of television reporting of the conflict in Germany, Britain, the United States and other countries. It focuses notably on Germany's two main state-financed channels, finding that the United States was treated negatively.

A draft of the report, underwritten in part by the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, says of the state networks: "After assuming a position of sharp criticism of American military actions, abandoned only after their increasing success, and after fixating on the Iraqis as suffering victims, they created a representation of the war in line with the position" of the German government. It continues, "Critical questions concerning the extent to which the unrelenting German position contributed to the escalation of the conflict were thus kept from public scrutiny."

Criticism by Iraqis and Americans of the war "dominated the coverage" of the ZDF state channel's main newscasts, the group said. America's decision to go to war, it said, was juxtaposed by German television, "with the supposedly unanimous opposition of the rest of the world."

Perhaps DMK can take some of the credit for some of the re-assessment that seems to be happenning? It cannot all be due to the Surge.

The quickest conversation killer to those who say "Iraq is a dismal failure," has always been to ask them by what measurement consider Iraq a failure?

And no, spewing non-factual, emotional platitudes doesn't count or explain it. (That sort of verbal dribbling down your chin only passes for an "opinion" at the dailyKos.)

Tyranno

PS: But...look how well emotional nonsense has carried the narrative, or has been allowed to carry the narrative. The ubiquitous "progressive" medias choose or lose a narrative in accordance with their own personal or Party opinions.

"To ask by what measurement they consider Iraq a failure?"

ie...compared to what other conflict in U.S. history?

Sorry, my dyslexia . . . or alzheimers.

Tyranno

SPON is just following the lead of the US MSM. For the last few weeks the approach of the US MSM has been changing to start to prepare for a MILITARY victory in Iraq. They are going to say that the war has been longer than it should have been, and the surge proves that. If President and Donald Rumsfield listened to the Dems and sent enough troops this thing could have been over a long time ago. In other words, the MSM is setting up a big "We told you so" moment for the Dems.
They will also start pointing out that yes the Military is finally winning after so many mistakes by the President, but POLITICALLY Iraq is a dismal failure. Of course that is also the Presidents fault.
Remember, these people in the MSM worldwide are partners with the LIBS/DEM/Commie Pinkos all over the world. They will never do anything that does not support their goal of Socialism all over the world, which is just a cover for their unbriddled lust for power.

@Sagredo

"...until Grant and Sherman saved his bacon)"

Ohio boys deliver.

@Mike H.

"The only mismanagement in this war is the management of the politics of the opposition party and media."

Word up. Amazing how much truth runs against belief.

@wc, re: " In other words, the MSM is setting up a big "We told you so" moment for the Dems."

I agree that this is what's happening. Happily, there are millions and millions of Americans with a memory span longer than the two weeks the MSM thinks we have ;).


This same meme can be found in the US press. And Rush is the only one who is reading it correctly. The liberal media has realized that there is no way that there won't be troops in Iraq during the 2008 election. So they are starting to tamp down the anti-war fervor so that the Dems can tack back to the center when the general election approaches. As the Petraeus report draws near, the media is starting to give the Dems cover. Nice to have friends with printing presses. Not quite enough though, these days.

Hanson is, of course, right. But, another gentleman said much the same thing over 5 years ago:

"...when people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature, they will like the strong horse."

DT;
So, OBL is a "gentleman" now?
Anyhooo, it is certainly clear now with the US forces kicking AQI and JAM butt all over Iraq, and the Brits hunkered down preparing to "declare victory" and slink home, who's the strong horse.

What the MSM and DS are seeing is, IMO, the result of Petraeus out-thinking everyone else, and staying several steps ahead. The effect on his subordinates and the whole in-theater military seems dramatic, to me. They virtually ooze confidence in the Mind of Petraeus. The Anbarians call him Malik Daoud, or King David.

In a few decades, there will be statues of him in Baghdad and Washington.

But only if the American people don't stop supporting the mission too early.

Check out SPON and Stern this morning. The big news is there was a gangland style killing of five people in Duisburg, Germany. The five people were shot to death in gun-free Germany. The spin is now that it is a Mafia killing....Italians don't count.

This news is over 48 hours old. I came across it reading the Times on Line two days ago. Yet it is just now being reported in Germany by the MSM.

It is funny: They had real time reporting of Carl Rove's resignation and the 175 casualties in Northern Iraq. But if something happens in Germany, it is delayed until there is a spin. (Germans not killing Germans...Foreigners killing each other on German soil)

"This news is over 48 hours old. I came across it reading the Times on Line two days ago. Yet it is just now being reported in Germany by the MSM. {SNIP} But if something happens in Germany, it is delayed until there is a spin"

This is simply not true.

Six (not five) dead bodies were found sometime after 2 AM. It was on the radio news while I took my breakfast at 6 AM, and this was obviously not the first time they reported it ("Unfolding story in Duisburg" IIRC). At this time, the ethnic background of the victims had not yet been determined.

Sorry, no conspiracy.

"The five people were shot to death in gun-free Germany. The spin is now that it is a Mafia killing... Italians don't count. {SNIP} (Germans not killing Germans...Foreigners killing each other on German soil)"

I just watched the Tagesschau on TV, and their reporting fails to comply with your conspiracy theories:

http://www.tagesschau.de/video/0,1315,OID7296860_RES_BAB,00.html

The Duisburg PD is investigating "into all directions". The Italians are already blaming it on organized crime, not the Germans.

Oh, and Germany is not gun free. Several colleagues are gun-owners. I could likely qualify for a license, if I cared.

Sounds like someone in Germany has read The Little Red Hen.

@ George M

For once, Tropby is right. The crime happened in the early morning and the news has been reported almost immediately. You are correct in one point though: So far, I haven't heard or read our MSM ask the question how this could ever happen despite our strict gun laws.

I'm also a little bit disappointed to see they talk about Italians being the probable perpetrators. Thought it was discriminating and not (politically) correct to name the origin of criminals. Could there be a reason why that rule doesn't apply in this case? Let me think... No, I can't figure it out.

(sarcasm off)

Trophy:

"Sorry, no conspiracy"

I read the initial story last night on the London Times website on their European page. That would have been 5am this morning, your time. Last night, I did not read the story on any of the German news magazine web sites to include Focus. The Spon and Stern articles did not appear until this morning, our time: or about noon your time.

By the time it appeared, the story was already "vetted" and had any disclaimer that the victims were Germans. This morning's story also seemed to know that the killings were linked to the Mafia.

Why didn't Spon or Stern post an "Eilreport" like it did in this news cycle about Bush's Brain, Karl Rove resigning or the 175 people killed in by Al Quida in the Kurdish province of Iraq.

Also note that I am not the first person to observe this. Tyrano had a similar observation in the Letter from Austria post. He wrote that a German policeman told him that the crime statistics do not reflect all crime in Germany.

Tyrano also observed that the car burnings in France were also down played by the French media. Of course even we "dumme Amis" on this side of the Atlantic know of the despicable reporting of the European heat wave of 2001, where 35,000 Europeans perished, many of them elderly who were neglected because the healthcare system was "en vacance." I think that this is a European phenomenon to deny the truth of what is going on in their own back yard, while expressing Schadenfreude when a tragedy happens on this side of the Atlantic.

Sounds like al Qaeda was worried about the direction the war was taking, too, so they blew up some more children in Kurdistan. That's what counts as a "victory" for them. Time gleefully collaborates with the terrorists, as usual, and the rest of the MSM will probably be singing the same tune soon. As we've seen, they've already hedged their bets. No need to overdo it.

Trophy and Mir:

Six victims gunned down by machine gun fire! Do you realize that this is exactly the number of people and the method of execution that Al Capone's gang became internationally notorious for during the Saint Valentine's day massacre?

Where are the headlines! Kaos auf die deutschen Strassen! Mehr amerikanischen Verhaeltnisse! Auch du Lieber!

@ George M

I don't know if the internet editors of our MSM outlets work at 2 am in the morning, but the crime was the first subject in the news since 6 am - at least until the news came in about 3 German policemen murdered by cowardly barbarians in Afghanistan. I have no interest in defending our MSM, but these are the facts. I do agree that we would probably see more hysterical reporting and chatter about "amerikanische Verhältnisse" had this murder happened in the US.

@Mir--re: " at least until the news came in about 3 German policemen murdered by cowardly barbarians in Afghanistan."

Oh, my gosh. That's awful. I hadn't heard anything about this. Keep us up to date on what's happening with that. I feel very sad about it :(.

Well, it's just an intermezzo and not a change of policies. Call it an alibi report to appease the Conservatives. However, 'Der Spiegel' is and will be a die-hard left-wing media outlet. That's the memo.

Dusburg Revisited.

It is now 72 hours since the Mafia committed a gangland slaying in Duisburg Germany. This slaying is the exact scope of the infamous St. Valentine’s Day Massacre of the early thirties, which propelled Al Capone and Chicago on to the international seen. Six victims were mowed down with machine gun fire.

Spiegel and Focus are now infatuated with Wall Street, which now has top billing. They both have a follow-on article on the Duisburg Massacre on or about the fourth column. On the English site, Spiegel has an article lamenting why New Orleans is still at risk after 1 billion dollars in repairs. Stern has absolutely no articles referencing Duisburg.

Granted the Duisburg Massacre is not the most deadly crime ever committed in modern Germany. 13 students and a teacher were mowed down in a school shooting in Erfurt. Armin Miewes ate his lover in Rothenburg, Germany. And Mohamed Atta conspired under the nose of the Hamburg Technical School to kill 100, 000 people in New York, which he was partially successful in doing. However, one would get the impression that nothing ever happens in Germany. There is never any bad news. No articles on whether not the Rhine or the Ruhr is susceptible to flooding. No follow up on whether German schools are safe. There is no questioning how somebody could smuggle a machine gun into Germany to commit a gangland execution.

Is it my perception that Germans are only interested in other peoples problems and sorrows, but do not dwell or discuss their own?

@ goerge m

stern articles from aug. 15
http://www.stern.de/politik/panorama/595307.html
http://www.stern.de/politik/deutschland/595316.html
http://www.stern.de/politik/panorama/595329.html
http://www.stern.de/video/595354.html
http://www.stern.de/video/595355.html
http://www.stern.de/politik/deutschland/595386.html
http://www.stern.de/politik/panorama/595391.html

stern articles from aug. 16
http://www.stern.de/politik/panorama/595396.html
http://www.stern.de/politik/panorama/595421.html
http://www.stern.de/politik/deutschland/595467.html
http://www.stern.de/video/595469.html

stern articles from aug. 17
http://www.stern.de/politik/panorama/595477.html
http://www.stern.de/politik/panorama/595525.html

Anti-Americanism at its very worst:

"Da gibt es zum Beispiel den Fall eines Kindes mit Namen Chad, also einen Jungen mit weniger as 14 Jahren, bei dem eine Schwulenzeitschrift gefunden wurde. Er kam in eine geschlossene Anstalt zur „Therapie“. Man befestigte Erektionsmessgeräte an seinem Penis. Dann zeigte man ihm Bilder von nackten Männern. Bekam er eine Erektion, wurde er mit Elektroschocks gefoltert. Nach Angaben einer Homosexuellen-organisation werden im Moment etwa 50 000 Jugendlich jährlich in solche sexuellen Folterstationen eingeweisen".

http://oraclesyndicate.twoday.net/stories/4146485

I'm quite speechless about Germany...

Lars,

I am talking about today, August 17, 2007. The articles that you found are not on Stern's home page. A reader must make two mouse clicks before he can find those two articles. They are buried in panorama/deutschland.

Lars,

P.S. Many of those articles that you reference are repeats. Aparently Stern gives them a new htlm number every news cycle.

@Peacer

"I'm quite speechless about Germany..."

The scariest thing isn't even the anti-Americanism. It's the kind of sexual phantasies these people get off on.

@ george

well, it's more than two days since this massmurder happened. and as tragic and sad as it may be, do you really expect to see a frontline article about an incident that happened several days ago. "it's old news", so to speak. these kind of stories mostly survive only if school children are involved (erfurt, littleton,...).
if you're looking for news, better try newspapers (faz, welt, sueddeutsche, zeit, frankf. rundschau, taz,...) instead of magazines like stern, spiegel or focus.

Lars,

How can an execution style massacre on German soil be considered old news? This execution, albite, presumably by Italians, is of the same scope as the infamous St. Valentine's Day massacre perpetrated by Al Capone 75 years ago.

The New Orleans flood, which is a story that is more than one year old, is still making front line stories in the Spiegel. The nexus seems to be: if it happened in the U.S., we'll run it until we beat a dead horse to death. But if it is some disaster that happens in Germany, then we'll run it 48 hours.

@ george

"How can an execution style massacre on German soil be considered old news?"
it's old news, 'cause it happened several days ago. people are murdered in germany on a daily basis. such an incident, while quite uncommon in this country, happens every now and then - i remember a quite similar murder in front of a chinese restaurant a few years ago. that the italian mafia is operating in germany is known for years and that the recent clan-conflicts in italy are now spreading to germany is not that unusual.

"This execution, albite, presumably by Italians, is of the same scope as the infamous St. Valentine's Day massacre perpetrated by Al Capone 75 years ago."
is it really of the same scope? al capone is probably the world's most notorious gangster. the valentine's day massacre was one of the main reasons the authorities finally dedicated their full attention to capone's criminal activities.
totally wrong analogy, imo.

"The New Orleans flood, which is a story that is more than one year old, is still making front line stories in the Spiegel. The nexus seems to be: if it happened in the U.S., we'll run it until we beat a dead horse to death. But if it is some disaster that happens in Germany, then we'll run it 48 hours."
is it still making the front line?
excuse my ingnorance, but i have never bought a single spiegel issue and i usually don't read their homepage.

Lars,

Here is Wikepedia's description of the St Valentine's Day Massacre:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Valentine's_Day_Massacre

The killings were planned by Al Capone personally. His objective was to eliminate his competition: George "Bugs Moran."

Five of Capone's gang entered into Moran's warehouse, where he stored his bootleged Whiskey from Canada. Three of the killer's were disguised as policeman. Six of Moran's gang were lined up against the wall and liquidated with machinegun fire.

What was the difference between this execution and Duisburg?

In each instance, there were six victims, belonging to a rival faction of the organized crime, liquidated by machinegun fire. If anything, Duisburg is more infamous because the executions happened in or near a pizza parlor: a pulbic place.

Spiegel had an article on the English site criticizing the rebuilding effort in New Orleans, which they pulled 48 hours ago. Maybe they read my post....lol.

george,

as i already tried to point out, the velentine's day massacre was pretty much the turning point of capone's "career". the families involved in this recent massacre in duisburg are hardly known, even in southern italy. the people involved in it are simply not famous enough to make a good story out of it, let alone a movie.
celebrity factor: zero.

@Helian

I've tried to contact the author of this article -- so far, no response whatsoever, which was fairly predictable. It's hardly about facts; it's about ideological preferences and anti-American resentments.

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