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Comments

time for an Insta lanche folks!!!
send this on to Glenn Reynolds..
mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore!!!

It's just par for the course. There is no depth to which a German politician will not sink.

Please can any of you really be surprised by this?

This is typical of the attitudes within Germany. It is obvious that this is now totally acceptable in Germany. And there are those who still want to pretend Germany is an ally.

My email to "Schwanz"

The campaign poster depicting US flag-draped coffins is pathetic, sick, heartless, and somehow not even surprising--considering the tactics the SPD used in the last election. You can't win this election based on your OWN performance, now can you?

Then, there's the hypocrisy of the German government posting adds in several states in the US to create an illusion of a good relationship between our countries. Well, I for one, will not allow this to go unnoticed!

I'll tell you what's in the coffin that you and your party are driving the last nail into: The transatlantic relationship between Germany and the United States.

James W.
Proud ex-soldier of the United States Army

Sounds like a great time for an Insta lanche!

@James W..
from a former liberal (in the american meaning)..
I am an ami who lives in Germany.
Anytime I see an American serviceman, I stop and thank them.
Never thought I would be doing that, but I do.
Thank you as well.
steve

Yeah but Gerhard DID send soldiers - to Afghanistan. (And there are German soldiers in Iraq - the secret kind). I don't know if there have been any KIA among the German troops deployed but I'm sure there have been injured. Can you imagine how this diminishes THEIR service? Certainly this exploits American dead but it is deeply insulting to the Germans soldiers who have served and to those who continue to do so.

Up to this point I was ambivalent about who won the election. Now with the disrespectful display of Americans who gave their lives defending freedom, I now must say I hope the spd wins.

Based on the performance of the spd in the last 7 years, it is the government the Germans deserve.

This needs to be sent around - I hope the MSM is forced to pick this up

The government of Germany is running for re-election with posters showing dead US soldiers - running on a platform that they avoided such things for German soldiers

End NATO now.

We should never see flag-draped coffins coming back from Germany.

Germany is not worth the bones of one Kentucky grenadier.

If the US dislikes the anti-Americanism of the overwhelming majority of Germans, there is an easy way to rebut it: Withdraw US troops from German soil.

If Merkel doesn't manage to win a mandate for reform, and the US does not start taking steps to withdraw, the derision of most Germans for the US will be justified. They rightly judge that the superpower will ignore every insult just to maintain a military deployment that is no longer relevant to American security.

One senses that the Germans are on to something in their derision, when you consider that nothing has been done to reduce the US armed forces in Germany, though such thinking was articulated by Rumsfelt more than two years ago. As long as Washington indulges Germany's teenage politics, they Germans will keep acting like teenagers.

Ok, here we go: WSW June 19 2003: FOUR GERMAN SOLDIERS KILLED IN KABUL ATTACK
---------
The terrorist attack on a unit of the German army in Kabul two weeks ago, killing four soldiers and wounding 29, refutes the official propaganda of the German Social Democratic/Green government that the international peacekeeping force ISAF (International Security Assistance Force) will bring peace and political stability to Afghanistan. The opposite is the case.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/jun2003/kabu-j19.shtml
-----------
From the Guardian March 2002:
-------------
Three Danish and two German soldiers were killed while trying to defuse anti-aircraft missiles in Kabul, Germany's top military officer said today
[snip]
Germany has pledged a total of 3,900 troops for the anti-terror campaign, including the naval contingent deployed off the Horn of Africa, troops in Afghanistan and about 100 in neighbouring Uzbekistan.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,662919,00.html
---------------------
Germany is in bad shape when it implicity dishonors its own dead. And the SPD is now exposed as a bunch of lying, hypocritical scumbags.

This is such an outrage. How dare this candidate use those dead soldiers to get elected. Their has to be repercussions. That candidate has to held accountable personally.

As a US Army soldier stationed in Germany in the early 1980's, I came to love the country, the people, the food, and the beer. I felt I was doing something important in "deterring armed aggression in the Federal Republic of Germany".

Now, I just think it was a HUGE waste of time.

During the Cold War, we were nothing but pragmatic, realpolitik allies against the Soviets.

Germany and Germans have never been "traditional friends and allies" with us. We fought 2 world wars against their imperialist and fascist aggression within about 20 years of each other, and watched as they slaughtered MILLIONS of Jews, Slavs, Russians, and other Europeans.

Yet they DARE to have the gall to criticize America?

Pretentious hypocrites!

Former CNN Watcher.

I think you will see this happen. It will however not be the US who ends NATO but the members of the chocolate summit.

It therefore becomes less important who caused the end of NATO only as long as it ends as an organization.

Hopefully at some point an American Adminstration will find a work around for the logistical bases currenlty in Germany and a complete and total withdrawal can be made.

This will in turn hasten the unwinding of NATO and the security commitments the US currently must honor.

This surely from an American perspective would be one of the benifits of a victory by the spd.

I am ashamend to be German.

We know that the Bush administration has imposed a ban on Iraq casket photos - half a year after mission accomplished. For people outside the US, this ban seems rather ridiculous. Pictures showing coffins are abstract war photographs, you don't even see bodies.

Do you want to know what was sick? The "freedom fries" campaign, that was truly sick. But I was glad to read that Republican congressman Walter Jones, who was the brain behind this campaign, now deeply regrets it. He's got guts.

Markus
>>I am ashamend to be German.

Then do something you can be proud of - like write a letter to this scum.

NotForSale

Well, apparently you are at least for rent. It is not true that the Bush admin imposed a ban on Iraq casket photos. And you know it. It is clearly stated in the article you linked. That policy goes back to 2000 - the Clinton admin.

Liar.

You got another Instalanche!

@NotForSale..
so... if taking photos were banned, where did the SPD get the photos..
did they STAGE them? EVEN SICKER...

Freedom Fries was STUPID, but it isn't even in the same category as this,
why don't you just have the decency to admit it.

Of course the French have a government agency just to think up French words instead of using Anglo words.. if Freedom Fries is stupid (and I think it was), then that is even STUPIDER...

NotForSale, you have warped values.

@Marcus wrote "I am ashamend to be German"

You're not responsible when others speak in your name, unless you stand aside and do nothing about it. What you do can be as small as voicing your opposition on this forum, through speaking to friends and relatives, to voting the seven year failures out of office.

Americans in general don't hold groups responsible for the failings or sordid claims of individuals. Consider how Germans living in the USA are treated: as neighbors not as enemies.

I say, next time Germany gets frisky, we kick their butts and then make them keep France.
That would be fitting on so many levels.

I've been moderate in my tone thus far but I think it's time to reconsider. My screen name was meant as a joke. Now it corresponds to reality.

@Marcus..
if you take action you have no reason to be ashamed.
FIGHT BACK.
send emails..
VOTE FOR MERKEL.

@Marcus..
if you take action you have no reason to be ashamed.
FIGHT BACK.
send emails..
VOTE FOR MERKEL.

As an American soldier in Afghanistan, this is a disgrace to the principles of democracy. We are the soldiers who liberated Germany from the Hitler and now he uses my dead brothers and sisters in arms for political gain? God have mercy on his soul and all the idiots who vote for him. The worst thing is that I have to go back to Germany after a year in this place. I am dreading go back after seeing this.

@b

Thank you for your service. We pray for your safety.

fdcol63 wrote: "Germany and Germans have never been "traditional friends and allies" with us."

So it took you decades to find that out ? Congratulations , you're absolutly right. Germans and Americans have absolutly nothing in common, they're divided by culture, language and history. You're looking for friends and allies, try Great Britain, Israel, Kuwait and France.

And about the poster, it's a tasteless picture for a political campaign and it might offend Americans. I understand that, but I don't doubt for a second that American politicians, no matter what party, would not hesitate to offend Germans to win an election.
To keep Germany out of the Iraq war was the only popular thing Gerhard Schröder did in the past 7 years so it is just reasonable to use this issue in an election campaign. With the exception of a few people , who would not vote for the SPD anyway, no voter in Germany is offended by this poster. Germany is a very Anti-american country and this will not change no matter who wins the election. Germany has been an Anti-american country for the past 90 years , Angela Merkel can't change that. When it comes to German - American relations this election is irrelevant.

BTW Angela Merkel was the first candidate for chancellor who did not travel to Washington before the election. Even the SPD candidates Lafontaine ( 1990 ) Scharping ( 1994 ) and Schröder ( 1998 )were vistiting the White House a few weeks before the election. Political advisors told Merkel to stay as far away as possible from President Bush, so she had to send Wolfgang Schäuble to Washington to talk with Bush. One thing can be said about Angela Merkel, she is really a fast learner. She learned her lesson, being Pro-american is no way to gain popularity in Germany.

@b "disgrace to the principles of democracy"

Germany is second largest contributor of forces in Afghanistan, unbeknownst to many US Americans. This poster is not about Afghanistan, it's about Iraq. And then it's a poster from an election campaign in Germany. Such posters would not be used in campaigns outside Germany. Also, I'd be interested to hear which principle of democracy you had in mind, particularly.

@amiexpat "it isn't even in the same category"

It's different indeed. The SPD poster is directed at German people only, whereas the "freedom fries" campaign was meant as a direct insult to the French people.

@amiexpat "if taking photos were banned, where did the SPD get the photos"

The ban was imposed "half a year after mission accomplished" (quote from the first line of my own posting). Would it be too much of a trouble to ask you to read a posting before you answer it?

Now this must officially be the sickest thing I've ever seen as a campaign for an election. And I agree with Markus, that one makes em ashamed of linving in this country.

There are opinions on this site I consider debatable, but this is so appalling... And this coming from an SPD candidate, not from the NPD idiots or the sorts.

I don't think Schroeder agreed to this or saw it, but I think he'll well have to deal with this and how the local SPD f***ked up.

This certainly does nothing to better the image of Germans...
What the hell were they thinking?!

And I agree: This goes against *all* soldiers. Distasteful in the worst possible way.

NotForSale
>>The ban was imposed "half a year after mission accomplished"
Still lying.
Johannes Thust
>> Germany is a very Anti-american country and this will not change no matter who wins the election. Germany has been an Anti-american country for the past 90 years

Thank you! Believe me, I get so sick and tired of the "It's just the Bush administration" mantra, even when I provide documentary evidence to the contrary, I could spit tacks.

I appreciate your straightfoward, no nonsense remarks.

@NotForSale..
would it be too much for you to concede that there are rules of decency that were not followed here?

GEEZ!!!!
Freedom Fries was meant as a slap to Jacque Chiraq..
NOT at the french people.

Time for a flamer!!!!!!!!!!!!!
America is the only superpower right now..
and I will be the first to concede that it doesn't always that power wisely.
To use power wisely is a HUMAN problem..
NOWWW...
how did GERMANY behave when THEY were a world power ?
Hmmmm...????
in the same league as the USA? I DONT THINK SO!!!!!!
and YOU are the land of dichter and denker..
we are barbarians..
how many world wars did you need to start before you realized that Peace is the way?
couldn't you see your way clear to grant us stupid Amis a little patience?
I mean after all you only had to destroy all of Europe before you realized that peace is the way..
you are absolutely unbelievalbe NotForSale

@SeanM:
"Americans in general don't hold groups responsible for the failings or sordid claims of individuals. Consider how Germans living in the USA are treated: as neighbors not as enemies."
I really hope that this mantra finds its way into the heads of both "sides". I really do. You should expand that to Germans *in Germany* who are equally anti-anti-american, though.

@all:
Remember that Germans didn't sit together one evening to develop the idea for this sick poster... I also hope that it backfires. If this could get some coverage... But maybe it's too late, Friday evening already.

@all who responded to my first post: I have allready written an email to the guys who are responsible for that poster and I have written an email to the "Bundesgeschäftsstelle" of the SPD (the headquarter of the SPD). I ask them what they really think about that poster and if they want MY vote on next sunday they should give me an good explanation (of course I will definatly not vote for them...I am just curios what they think about it..I am sure the yiwll write back coz they highly need every single vote). I will post the answer letter here (if they will reply to it).

Well the remarks by Not For Sale are not surprising at all.

So the display of dead Americans for crass political gain is not insulting.

The one point you have proven and this proves is the left will do all that it can to retain power.

I hope they do. You deserve it. In fact, maybe you can get a red red green government. That surely will serve the germans best.

t.daeges
>> If this could get some coverage...
Two of us have posted links over at LGF. Hopefully Charles will see it at put it on the front page. THAT will get coverage, believe me.

Markus
>> have allready written an email to the guys who are responsible for that poster and I have written an email to the "Bundesgeschäftsstelle" of the SPD (the headquarter of the SPD).

Good. You know, I'm abiguous about writing myself. As an American, I don't want to engage in German politics - it could quite reasonably, I would think, be construed as sticking my nose where it doesn't belong.

Not that facts and reality seem to be important to Germans anymore. In fact, the only thing which seems to be important to them now is their social welfare state, for the rest of you here is a link of intertest.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10916FD3F580C758EDDAB0894DB404482

It details the visit of Angela Merkel to WDC. There she met not only the SECDEF but the Vice President as well as the POTUS.

Also during the POTUS trip to Europe in February of this year, she met the POTUS.

I just realized that the website with the poster is DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well..not the whole website..just the site with the poster....

But I dont want that! If they are respobnsible for that disgusting poster they should have at least the guts to show it...

So I made screenshot earlier...I will manage to find a server where I can upload it...

joe! Nice catch!

The German mass media have reported on this, both Bild (http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/news/2005/09/16/wahlkampf__pervers/wahlkampf__pervers__spd__usa.html) and SpOn (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,375062,00.html).

I am an American service member living here in Germany. I am very fond of this country, its culture and especially its people. I have been welcomed by each and every person I have come in contact with, and I have had the honor of making a few very good friends during my time here.

With that in mind, I cannot express how deeply saddened I am to see this photograph of my fallen comrades used for political gain in someone else's election. Its use is simply so wrong that it cannot be excused, explained or justified. There are just some things that we should not do to each other, and this is one of them. I cannot imagine the utter vacancy of simple human decency that led the creators of this poster to design it, and those who employed them to authorized its use. The men in those metal boxes are not objects. They are brave individuals who gave the ultimate sacrifice. They were in the midst of being returned to their farms, their towns and their families before being laid to a final rest. How desperately unfortunate then that someone chose to steal their one remaining thing of value - their dignity.

As for me, apologies from those who are not responsible are not needed, and the apologies of those who are responsible are not wanted. This is what it is; a very sad, unfortunate and unnecessary hurt.

Joe
Of course Merkel met with Bush in the past, but not after she had announced her candidacy. She will also meet with Bush after she becomes chancellor.
The point was she had to keep Bush and America out of her campaign . In past elections it was the usual procedure for a chancellor candidate of the CDU or the SPD to visit Washington in the weeks before the election. She had the time to meet with Chirac in Paris on July , 19.

Email to Rolf Schwanitz:
--
Your campaign ad showing US coffins and claiming Merkel "would have sent soldiers" goes beyond poor taste - it is an affront to all Americans. Remember that it was we who helped you rebuild your country after World War Two.

Who started that war, anyway?

You should apologize.

Email to Rolf Schwanitz:
--
Your campaign ad showing US coffins and claiming Merkel "would have sent soldiers" goes beyond poor taste - it is an affront to all Americans. Remember that it was we who helped you rebuild your country after World War Two.

Who started that war, anyway?

You should apologize.

Sorry for the duplicate.

Thrust,

I personally hope she does not have to meet with the POTUS again. I am hoping gerhard wins. I think he is just what the germans should have as a leader. It would appear that we agree with this.

I have no problems with the anti Americanism in germany. I think it is part of your national character to have to hate someone. It is now our time. So hate Americans all you want. I truly hope it makes all of you feel better.

@Pamela:

"You know, I'm abiguous about writing myself. As an American, I don't want to engage in German politics - it could quite reasonably, I would think, be construed as sticking my nose where it doesn't belong."

Please, do write ! This is not a matter of German politics anymore. It's an insult to another nation's forces and to all who have served (as you mentioned yourself, to german soldiers abroad as well). I have written to them, too, demanding a pubic apology. I have quoted some of the statements here. I believe it would add a lot authenticity if American citizens themselves expressed their anger.

@Cardinals Nation

The same applies to you. I would love to use your post in another mail to them, but I will not sink to the same depths as to politically exploit your statement. i think you should make yourself heard.

@amiexpat
from a former liberal (in the american meaning)..

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. Ditto here. I was of the long-haired, pot-smoking sort. :-)

@Pamela
(And there are German soldiers in Iraq - the secret kind). I don't know if there have been any KIA among the German troops deployed

As a matter of fact, there were pictures going around in the German media of a German special forces
soldier who had been killed in Iraq.

@NotForSale
Pictures showing coffins are abstract war photographs, you don't even see bodies.

It's about respect and honor--something I would expect to be extended to our soldiers from a true ally. But no, it's the same game, different election. Well, I'm sure the SPD can be proud to win votes in this manner. It's a Kodak moment.

Do you want to know what was sick? The "freedom fries" campaign, that was truly sick.

No, trying to equivocate this campaign poster with french fries is truly sick.

Thank you so much, Toby! Here's what I sent:
--------------------
Dear Herr Schwanitz,
I am made aware of a poster used in your campaign depicting flag-draped coffins of American soldiers. The text on the poster reads "She would have sent soldiers".

As an American, I am sickened by your abuse of another country's war dead for your own political gain. I am heartbroken for the families of the German soldiers who have given their lives in Afghanistan. You have implicitly told them their sacrifice might as well never have happened, that it was for naught.

Wait! German soldiers gave their lives in Afghanistan? How did that happen? Who sent soldiers?
----------------------------------

I feel much better

Maybe Mrs Angela Merkel could publish a picture showing Schroeder kissing the arse of Saddam Hoessein with a subtitle I love dictators.
I wander what the reaction would be?

Disgusting and shameless!

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