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@joe

a tall glass of thetruth is hard to swallow for you...isn't it?

thetruth,

Depends on your view of just what the truth is.

But since you have chosen to defind it your way, I want you to stick with it. As I said looks as if the left is starting early on a possible new POTUS.

You guys failed in sliming the current one.

As we say in Atlanta about the Braves and the World Series, wait to next year.


You really do need another refreshing glass. And BTW if you are an American I sure hope you guys select Hillary or Howard.

I guess it would be wishing for too much for an H&H ticket.


@joe

That;s the best reply you could come up with. Changing the subject...
What about my original post? no respone to it?
That;s right.... There is only one truth and it can't be bend......

Actually I did not think it even warrented a comment as I failed to see how it was revlant to anything much less the topic of this thread...

But hey, if that makes you feel good... do it.

@thetruth
>>He oversaw the first Persian Gulf War and acted as a principal organizer of the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq, orchestrating a campaign of public deception and propaganda that had no precedent since the days of the Hitlerite “big lie.”

Cripes, you left out ISRAEL! Dumbass. The Jews paid him for all of it.

@Frederick & Joe
>>I don't know whether Pamela actually teaches anything or has any degrees. I think she may have gotten the Indian Princess job as some kind of affirmative action thing. I guess they figured anybody could teach European cultural awareness.

>>Of course, I would never ever say Pamela got her's from such of a source.

Affirmative action it is. For Jews. My Hebrew name is Eliora ("my G-d is light").

Look, you just can't win with me. American. Indian Princess. Jew.

Surrender now.

Ok, Just trying to catch up here.

@Frederick

I seem to remember sitting in class thinking I could do this with my eyes closed. As a matter of fact I sat through most of my classes with my eyes closed.

@the truth

Thank you for the welcome. As for Dick Cheney, wow, he really has an impressive resume. I would love for him to be the next president. I also happen to think that he is one of the sexiest men alive today. Don't you?

@Joe

I got my BA for $50.00 so I bet you think you're better than me now don'tcha?

MediaCritter,

Was that with a frame or without? These come with frames, as well as wallet size copy to flash to your friends.

Mine was framed. My mother still has it hanging in the toilet! It also came with a keyring. Did yours? Hmmmmmm?

NO

Test

second Test

Somebody here says, that "Germany has been an anti-american-country-for the past
90 years". I can't support that statement, cause it's not historical correct!
The autor completely ignores the actions of the 30.000 german mercenaries in British Service fighting against the american rebels during the War of Independence... the
event lies 230 years back and that's definitly more as 90.... ;)

(PS: I'm a German and I'm proud of it! I know the history during the last 500 years was a "little bit" bloody and cruel but who cares?)

M.S.

concerning the "Hessians" fighting with the British against the American rebels.
You forget one thing: most of the so-called mercenaries were not asked if they wanted to fight in the colonies. They did not fight against the Americans because they were anti- American. They fought for the British Crown because they had been bought from their Masters on the Continent. And these people, like the Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel ( who received 3 Million!! English Pounds for his soldiers)or the Margrave of Ansbach- Bayreuth were not Anti- Americans either. For them it was a great way to make a lot of money. Politics didn't have much to do with this.
About 5000 of these "mercenaries" did not return to Europe after the fighting was over. They decided to stay in the USA.

@ geoduck


Thank you very much for that fine little supplement! Seven years war and during all this time just 5000 of these Hessian soldiers where killed??? Well, that's a pretty bad result, but they where no Prussians, just undisciplinated cowards!

@M.S

I think you misunderstood me. Approx. 5000 "Hessians" decided they would rather live in the USA then return to Europe. Some because their commanders refused to take them home, either because they were thought to be criminals or physically unfit.
About 7700 died- 1200 KIA and the rest of illness or accidents.
Why do you call them undisciplined cowards?

@ geoduck

Exactly so. They were fine soldiers. As good as the Prussians Baron von Steuben had commanded. You also are right that those who were no longer fit for service were just left behind, at least the Brunswickers were. Many others deserted during the war. Some joined the American army. The French Marquis de la Rouerie commanded a unit of 400 German deserters. Others just accepted the American offer of 50 acres of land to each deserter, found wives and went off to become Americans.

There also, as you probably know, were the "Black Hessians," black soldiers recruited in America to replace casualties or deserters. Thirty or so of the Black Hessians returned with their units to Germany. After one died, he was dissected in the anatomy theater of the Collegium Carolinum in Cassel and found to look just like a German on the inside.

@ Frederik: "The French Marquis de la Rouerie commanded a unit of 400 German deserters."


Deserters = "fine soldiers"??? HA! HA! HA! Well I hope the 400 german bastards where all
killed!

The hessian where bad...very bad soldiers. Undisciplinated and not very loyal!
The progress of the battle of Trenton on December 26th. 1776 is proofs enough!
Not comparable with the elite units of the prussian army!
"As good as the Prussian Baron von Steuben had commanded." HA! HA! HA! These statement
is so wrong like Steubens title "Baron von" he never was a real nobleman it's all fake!

@M.S.

why did you expect them to be loyal? They had been sold like slaves and you expect loyalty. Even in Germany caused the sale of these troops to the British Crown a scandal. This is what Frederick the Great wrote :
Wäre der hessische Landgraf", so schrieb er, "aus meiner Schule hervorgegangen, so würde er seine Untertanen nicht wie Vieh, das an die Schlachtbank geführt wird, an die Engländer verkauft haben. Das ist ein unwürdiger Zug in dem Charakter eines Fürsten. Solches Vertragen ist durch nichts als schmutzige Selbstsucht hervorgerufen.

I don't like it if other people start to compare these sold hessian amateur mercenaries
with Frederick the Greats army! Sure,they had similar styled Uniforms, but
that's definitly all, the rest is so different like day and night! First time
I thougt the guy(Frederik) did jokes as he start to call the Hessians as "fine soldiers"...they just where totaly inexperienced young hicks, clothed in in brand-new prussian styled Uniforms and sold to the british Generals!

@ geoduck: "Even in Germany..."


"Germany"? That Nation doesn't exist in 1776! It was just a ridiculous collection of over 300 independent german speaking miniature states...!

@ geoduck

"They had been sold like slaves and you expect loyalty."

Yes. And despite that they still were remarkably loyal. They deserted in lower rates than the English and Scots regulars, perhaps because of their inability to speak English. And they performed as well as any soldiers in the Revolutionary War, even those in the best British regiments, or so said Burgoyne and Howe. The three Hessian regiments (about a 1000 soldiers) at Trenton that sometimes are cited as exceptions also performed well. Howe had specifically praised them before Trenton. But they were ineptly led. Their commanders disobeyed orders to build fortifications at Trenton and then failed even to send out any patrols. It apparently just never occurred to their commanders that anyone would attack them, much less that an army of 2500 or so would appear out of nowhere in the middle of a blizzard. Brave young men, including drummer boys as young as twelve, far, far from home.

@ Frederick: "Brave young men, including drummer boys as young as twelfe,far,far from
home."


"Kaspar Schmeck's long journey." A book about a hessian drummer boy. ;)

@ M.S.

"Kaspar Schmeck's long journey." A book about a hessian drummer boy."

Yes. Max Wedding's Das grosse Abenteuer des Kaspar Schmeck. But if the role of German soldiers in the American Revolutionary War is of interest to you, you'll find somewhat more reliable information in Friedrick Kapp's Der Soldatenhandel deutscher Fursten nach Amerika and Max von Eeelking's Die deutschen Hulfstruppen im nordamerikanischen Befreiungskriege, 1776 bis 1783, than in a book for children and teenagers.

Thanks for the book recommendations. Well I'm pretty interested in the 18th.century
history...and the early USA, Thomas Jeffersons realized "Utopia"!

It seems the discussion about the tasteless SPD Poster is over...well the SPD
isn't my party...and about the weird german illness called "Anti-Amerikanism". In my opinion they're just jealous, because they are no World- or Superpower. I know that
sounds very simple but I suppose that's really the truth!

@ M.S.

"Well I'm pretty interested in the 18th.century history...and the early USA, Thomas Jeffersons realized "Utopia"!

Yes. Jefferson has always received much attention, but his great rival Alexander Hamilton is, to my mind, a more interesting and important figure. Unlike the Virginia aristocrat Jefferson, Hamilton was just a penniless orphan emigrant from St. Croix, only 20 when the Revolutionary War started. During the war, von Steuben could communicate with the Americans only in French, and did so through Hamilton, who became a close friend. I'm not sure what there is in German on Hamilton, but if you want to learn more about him, you will enjoy Ron Chernow's recent Alexander Hamilton (Penguin, 2004). The children's book author, by the way, is Alex Wedding, not Max Wedding as I see I wrote.

"...the weird german illness called "Anti-Amerikanism."

Yes. Although, to be fair to the Germans, Americans must accept much of the responsibility for the illness. We produced an endless supply of anti-American junk entertainment and news for our own and foreign consumption. And we spread to the world a conformist culture of journalism consumption that made it possible for the anti-Americans to shape opinion. One in which people believe that they are well-informed because they've watched illustrated stereotypes on television and read skillfully- crafted strings of assumptions and cliches in newspapers and magazines. The most important thing happening in America now is that that culture is visibly and rapidly dying. Perhaps in time it will die in Germany as well.

@ Frederick: ..."produced an endless supply of anti-American junk entertainment"...

That's correct, the Hollywood Film Industry plays a leading role spreading anti-American
resentments not just in Germany...the picture of the Unided States drawn by the Los Angeles movie makers is deffinitly not a very positive one. Sure the producers wants to earn lots of bucks and a brainless bloody action movie about a group of cruel criminals
blowing up the city of Chicago is easier to sell as maybe a demanding movie about the life of Thomas Payne or George Washington.

I can't share the fear of this one US-teacher who said that Germany "will be a foe again". It is totally unfounded! Germany today and Germany 60-100 years ago are two
complete different nations! The relationship between army and citizens is completely broken. The army is unpopular, army service is unpopular, soldiers are unpopular and wars are unpopular too. I was in the Bundeswehr and so far as my own observation goes I have to say, that the Bundeswehr is a totally neglected Institution even under the reign of the SPD. The prussian spirit of Frederick the Great- and the imperial militarism of Wilhelm II. are dead and burried with the ruins of the third Reich...just the shadows of Hitler and Co. are still there but one day, they will go too. Today Germany is definitly not a serious menace, not for the own neighbour countries and especially not for the largest Worldpower in history of mankind: the USA. So dear US-citizens I recommend you all: STAY COOL!!!

I know it's a little late but I just received a response back from Mr. Schwanitz.
It's in German and my translation skills are not that good. Also, you would have to wait another 2 weeks for that to be done, so I hope posting it here in German is OK.

ich halte es für völlig legitim, wenn die Außen- und Sicherheitspolitik im Wahlkampf in aller Deutlichkeit thematisiert wird. Denn die Frage von Krieg und Frieden hat auch zukünftig für alle existenziellen Charakter. Gerade deshalb darf auch im Blick auf die damalige Entscheidung über den Irak-Krieg heute nichts beschönigt oder verharmlost werden. Dies gilt auch für bildliche Darstellungen des Irak-Krieges. Mit freundlichen Grüßen Rolf Schwanitz

Being an American, I'm a not a bit put off by that poster, but it's the kind of thing I'd expect from Germany.

The deaths of American soldiers and the sacrifice of life and limb made in the military actions in the past few years is nothing compared to the number lost fighting the you, Germany, in what is arguably the most one-sided and unjustified act of aggression in modern history. Don't tell us, don't tell anyone, that you have any moral authority on such matters. No other nation on earth carries the disgrace that Germany does.

Look down, Germany, for you are left only to hold your head in the deepest shame. For half a century, Germany, it us who defended you, and held back the aggression of the Iron Curtain at an expense of billions. We spent more still to rebuild you. This we did after we, the United States as well as other countries, the UK, Canada, Australia and even the Soviets, spilled such blood and treasure because of the actions of a government you elected.

Germany, when will you learn that the political extremism and shameless declaration of inferiority of others will always lead to trouble.

I wish I could say "You're welcome" for the generous Marshall plan. But seeing what you have become, I think it may have been a mistake to rebuild the fatherland.

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