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While I'm glad that the German government apparently does not wish to be represented in the manner that the diplomat in Mr. Stephens's tale behaves, I am curious as to how the are going to be able to prove or disprove what happened. After all, isn't it merely going to be a case of "he said/he said"? If anyone has any insight, perhaps you could share.

Still, the fact that they are investigating the incident is heartening. It would have been easy enough for them to just dismiss it out of hand.

The whole thing will turn into precisely that: a "he said/she said" deal.

A real investigation would look at other conversations and statements made by the diplomat. But they will keep the focus narrow in order to prevent any chance of a preponderance of evidence to accumulate, and quietly move the diplomat to another position, with a promotion to make sure he keeps his mouth shut.

Anyone who can't see that coming is fairly blind.

I'm liking Guido Westerwelle of the FDP more and more. First the IG Metall cover and now this... I don't know a lot about him yet; but, he seems to be one of the few German politicians with balls.

I´m not sure if he HAS balls but i know that he LIKES balls very much. :)

A German diplomat? Is that like a French superhero?

A German diplomat? Is that like a French superhero?

Guido kicks ass !

:-))

Well done Ray,

Many thanks.

New Tape: Al Zarkawi said the March 2003 war against Iraq "was unjust war by the head of infidelity, America." He called President Bush an "idiot" for announcing an end to major hostilities in May 2003, saying the war "has just started." Sounds like a statement by a German Journalist.

I object to his implied insult to poodles. Poodles are brave, loyal, and intelligent.

Anyhow, isn't the poodle a German breed originally?

good for the german foreign service!

I have to think that the behavior illustrated in the story probably really did occur, in which case this guy doesn't deserve a posting in America. So I'm glad he's gone, and I hope he stays that way.

Now, he will probably be posted to the EU's new foreign service, where he can join the "conterweight" crew... :/

There were two comments regarding the article about the German Diplomat in the WSJ. One felt, responding to a bully, while being a guest, may hold the risk of having to come down to the level of the bully. The other commentator did disagree. Leaving such outragous statements stand would be wrong.One would have to work some humor into the response. Wolfgang Ischinger is also shockingly arrogant and totally unsuitable for a representative for Germany. I have witnessed this several times at the FOX News station.Hopefully, Mrs. Merkel does some house cleaning.
Greta Baker

I hate to disagree with Ray, but I think there clearly is a place for 'Thomas P'. I can think of at least 3 places for a diplomat of his eminence. Cuba, Venezuela, or Zimbabwe. Possibly Sudan.

@ Don

have you considered Gitmo

conclusion: never talk with americans in private about what you really think or it will be in the newspapers the next day............looks like that americans became a bunch of traitors who can not even keep private conversations private!

some ally from italy :)

Having been "ambushed" numerous times in the same manner as the WSJ jouralist, I now make the point never to discuss politics in any European social setting. If asked why, I simply say that now that we are "strategic competitors", it is not appropriate. A comparison between Euro/US and China/US relations helps make the point. Normally this is enough to take politics off the table and put more congenial subjects up for discussion. It may even inspire some thought on the part of my fellow dinner guests.

As more I track back this Blog as more I think you are quite blind for your own media and critisize everything foreign which does not smell US-american...

Have you ever wondered why there are thousands of movies and crime-tv-series where the sheriff in every town is the despotic blind undemocratic idiot? With rights that even a King in the middle ages didn't have...

What if the chap is right? And was only telling the truth?

I mean: how can we trust you? Did you or everybody in the US ever stood up and said: Our country is not that stupid as the moviemakers put it... it is not that undemocratic... we are no murders who shoot first and ask later... as its typical in every us movie...

So what about your media?

Notiz von David: Ralle, das Thema dieses Blogs seit rund 2 Jahren ist "Anti-Amerikanismus in deutschen Medien". "Your media" sind für mich die deutschen Medien, denn ich bin Deutscher und lebe in Deutschland. Ray, mein Blog-Partner, ist Amerikaner, lebte aber für mehrere Jahre in Deutschland, und interessiert sich für das gleiche Thema. Warum also sollten wir uns um US-Medien kümmern? Dafür gibt es zahllose andere und sehr gute US-Blogs.
Im übrigen sehen US Medien gewiß keinen Anlaß, sich gegenüber der These "we are no murders who shoot first and ask later" zu rechtfertigen. Das sind typisch deutsche Phantasien der US-Wirklichkeit, die ob ihrer Lächerlichkeit aus US-Sicht keines Kommentars bedürfen.

@ Amihasser

Seems your IQ is > 20 but < 50 and that says everything about you and your arguments...

That guy Bret Stephens was talking with? He wasn't really a German diplomat. He was really Karl Rove.

explains why Karl is spelled the German way with a K

Someone needs to enlighten me.

This "diplomat's" behavior seems to be something that Germans, in general, do all the time: offend against the rules of hospitality.

I've experienced the kind of tirade the author of the German Chair article writes about: going into someone's house as an invited guest and being browbeaten for being an American and grilled on my country's policies.

What I find even more offensive is how many times I have had German guests come into my home for dinner or overnight stays and have had to listen to their criticism of my county, my country's politcs and my country's lack of culture, education and world knowledge.

It's such a commom occurance that I have come to realize that Germans and Americans have very different standards of hospitality.

Americans, in general, would never go into someone's home as an invited guest and proceed to criticize anything about the host's country, politics, education or culture. Never.

Not even the American soldiers now in Iraq would ever dream of going into an Iraqi's house as a guest and criticize the country or the culture while enjoying the host's hospitality.

And yet, Germans do this so frequently and so unthinkingly, that I suspect that Germans and Americans just must have very different standards of hospitality.

Germans and Americans have different standards of hospitality, so true, but that is not the only thing different between Germans and Americans.
I think Germans and Americans have absolutly nothing in common. That of course is the best thing about the Germans and the reason I like them.

@jean louis- I can't tell if you are a man ort a girl, but leave it to a fetid frenchman to embrace thier past conqueror as a modern friend of convenience only.
France and germany both continue to represent the dusty, horribly impotent from any perspective and failed society's of europe.
And a german feels they are more wordly than your average american simply because he can put on a speedo and hang out with kids in thailand each year? Other than that, the ignorance for the world and how modernity evolves that is coming from europe is a disgrace.
Now see if you can effectively hold elections in kosovo over the next decade, continue to shout at the US as you bury your pathetic heads in eachother's arses.

"because he can put on a speedo and hang out with kids in thailand each year"

That says a lot about you and your views, Pato.

Pato...

You are pushing it even by your standards...

Quite hypocritical to fire Thomas P., and sheer denial to take any satisfaction in this recall.
Europe is already gone over to the other side. There is no change of course, no redemption. They are doomed, so what does it matter that some one 'sliplomat' was caught expressing the nonsense that they all believe anyway? It doesn't change anything. He may be punished but it is for speaking his mind and getting caught, not for his actions.
Certainly, the truth should be told about their attitudes. Just remember these things when they come back to us, that they are just these has-been wolves and not the apologetic sheep they appear as.

Some don't call your alliance "frankreich" for nothing, Louie.

I have just started reading "The American Enemy" by Phillipe Roger.

With all the focus on-books/papers about America these past 200+++ years, I am coming to the conclusion your country is either mentally ill (obsession), or just plain creepy.

From a diplomatic point of view, it's essential that this guy be fired if the allegations are true. Not for being a bigot with a cob up his ass, but for being stupid and impulsive. Those aren't traits associated with professional maturity in diplomacy. If he can't come up with a convincing defense and yet isn't transferred or fired, then we can only conclude that this sort of barbaric behavior is official German policy. The behavior of Germany's NY ambassador isn't encouraging in that regard.

If this German diplomat's commentary is really representative of German attitudes, I don't see much of a future for US-German relations, other than on opposite sides of a battlefield someplace.

I think Germans and Americans have absolutly nothing in common. That of course is the best thing about the Germans and the reason I like them.

I too am glad that the Americans and Germans have nothing in common, but I find that reason to not like Germans. After all, who would want to be assosciated with the Holocaust.

And a german feels they are more wordly than your average american simply because he can put on a speedo and hang out with kids in thailand each year?

---------------------------------------------

I too am glad that the Americans and Germans have nothing in common, but I find that reason to not like Germans. After all, who would want to be assosciated with the Holocaust.

----------------------------------------------

And this blog complains about Anti-Americanism in Germany ? What a joke, no country in the world is more Anti-German than the United States and the comments on this blog are good evidence for it.
This is not a question of Democrats or Republicans, liberals or conservatives, left wingers or right wingers, Americans in general hate Germany and try to insult and dehumanize Germans whenever there is a chance.
Germans, regardless of their political persuation, should be aware of this and they should be scared. A country that breeds so much hate against Germany is a dangerous threat , especially when this country is armed with weapons of mass destruction.

@Tanja
>>especially when this country is armed with weapons of mass destruction

Nah. The last time we destroyed you we rebuilt you. We don't feel like rebuilding you anymore so we'll just let you destroy yourselves.

@Steven W.

I´m not sure if he HAS balls but i know that he LIKES balls very much. :)

I just did a little background check on Guido Westerwelle. I had laughed so hard at my ignorance that I had tears running down my face. I honestly had no idea...not that I have a problem with him being gay. For me, it's all about getting the job done.

Tanja says:

"This is not a question of Democrats or Republicans, liberals or conservatives, left wingers or right wingers, Americans in general hate Germany and try to insult and dehumanize Germans whenever there is a chance.
Germans, regardless of their political persuation, should be aware of this and they should be scared. A country that breeds so much hate against Germany is a dangerous threat , especially when this country is armed with weapons of mass destruction."

Maybe you should switch to decaf.

americans hating germans? that 's a good one..
how much AMerican press coverage did Schroeder's visit get? NONE!!
if he (and Germany) was hated, the press would have been all over him.. but he (like Germany) is becoming IRRELEVANT.. AMerica doesn't hate Germany, they just ignore you..
besides I thought the Amis were 'weltfremd'.. we don't even know where Germany is.. how could we hate you, when we don't even know where or who you are?

With 25 percent of the American population having some sort of German ancestry, I find the
image of Germany hatred in the USA laughable..

I have heard so many similar statements coming from Germans both in the US and in Germany that this story is hardly surprising. Just an example of what Germans say all the time, both to each other and anyone else who will listen. I have been to small villages in India where local boys repeat all the anti-American dribble previous German visitors have passed on. So now the German government will get someone more adept at hiding or downplaying how Germans actaully feel.

I am the great-grandson of German immigrants. They came to this country with nothing and made a decent life that I enjoy to this day. When modern Germans tell their lies and distortions about the people of the USA, it is more a reflection on them, and how low German society has fallen, than on Americans.

I have heard so many similar statements coming from Germans both in the US and in Germany that this story is hardly surprising. Just an example of what Germans say all the time, both to each other and anyone else who will listen. I have been to small villages in India where local boys repeat all the anti-American dribble previous German visitors have passed on. So now the German government will get someone more adept at hiding or downplaying how Germans actaully feel.

I am the great-grandson of German immigrants. They came to this country with nothing and made a decent life that I enjoy to this day. When modern Germans tell their lies and distortions about the people of the USA, it is more a reflection on them, and how low German society has fallen, than on Americans.

Beg to differ. Most Americans don' think about Germans overmuch. When they do, the impression tends towards the positive. In fact, many are like myself in that when we discover how hateful many Germans have become (or perhaps always were) towards us, we are hurt. Because we actually thought that we were friends. I guess freeing someone from the Nazis and protecting them from the Soviets is "old news". Huh.

This is not a question of Democrats or Republicans, liberals or conservatives, left wingers or right wingers, Americans in general hate Germany and try to insult and dehumanize Germans whenever there is a chance. Germans, regardless of their political persuation, should be aware of this and they should be scared. A country that breeds so much hate against Germany is a dangerous threat , especially when this country is armed with weapons of mass destruction.

No, the sentiments you see here are reflective of a small minority of Americans who have become disgusted as they become aware of the hateful sentiments Germans have had towards the US, but kept hidden because we were paying for your defense and rebuilding and providing you with markets. Frankly, most Americans are either positively disposed or indifferent to Germany and Germans, and that is because they are woefully ignorant of German attitudes because our media is uninterested in reporting on this. This is largely a result because of the multicultural nature of our society which discourages picking on particularly nationalities or ethnic and religous groups. If most Americans were to be educated about German anti-American attitudes, I'm sure a lot of Americans would develop reflexively anti-German attitudes and develop a considerable amount of contempt for "bad-weather friends" like Germany. And that would mean trouble for the German economy, which is no doubt why the German government recalled the diplomat.

besides I thought the Amis were 'weltfremd'.. we don't even know where Germany is.. how could we hate you, when we don't even know where or who you are?
-----------------------------------------


Americans did not know where Iraq is or what the difference is between Iraq and Iran. They even make songs about their ignorance . I'm sure you know Alan Jackson's 9/11 No.1 country tune "Where Were You When the World Stopped Turning?" with the refrain:

"I'm just a singer of simple songs.
I'm not a real political man.
I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you
The difference in Iraq and Iran."

So it doesn't matter if Americans know where Germany is, it is enough if CNN knows where it is and why America has to attack this freedom hating country.
Americans don't care if their airforce bombs Iraqis or Germans, hajjis or krauts, sandniggers or huns, ragheads or squareheads.

And about Schroeder, I think he was wrong opposing the Iraq war the way he did. It is not a good idea to provoke Americans. Americans are armed and dangerous, they don't know what they do and why they do it, they only know they have to do something against somebody and Germany could become the next target of their aggression.
" You're either with US or against US " is their rule and Schroeder risked the security of Germany when he opposed the American president.

It is not a good idea to provoke Americans. Americans are armed and dangerous, they don't know what they do and why they do it, they only know they have to do something against somebody and Germany could become the next target of their aggression.

If you are German, your attitudes towards Americans are reflective of the typical German bigotry, ignorance and arrogance that posters on this blog find offensive. If more Americans were to become aware of the contemptuous and bigoted attitudes of Germans, they would wonder why we wasted our soldiers and tax dollars on rebuilding and defending Germany from the end of WWII to German reunification and the fall of the Warsaw pact.

" You're either with US or against US " is their rule and Schroeder risked the security of Germany when he opposed the American president.

And when has the US threatened Germany? German media/propaganda is really dumbing down the German people and filling their heads with irrational and paranoid ideas.

I was going to respond to Tanja, but then I thought about it.
Why waste my time with just another example of the Great European Unwashed, desperately jealous that she wasn't born American?

Nyetkulturno.

@DaveP

Tanja sounds a great deal like the US left. They didn't really advance their cause or demonstrate their understanding by calling everyone who didn't vote for Kerry a bunch of religious zombies.

The less those who know nothing about the US understand the US, the less they will be able to keep up. Eventually, they will become irrelevant. I'd almost rather a marxist replaced Schroeder in September. The problem will be resolved for the US eventually, and that is probably the quicker route.

"You're either with US or against US "

I love people that bother to quote things, and have it be an incorrect quote. Nice.

If the German people disagree with American policy so much, then why do they allow us to station our troops in their country? Why are the members of NATO? Why don't they demand us to leave? When the anti-American pitch got so loud in Korea, Donald Rumsfeld reduced the American forces by 7,000 troops and threatened to move the rest to Pusan on the southern tip of the Korean peninsula. Funny thing happened. The demonstrations stopped, the president who was elected on an anti-American platform stopped with the demagoguery, and the troops stayed in place. One suspects the same thing would happen in Germany. After all, if the United States was not subsidizing the German and European militaries, some of those lovely government social programs would be lost. If Americans want to keep the anti-American pitch down (or get more sympathetic right leaning parties elected) the easiest thing to do would be to shut down some German military bases and threaten to leave NATO. After all, shouldn't we now let the Russians have their own "sphere of influence"?

Americans don't hate Germans or Germany, they don't even think about Germany any more than they would a crack in the sidewalk. Americans do like light German beers!

@Tanja
>>They even make songs about their ignorance

LOL! Ok, so now we get to define Germans by Horst Wessel? One of your so-called erudite diplomats invited an American and his wife into his home for a private function and proceeded to insult his guests and their country that it is his job to build ties with. When his stupidity and venality are duly noted by Americans with the utter contempt they deserve, that shows Americans to be anti-German.

For far too long German politics and culture have taken advantage of German irrelevance in American thought to construct a false story of the U.S. It assuages Germany's irrelevance. It distracts from the hard work of figuring out where you've gone wrong AGAIN. It alleviates the requirement that any civilization worth the appellation have the moral and political courage to not outsource the physical defense of its own people. It excuses the necessary capacity for shame when outsourcing to plumbers from Poland brings more outrage and fear than the institutionalized denial that a state's first responsibilty is to protect and defend.

So whinge away Tanja. Heaven forbid nobody slaughters 3000 German civilians in a single day as the coup de grace of years of provocation. If it does happen, it won't have been done by the 'Amis' your flacid, shabby arguments are directed against. Have a wonderful time figuring out what the fuck you do next, when your military couldn't even transport itself to Aghanistan.

So, while you toss your cultural and political capital convincing yourself that the U.S. is the font of all evil, danger, and fear, we're off killing Islamofacists - lots and lots of them.
Sleep tight, Tanja. Almost every American knows that if you do, we're a big part of the reason.

Ah yes, the American troops stationed in Germany. If I had my way, there would be an immediate withdrawl. I mean, like, overnight. One morning, the Germans that lived near the base would wake up and there would be nothing but pipes sticking up from the ground where the base was. And then they can do with the land what they'd like. EVERYBODY wins.

You know. Except the Germans that work on the base. They'd kind of lose. But they should be willing to make such a sacrifice for their countrymen. Besides, what's a few more people on the public dole anyway?

BTW, if my posts sound bitter, that's because they are. Not because I "hate" Germany or Germans, but because some people that I care for a great deal live in Germany, and still are incapable of acting rationally and politely when it comes to political things.

Germans are the largest ethic group in America.

Happy 4th of July!!!!!!! I love America!!!

Thank you, David and Ray, for having built (?) this bridge of friendship between Germany and the US!


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