ZDF Heute: An Interesting Choice of Graphics

(By Ray D.)

The image below shows the "ZDF Heute" homepage ("Heute Journal" is the news program for a major German state network - ZDF). The lead story addresses the concerns of some in Germany that the expansion of the US missile-shield into eastern Europe could lead to a new arms race with Russia. It is certainly a highly convenient opportunity for the Social Democrats - led by Kurt Beck and Foreign Minister Steinmeier, to score some political points and play on pacifist fears and their constituents' reflexive dislike of the United States. Sounds a lot like a replay of the Schroeder 2002 game plan - and many in Germany's media are playing along with their ideological allies.

The ZDF homepage: "U$A NO" - with bomb superimposed on US and EU flags. No anti-Americanism or populism here. Just more fair and objective journalism.

Just another day at the office for the German Hate-America media.

Comments

[Helian]

"To put it into a nutshell, I don't think the picture is meant to be the epitome of evil, but rather is a sloppy (ambivalent) and failed attempt to convey the political controversy surrounding the missile issue."

GO keeps rowing back, but never quite gets there.

"Sorry, but I fail to grasp why anti-American propaganda is somehow less objectionable when it has previously been shown on signs in demonstrations. (Helian)"

"It is not, nor did I say so."

Of course that's what you're saying, and it's obvious to everyone but you and your fellow apologists.

[joe]

GO

It must the sharp morally superior German mind that can parse these nuances.

Then again we all know your explanation is the correct one because there is no anti-Americanism in Germany and surely not from the ruling elites in Berlin.

Besides Germany is America’s ally.

[RayD]

I still can't understand commenters who bend over backwards to apologize for, condone and play down this ugly slander in German media time and again. It is like they are hamsters running around in their treadmills - sweating - desperately trying to convince us that black is white and up is down. In their furious (and emotional) effort to convince us that this is all innocent fun - they quickly surrender any credibility or intellectual honesty. At least confront the obvious: This is troubling - it is widespread in German media - and it needs to change!

[Chrisimo]

Ray,

it might be that some of them are actually trying to convince themselves and not others. Many probably don't want it to be true.

[german observer]

Helian

Of course that's what you're saying, and it's obvious to everyone but you and your fellow apologists.

I don't know about "my fellow apologists", but nope, I did not say that. I said that there is a difference between reporting and stating an opinion, and that it appears to me that people here think the ZDF designed this sign themselves, which I find highly unlikely (although they were sloppy, see above). If you know that they created this sign intentionally, I must indeed appear apologetic. But I don't know whether they designed this sign themselves, but it LOOKS like a photography from a demonstration. I mailed the ZDF to investigate who designed this picture.

joe

It must the sharp morally superior German mind that can parse these nuances.

Well, as I say, in my opinion there is a difference. We disagree. I don't know why you start calling names.

Then again we all know your explanation is the correct one because there is no anti-Americanism in Germany and surely not from the ruling elites in Berlin.

That's a nice straw-man you have there. Knock it down.

RayD

I assume you are referring to me, so:

I still can't understand commenters who bend over backwards to apologize for, condone and play down this ugly slander in German media time and again.

I get the impression that I'm rather dumb (no, really). Ray, if you KNOW that the ZDF DESIGNED the sign, I'll join you in underlining intentional anti-Americanism. MY opinion is that it might be sloppiness and ignorance that caused this picture, which is a different motivation than the Streicher itch.

It is like they are hamsters running around in their treadmills - sweating - desperately trying to convince us that black is white and up is down.

Lol! I'm not sweating, and I'm not trying to convince anybody that my opinion is the only true one, I just say I think it is likely. It cannot be ruled out at all that this was intentional.

In their furious (and emotional) effort to convince us that this is all innocent fun - they quickly surrender any credibility or intellectual honesty

I'm not furious at all, not emotional, lol. Nor is the picture innocent. Many strawmen here.

At least confront the obvious: This is troubling - it is widespread in German media - and it needs to change!

Indeed, I never denied that. I fully agree. I was merely talking (as stated from the beginning) that I was pondering the motivation of this picture.

[marisa]

German Observer

"It's an interesting if not impossible task to design a picture (not a text) that shows controversy between the US and parts of EU countries with respect to the missile shield without being controversial."

How about a EU flag on the left, a US flag on the right and a drawing of a missile shield in between?

[joe]

GO,

Actually if one were to read your comments, you are doing a fine job of knocking it down.

Now you want us to believe that Germans do not feel morally superior. Please.....LOL

[Chrisimo]

German Observer

"I get the impression that I'm rather dumb (no, really). Ray, if you KNOW that the ZDF DESIGNED the sign, I'll join you in underlining intentional anti-Americanism. MY opinion is that it might be sloppiness and ignorance that caused this picture, which is a different motivation than the Streicher itch."

You could give us your impression as to whether it is more likely or rather unlikey that the image was placed there to spread resentiments against the US.
Of course there is a possibility that this might be just sloppiness. There is also a possibility that I will live forever because some scientist learns to defy death. But I won't take this into considerations for my future plans. So tell me, how probable do you think your opinion is? 10%, 50%, 90%?

[german observer]

joe

I was referring to the fact that you assume that I think there is no systematic anti-Americanism in German media. I never said so! It's not true, and that's your straw-man. Knock it down.

I don't know about this superiority nonsense you talk about, I don't feel superior nor regard people as simpletons, as another reader insinuated. But it's interesting what is projected on me!

Another point: I was concentrating on a different motivation, i.e. cause for the picture. I stated how I perceived the picture. It would be interesting to find out how Germans out of DMK perceive it.

[WhatDoIKnow]

German observer repeats the exact same pattern like on that other thread I mentioned before - he defends with long paragraphs the undefendable.

In this case, since he can not deny the negative connotation of the picture his defense of the ZDF is that "ZDF didn't really create that bild, you know, it's just sloppiness". On the other thread is was only "stereotypes", now it's ony "sloppiness". Funny how those "honest" mistakes don't work both ways, isn't it...? When was the last time when a "honest" mistake presented America in a good light?

German observer, if you believe your stories, then by all means keep telling them to yourself before going to sleep. Who knows what modern version of the Gebrüder Grimm is waiting to be awakened in you. Don't let the negativity on DMK stand in the way of your fantasy.

[Alex N.]

@ Ray D.:

I think, the first reason is what Chrisimo gave - there is A LOT of truth to that.

The other reason is that they are starting to feel the heat. But instead of trying to be one of those putting out the fire, they prefer saying "It is not so hot" or that "there is no fire at all". So, some of them might simply be delusionists, who object to anyone slamming the truth into their face. After all, being delusionist is much more comfortable than being a fire-fighter. At least until they get burned, too. Then it will be "I didn't know" "I wasn't part of it" "I didn't agree" all over again.

[Chrisimo]

German Observer

"I was referring to the fact that you assume that I think there is no systematic anti-Americanism in German media. I never said so!"

Then say what you think! Is there a systematic Anti-Americanism in the German media? Yes or No?

[german observer]

Chirismo

Then say what you think! Is there a systematic Anti-Americanism in the German media? Yes or No?

There is. I know that I must appear like a troll in here, but I've defended the US more often than you can imagine. I just think that, apart from the Streicher itch, other causes might be behind this picture. I just don't know.

[german observer]

Back to the defensive missiles: Ex-Nato-General wirft deutschen Politikern Ahnungslosigkeit vor - I think far more dangerous than this picture under discussion is the fact that German politicians are replaying the "Lieber rot als tot"-act. The general is fully right - the politicians are basically toally ignorant.

[WhatDoIKnow]

Then it will be "I didn't know" "I wasn't part of it" "I didn't agree" all over again.

Alex N.

You hit the nail on the head with that. It won't happen this year, or next year, but it will inevitably happen. Only a completely deluded person (and there are many like that) can believe that the media of our times will be treated kindly in the future. I believe the change will eventually come from within the media itself (that's why it's going to take a long time) and when that happens it will be quite ugly. Many of today "journalists" (the ones young enough to be still around when it happens) will count on the short memories of the people and on Nazi excuses.

[Chrisimo]

Then don't defend it. You seem too eager to defend the editor of this article.

[german observer]

Chrisimo

Then don't defend it. You seem too eager to defend the editor of this article.

Let me ask you a simple question, so I can clarify this for me. Does it make a difference to you whether this picture is the result of sloppily putting an existing sign (e.g. from a demonstration) into the framework of US and EU flags, or whether the sign was intentionally created by the ZDF?

[Chrisimo]

Not really, no. I tried to illustrate that when I asked you if you would consider an article about the NPD with a picture from Der Stuermer as reporting. If you use on obvious Anti-American sign and even incorporate it into a design of your own then you have to be sympathetic with that view. It's not like they used the original photo of the demonstration. If the editor REALLY did not get the message from that sign, then he shoul'nt be allowed to publish an article for a long time - if ever again. And I don't think that only one person at ZDF actually reads or edits those articles.

[german observer]

Chrisimo

If you use on obvious Anti-American sign and even incorporate it into a design of your own then you have to be sympathetic with that view.

Yeah, often, but I do not think that this is necessarily always the case. What about this?

It's not like they used the original photo of the demonstration.

Aye, there lies the rub. If they had done that, the picture would have been much clearer.

But what I originally was pointing at with my question was: I did not see this picture as anti-American initially (see above), because I thought it depicts different opinions of the US and EU that are controversially discussed especially by left-oriented demonstrators. I actually saw the sign in the picture as a demonstration sign. It appeared to be rather a shame to people with such opinions. I did not see that this picture can be perceived as anti-American in that it displays vile assumptions next to an American flag. Maybe I'm dumb but that is how I saw it.

Thanks for the discussion, I'll leave now. Overall, I think DMK is a valuable site.

[Helian]

Chrisimo,

"If the editor REALLY did not get the message from that sign, then he shoul'nt be allowed to publish an article for a long time - if ever again. And I don't think that only one person at ZDF actually reads or edits those articles."

You're not taking into account a fundamental assumption in GO's argument; that the editors of ZDF have been living on the back side of the moon (with GO) for the last 20 years and are also complete idiots, and, therefore, have no clue that grotesque anti-American propaganda that is literally dripping with hate could be understood as anything but an (albeit "sloppy" and "lazy") attempt to characterize a controversy over the stationing of a missile defense.

[Matz]

Chrisimo,

"Please tell me, which of the offered opinions on this matter are more likely to you! Was it a mistake/sloppy/etc? Or was it a deliberate try to instill a specific view of the US in the reader?"

I don't know! It could be everything. But look at the article itself: it is just matter of fact and gives a roundabout view of the opinions on that topic through all politial parties. The main topic is the critique of the SPD, as the title says, but there is also at least 1/3 pro from the CDU:

"Der außenpolitische Sprecher der Unionsfraktion, Eckart von Klaeden (CDU), wies Kritik an dem geplanten Abwehrsystem in Osteuropa zurück. "Niemand im Westen will ein neues Wettrüsten", sagte er der dpa. Bundeskanzlerin Angela Merkel (CDU) äußerte sich zuversichtlich, dass der innereuropäische Streit über die Stationierung schnell beigelegt werden kann."
...
"Klaeden hielt den Kritikern vor, sie seien bislang "eine überzeugende Antwort schuldig geblieben, wie unsere Bevölkerung wirksam vor den Gefahren geschützt werden soll, die mit der Aufrüstung des Iran verbunden sind." Nicht die Pläne der USA, sondern die Aktivitäten des Iran brächten die Gefahr eines neuen atomaren Wettrüstens mit sich, sagte er. Dies berge auch das Risiko der Weitergabe von Nuklearmaterial an Terroristen. "Es ist daher unverständlich, wie man vor den Plänen der USA für ein Raketenabwehrsystem mehr Sorge haben kann als vor dem iranischen Nuklear- und Raketenprogramm."

The pro arguments are quite strong, as you will notice. So all in all, I regard the option that the image was deliberately chosen as not probable. The author could have very well omitted the pro statements completely, given the articles heading.

[Chrisimo]

German Observer

"Yeah, often, but I do not think that this is necessarily always the case. What about this?"

I'm sorry, but I don't see a picture there. Did you mean something else?

"I did not see this picture as anti-American initially (see above),"

I believe you. But ask yourself: Do you want to find answers that show that this isn't necessarily Anti-American? Do you want it perhaps so much that you are actually trying to excuse things that can't be excused?

Matz

The picture sets the tone. It is the deciding factor for the reader to decide who are the good ones and who are the bad ones. The article itself does not give a clue as to whether the system is needed/good or harmful. The system is, according to Wieczorek-Zeul, "extrem teuren, technisch unausgereiften und unzuverlässigen Abwehrtechnologien". The picture on the other side does give a clear impression on who the evil side is.

[Chrisimo]

Matz

An addition: We have one politican say that the missle defense is needed. Then we have another politican say that the US system is useless. In the last part Steinmeier says that the protection of Europe should be in European hands. Combine that with the picture and you get a clearer view.

[joe]

You mean demostrators in Germany now carry transparent signs?

This is both sophisticated and clever. To think how lucky the graphics department at ZFD were to get a picture of this and then superimpose it over two flags.

[joe]

Maybe a better way to have depicted this would have to put the french, german flags on the left and the American, British, Polish and Czech flags on the right with a “No to Defense” sign torn in two between the sets of flags.

It does seem Germany is once again in an alliance with Russia and France.

Some things really do not change. The lessons of history are forever lost.

[Hector07]

@Franzis,

"The clipart above is the kind of motive I would expect to see on a photograph of a protester with his sandwich banner. An article on this issue could also feature a photograph of the weapons system in action, of the electronics development scientists, or a missile range map or sattelite imagery. If such a clipart appears directly as a part of the redactional design, it may be an indication that the writer fantasises of himself as said protester. As to the clipart itself, I noted that it does not directly refer to missile defense, as even to my civilian eyes the bomb seems to be a model that would be dropped from an airplane rather than being installed on a missile, but I may be wrong on these technical details. Maybe it is referring to one of the devices in the nuclear sharing."

ROTFL. OK, so you basically think this cartoonish depiction is OK. Your incredible mental gymnastics to justify an unfair and volksaufhetzenden picture in a major German media outlet only serve to illustrate your inability to be honest about your disdain for the USA. Hate and smear us if you will, but at least be honest about it. We're not as stupid as you have convinced yourself we are.

[Hector07]

@Matz,

"I have to admit, however, that the particular picture here is unnecessary and a bit sensational - on the other hand, it is somehow summarizes and illustrates the SPD's opinion on the issue, which is the topic of the article."

Thanks for at least partially admitting that the picture is inappropriate and lacking in objectivity. At the same time, does ZDF think it is their duty to depict the SPD's position in a graphic? Does the CDU/CSU, FDP, Greens, and others get their own little cartoon as well?

I lived in Germany for many years and experienced all of the various media. Overall, the sensationalist use of headlines and pictures, usually very slanted in one direction, reminds me of the media in the developing world, not that of am modern democracy.

[Matz]

Hector07,

it's perhaps interesting that at first, I didn't recognize the picture (it's content) at all. Only after reading the subline I looked closer. The "U$A" I noticed only after some seconds.

It would be a nice experiment: show the article to someone (of course without pointing to the picture), and then ask them what was in the picture.
I think that people don't look at abstract pictures. What immediately captures the eye is faces. This is basic psychology. Of course there is a difference if you are actually hunting for something - then you see a lot of details which others don't even notice.

[Hector07]

@Matz,
Or does it tell us that you are so accustomed to seeing cartoonish distortions of another country that you don't even notice it? Or isn't it funny how the ZDF website has shrunk the picture since this site pointed it out - like they are trying to hide what they have done.

Again, would you consider it fair and objective if Germany was depicted in the same way in the website of a major US television network?

[FranzisM]

Hector. It´s always fun to pretend reading minds, but please at which point did I applaud the decision of the television journalist to fantasise of himself as a street protester? As soon as you calm down a bit you will see I didn´t.

As to the nuclear sharing, I do not see how this contributes to protect us against current threats. Maybe it´s exactly the other way round, and NATO could be more flexible if programs that have their purpose accomplished were phased out.

If you still believe I would be hating you, consider that I made a broad statement about journalists using clipart (and I´m not talking about chart diagrams here) instead of photography to illustrate a current newsstory. This is a rarity which happens from psychological reasons only.

[Matz]

Hector07,

"Or does it tell us that you are so accustomed to seeing cartoonish distortions of another country that you don't even notice it?"

Might be possible. It's all a matter of perspective.

"Or isn't it funny how the ZDF website has shrunk the picture since this site pointed it out - like they are trying to hide what they have done.""

No they didn't - DMKs screenshot was from the start page. See the orange menu entry on the left? ;-)

"Again, would you consider it fair and objective if Germany was depicted in the same way in the website of a major US television network?"

No, I would probably be pissed off and hurt. I know that feeling myself from media or politicians - sometimes "unfair" things are said that put into question your basic convictions, that can be quite hurtful.

[Hector07]

@Franzis,
Once again, your overexplanation in defending these graphics is an interesting psychological study in itself. "Applaud the journalist?" Where did that come from? Strawmen-r-us? And then there is the hilarious admonition to "calm down." Your smokescreen is getting thicker as you seem to be running out of ideas for how to keep up your dogmatic defense of the distorted and cartoonish graphics used by ZDF.

@Matz,
Fair enough. Its been fun and interesting discussing this issue with you. Its nice to know that at least someone can admit that these sorts of images are neither fair nor objective. Worst of all, they drive a wedge between our peoples.

Cheers,

Hector

[LC Mamapajamas]

@Marisa... "German Observer

"It's an interesting if not impossible task to design a picture (not a text) that shows controversy between the US and parts of EU countries with respect to the missile shield without being controversial."

How about a EU flag on the left, a US flag on the right and a drawing of a missile shield in between?"

Excellent observations :). But what would a missile shield look like? Perhaps an umbrella stretched OVER the two flags, with bombs falling harmlessly upon the umbrella?

That would be a more to-the-point graphic than the "controversy" ZDF felt compelled to display. You got my artist's imagination working toward something that makes a lot more sense than ZDF's web page! :)

[marisa]

@LC Mamapajamas

After I posted my comment yesterday I wondered if you could really draw a missile shield (I don't know anything about weapon systems), so I did a Google image search. Some of the images I liked were of a glass bell over a map with missiles shooting up. Anyhow, I think your average graphic designer could come up with several images to accompany the story without taking sides on the matter. The one from ZDF is simply anti-American.

[joe]

It is always interesting from a big picture to witness how Germans don't want to do anything but don't want others to do anything either.

When asked about their suggestions and recommendations for courses of action......the answer is always - wait out we will get back to you.

When and if and that is a big IF, their recomendations have little to do with the issue other than taking the Rodney King approach of "let's all be nice"

[FranzisM]

@Hector07 - Oh brother. If I answer you then I am overexplaining, and If I do not then I am running out of ideas. Now that is a double-bind showcase.

Still, what I find interesting is that earlier in this conversation you talked about Persia producing a smokescreen, and now you are talking about me producing a smokescreen, what certainly can be called a change of subject.

All I´m defending the television jornalist from is dhimmitude, I´m not defending him from anyone´s scrutiny. For the record, the owner of this online nickname as he sits in front of this computer does not hold a very high opinion of contemporaries who waste their time at the glotze. I just don´t hold too many expectations to television, if you have any problems with that, blame it on "Jackbauer" not on me.

BTW, I noted that the webpage in question does not name a responsible individual. Every crappy propaganda snippet at Der Spiegel carries the name of some intern at least. I suppose that´s the difference between state and commercial media.

[joe]

Franz

Why should there be an individual named. It should just be the minster in berlin who has responsibility.

Then again GO thinks this is just being sloppy. Pamela thinks the germans are the US allies.

Next thing we will all be writing letters to Santa Claus for a new pony

[Hector07]

@Franzis,
Yes, rhetorical smokescreens are employed by those who are trying to change the subject (to draw attention away from the topic) or because they are out of ideas. You have been doing your best to avoid talking about the subject, hiding behind a smokescreen, while I've asked you to get back on it.

Thanks for finally talking about the ZDF graphics. I see you don't expect much from the TV crowd. I don't expect much from them but is it too much to expect a public channel not to resort to stoop to the level of cartoonish distortions of the Bildzeiting?

[german observer]

Just for the record... I have thought about this picture, and tried to take an American perspective, and compare it with a "standard" German perspective. I really think that most of the German audience will perceive the picture as supportive of their impressions of the USA, as they have been created in the German media. That is, "America is evil". I think it is more probable that the picture has been created, or posted, with a goal, that may be unintentional, or better: subconscious.

It's anti-american, pure ans simple. I had to do some work to get through to this, as you will know from my elaborations above. But that is what I think now. Just my 2 cents.

[Matz]

GO,

I wonder why we Germans are always so keen on taking other's perspective and giving up our own. It's ok to try to understand what others think, but in the end, to judge, you must do this from your own perspective. This is what american readers here do.

I think it's useless to think about such a picture for hours and hours and analyze and interpret, because that's not how it is peceived in a normal context. By analyzing this way you will always be able to find things that support or oppose any possible viewpoint. Also it's misleading to take such a picture out of its context and to try to conclude things from it.

What's important is how this picture is perceived by normal Germans when browsing the ZDF website and not what overcritical conservative americans think of it after hours of analyzation.
As I said, I didn't even notice there was something special about this picture on first glance. I read the headline "SPD verstärkt Kritik..." and the picture besides it is just an illustration of what the SPD says: "USA-NO". The reaction is - well, the SPD criticizes the US plans for the missile shield. I'm quite sure that this is the normal way to perceive this picture and similar ones - for Germans.

The idea that this type of thing can change or enforce someones viewpoint is a rather simplistic view. How humans build their opinion is an incredibly complex process and cannot be rationally explained. Take the very differing reactions on this picture as an example.

To conclude: I totally agree that this picture, taken by itself out of its context, is an affront against americans und must be perceived as antiamerican propaganda. Therefore, to avoid misunderstandings, one should try to avoid such things for articles that just report facts, in contrast to pieces that comment.
In the context however, in which it appears (German audience), this picture is much less meaningful. Context and perspective is everything.

[Alex N.]

"It's ok to try to understand what others think, but in the end, to judge, you must do this from your own perspective."

Sound judgement is done by checking the actions and claims in question against facts, not perspectives.

[Matz]

Alex,

you are right. Fact is that "U$A" is not neutral, fact is also that I didn't notice that until DMK told me, that there is nothing to criticize within article itself, and that it is a zillionth part of a highly professional and competent website. A person with a certain viewpoint will take that as a confirmation that ZDF or German media are antiamerican, I don't. This is perspective.

Btw, I wish someone would provide me with a definition of "anti-american" - for me this term smells too often of being a handy tool for silencing critique.

[James W.]

"What's important is how this picture is perceived by normal Germans when browsing the ZDF website and not what overcritical conservative americans think of it after hours of analyzation."

"A person with a certain viewpoint will take that as a confirmation that ZDF or German media are antiamerican, I don't. "

Bullshit! I've lived here (Germany) now for nearly half of my life. I think you would have to be living in a cave to not recognize anti-Americanism from influential German media sources. A magazine cover here, a headline there, a picture here... All the stereotypes and lies and half-truths about Americans have to be coming from somewhere. Most of them get repeated by different people that don't know each other...so there must be a common source. I've heard many of these things echoed in the German msm...to include ZDF and ARD.

I simply find it very difficult to believe that ZDF does not recognize that anti-Americanism exists in the German media; therefore, I would think that if they truly were balanced, that they would do their best to avoid false perceptions. With U$A and a bomb, I cannot see that they've done that. It supports the idiotic view that I've heard from numerous Germans that America goes to war to "get rid of it's old bombs so they can build new ones, and make lots of money" (come on...I'm certain many here have heard similar crap). How many people do you think have looked at that picture without actually reading the article?

As far as conservative goes...just ask yourself when watching the next time: How often is the conservative American perspective explained on ZDF (or any other source) in comparison to the "balanced" (read Democrat and liberal) perspective?

[Chrisimo]

Matz

"I think it's useless to think about such a picture for hours and hours and analyze and interpret, because that's not how it is peceived in a normal context. By analyzing this way you will always be able to find things that support or oppose any possible viewpoint. Also it's misleading to take such a picture out of its context and to try to conclude things from it."

That is what open-mindedness is about. To not just accept the mere possibility that the other side may be right but to actively examine your own thoughts. If you continue to rely on established thought-patterns you are not open-minded.

[FranzisM]

@joe - Why not send a copy of your letter to the Christkind?

@Hector07 - Attention is not a zero-sum game. I have explained my proposal to the television journalist in the first statement I made in this thread. The ZDF should better have allocated the resources wasted for this little online demonstration to reporting about the new threat of further terrorist attacks within the heart of Europe by a regime blowhard in an apparatschik weekly in Teheran. As to the Bildzeitung, it hands out hearts on bumperstickers in a cooperation with the ZDF, but apparently this has not made any of them pay attention to this cordial threat so far, so much as to their lack of grounding in reality.

[WhatDoIKnow]

matz

You should read DMK more carefully. If, after reading this link (especially what Eberhard Piltz and other German media people are saying), you still claim there is no fundamental problem in the German media (obviously including ZDF), then you are exactly the charlatan you seem to be.

[Matz]

The article is interesting, but he attributes the problem eclusively on the German side, which I think is wrong.
Demanding fair and unbiased reporting is fine as long as we have a common understanding of what is right and what is wrong. But when one side leaves that common ground by e.g. developing a new policy of "preemtive war", or denying people human rights, "objective" reporting isn't possible any more. The same goes for example for an arab leader that provides sound arguments why women should be beaten - some thing simply aren't discussable.

[Mir]

I guess that's the reason why Saddam murdering of hundreds of thousands of "his" people never got attention in Germany: It was simply not discussable. Oh, I forgot - that never happened, right? Bush propaganda, nothing more. And the Iranian or NK regime denying their people basic human rights? Not discussable as well. No, wait - it also isn't happening. No Americans involved, ergo: Nothing to report. Move along, please ...

[Matz]

"No Americans involved, ergo: Nothing to report."

Hm, I would say, essentially a myth. No wonder, though, when I look at how people focus on what they want to see and blend out the rest. Example: this thread.
What newspapers do you read?

[joe]

Mir,

People like Matz see nothing wrong with people like Saddam. They may stand from time to time on a very small soapbox and make a little noise but if they are ever asked to actually do something then the problem really is not that bad. They revert to the Rodney King mode of conversation.

This really is nothing new.