« Iranian Visitor #3,046,674 | Main | An Italian Perspective on Anti-Americanism »

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d83451c42969e200d83451c43669e2

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Predictable Media Reaction to Virginia Tech Tragedy: Gun Control, Hate-America and Bush Bashing:

» MASSACRE: Shooting Rampage at Virginia Tech -- 32 People Killed -- Gunman Identified from Pajamas Media
[Latest News on Top] German media reacts. Predictably. (Davids Medienkritik) ID confirmed @ VA Tech's website. Gunman identified: Seung Hui Cho, a permanent resident of the United States, a Korean national and a Virginia Tech student has been identifi... [Read More]

» Can "responsible journalism" become irresponsible? from Classical Values
My power finally came back on over an hour ago. I'm tempted to exclaim "Hallelujah!" And what the hell? I will say "Hallelujah!" But you have to be careful with religious exclamations these days. Saying "Allahu Akbar" might be taken... [Read More]

» AFTERMATH from Pajamas Media
Some of the Slain Photo galleries and bios of the victims can be found HERE and HERE. [Latest News on Top] [Previous Coverage HERE] "You murdered my father and covered it up!... Just like what the government has done... [Read More]

Comments

The first sentence of the first response: "Natürlich hat der Präsident nicht Recht." That just about sums it up, yes?

Well, this isn't the comments on the news article about the shooting yesterday - the thread is called "Stricter gun laws after shooting?", which is probably discussion worthy since the president DID make a statement yesterday along the lines of "people have a right to bear arms, but they must obey the law".

And while the first few comments were predictable, there were other comments that rightfully pointed out the uselessness of gun control as a method to completely stop shootings.

I don't agree that gun control is the answer, but I DO agree that we (in the USA) somewhere have a problem with gun abuse.

In any case, I strongly suggest you change the wording of this blog entry - I don't think this is any case "Spiegel Online exploiting a tragedy to attack President Bush ..." - perhaps they could have waited a bit to discuss it, but the official question asked in the thread was not in any way an "attack".

It's an online forum for goodness sake! Do you hold them accountable for every comment left on one discussion thread? There are plenty of ridiculously anti-american things that they say officially, don't sound childish by complaining about what their users say too :)

Bush?! I didn't know that Bush can dispense with the constitutional amendments whenever he feels like it. These German reporters need a constitutional law lesson.

Did they ask if Bill Clinton was at fault when various school shootings occurred during his administration?

They don't even know the facts of whether or not this maniac bought the guns legally or not.

there are a lot of singular events that make up a picture - although the president is hardly responsible, every politician who panders to the NRA crowd is complicit in twisting the constitution to make it the "right" of every american to own automatic weapons and handguns. we need to tear up the 2nd amendment immediately. i will admit that these things happen in other countries, but not nearly as often. if this POS did not have two semi-automatic handguns it is highly unlikely 33 people would have lost their lives.

another twist - the killer was not american. he was chinese on a student visa, at least according to AP.

by the way, if you don't want to be compelled to go to germany and do a little amoklaufing yourself, i suggest you all refrain from reading readers' comments on stern and spiegel.

@ Kennon,

Let's not be profoundly naive here. They are so obviously asking a question they already know the answer to when it comes to their readers. The way they asked it was essentially: President Bush supports a policy we know that 99% of our readers strongly disagree with - what do our readers think of that? This is another Orwellian moment for them to shout down en masse the evil ideological enemy Bush. The comments that have resulted are entirely predictable and sadly inhuman. This is not a debate forum - it is a contest to see who can stand up on his hind legs and bark the most loudly in righteous indignation.

@jwtkac

"...the killer was not american. he was chinese on a student visa, at least according to AP"

Yeah, Spiegel is already on that one (http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,477700,00.html). There was apparently a few people who jumped to conclusions (not that Spiegel would ever do that) based on initial reports of the shooter's ethnicity, so now we are all racists too.

Get it? We allow others to come to our country to study and work, one of them mows down a bunch of innocent people, and WE are a bunch of gun-toting racists. Goebbels must be proud.

Spiegel acts like we are loons because we continue to favor gun ownership despite such incidents. But they never mention that most Americans continue to support legal immigration despite incidents like this and 9/11. Our tolerance (not to mention our desire for liberty) is in truth far superior to that of Spiegel's deluded readership. That's what really drives them crazy.

If you follow my link to the Spiegel article, notice the picture of the kid with all the guns there. Normally Spiegel would mock this individual as a gun-crazy American. Now, of course, he is a victim of American racism.

@ all,

Actually - the killer was South Korean - not American or Chinese.

This is going to break some hearts in the SPON editorial offices. They just announced the killer was from Korea (you know, another one of those countries where the mass media promotes hatred of the US, just like in Germany.) This won't fit the agenda at all. A local Virginia redneck would have been so much better.

Meanwhile, SPON "educates" the masses with comments like, "Viele Waffenfreunde glauben, das Massaker hätte verhindert werden können - wenn alle Studenten eine Pistole gehabt hätten." ("Many weapons buffs believe that a massacre could have been prevented - if only all the students had had pistols.") That's the American "reality" that most Germans accept as a matter of faith. SPON hasn't bothered to inform them that the NYT, WaPo, LAT, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, etc., etc., are all running stories and providing pulpits for talking heads that are overwhelmingly in favor of tightening the gun laws.

As RayD said, Spiegel didn't ask that particular question out of curiosity. To make this assumption would mean to ignore the publication's long history of anti-Americanism. I would say that Spiegel's main "strength" is their misrepresentation of the American way of life and American policies (regardless of the Administration).

The Spiegel people know that it's a bit too early to start the Schadenfreude dance and shed crocodile tears, and that it's also not possible to somehow connect Bush with this tragedy. Because of this, they do the next best thing: they raise the "right" question and their readership starts the moralizing contest. The readers get their daily fix and basically do Spiegel's job, while Spiegel can pretend their hands are clean.

Spiegel know their clientele very well; their customers don't need Spiegel articles anymore to work themselves up. All that's needed is an incendiary question at the right time and everything else will fall into place - the readers will fill in the blanks with religious fervor.

above comment is exactly right.

What a bunch of ghouls. How about you let us bury our dead before you start spitting on us?

The pro-gun control comments above illustrate the basic difference between many Americans and perhaps most Germans. Germans look to the State to solve their problems. Americans look to themselves, their family and their friends. When I belonged to a university sailing club in Seattle, a German student (to his credit, with disgust) told me that in Germany he couldn't sail a boat on a lake without getting permits for both sailing and for that particular lake. "What wimps," I thought, "no wonder they did Hitler's bidding with scarely a word of protest."

What these wimps are forgetting is that laws only work for people whose motivations to break them are slight, i.e. people like themselves. Drug laws are useless for addicts. Gun laws have no impact on criminals or those with a nasty, violent streak wanting out. They only work for people whose motivations for carrying a weapon are the more reasonable urge for self-protection.

Notice how often these gun rampages target places such as this university, where guns were banned on campus. If you're planning to kill people and end your life with a bang heard around the world like this guy, a gun law is no deterent, but the potential that the first person you encounter will shoot back and ruin your moment of glory is. However, if you're a decent and sensible college student who'd feel a bit safer using your concealed weapon permit, the possibility of getting expelled is a serious deterent. Hence all these near helpless victims working, playing or studying in these allegedly "safe" gun-free zones. And hence the rise in violent crime in the UK after its draconian gun control laws.

If you'd like a good illustration of how this motivation works, read an account of the shooting of Gandhi. India in 1948 had far more effective gun control than you'd ever be able to establish in an affluent modern democracy. The vast majority of the country's population could not have afforded one even if they wanted one. The conspirators planning to kill Gandhi had to go to enormous trouble, traveling all over India to locate a single gun in working condition. But that they did because their motivation was high enough.

Someone who wants to kill already has, by inexortable logic, more than enough motivation to defy gun laws. They are, we should never forget, already planning to defy far harsher laws against murder. If you want gun control to work, you'll need to mandate a 30-year sentence for mere gun possession and treat murder by any others means (knives, rocks and poison) as a minor infraction requiring only the payment of a small fine.

--Mike Perry, Seattle

I'm deeply saddened about the news of this horrible crime. I for one sometimes simply have to avoid German forums like the mentioned one. The heartless comments are simply too disgusting and shameful. How could it come to this?

wrong, perry. what we gun control wimps see is a FUCKLOAD of murders in our cities and on our fucking college campuses by people who've had an easy time picking up weapons that are good for one thing and one thing only.

do you think it's just a coincidence that the US has such high gun-homicide rates compared to countries where guns - especially automatic weapons and HANDGUNS, are legal? just coincidence, of course.

if these guns were illegal, yes, some people would still get their hands on them - for a time. but if they were illegal then manufacturers would stop making shitloads of them and they'd be much harder to get, and you could put people away for owning them. anti gun-control people are so detached from the realities of how these fucking things are used it makes me sick. why don't you go check the statistics on how many people die every year from accidental gunshot wounds and tell me everybody should own a gun.

the difference between this guy using a shotgun and using two semi-automatic pistols is quite a few lives, by the way.

"Die Opfer verdienen tiefstes Mitgefühl. Amerika, so sehr es heute über sich erschrickt, erntet, was es sät." Schreibt Uwe Schmitt in der WELT als letzten Satz zu seinem Beitrag "Der Killer tötete, ohne ein Wort zu sagen". Schamloser Schlußsatz, dämlicher Titel. Die WELT wird immer unerträglicher. Schade.

http://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article816007/Der_Killer_toetete_ohne_ein_Wort_zu_sagen.html

"Trauer und Mitgefühl nach dem Massaker an einer amerikanischen Hochschule. Das ist die spontane Empfindung. Doch bereits diese erste, urmenschliche Regung, eine Antwort noch ohne Fragen, wird getrübt durch das Verhalten des US-Präsidenten. George W. Bush nämlich ließ mit dem zweiten Reflex schon seinen Mitbürgern und der Welt mitteilen, dass jeder Amerikaner weiterhin das Recht haben müsse, eine Schusswaffe zu besitzen und zu tragen. Das heißt für den Texaner Prinzipientreue."

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/archiv/18.04.2007/3207903.asp


So schreibt es Peter von Becker im Tagesspiegel. Ich finde nichts dazu im Internet. Weiß jemand, was Bush gesagt hat. Hat er es überhaupt gesagt?

jwkac

Did you know that the manufacturer of the Glock was in Austria?
Austria, Belgium and Germany are manufacturers of most small arms ad sell them all over the world.

Do you even know why the American Constitution encourages armed citizenry?

Why do so many shootings occur in Germany, Great britain and other countries who have exremely tough Gun laws?
If a criminal wants a gun, he/she will get one, they won't be deterred by law since they don't obey the law in the first place.

I have never owned a firearm, however, I wouldn't restrict anyone having one for protection. Are you even aware what kind of background check is required in the USA in order to btain a weapon? Reading your rags the average German must think that you just walk into a store and uy one. That, of course would be incorrect.

jwkac

Did you know that the manufacturer of the Glock was in Austria?
Austria, Belgium and Germany are manufacturers of most small arms ad sell them all over the world.

Do you even know why the American Constitution encourages armed citizenry?

Why do so many shootings occur in Germany, Great britain and other countries who have exremely tough Gun laws?
If a criminal wants a gun, he/she will get one, they won't be deterred by law since they don't obey the law in the first place.

I have never owned a firearm, however, I wouldn't restrict anyone having one for protection. Are you even aware what kind of background check is required in the USA in order to btain a weapon? Reading your rags the average German must think that you just walk into a store and buy one. That, of course would be incorrect.

@Gabi

"Schamloser Schlußsatz, dämlicher Titel."

We just have to deal with it, Gabi. The professionally pious prigs have ye always with you. Just remember that there is a cosmic justice, and what goes around comes around. Professionally pious prigs also did their best to help the Communists to power in Russia. Stalin saw to it that almost every single one of them "reaped what they sowed."

@americanbychoice

"Why do so many shootings occur in Germany, Great britain and other countries who have exremely tough Gun laws?
If a criminal wants a gun, he/she will get one, they won't be deterred by law since they don't obey the law in the first place."

The fact is that one's chances of being murdered by someone with a firearm are very small in countries with tough gun laws, such as Germany and Great Britain, compared to the United States. If there were similarly tough gun laws in the US, I strongly suspect the number of people we lose to gun violence would sink as well. However, from the point of view of the America bashers who are now pontificating to that effect, one might well ask, "So what?"

After all, according to these very same people, America is an "incipient theocracy," where the government will be "like the Taliban," and is, even now, ruled by evil, exploiting, imperialist war mongers and our "democracy" is nothing but a fantasy of the deluded masses. One would think that, if they really believe their own cant, the last thing they would want the people to do is disarm. Would they really rip from our hands the one last hope we have of fighting back against the evil oppressors? Is life so dear and peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God!

Of course, there is one other possibility. Maybe these people don't really believe their own cant. Ya think?

Helian,
You may want to take a look at some interesting stats.
In States that have an official conceal/carry law, the number of violent crimes is startlingly lower than in States that have very strict Gun laws. i.e. Mass, NY. stc.
The right to be armed is called the second amendment and the purpose was to assist citizens to rise up against a Government that has overstepped it's bounds and power and has become tyrannical.
While I would love to see all citizens to be law abiding, have no wars anywhere in the world, sing coom-bay-a together, I am still a realist

@jwtkac

"there are a lot of singular events that make up a picture - although the president is hardly responsible, every politician who panders to the NRA crowd is complicit in twisting the constitution to make it the "right" of every american to own automatic weapons and handguns."

Spoken like a true emotional quack. If I were at you level, I could turn the arguement around and demand why did the liberal university policies restrict students from exercising the constitutional right which allowed them to be slaughtered like lambs from a lone gumen? The blood-libel can easily be reversed.

"we need to tear up the 2nd amendment immediately."

Why stop there? The US constitution is obvioulsly there to be altered at your whims.

"why don't you go check the statistics on how many people die every year from accidental gunshot wounds and tell me everybody should own a gun."

Yes, why don't you do that. Everyone who is concerned with their and their loved ones safety, and who is responsible and of good judgment, should own a gun. If you are an emotional quack [ahem], a convicted felon or have history of mental illness-- than NO, you shouldn't be permitted. Excluding the latter just mentioned, the question of owning a gun or not is an INDIVIDUAL choice.

My condolences to the victims of the awful tragedy in VA, but it isn't a coincidence that a sick "lone gunmen" [media verbage] targets students (just like those Amish kids last year in PA, Columbine HS, Belsan, etc..). School grounds contain the softest targets with no protection.

@ Gabi

Du wirst die meisten Reden und Aussagen von Präsident Bush im Internet finden, in der Regel direkt auf der Seite des Weißen Hauses. Die von dir verlinkte Berichterstattung sowohl der Welt als aus des Tagesspiegel ist widerlich, aber nur typisch. Da gäbe es mal wieder einiges zu tun für DMK. :-(

I said earlier "that it's also not possible to somehow connect Bush with this tragedy". Tagesspiegel proved me wrong. My faith in the decency of journalists was obviously misplaced. I can only hope that not all journalists are so blinded by their ideology that they resort to cheap shots even in the face of such tragedy.

Greetings from Northern Virginia.

It's very bad here. Because so many of the Tech students went to high school together (and even grammer school) in the area, we have hundreds of families in shock. Kids from this area attending other institutions who have friends at Tech are just coming home to get some grounding.

And yeah, if every tenth person on the campus had been carrying, Cho would never had a chance to commit suicide.

The best item I've yet read concerning this travesty is ...

Michael Pakaluk
St. Augustine remarked that, just as a robber is a little tyrant, so a tyrant is a robber on a big scale. What holds of robbery holds also of murder. Before we begin to agree with critics who might point to crimes such as the Virginia Tech massacre, or Columbine, as a sign of some unusual sickness in American society, we should consider that the scene of a madman with power, killing others remorselessly out of malice and envy, as he descends to his own self-destruction, was played out on a very large scale in Germany, Cambodia, Russia, and other nations in the last century. That sort of evil, which seems to afflict human nature generally, has so far been manifested only in private action in our country — thanks to our laws and political institutions, and the character of our citizenry. And for that we should be grateful.

— Michael Pakaluk is a professor of philosophy at Clark University.


Germans, nor any other Europeans, will NEVER be able to snicker away their own guilt for their enormous crimes against Mankind.

So should Americans be modeling gun control after European bomb control?

Hey Bass-ackward! Your logic is as bankrupt as your ideology.

Disaffected people always find a way.

Germany isn't the only country that's been beyond the pale. There's Prodi in Italy who said this violence is 'as American as apple pie'. This from the womb of the Cosa Nostra.

And there's the President of South Korea who has pleaded for Americans not to engage in racist attacks against the South Korean community in America. Which somewhat belies the idea that if America were such a 'racist' society, why is the South Korean community here so large, so successful and so respected?

emotional quack? good one.

for your information, the 9mm glock (i could care less where it was manufactured) was purchased legally at a gun store in virginia.

and to insinuate that he somehow decided on the campus because it was a "soft target" where nobody would be armed - as opposed to the fact that he was a student there - is absolutely insane.

again, people who insist on the individual's "right" to carry any weapon they please are disgustingly detached from the reality of how these weapons end up being used.

and the constitution was written 200 years ago. the world - and firearms - have changed quite a bit since then.


_____


Gun Homicide (per 100,000)

Japan 0.03
Singapore 0.07
Taiwan 0.15
Kuwait 0.34
England/ Wales 0.07
Scotland 0.19
Netherlands 0.27
Spain 0.19
Ireland 0.30
Germany 0.21
Italy 1.16
Sweden 0.18
Denmark 0.23
Israel 0.72
New Zealand 0.22
Australia 0.56
Belgium 0.87
Canada 0.60
Norway 0.36
Austria 0.42
Northern Ireland 3.55
France 0.55
Switzerland 0.46
Finland 0.87
USA 6.24

Rates of firearms deaths for most countries are from:

United Nations Commission on Crime Prevention and Criminal Justice.
International study on firearm regulation (revised). Vienna: United
Nations, 1997.[tables 2.7, 6.2 and 7.1].

Rates for the Netherlands, Northern Ireland, Belgium, France,
Switzerland and Norway, who did not respond to the UN survey, are
from:

Killias M. International correlations between gun ownership and rates
of homicide and suicide. Can Med Assoc J 1993;148(10):1721-5. (who
cites 1989 figures from the UN interregional study.)

jwtkac,

How do you know that the gun was purchased in a gun store in Virinia?
The serial number was filed away.
Do ou have any idea what you have to go through to get a gun permit in the USA? Not only a week waiting period, but also an FBI check is involved. If you have a record (Vorbestraft) you can't get a gun legally.

At least, in Germany you won't have to worry about being gunned down, the country will be taken over without a fight.

P.S Germany, Austria and Belgium should really punish this country by stopping all exports of guns to this country and forgo the profits for humnities sake.
Fat chance.

People use what they have. An Asses jaw, stones, whatever. If they don't have access to guns, then gun deaths/murders would be low, wouldn't they? I have read that in the US, homicide rates tend to follow national origin. Africans and Latinos high, Swedes and Norwegians low. Irish do quite well and few Jews. (Penn and Teller on American's reason for the 2nd Ammedment. http://www.washingtonceasefire.com/content/view/47/45/)

Mortality Contact with knife, sword or dagger (per capita) by country

Source WHO

#1 Belize: 3.55766 deaths per 1 million peo
#2 Nicaragua: 2.92772 deaths per 1 million peo
#3 Uruguay: 1.75644 deaths per 1 million peo
#4 Mexico: 1.21465 deaths per 1 million peo
#5 Latvia: 0.873362 deaths per 1 million peo
#6 Slovenia: 0.497265 deaths per 1 million peo
#7 Kuwait: 0.428082 deaths per 1 million peo
#8 Georgia: 0.427625 deaths per 1 million peo
#9 Egypt: 0.361262 deaths per 1 million peo
#10 Panama: 0.318471 deaths per 1 million peo
#11 Paraguay: 0.31506 deaths per 1 million peo
#12 Hungary: 0.29979 deaths per 1 million peo
#13 Lithuania: 0.278009 deaths per 1 million peo
#14 Costa Rica: 0.249004 deaths per 1 million peo
#15 New Zealand: 0.247831 deaths per 1 million peo
#16 Ecuador: 0.224484 deaths per 1 million peo
#17 Moldova: 0.224467 deaths per 1 million peo
#18 Croatia: 0.22242 deaths per 1 million peo
#19 Sweden: 0.222173 deaths per 1 million peo
#20 Norway: 0.217723 deaths per 1 million peo
#21 Spain: 0.198309 deaths per 1 million peo
#22 Czech Republic: 0.195293 deaths per 1 million peo
#23 Brazil: 0.193431 deaths per 1 million peo
#24 Finland: 0.191461 deaths per 1 million peo
#25 Colombia: 0.186246 deaths per 1 million peo
#26 Slovakia: 0.184128 deaths per 1 million peo
#27 Denmark: 0.184094 deaths per 1 million peo
#28 Romania: 0.179131 deaths per 1 million peo
#29 Thailand: 0.171377 deaths per 1 million peo
#30 Venezuela: 0.157635 deaths per 1 million peo
#31 Australia: 0.149328 deaths per 1 million peo
#32 El Salvador: 0.149142 deaths per 1 million peo
#33 Peru: 0.143236 deaths per 1 million peo
#34 Chile: 0.125149 deaths per 1 million peo
#35 Netherlands: 0.0609496 deaths per 1 million peo
#36 Poland: 0.0518699 deaths per 1 million peo
#37 Japan: 0.031393 deaths per 1 million peo
#38 United States: 0.0304328 deaths per 1 million peo
#39 Argentina: 0.0252921 deaths per 1 million peo
#40 Germany: 0.0242627 deaths per 1 million peo
#41 Korea, South: 0.0205588 deaths per 1 million peo
Weighted average: 0.4 deaths per 1 million people.

I don't get to upset with European citizens and their comments on the US. Their opinions are based on a limited information, repeated often. So it's understandible. It is quite comfortible in a way. Kind of like a constant in the physical sciences.

The reaction of the German press to the shootings in Blacksburg provides ample reason for America to maintain a strong military. Implicit in their strong condemnation of American gun laws is an arrogant, anti-democratic desire to dictate all American laws. Indeed, much of what we consider anti-Americanism in the German/European press is simply a negative reaction by European elites to American sovereignty. This is just one more example. If America weren't militarily and economically strong, these closet fascists might feel empowered to take more aggressive measures toward imposing their phony Leftist fairyland on the rest of the world. Note in fact how often America's military and economic muscle is the source of their animosity.

What should we expect from our European "friends" in light of this trajedy carried out by a deranged individual? Sympathy for the victims and their families would seem reasonable and civilized to me. Instead, the savages in the German press dispute the right of Americans to defend themselves from such an attack. American gun laws are a matter for Americans to decide -- not for unbalanced Leftists with delusions of grandeur in the European press.

@ jwtkac

"for your information, the 9mm glock (i could care less where it was manufactured) was purchased legally at a gun store in virginia."

So what. Millions of Americans own one as well. I noticied more Americans died in car crashes today than being killed by 9mm bullets.

"and to insinuate that he somehow decided on the campus because it was a "soft target" where nobody would be armed - as opposed to the fact that he was a student there - is absolutely insane."

Its insane? Sorry sport, I have a degree in criminology with a few years in law enforcement to pick your statement apart. The "perp" didn't attack the local police department or the university "security office"...he went for the sheep.

"again, people who insist on the individual's "right" to carry any weapon they please are disgustingly detached from the reality of how these weapons end up being used."

I am an American combat veteran. I am well aware of the results.

"and the constitution was written 200 years ago. the world - and firearms - have changed quite a bit since then."

If the founding Fathers could see what the F15 or the B1 Bomber could do... I think the would allow the American public to own artillery pieces.

European governments are not 'of the people, for the people, by the people'. They have a distinct political class - very much apart from the people. The absolute last thing a political class wants is subjects who can possibly rise up and resist them. So no wonder they are horrified by the Second Amendment. And because the political class controls the media, incidents like the Virginia Tech shootings become political opportunity.

It's the same with the American left. It's all political opportunity. Nothing more. They hate that Second Amendment.

It's a fact that despots like gun control. Guns in the hands of private citizens makes despots nervous.

Here is an inconvenient fact for the leftists: Every Swiss household has a gun. It's the law.

"In some 2001 statistics,[3] it is noted that there are about 420,000 assault rifles stored at private homes, mostly SIG 550 types. Additionally, there are some 320,000 assault rifles and military pistols exempted from military service in private possession, all selective-fire weapons having been converted to semi-automatic operation only. In addition, there are several hundred thousand other semi-automatic small arms classified as carbines. The total number of firearms in private homes is estimated minimally at 1.2 million; more liberal estimates put the number at 3 million."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Seems to me that if guns were the problem, tiny Switzerland would be the murder capital of the world.

A diseased mind can always find a way to kill

Restrictive gun laws were of no help to the 16 Children murdered in Dunblane, Scotland.

Mr. von Becker changed the headline:

COLT ALS LEITKULTUR (statt Bush bringt kein Glück).

The bad thing is there is no Bush statement. Dana Perino answered a journalist's question

"As far as policy, the President believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed. And certainly bringing a gun into a school dormitory and shooting -- I don't want to say numbers because I know that they're still trying to figure out many people were wounded and possibly killed, but obviously that would be against the law and something that someone should be held accountable for.

Q Columbine, Amish school shooting, now this, and a whole host of other gun issues brought into schools -- that's not including guns on the streets and in many urban areas and rural areas. Does there need to be some more restrictions? Does there need to be gun control in this country?

MS. PERINO: The President -- as I said, April, if there are changes to the President's policy we will let you know. But we've had a consistent policy of ensuring that the Justice Department is enforcing all of the gun laws that we have on the books and making sure that they're prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/04/20070416-1.html

Das Denken in Feindbild-Kategorien war typisch für die gesamte Hitlerzeit. Das wollte doch die Nachkriegsgeneration besser machen. Und jetzt?! Wir wollten doch so freundlich und friedlich sein, stattdessen haben wir uns zu haßerfüllten Europäern entwickelt. Rhetorisches Mitgefühl, um dann gnadenlos zu verurteilen, ist gängige Reaktion auf diese Tragödie. Deutschland, wohin gehst du? Wohin führen uns solche Journalisten?

jwtkac posts the same ignorant drivel of the anti-gun crowd who can't be bothered with facts.

A perp determined to kill doesn't need to buy a gun. The two greatest terror actions in recent US history involved no guns - just box cutters and fertilizer (9/11 and Oklahoma City).

Furthermore, even if no one sold guns, there are still guns around. One can even make a pretty efficient "gun" at home.

jwtkac has not, of course, heard of the number of mass murders that didn't happen because someone was on site with a gun (no, not a cop). In fact, a few weeks ago, someone in a southern state started shooting on a city street. Since that jurisdiction permits citizens to carry weapons, two had them. They stopped the "mass-murder wannabe" before he killed anyone. Of course, that doesn't fit the mantra of people like jwtkac and such news is thusly ignored.

As to the pathetic German media - what explains that mass murder shooting they had a few years ago? Not enough gun control? Bush's fault there too?

@Suzanne

Erfurt? Einzelfall (single case) - it does not count.

americanbychoice: How do you know that the gun was purchased in a gun store in Virinia?
The serial number was filed away.
Do ou have any idea what you have to go through to get a gun permit in the USA? Not only a week waiting period, but also an FBI check is involved. If you have a record (Vorbestraft) you can't get a gun legally.

The gun was legally bought from a gun shop. And the laws vary by state; there is no permit or waiting period in Virginia (there is a one-gun-a-month law though). And there's no background check in Virginia if you buy guns from gun shows or second-hand.

Dan Kauffman: Restrictive gun laws were of no help to the 16 Children murdered in Dunblane, Scotland.
Since the Dunblane massacre the gun laws in the UK have been substantially tightened; it is now illegal in almost all circumstances to own a gun, and as a result in 2005/6 in England and Wales there were only 50 homicides involving firearms (compared with 12,000 in the US).

I don't understand why people are blaming the media for asking questions about the state of gun laws in the US. There obviously is a problem when someone can go into a shop, buy a gun on the same day and then go and kill 32 people. These are really important questions that desperately need to be answered to put a halt to the endless cycle of school and university shootings.

not that it makes a difference to all the gun nuts living on another planet, but the 9mm glock was purchased legally at a gun store in roanoake after a background check that lasted all of a few minutes.

the weapon has a clip that allows 15 rounds to be fired before reloading. this type of clip was illegal before the assault weapons ban expired in 2004. he could have, had the ban still been in place, fired off a maximum of 6 rounds before having to reload.

again, how many of you anti gun control people actually live in cities, or inner cities? how many of you know the difference between walking down a street at night in northeast d.c. or west philly and walking down a street at night in berlin or vienna or anywhere else in western europe?


another point: if you look broadly at the german media right now (and i love nothing more than calling out the german media) most of it is decidedly not concentrating on gun laws, at least any more than US media. check out stern, spiegel even, faz, sz, welt, usw. look. this was a horrible event. it may make a difference that i know so many people who went to VT and in fact attended another VA public school. it may make a difference that a friend of my little sister was lined up and yelled at before receiving one of 15 bullets this piece of shit could blow off before reloading.

forget it.

@jwtkac
had the ban still been in place, fired off a maximum of 6 rounds before having to reload.

IIRC, that is incorrect. The max was a 10-round clip. With a bit of training, you can reload in about 2 secs. 10-15 - for a good shooter, not too much difference.

But that ban was stupid. There were enough loopholes to fly an Airbus through it e.g., allowing a particular weapon w/a wooden stock but banning the same gun w/a black stock.

Sorry about your sister's friend, but would it have made a difference if it was one of 6 or one of 15? As she was unarmed, the answer is no.

At the beginning of the current term at Tech, (last August) a prisoner escaped from a local institution. Tech went into lockdown. A grad student wrote about it.
First, I never want to have my safety fully in the hands of anyone else, including the police.

Second, I considered bringing my gun with me to campus, but did not due to the obvious risk of losing my graduate career, which is ridiculous because had I been shot and killed, there would have been no graduate career for me anyway.

Third, and most important, I am trained and able to carry a concealed handgun almost anywhere in Virginia and other states that have reciprocity with Virginia, but cannot carry where I spend more time than anywhere else because, somehow, I become a threat to others when I cross from the town of Blacksburg onto Virginia Tech's campus.

Of all of the emotions and thoughts that were running through my head that morning, the most overwhelming one was of helplessness.

That feeling of helplessness has been difficult to reconcile because I knew I would have been safer with a proper means to defend myself.

I would also like to point out that when I mentioned to a professor that I would feel safer with my gun, this is what she said to me, "I would feel safer if you had your gun."

Unarmed and vulnerable

@jwtkac

"forget it."

It seemed to me you were making good sense, jwtkac, but then Suzanne, in the cool, rational style of one whose sole motive is to reveal the truth demonstrated that you are ignorant, that you write drivel, that you can't be bothered with the facts, that you recite mantras, and that you ignore news. I have your number, now jwtkac. If you dare to predict that the sun will come up tomorrow morning, and Suzanne pronounces your opinion drivel again, I will surely stock up on sleeping pills.

@Helian
you're pretty rude.

@Suzanne
true, you don't need guns to kill people, but I think this guy would have had a much tougher time trying to kill 33 people in a university with a baseball bat or a knife than with a Glock (which can shoot up to about 30 rounds without reloading, depending on the magazine).

You can't get a gun in the UK without a very good reason. 12,000 people a year die from firearms homicides in the US; in the UK it's 50. Is that a price worth paying?

Appalachian Law School Shooting
“Mikael and Tracy were prepared to do something quite different: Both immediately ran to their cars and got their guns. Mikael had to run about one hundred yards to get to his car. Along with Ted Besen [who was unarmed], they approached Peter from different sides. As Tracy explains it, ‘I stopped at my vehicle and got a handgun, a revolver. Ted went toward Peter, and I aimed my gun at [Peter], and Peter tossed his gun down. Ted approached Peter, and Peter hit Ted in the jaw. Ted pushed him back and we all jumped on.’”

Pearl Mississippi High School Shooting

The moment Myrick heard shots, he ran to his truck. He unlocked the door, removed his gun from its case, removed a round of bullets from another case, loaded the gun and went looking for the killer. "I've always kept a gun in the truck just in case something like this ever happened," said Myrick, who has since become Principal of Corinth High School, Corinth, Miss.


As quoted by Dave Kope in today's WSJ (sorry, subscriber link only) Cesare Beccaria wrote

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man

Or woman, I might add.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Our Mission

The Debate

Blog powered by Typepad

May 2014

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
        1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31