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Vielen Dank for the link to the Umfrage at Spiegel Online! I voted, and I hope we 'stuff the ballot boxes'.

I remember very well that Umfrage last year (I think it was with ZDF) that got "delete" because they didn't like the "positive responses".

Keep it up, Jungs!

" * Yes, London presented the better concept
* No, Paris deserved to have the games."

Why does London have to have the better concept to win but with Paris you just have to have the feeling that they deserved it? Are Spiegel suggesting that being anti-war earns you the games? What do you vote if you thought London had the best concept but that Paris deserved it?

Plus why is their no "I dont know" answer? or have all SPON readers read through all the plans, concepts and attended all the presentation. I guess SPON doesnt think they need to and that a "Blair = War Criminal" mentality is enough information to go on.

Exactly. Does SPON really think it's readers have thoroughly gone through the presentations? This is another stupid England vs. France, Blair vs. Chirac, Pro vs. Anti-Iraq war poll at its core. Don't expect SPIEGEL readers to think beyond that...

Are SPIEGEL readers really that Anglophobic? Very instructive.

Nonsense. Paris DID have the better concept and it was a surprise that London won.
Tradesports (that's where people put money where their heart is, not some silly online poll) had Paris leading London by 70:30 until the very end. Even most Londoners agree that it was a surprise.

tsts, wanna bias the result, which should mirror the opinion of the SPIEGEL readers?

Ok a little correction: The questions should have been the same, this way they are a bit suggestive.
A more objective poll would have read
Which city had the better concept?
Paris
London

Spiegel-Leser know more!

Congrats to London, Britain and Tony Blair! British optimism won over French arrogance. Definitely a reason to celebrate! I would have loved seeing Chirac´s face when he got the news...

@ Querdenker

I wonder if Chirac's charming comments about England and Finland had anything to do with the close French loss?

Ray D, I doubt that the IOC would change its ideas about a flawless presentation just because a lame duck president says something stupid.

I know that France is not in high demand here but Paris DID have the best presentation, it was their third and they didn't come across as arrogant at all. London bid for the first time. People think that Blair (who inspires far more sympathies than Chirac) did the better last minute lobbying.

We know that Germany won the WM2006 because of excellent (and maybe some shady) lobbying work.
I DO think Paris "deserved" the games and in 2012 Chirac would just be some bad memory.

But what do we know about what goes on behind closed doors.

Best games I have seen: Sydney, Barcelona and Munich (before the attack). I don't know if you remember Munich and the joyful atmosphere of the first week..I think we never had that again.

"I know that France is not in high demand here but Paris DID have the best presentation"

Well, Querdenker, here's the problem: That is your OPINION. And in this case, what we any one of us thinks doesn't really matter. What the IOC thinks DOES matter. And they obviously thought London had the best presentation. So I suppose Chirac and friends will have to put that in their collective pipes and smoke it.

Why is it that the Germans always seem to pick losers and by such large margins?

I sincerely apologize in advance to anyone for whom the Olympic games are deeply important and meaningful, but...

Who cares? Those games have been quite corrupt for years anyway. Most of the competitors can't really be called amataurs in any meaningful sense of the word. There is no universal love and joy displayed at the games. It's rather like the U.N. in that sense.

Sorry, I just can't get the concept, I guess. Though at the moment, France being frustrated over even a piddling thing does make a small warm feeling spread through me. But only a small one.

As the great American philospher Nelson Mundt said, "HA-ha."

I'm not a lefty and I don't like the French' foreign policy but I would have prefered Paris over London by miles. Why? Because of Ken Livingstone.

I got to agree with lost one - who cares about the olympic games. we got the world championship in soccer next year, and i really look forward to this!

Oh my god, lol, the Spiegel article on this is hillarious. I might be over-interpretive here, but for the fun of it: Look at the selection of pictures in the article: The poor child there, first "I am the king of the world!", happy and everything, then totally devastated! Anglo-Saxons win, children whine! When I saw the picture, I almost changed my mind and voted for "The French had deserved it" lol!

Then, the three pictures below. Caption reads: "London's triumph, Paris' tears." You get the grinning Brit, anglo-saxon business style, and the sad french-man, autonom/hippie-style. Haha!

The closing of the article I find especially rich:

"The gold-medal is Tony Blair's, Chirac's nuisance, who will be able to welcome the crestfallen French President this evening to the opening of the G-8 summit as splendorous host. Full in sports-spirit, of course, but policy knows no pardon - woe betide the defeated."

LOL. You got to love the last line.

I think the journalists at Spiegel really missed their true occupation as penny novel writers.

BTW, in German the closing sounds even richer in rhetorics. I translated "Chirac's nuisance" for the lack of a better word. In German, it is the common word "Quälgeist". Something like "The Ghost which torments him". I think "nettler" is another English expression for it.

A bit OT, but in a similar vein. One of the comments above mentioned this. Here's the link to an article with Jack, Vlad, and Gerd smoking and joking (at Tony's expense):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/05/wchir05.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/07/05/ixnewstop.html

My question is this: When England and France go to war, which side will Germany back?

I'm kidding, of course. As a full, participating member of NATO, we already know who Germany is treaty-bound to back...hehe.

" Spiegel Leser wissen mehr "

Bullcrap, they recite more, and often do not think for themselves.

I remember way back when, as students we would of course sit around and discuss things, and I was really impressed about one guy and all the stuff he knew, the relevant aspects included and how well he had it all arranged, all by hisself, it seemed.
One day I had to pass the time and I took up a "Spiegel" and read a bit. It turned out his contributions of dicussion the day before were practically word for word from the current "Spiegel".
I have kept an eye on this and have seen it done time and time again. " Just a question, did you read that in the Spiegel ? "
" How did you know !?"

Another interesting tidbit was an interview on TV some time ago and IIRC it was Augstein who was asked if everything in " der Spiegel " was true or at least fairly true. " No," he said, "we have our agendas and often things are stretched/bent alot" . Sinngemäß, not word for word.

But for most people " der Spiegel " is gospel.

Irena, where's the beef?

where is the name ?
no name
no talk

Since when is Spiegel left-to-left? Ridiculous. Even German Social Democrats are scarcely socialist by their agenda, and Spiegel has a fine history of balanced journalism regardless of who is running the show in then Bonn and now Berlin.

Sorry, mate, but not everything left-of-GOP is a commie. Not even in the commies´ books, and they ought to know, what?

Get it right next time.

@Karsten: Call it conditioning, mate. Like Pavlov's dog. Or a drug addict. You're conditioned. You've been exposed to so much leftie diatribe out of the German media that you've begun to believe that that is balanced and normal. Sorry, I agree with the OP -- Spiegel IS left of left.

@scout

Sorry, Doc, but you haven´t got the full facts here... I personally read Spiegel, but I read DIE WELT (which is staunchly conservative, and I religiously (if such a thing is possible) read DIE ZEIT, which is as centrist and as diverse as it gets. And believe me, I still find Spiegel moste highly balanced. They have never spared a social-democrat gouvernment from their criticism.

What would be your medication to help this alleged conditioning? Rush Limbaugh?

Confused,
yours truly

@scout

Sorry, Doc, but you haven´t got the full facts here... I personally read Spiegel, but I read DIE WELT (which is staunchly conservative, and I religiously (if such a thing is possible) read DIE ZEIT, which is as centrist and as diverse as it gets. And believe me, I still find Spiegel moste highly balanced. They have never spared a social-democrat gouvernment from their criticism.

What would be your medication to help this alleged conditioning? Rush Limbaugh?

Confused,
yours truly

I watched the news of London's victory yesterday as it unfolded. The CNN news reporter asked the French coordinator what his feelings were immediately thereafter and he started off by saying that [to paraphrase]

"...some have speculated that there was a joint American/British effort to have London choosen, but I don't think so..."

I like that, typical French. Trying to sound positive, but insinuating that there was a conspiricy against them. Why can't he just accept that Paris lost to London on their own merits. Full stop. I'm surprised the guy didn't insult Lance Armstrong in the same sentence.

Additionally, what about NYC being elimitated from the running? I smell rotton French cheese having played a role there ...

I watched the news of London's victory yesterday as it unfolded. The CNN news reporter asked the French coordinator what his feelings were immediately thereafter and he started off by saying that [to paraphrase]

"...some have speculated that there was a joint American/British effort to have London choosen, but I don't think so..."

I like that, typical French. Trying to sound positive, but insinuating that there was a conspiricy against them. Why can't he just accept that Paris lost to London on their own merits. Full stop. I'm surprised the guy didn't insult Lance Armstrong in the same sentence.

Additionally, what about NYC being elimitated from the running? I smell rotton French cheese having played a role there ...

@Karsten: I live in Germany, I have never listened to Rush, but I know of his reputation. So I can give you no prescription as far as that is concerned. Looks like this is a case of "What you see depends on where you sit." The fact that you call Die Zeit centrist is already telling. Die Welt is the closest thing to balanced that I have found in Germany, and you call it staunchly conservative. OK! I guess you would also call NYT and LA Times "centrist." Which is exactly the entire point of this Medienkritik Blog. We'll have to agree to disagree about where certain media fit in the political spectrum, but I am very encouraged by the fact that you at least read Welt. ;-)

I mill around in "die Welt" online a bit and I find them to be similarly biased as others.
An example :

wait a minute , this is interesting.
I just went to Welt online to pick up a quote on an "analyse" to the bombings, printed about an hour or two ago.... ! and it has changed in the meantime. It originally was titled like " Brits ripped out of their nice dreams by bombing " and one closing sentence was " the Brits are "verwirrt und verstört " , as if they were in panic and despair.

The "analyse" has changed now of 16:32 :
.......
" Terrors getroffen. Die Briten reagierten verstört aber auch gewohnt unaufgeregt."
Looky there !

Somebody at the Redaktion must have said , we better change this.

@Alex N.
Yes,the closing line was especially rich.

My German is not great, but I translated the word "Quaelgeist" as "nemesis" - sort of like Batman being the arch-nemesis to the Joker (actually "Batman=Blair, Chirac=the Joker" is a far better comparison than I had intended to make!).
FYI - as a native English (American, not British) speaker, the word "nettler" would have me scratching my head - it may be in the dictionary, but is rarely, if ever, used (at least in the US).

@Alex N.
Yes,the closing line was especially rich.

My German is not great, but I translated the word "Quaelgeist" as "nemesis" - sort of like Batman being the arch-nemesis to the Joker (actually "Batman=Blair, Chirac=the Joker" is a far better comparison than I had intended to make!).
FYI - as a native English (American, not British) speaker, the word "nettler" would have me scratching my head - it may be in the dictionary, but is rarely, if ever, used (at least in the US).

"FYI - as a native English (American, not British) speaker, the word "nettler" would have me scratching my head - it may be in the dictionary, but is rarely, if ever, used (at least in the US)." - Frank

Yes, in fact, I was scratching my head about "nettler", too, when I read it in the dictionary. ;)

"Sorry, mate, but not everything left-of-GOP is a commie. Not even in the commies´ books, and they ought to know, what?"

No, Karsten, they don't. When you look up the commies' record, at least in Russia, where it did reign surpreme, you will find out that they constantly killed and/or imprisoned each other for a varity of reasons. Mostly distrust. Each subtly different forces among them thought they were the only true commies, and for a long time they switched prison and government positions back and forth. Even when they have no opposition, socialists are incapable of even defining themselves. Same thing you could watch in the SPD now for several years and same thing that is the reason why WASG has been formed now. It's like a broken record, same old, same old. And Spiegel is just one more part of it.

Dear friends,

Paris has never ever been favourite - at least not for the London book makers!

For those who read German and French (links):

JO Paris 2012 - Der Jude Alex ist an allem schuld ... oder sind´s vielleicht die Londoner Buchmacher?

The blame goes to the Jew Alex ... or probably to the London Bookmakers ?

http://www.eussner.net/fundsachen_2005-07-06_13-24-02.html

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