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Comments

Well, if I'm going thru someone's belongings while they're in the shower, I'm pretty sure I'm going to find something I don't want them to know I've found and that they didn't want me to find in the first place.

Ah. 48-hour rule. Why the intelligence services should tell the media anything remotely true is beyond me.

Ok. In that case, I give it a 48-year rule.

Time to increase troop numbers. Germany's government is showing signs that they don't get it.

The question is, what was the amount she was paid? If only a few thousand, then it was hardly worth it, you could make more working at McDonald's. But if we're talking real money, say $100,00 or more, then hey! What a great way to make a living! I'd get started by brushing up on my Islamofascist rhetoric, except I don't think Bush is into paying ransoms.

We may never figure or find out what happened beyond the fact that this deal is really messed up. The American family involved is heartsick and angry as hell at both Germany and their own govenment.

I am too.

Regarding her "captors". If they in fact were Islamic, and really her captors, they had permission from Allah to rape her and "sell" her. It is in the Qur'an.

Maybe they just felt a little guilty and gave her what they thought a prostitute should earn.

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA

Sorry, off topic, but I (and I am sure many other readers) would appriciate it if you could translate Salman Rushdie's interview with Stern and comment on it. It is supposed to be released soon. They supposedly had a preview or such today. I have only seen it mentioned on blogs. It has to do with the fear that Muslims have of women and sexuality.

Maybe that will help explain why muslims hide their women and rape their enemies or captives.

Maybe..?

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA

Maybe her kidnappers were paying her off so that they wouldn't have to talk to her anymore, ala The Ransom of Red Chief.

One recalls the Japanese Kidnapping? I seem to remember that there was some information on their personal websites before they left, indicating that they would be taking part in some dramatic event that would "make a difference"??

We are now left to believe that Germany traded a murderer of a US service member for what? For someone who was never kidnapped and never was in danger and who was paid to appear in a video.

I strongly disapprove of any ransom payments, but Hamadi wasn't *traded*, he was released on parole, which was arranged months ahead of Osthoff's abduction.

From an article published in June 2005:

One of the hijackers, Mohammed Hamadei, was caught in Germany, convicted, and sentened to life. But he could be out on parole in six months. The U.S. wants him brought to this country for trial.

The decison to parole him came was made by a state, and not a federal court. There isn't much Merkel could have done about it. I also disapprove of this, too, Hamadi should have died in prison of old age in my opinion.

Ralf,

There is no proof what so ever of what you are saying.

Equally you cannot tell me or anyone else that Berlin could not have handed this murderer over to the US should they have wanted.

I would hope you will continue to defend the “honor” of Germany. You position continues to be weaken with each new bit of information.

You have to keep in mind that under German law to be sentenced to life in prison doesn't actually mean that you have to stay in prison until you die. Life-long prison-terms were declared unconstitutional by a decision of the Bundesverfassungsgericht (German Supreme Court) in the late 70ies.

To be sentenced to life in prison in Germany therefore generally means 15 + x years where x only in very rare cases is more than 5 years. Unfortunately, I guess, this Hizbollah Terrorist had to be released after 20 years.

joe,

read the article I linked to - it discusses Hamadi's parole, in June 2005.

Hamadi also was a state, and not a federal prisoner. There also is something called double jeopardy, as you should know. Even I do point out that the realse was wrong, in my opinion.


Btw, I will ignore you from now on. You are going to attack me, no matter what I write:

I realize as I hope others will too, that you do not know the truth if it were to hit you in the face. I accept this..


But you are German so why would one expect anything else from you.


So what you find objectionable is that I am German, not what I'm writing. :)

Could it be that ol' Rush Limbaugh's prediction a couple of days after the kidnapping is now being fulfilled? He smelled something fishy from day one, and it seems he may have had good reason to.

Ralf,

Ignore if you choose. Just do not ignore the truth.

This was not an attack on you but on what you have said.

You want to present this as the truth and yet what is the source. The set of sources, which stated Germany would not be blackmailed and then proceed to pay a ransom. Or was this just a donation to the victims of American’s imperialism?

There was also a source, which stated the parole hearing was moved forward from mid January of 2006 to when it occurred. This caught a lot of people by surprise to include the US government.

Equally I can understand why you would not want to believe this. Frankly I do not either but to this point there is more than reasonable doubt concerning the release of the murderer of a US service member in exchange for what appears to be a non-kidnapped German citizen.

Spin this anyway you choose. The truth will come out just as I predicted about this entire thing was nothing more than a hoax. The degree of the depth of this hoax is what remains to be discovered.

I find it interesting that on the Captain’s Quarters your comment dealt with this murderer of a US service member facing the death penalty in the US. If you really know about this case then you would be aware the US waived the death penalty and so stated in writing to the German government. But then again this is nothing more than a defense of an indefensible action on the part of the German government.

There is a new spin for every comment and every position.

I do not find you being a German at all objectionable. It is your German relativism and moral posturing which I find objectioinal.

I cannot tell you how pissed I am to think of Iraqi and US soldiers risking their lives trying to recover a "kidnap victim" who is instead involved in fraud, blackmail and terrorist support, essentially diverting the focus of men who would otherwise be engaged in providing security for the Iraqi people and helping them rebuilding their infrastructure. How are Iraqi and American democrats to tolerate the "allied" purchase of more terrorist victims (overwhelmingly innocent Iraqis) funded by the German government? The EUrocrats would have us somehow believe their position is morally sound, and even "humantarian". Sickening.

Alright joe,

I might have to look at this case a bit more closely. There still is the double jeopardy issue, no matter if the capital punishment was waived or not.

Not that it proves anything, but 19 years isn't a short. All but two or three RAF terrorists served less time for this, and those few exceptions had been condemned to several life sentences, unlike Hamadi. So I don't see any immediate reason to suspect fould play when I hear of a 19 year prison term.

Besides, Merkel's (Social Democrat) predecessor Helmit Schmidt decided not to negotiate with terrorists, even though it meant the death of the Chairman of the German Employer's association (after the initial mistake of negotiating with the terrorists in a previous case). I think that Merkel has learned of these experiences.

Like I said, I'll look a bit more closely at the case. But do feel free to point out any cases of 'relativism and moral posturing' I engaged in.

Ralf,
Pardon for my butting in, yet you have wrote some things that have prompted.

The RAF you mentioned, most of the major players killed themselves in prison(of course a politically motivated suicide-pact to try to make it look like the cops did it) so they didn't make it to their parole hearing. One of the major RAF 'rades who did get a early release had to hire some hotshot lawyer and SPD party hack named Gerhard Schroeder. His name you know is Horst Mahler, and he turned Nazi in prison by re-reading that confounded philosopher, Hegel (Horst didn't have to travel far ideologically). Great reformed citizen, huh? Many, including GasMan Gerhard undoubtedly, wishes Mahler was back in prison and "didn't get out early", but act self-righteous about Hammedi's early release saying that 18 years is 'life' by their standards. Why is this?

Lets see, there are 2 sides of the story about the assumed "trade".
First there is a rumor, that is predominatly a loose construct kind of theory, which has little proof and is far away from being any "truth".
On the other side, there is german federal law and jurisdiction, which has been independent for quite a while now. According to these, it is in fact quite usual that those convicted of life sentence are released after 15-20 years. It is pretty much the standard. Could you say that written laws, avaivable for everyone to read are true ? Very much so I think.

Please enlighten us and show the link the written German penal law - "15-20 years is a Life sentence." We all want to see it.

I could easily believe that Life is usually 15-20 years in Germany. That's Germany's decision. What I can not excuse is saying, oh well, that was a state crime, so he can't be extradited. Might as well use any treaty, on any subject, we have with Germany as toilet paper, because that's about what they're worth.

It's easy to believe that Life = 15-20 years or so, many states in the US did that as well, not sure if they do it anymore. But I don't get the secretly letting the murderer out and making sure he gets back to his country of choice without anyone knowing about it. I'm going to go ahead and assume that's in written laws in Germany as well. Can nothing for it, it's law.

Sleepy,

this article is only available to subscribers now, but it says that the Bush Administration was notified a couple of days before Hamdi's release:

http://insider.washingtontimes.com/articles/normal.php?StoryID=20051221-120025-9152r


steppendaft,

yes, some of the RAF didn't survive, but most were captured alive.

The wikipedia article on "life-sentence" in Germany is actually pretty good, so I'll link it here for everyone who can read german. Also take note, that the legal position about the "schwere der schuld" as described in the article has changed after hammadi was convicted and thus doesnt apply to his case.

Here it is: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebenslänglich

As to why he wasn't extradited, I think the position about the death penalty here in germany is known to everyone. And that exactly was the reason why it didn't happen. (http://bundesrecht.juris.de/irg/BJNR020710982.html -> paragraph 8)The fact that a state court was in charge about the issue, is regulated by law too. So I don't really get where all the mystery is coming from.

Note from David: The wikipedia article doesn't address the question of an extradition to another country (the U.S. in this case).
It is ridiculous to assume that the Landgericht Kleve had the power to override an agreement between the governments of Germany and the U.S. to extradite Hamadi to the U.S. once he had served his German time. Also, I find it strange that while German law (§ 57a StGB) demands a 5-year probation period if someone is released earlier from a prison sentence for life, Hamadi was released on condition of his immediate return to Lebanon. How do you verify his behaviour during this probation period when the guy is in Lebanon? By mail?
The whole thing smells like a deal as part of the Osthoff case.

@steppendaft - To understand Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, you must know that the Catholic cathedral of Berlin is a Greek temple. Frederick the Great rebuilt a model of ancient Greece in Prussia, and the Hegelian dialectics is part of that heritage. On the other hand, Horst Mahler is a sick would-be-führer who has nothing to do with Hegel but all with Bader-Meinhofs wet dream of the reich.

As for Osthoff, all that is certain is that the release of the Stethem killer should not have happened.

David: The LG Kleve can't extradite someone after his/her sentence is served in Germany. Not even possible by international law. The US department of justice also knows this, and this may be why there wasnt another request. Whether or not he wasn't extradited when he was caught back in the 80s - I don't know for sure. Altho my assumption is that the "death penalty" clause (I guess you didnt see the link) was in the way, treaty or not.
That he was released on condition of return to libanon does indeed look weird, but the court can decide that freely. I'm sure since he hasnt a german passport, other law applies as well about the probation period. Nothing solid on that right now tho. If anything, this is the only thing that I find suspicious, ok. But whether this is enough to proof that there was a trade for Mrs. Osthoff - I don't think so. There is just too much evidence that those 2 cases don't have anything to do with each other at all.

Note from David:
Re "The LG Kleve can't extradite someone after his/her sentence is served in Germany." That's not under dispute between us. Here is what I wrote: "It is ridiculous to assume that the Landgericht Kleve had the power to override an agreement between the governments of Germany and the U.S. to extradite Hamadi to the U.S. once he had served his German time."
I simply don't believe the Landgericht Kleve was involved in the extradition of Hammadi to Lebanon and the apparent waiving of the probation period. There has got to be political influence from the highest level.
And my innocent assumption is - given the timing of it all - that the Hammadi and the Osthoff case are interwoven.

Well, it seems a couple of more Germans have been kidnapped. Two engineers this time.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/01/24/D8FB6N2O3.html

Apparently the Osthoff kidnapping was just a proof of concept. I wonder what the accountants will list these continuing expenses as on the German budget?

Oh Erici,

Germany is now known as the funders of terrorism. This is not a surprise.

Part of the new Germany foreign policy.

Hope they get use to it.

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