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Popular Mechanics debunks a couple of 9/11 myths. More myths about the how than the who, but useful anyway.

Following the link to the show, you get the synopsis of the show. It starts out with the following paragraph:

"Völlig verängstigt taucht eine junge Frau im Kommissariat von Inga Lürsen und Stedefreundauf. Nach einer langen Nacht, kurz bevor ein Täter endlich gestehen will, platzt sie mitten in das Verhör. Der Täter schweigt wieder."

What were the cops doing to the accused? Sounds like they were robbing him of his sleep to get a confession. Thats all the proof I need to show that Germans torture their prisoners.

Problem is, some Germans already do believe 9/11 was Bush's plan alone. Not only in fictional TV-shows. Their quoted proof: M.Moore. And they really meant it seriously.

I like EABinGA's comment, hehe.

By that logic, couldn't one say the German Foreign Ministry is responsible for the 9-11 attacks? Letting Mohammed Atta live in Hamburg and educating him in campus radical-think falls into the same sort of attribution, doesn't it?

the problem with Germany may have little to do with the regime in the long run. the german media once again demonstrate their inability for independent and critical thoughts. not sure much can be done about it. could it be that they believe the german people so gullible?

""""""could it be that they believe the german people so gullible? """""

Germans will believe whatever a "man of authority" tells them ... as "men of authority", news hosts and commentators, actors, singers, "documentary-filmers" à la Mickey Moore, just about anyone who got a weird enough message qualifies.

And the bigger the lie, the easier it is swallowed.

There are many urban myths that qualify as conventional wisdom in Germany, especially among people under 30. That the 1969 moon landing was faked goes without saying.
This is very ironic; I just recently had a long drawn out debate/argument over the moon landings with a foreign exchange student from Denmark, who lives with my sister. He asserted that it was entirely faked and that his proof was that if America had gone to the moon, we'd still be on the moon. But then he also asserts that there are absolutely no homeless people in Denmark, which just a little research will show is not the case.

It makes you wonder if Europe is really worth saving.

The fable about "Bush planned the 9/11" is the result of German post Hitler paranoya. I haven't seen any U.S. media who dared to publish this nonsense. They refused to do it out of fear to lose all future credibility. The fact that German media can publish such a story without fear of repercussion proves my point above.

As far as the moon landing goes, I was a member of the NASA launch team under Wernher von Braun at Cape Canaveral 1967-1971. I can assure you that the Saturn V rocket was no fake project. It was not only powerful enough to get the Apollo capsule to the moon but shake up a good part of the State of Florida during its takeoff. ;-)

The only people who still doubt that here are members of the "Flat Earth Society of America."

Peter P. Haase
Boca Raton, Florida

It makes you wonder if Europe is really worth saving

I worry that Europe has, by and large, become both impotent and willfully ignorant -- the latter, because it hides their shame over the former.

I am pretty pessimistic about the continent. And to the degree that those attitudes have followers here, I'm pessimistic about the future in general.

Now that we're into bashing Germans for their gullibility and other racial deficiencies soon to come, let's recall that Americans have more German blood coursing through their veins than any other ethnic group. So the problem is not the German people. The German culture? Perhaps.

The U. S. conducted one of the most thorough, non-authoritarian, cultural re-educations ever attempted on the Germans from 1942 to 1947. Unfortunately, the Russians got to conduct the authoritarian one. But either way, cultures are resilient and persistent as David Hackett Fischer demonstrated in Albion's Seed. That is why no one knows or minds that there is so much of that nasty German blood in America. It should also make us stop and think about what we need to do to keep the world safe for Americans when German culture also demonstrates such resilience. Will Iraqi culture?

@Norman
>>Americans have more German blood coursing through their veins than any other ethnic group. So the problem is not the German people

I suppose you meant well, but that is a blatantly racist point of view.

I've always thought Hitler was an aberration. I'm beginning to think I may be wrong.

Hey guys,

I still wanted to watch that episode! Now you ruined it for me!
Please put up a spoiler warning ASAP before you do any more damage!

Thanks so much.

Is it worth pointing out that "Tatort" is a TV show ? It's not a documentary, doesn't pretend to be a documentary, not even a pseudo-documentary of the Michael Moore kind. A TV show.

Kind of like "Law & Order." The one that got Tom DeLay's U-trou in a bunch a few weeks back with their 'reality-based' / real-life extrapolation.

Then again, back in February 2001 Fox TV aired "Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on the Moon?" The whole fake lunar landing theory - on US television, no less !

Then again, "Capricorn One" was a feature-length film about a conspiracy related to a Mars mission. Hit the US theaters waaaay back in '78.

Then again, "JFK" had plenty of conspiracy threads woven throughout. US origin, too, if I recall correctly.

By the twisted logic exhibited here, the US (even right-wing) 'media' has been hoodwinking America by conflating reality with all of these stories. Big plot, very nefarious.

Oh, sorry, that is what passes for conventional wisdom in these parts. Media bad, people guileless.

Guess the cabal of Danish moonbats, German communist fascists, and US anti-government, Area 51 conspiracists is far more organized than anyone imagined. Their media backers will be financing the black helicopters coming to your neighborhood soon.

Cheers,

Note from David: "Tatort", for our non-German readers, is indeed a movie series. We said so in the posting. But ever from the start of the Tatort series more than 30 years ago, the plots frequently try to convey political messages, most often of a politically correct left-wing type.

To assume that "Scherazade" - jubilee Tatort number 600! - is just another movie, without political implications and consequences, is simply naive.

@Peter Haase: Pleased to meet you... my father has worked in the U.S. space program since 1955. Among other things, he designed the original power systems at pads 39A/B. I work for a contractor at MSFC myself; I'm currently doing flight software for ISS.

It's doubly ironic, isn't it, that of those German youth who think the moon landings were faked, it was some of their own ancestors who had a substantial role in making those moon landings happen?

@Rofe

There's a big difference here:

Americans criticising the American Gov't establishment are welcome, for all Americans share a fear/distrust about government per se (their's or anyones). Foturnately the US government is smaller realtive to it's people than, say, the German government. Additionally, I don't sense Germans having a feeling of distrust of thier government. Rather ironic considering the German government's past abuses of power over the population. Instead, my ears are full of the rantings of the beneign charitible "services" that their govt bestows upon its people...

Also, don't 1/3 of German youth claim that 9/11 was a CIA plot whose response would allow a belicose president the casus belli for war mongering? It seems that ARD likes to play with poplular "mis-perceptions."

Wasn't it also ARD that played Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11 the night prior to the US Election? Or was that another station. In either case, following that volksverhetzung, I opted to spend 50 pounds a month and get SKY TV illegally here in Germany. The GEZ will get their tax from my cold dead fingers...

James,

Why should Germans fear their government ? For that matter, why should Americans fear or mistrust their government ? The respective governments have been duly elected, democratically, and the safeguards are in place to balance powers. A healthy dose of skepticism might be in order, given what happens to most politicians the closer they come to the grail of power, but skepticism is as far as it goes with me.

And, no, I haven't forgotten that Hitler was democratically elected back in '33, but please don't try to convince me that the US or Germany are potentially one election removed from dictatorship.

But how does that man's name manage to come into every thread on this site ? Present-day Germany, whatever one thinks of its values and its relationship with America, is not a thin veneer over the Third Reich !

Back to the topic at hand: I don't doubt that ARD (or ZDF or RTL or anyone else selling ad time) would pander to the public's bad taste. Big Brother, et al are proof of that. ARD broadcast a Krimi in dubious taste. Wow, I'll bet that's a first.

Cheers,

Notice to all German moon bats:

If you believe that the Apollo program was faked and staged on a lava field in Arizona, then please read Peter Hasse's message above. Peter is a German immigrant, and worked on Werner Von Braun's team during the Apollo launch series. Peter can verify that there was indeed an Apollo program.

If any of you believe that the real 9/11 pilots ended up in a Hotel room in Frankfurt, I can introduce you to the widows of the 9/11 pilots. My law Partner represents one of them.

@rofe: While "Tatort" is clearly a fictional show, it normally has no other fictional elements than the crime itself: it plays in real cities, even in real police buildings and "Tatort" often refers to current political events. Furthermore, the young woman presents several elements of popular 9/11 conspiracy "evidence" (which the ARD "journalists" researched obviously on conspiracy web sites) to the male police officer, which is doubtful in the beginning but is convinced by these "facts" at the end.

I expected from the ARD which cites its "educational value" everytime the fees are raised, to dissolve the conspiracy at the end (which would have made a good show), but, in sharp contrast to every other of the 599 past episodes this crime remains unsolved and the bad guys get away with it.

Combine this with the fact, that the ARD is supervised by representatives of the state, the churches and the trade unions, and the fact, that many Germans believe in conspiracy theories, and it does not sound that innocent any more.

ts,

For Pete's sake, 'Law & Order' has essentially the same format. So does 'West Wing'. Real places, thinly disguised real events, and real events themselves. By the yardstick being brandished here, any Islamist worth his salt would be justified in interpreting American intentions by West Wing plot lines (assassinating an Arab foreign minister, Israeli defense minister shot down in retaliation, etc.) Is the 'West Wing' Volkverhetzung ?

If Germany, or whatever you're refering to, isn't innocent, please spare us the suspense and tell me what's up. No innuendo about the Hitler youth, or Marx, or the SS or any other conspiracy that one cares to trot out. Just what is it that Germany / Germans are 'uninnocently' up to and with whom are they up to it ?

Cheers,

Part of Bush's genius is his ability to keep Germans ignorant with stories such as these. America obviously wasted its sons and national treasure in keeping Germany free. Should have let the Soviets have the place.

Hear, hear PacRim !

Same with South Korea, Greece, and wherever else. Everyone's against America. Poor, misunderstood America.

Only place that sees the world as it is, only place that has its priorities straight. Can't the rest of these damn heathens see that they're gonna have a WalMart in their neighborhood eventually, so it may as well be soon. Then we can all blacken some slabs o' beef, guzzle Bud and watch Nascar together.

Ingrates.

Cheers,

@ ts
>... it plays in real cities, even in real police buildings ...

LOL, did you really believe the Ludwig-Erhard-Haus in Berlin is a police building?

Talking about being gullible, tststs...

PacRim Jim,

It's Rove. Rove also killed Elvis.

@Lou
>>Rove also killed Elvis.
Elvis is dead?! Damn!

I could certainly see a Law and Order show about a topic where someone believed in a conspiracy theory - even a 9/11 theory

What would not happen is the show supporting this theory

Instead - L&O would make it clear this person was a nut ( missing Detective Briscoe "explaining" things to such a wierdo )

What the German version seemed to have done is lend credibility to the conspiracy theories

If I have that correct then please Rofe spare me the "but the West Wing has "real world" plots like the arab assasinated"

I am fine with that

What I am not fine with is presenting a story that treats 9/11 conspiracies as having a foundation in fact

Its what I would expect on arab TV frankly

Was the girl in the Tatort episode a German?

Sad. Just sad. Some days I think we're gaining ground over there and some days...

As far as the "Is Europe worth saving?" question that seems to be floating around, the economist has a great article on it and I tend to agree, the answer is yes. Reasons:

1) These sentiments are an outlet for the frustration Germans feel beacause of their impotence.

2) We'd get to stop bankrolling their defence

3) When they felt like it they could actually contribute to international military operations.

4) More German soliders means less pacifists, no matter how you slice it.

Anyway, maybe Merkel will push things in the right direction, although I wouldn't count on more than a nudge.

The old adage applies here "das was nicht sein darf, kann nicht sein" that "which is not allowed to be, cannot be"

How could one possibly assume that there are terrorists out there who want to destroy freedom and who want implement their own flavor of totalitarianism.

I love watching German Krimis, expecially Tatort.

The number of Germans who approached me and told me they thought Bush was behind 9/11 was depressing. And not one of them was under 30. Those who think this way want to believe America is evil. I am glad that I do not live there anymore. I just hope that things change after this election.

Bush was behind 9/11 just as he was behind the first World Trade Center bombing, and all subsequent terrorist attacks which happened on a regular basis, the dude really thinks in the long term obviously. Makes total sense. Who are these retards that believe this malarky?

Europeans know they have painted themselves into a corner and now all they can do is name call. I don't think it's possible for Germans or the French or any European to understand how little anything they do matters to us.

Here's was a great take off on the Aesop's fable The Ox and Frog.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1415289/posts

The gist of it is that a frog wanting to get the attention of the ox, keeps puffing himself up, but no matter how much he puffs up, the ox still doesn't notice him. In the end, the frog puffs himself up so much that he explodes and dies . . . and still the ox doesn't notice.

That about says it all.

Aside from the obvious lack of taste in airing such a program, and the equally obvious intention to propagandize; can we not at least assume that most of those Germans watching can tell the difference between fiction and non-fiction?

@Swede
>>can we not at least assume that most of those Germans watching can tell the difference between fiction and non-fiction?

Well, reading Trish's post, I'm not so sure.....(and she is hardly the only person I've heard that from)

"""can we not at least assume that most of those Germans watching can tell the difference between fiction and non-fiction?"""

Don't bet on it. Over the last 4 years, I've heard ALOT of these wacky theories.

But, to be fair, I've met Americans that still believe professional wrestling is real.

But then if they had blogs in Germany, the main character could upload the photographic evidence and show it to millions around the globe within minutes. Instead, the American controled German media wouldn't publish the photographs, forcing her to flee to an Arab nation where the photos are effectively, forever burried. And let's not forget the American agents who have no dificulty fooling the German police services, by blending in with the local population with their superior language skills or something like that.

Tatort is piss.
Been so for the last 10 years.
Same sterotypes, same general plot, same PC crap every time.

Rofe and Swede,

the only way that you could really say that Hollywood and the European TV stations' fictional writing teams are equivalent (no more and no less) would be if the latter tried -- at least once in a while -- to make a movie about, say, government officials in Berlin or Stockholm talking peace while supporting the autocratic activities, sometimes genocidal, of (and making money from) a dictator such as Saddam Hussein, Robert Mugabe, or Fidel Castro.

Other European stories besides oil-for-peace that would parallel JFK, Capricorn One, etc, might include the lies (sorry, the exagerrations) behind Europe's vaunted social system or the benefits third-world autocrats derive from the antics of NGOs.

But you don't see much of that, do you now?... Do you?! And when was there a talk show devoted to the subject that didn't end up lambasting Washington, America, its capitalist system in the final analysis?

Although willing to give a token hand-wringing to such problems, European viewers would hardly be prepared to see such shows (and European writers to write them) and to even consider those possibilities, given that that would take away from the necessary struggle against American neocons and capitalism…

Typical (angry) Euro-reaction when mentioning one of the above:
"What is your goal?"
i.e., why bring it up, how could you?

Those clever Germans! They have it all figured out! Hopefully they'll address the Kennedy assassination next...

I tried to watch it but found the plot so confusing and absurd that I fell asleep and when I woke up the girl was walking around on a Moroccan square and that was it.

So I missed the final truth about 9/11.

ARD is a GERMAN TV station, Tatort is a GERMAN TV show. It is produced to entertain GERMANS not Americans.

We don't sell this show to America, only to 18 other irrelevant countries, some of them in the Middle East.

Since we don't want to offend our friends there Americans have to be the villains.

Look that is just like in all the American Cold War movies, where the Russians always were the bad guys. Americans are the new Russians, nobody likes them.

Well maybe the Israelis, but they don't like GERMAN entertainment much anyway.

Bashing Bush and his gang is a safe bet for a GERMAN TV show, the GERMANS love it and in the rest of the world nobody will complain.

Amihasser is warning us? LOL
If I were a psychologist or a profiler, I would bet that he/she is:
1) On Arbeitslosenunterstuetzung
2) Mad about it
3) Used to work for a capitalist American company who overpaid him and let him/her go.
4) Belongs to the Neo-Nazis
5) Can't afford enough Beer to pass the time.
6) Believes that all Auslaender should leave
Germany(Especially Americans)
7) Doesn't give a sh*t about Job losses due to
American Companies closing down and moving
to greener pastures. (They are)
8) Misery likes company.
9) Gets his education from the German TV
programs.
10)Probably will never be able to retire due
the lack of discipline and braincells

etc., etc.
Please don't delete any of his/her postings. I do need a laugh every once in a while.

Guys, could you please cool down? It's just a simple movie. Not the best Tatort I've seen so far but not a bad one. (And not a typical Tatort. The look, sound and plot was very different.)

The great thing of this Tatort was that you could interprete very much. Is the girl a simple crazy drug-addict hunted by dealers or something like that, or are the things she tells true? And so on. Many questions were left unanswered (that's definitly not typical for a Tatort), and the viewer is left alone with his doubts. The link to the reality, the really existing conspiracy theories made the movie even more exciting, and it's a big surprise in the end when it turns out that the questions of the viewer are not answered.

But it's a movie. In the real world (mainstream-)media (such as nearly all newspapers, TV Shows like Spiegel TV etc.) already showed - some time ago - that and why the conspiracy theories are all wrong. As far as I can see it's common sense that there isn't anything like a conspiracy. Nobody I know thinks that there was any conspiracy. Some crazy guys may think so, but, hey, there are always some crazy guys.

The dimwits never stop! However, there are signs of life of life coming back to Europe as demonstrated by the French and Dutch people. So long story short, the malcontents are on the losing end of the stick.

-- Americans are the new Russians, nobody likes them. ---

Nobody ever liked US.

Hezbollah wins many many seats in Lebanon. So much for the notion that Anti US sentiment is only harbored by the radicals, and that the spread of democracy in the Middle East will bring sympathy and kinship with the US. Quite the contrary, hm? :-) It appears the Lebanese people can also be critical of US policies.

I think it really must be Stern, IG Metall, and the Tatort that made this happen.

Note from David: randlose, do we have another sarcasm day? Seems you have an irresistible attachment to this blog. Talk to your psychologist...

I have to agree with americanbychoice - I wish you guys would leave amihasser's posts up. I really get a kick out of them.

@randlose
The events and characters in the 24 series are all fictional. Jack Bauer does not work for the U.S. government and no nuclear bomb was detonated just west of L.A. The Tatort episode in question refers to an event -- the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon -- that actually did take place. Well, maybe you and a mess of Europeans believe that they didn't take place, but they did. Furthermore, the Tatort episode specifically implies that the Bush administration, which I believe you will agree does in fact exist, was behind the attacks. So there is a huge difference between the fictional entertainment of 24 and the Leftist incitements of Tatort.

It has been fart frigging cold in Germany since January. It has been raining, it is cold, it is windy and cold or just cold. Once in a while a sunny day pops up to taunt the Mensch , but then it rains again and is cold. Its June by now, but it is still winter.
Excuse the blasphemy, but could this be a Devine way of saying ........

@beimami
"the Tatort episode specifically implies that the Bush administration, which I believe you will agree does in fact exist, was behind the attacks."
Does it? You can interprete that but I think this Tatort episode doesn't imply anything. It gives some hints, here and there, not more. That makes the episode exciting. It provocates. It let's you think "How can they ...". That wouldn't be possible with a fictional event. That's - as I already wrote here - the special touch of this episode.

Isn't the really ugly conspiracy theory here that the german left (whoever that is) has taken over the ARD and that they made their own movie for propaganda issues?

Note from David: Anyone who watched this Tatort episode has to agree that the script conveyed - and was meant to convey - the message of the Bush family's sinister dealings in connection with 9/11. There is no other possible interpretation. To suggest otherwise is an insult to the well known left-wing author of the script. There wasn't room for "...this Tatort episode doesn't imply anything. It gives some hints, here and there, not more. That makes the episode exciting. It provocates. It let's you think "How can they ...". "
Nice try anyway, Michael. Next: "Michael Moore doesn't really want to insult Bush".

Being an american that has lived in Germany since his birth, I have been able to track the development of the German media in the recent years. Though it is true that "Tatort" is a fictional TV show the episode "Scheherazade" is just a typical example of the attitude that has developed in Germany. News Medias, especially on TV, are getting more and more biased and its hard to find a news source here that is informing about events in an objective way. It all reminds me more and more of a kind of propaganda war that is waged here and which the US is clearly loosing.

> Note from David: Anyone who watched this Tatort episode has to agree that the script conveyed - and was meant to convey - the message of the Bush family's sinister dealings in connection with 9/11. There is no other possible interpretation.

Exactly! That's why the episode - and the girl in the story that came up with the conspiracy theory - was called Sheherazade. To make sure that every dimwit understands that it is absolutely true and non-fictional :-)

Note from David: Martina, please try sarcasm 102. You (more or less) successfully completed course 101, as proven by your frequent comments in this blog. You are definitely funny, sort of.

Also, please move on beyond using :-).

"Note from David: Anyone who watched this Tatort episode has to agree that the script conveyed - and was meant to convey - the message of the Bush family's sinister dealings in connection with 9/11. There is no other possible interpretation. To suggest otherwise is an insult to the well known left-wing author of the script. There wasn't room for "...this Tatort episode doesn't imply anything. It gives some hints, here and there, not more. That makes the episode exciting. It provocates. It let's you think "How can they ...". "
Nice try anyway, Michael. Next: "Michael Moore doesn't really want to insult Bush"."

Why did it convey and who? It didn't convey me. Maybe it conveys you if you see ghosts everywhere in the media, conspiracies and stuff like that. If you see everywhere guys that want to blow up your mind with propaganda.

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