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» Free Muslims Against Terror from The Prickly Pear
But, why I did I have to learn about this Rally from a German blog? If it's been noted in the American media, I certainly haven't seen it. [Read More]

» The first thing that has to happen is you have to admit you have a problem from Solomonia
Someone is in denial. Looks like the Free Muslims' march against terrorism flopped. Jihad Watch reports attendance at about 50 or so, which judging from this photo at LGF looks about right. David's Medienkritik also has photos and pegs attendance... [Read More]

» A sad day for American Muslims from CDR Salamander
This is just sad. Such a small turnout; such little support. The folks at Free Muslims Against Terrorism gave a March Against Terrorism on the 14th. This was the turnout. Americans of the Muslim faith are at a tender moment. They are our neighb... [Read More]

» Fifty Muslims and friends against terrorism from Kesher Talk
I left for the "Free Muslims Against Terrorism" rally at 6:30 AM yesterday to take the subway to meet my ride to Washington DC. I got back from the rally about 3 AM, after a long dinner and drinks... [Read More]

» Fifty Muslims and friends against terrorism from Kesher Talk
I left for the "Free Muslims Against Terrorism" rally at 6:30 AM yesterday to take the subway to meet my ride to Washington DC. I got back from the rally about 3 AM, after a long dinner and drinks... [Read More]

» SICK from trying to grok
I read something this morning that I can't really get out of my head. I don't really want to write about it, but I can't stop thinking about it. It's the last paragraph of this article in Slate: And that... [Read More]

Comments

Were it not for the arab-american organizations talking it down and boycotting it, it would be better attended. I must admit, even the moderate and general interest organizations that boycotted it disappointed me a great deal. Really.

Perhaps the turn out was disappointing, but I say God bless and thank you to those who try.

Could you imagine any formal group of Muslims living in Germany organising a similar rally?

It is clear that the average Muslim in this country, or anywhere, is not much different from the average white person in the South during the heyday of the Klu Klux Klan. Sympathetic to the KKK. No matter who wins, he wins.

The Muslims I know do nothing against Muslim terror. If they have an opinion, it is sympathetic to the terrorists, except when the terrorists kill fellow Muslims. Then they tend to blame the USA for making them do it. Very frightening.

I think it is time the average well meaning non-Muslim wakes up to reality. It is not pleasant, but cannot be ignored.


OT, but doesn't this priceless story of an idiot politician deserve a place in the Medienkritik Hall of Fame? :-) He sounds a bit like Ted Kennedy!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/14/wgerm14.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/05/14/ixportal.html

Political joke on vagrant falls flat
By Kate Connolly in Berlin
(Filed: 14/05/2005)

The deputy leader of the German state of Bremen has been forced to relinquish his post after he poured a magnum of champagne over a homeless man in what he claimed was a joke.

Opps. Just to followup on my last post.

The KKK and allied groups WON. Ten years after the close of the Civil War, the terror they inflicted on the Southern blacks effectively disenfranchised them. The governments of the Southern states were in the same hands as before the Civil War by 1875. Not until the Civil rights movement of the 1950's and 1960's did blacks gain back their right to vote. And, that pressure came from Northern, not Southern whites.

Frankly, I don't see any "Northern" Muslims anywhere in the world. Muslim terror is worldwide. Recently, a Norwegian preacher had to be taken into protective custody because he criticized the Prophet. Norwegian Muslims swore they would kill him. There is no place in the Western world safe from Muslim terror. Our liberals call this diversity.

I suspect many people who are appeasing the Muslims today criticize those who appeased Hitler in the 1930's. Appeasers always hope that by being nice to evil people, the evil people will become nice. Hasn't happened yet. I think it was Einstein who said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result.

Get real: The KKK is just a fringe group and does not present a clear and present danger. Islam worse than cummunism and the entire cold war era combined. But check this out:

Alarm! Listen up you all:

The History channel is currently running a reportage on Saudi Arabia. Among other Saudi fat- cats the reporter interviews Prince Turki:

Prince Turki calls 9/11 a 'TRAVESTY'-

NOW LET THE RIOTS BEGIN!!! The first time I thought I didn't hear right. The Dhimmi reporter didn't ask. Then it came again:

The 9/11 'TRAVESTY'- with a big grin on his face!


Nuke the bastards!!!!!! NUKE THE BASTARDS NOWWW!!!!

Posted by Terminator at May 15, 2005 12:24 AM

Lou M. -

A little while back I read about a well-connected lady in France who made some wisecrack about the poor. Something about them eating cake.

Seems that one didn't go over too well, as I recall.

Nonetheless, the existence of a group like Free Muslims Against Terror is cause for optimism

Big mistake.

Look closely at FMAT's site and especially their resource links page.

A number of links are to blatantly blasphemous sites, books, etc., that any reasonably observant Muslim (run of the mill - I'm not talking about Wahabis) would be disgusted by.

FMAT at the most represents secular Muslims who minimally observe their religion.

FMAT is a mere distraction. Keep your eye on the ball and don't blink.

The (lack of) response of all too many muslims in the west is the perfect metaphor for why the Arab world is in the state it is in.
Sure, some muslims come west and prosper, which I have to assume is because they can not prosper at home, but then inexplicably (self destructively?) they seem to wish to replace what works here, with what wasn't working and
they left behind over there!?!?
Remember Einstein's quote about "Madness?"

The greatest irony of history is that the muslim world had the great good fortune to find themselves sitting on top of most of the worlds known oil reserves.
The other side of that fortuitous coin however is that oil has fed their socialist (sharia) welfare state. And as happens in all welfare states, they too ended up with a large slice of bitter and hatefilled people, living in their own kind of innercity, and seeing the world through a victimized ghetto mentality.
Like the crimewave of the 60s in America's cities, the worldwide muslim thugs have attempted to wrap themselves in a romantic notion and get away with it for as long as they can. They were both indulged for far too long before good people decided to start fighting back. After 9/11, Bush decided it was time to fight back.
Just like their are people in America who still wish/need to believe the Black Panthers, SDS, et al, were "revolutionary" freedom fighters
So there are people around the world today who still don't/can't recognize criminal thuggery for what it really is.
Do any of these foolish people ever test their "beliefs" against the resulting end state when carried out?
Who hasn't heard some pompous "progressive" jackass make the amazingly ignorant comment that "things were better when hussein was in power!" The begged question is of course ,
"better for whom?"

Tyranno

> Could you imagine any formal group of Muslims living in Germany organising a similar rally?

Hardly.

Asher Abramswrote:


Nonetheless, the existence of a group like Free Muslims Against Terror is cause for optimism

Big mistake.
...

FMAT is a mere distraction. Keep your eye on the ball and don't blink.


The sad thing is that a lot of people see no reason for pessimism and thus haven't come to need any optimism.

I do not personally know more than two persons who have drawn the right conclusion: there is no reason for optimism (other than our weapon technology). Keep your eye on the ball!

The picture of the nearly empty plaza at LGF tells a story.

The fundamental problem of the arab muslims in the modern world is that their culture is in decline. In the middle age and even after, there was a great and important muslim culture. But to modernity they didn't adapt. At least the large majority. So they are resentful - they think that islam is superior, but even the fanatics can see that muslim culture doesn't plays an important role today. They ask themselves: why? The fatal answer is: because we are victims. Of the Christians. Of the Jews. Of the West. Instead of reforming their culture and religion, they blame others for their problems. So instead of fighting the problems, they fight those who they blame for their problems. Very unhealthy, first and foremost for the arab muslims themselves. For the outside world, the big problem is that those people control a great part one of the most important raw materials, oil. So they have both: a means to put pressure on us and a means to buy arms which might be directed against us. Without oil, there would be no problem for the outside world. They would simply play no role. But oil gives them the means to arm themselves, and also to support terror.
There is another unhealthy mechanism. The west has a bad conscience for imperialism. Especially leftists tend to see arabs as "our victims". So there is a strong relationship between those arab muslims who blame us for their problems and European or American leftists who tell them that they are the victims of western imperialism. Both strains are reinforcing themselves mutually.
But, at least some good signs. The Arab Reports on Human Development seem to be a good starting point for a healthy reform. A reform that is urgently needed, especially for Europeans. The demographic evolution will lead to a growing muslim population, and Europe has every interest that those people are not hostile to us. Europeans should put more pressure on their governments to join the US in the enterprise to modernize the middle East. Otherwise, it will be Europe that will pay a high prize.

ulrich, you're not familar enough with their scriptures.

They blame the Jews and Christians not because of some flaw that makes them incapable of self critique, but because their scriptures explicitely tell them that they're the victims of Jews and Christians. And they can't make peace with the rest of the world because their scriptures specifically tell them that God will deny them his blessings if they make friends with Jews Christians and the rest of the world.

The problem is that Mahommad was a paranoid. They're simply following scriptures that are filled with the most foolish ideas imaginable. Deny a man the possibility of all wisdom and you end up with Muslim society.

Ulrich, Some advice: pack you bags now.

@ Joshua
Every man is a child of his time, also Mohammed. The problem is, as in every religion with "holy" texts, to translate them into a different situation. That's what exegesis is all about. That's also possible with Koran.

I wish I would live long enough to either see (1) oil run out or (2) a substitute for oil.

Then what would the Saudis, Iraqis, (OPEC for that matter) have? A bunch of sand. Then maybe they can form a glass cartel.

Thursday night I told my husband to plan to take care of the dog Saturday afternoon as I would be at this rally. Then I checked out the website. Tariq Ramadan? That is one bad actor. The U.S. won't let him in the country. He was Alboudi's defense lawyer? Yikes! And with CAIR openly criticising FMAT, I figured no Muslims would show up. So, my take is that my body would not be adding to the attendance count. And from the pictures I've seen, basically no Muslims went - just some curious infidels.

I remember when Nawash ran for office here in Virginia. People would look at his campaign signs and shake their heads in wonderment. "Muslim Palestinian? Well, at least he's an optimist" was along the lines of the more gentle commentary.

This guy may mean well - he may really be suckered in by the likes of Ramadan. But no more do these people get the benefit of my doubt. I know what taqqiya means.

@ulrich
That's what exegesis is all about. That's also possible with Koran.


Yes. And we can start with the mis-translation of 'raisins' to 'virgins'.

Martina would have a case if the "terror" the Turks were protesting were perpetrated by Muslim suicide bombers, but closer inspection reveals that the demonstration was just another outburst against USA and Israel "terror".

This sort of thing accomplishes one thing - it demonstrates that all of the "religion of peace" and "most muslims are against terrorism" lines are the load of pig-shit that informed people have known for some time.

Muslims operate within a level of group-think that is terrifying to me

And before I get flamed as a bigot, racist, whatever - I am not saying ALL muslims

I am saying most - a dismayingly large proportion

Its simply too much for me to accept that the complete lack of protest against OBL ( indeed - the celebrations that accompanied his acts ) doesn't mean anything

I know the President has to be diplomatic - but I hope he knows the truth

"""Muslims operate within a level of group-think that is terrifying to me

And before I get flamed as a bigot, racist, whatever - I am not saying ALL muslims

I am saying most - a dismayingly large proportion"""

Unfortunately Pogue, my personal experiences over the last 6-7 years puts me in agreement. Due to the fact that my girlfriend is muslim (of course a moderate), I've had a lot of contact with muslims. Some could barely disguise their joy after 911, and some just plain let it rip. I got into a conversation with a 'gentleman' out of Tunisia, and somehow we ended up discussing Palestinian terrorism. Words started getting passionate, so eventually I just straight up asked him if he thought killing innocent Israeli women and children is justified. Without a blink, he looked dead into my eyes and said,"Yes." Oh, he meant it, too! Unfortunately, such attitudes aren't that rare, most just aren't that blunt about it. Believe me. I work in a company that's about 30% muslims out of 400 people. You're right Pogue, it's not all muslims (have muslim friends myself) that have this 'group think'; however, it's too damned many!

I don't make my girlfriend's life easy, as you could imagine. Poor girl comes home from work, and I've got conservative talk radio blasting from the internet--got to stay sane in Europe.

A German/Palestinian friend of mine used to always let loose with his conspiracy theories, fresh from Al Jazeera, at lunch. So, I pay him back when he comes by to play chess. While I'm busy putting his ass in check-mate, I've got Rush Limbaugh, or Fox News videos, running in the background.

Funny, the conspiracy theories have become less frequent. :)

By the way here's a report: http://antiprotester.blogspot.com/2005/05/live-blogging-muslim-anti-terror-rally.html
The organizers are claiming that about 150 people showed up

James W., the first time I met a Muslim was after an earthquake that killed a few people near where I live (the Loma Pirata earthquake caused a freeway to collapse in Oakland California). Anyway I walked into a small shop to buy a Coke and the old man behind the counter had to tell me that God was punishing us "for the evil that Jews do" and that "Jews rejected God, it says so in the Koran"... Basically earthquakes are caused by us shirking out duty to slaughter Jews.

Lovely people, Muslims.

Oops, typo. I meant that he was saying:

Basically earthquakes are caused by us shirking our duty to slaughter Jews.

While we are dumping on Muslims, I might as well explain to all why they are so stupid.

I figure about 10%, at least, of males in any society are just not fit to breed. Stupid, weak, ugly, whatever. Same for the women. If the boys and girls have freedom of choice, such misfits don't get to breed.

In Muslim society, since the girl has no choice of who to marry, and since sometimes the man gets his family to get the girl for him, men who would never breed in a Western Society may get to have 10 kids. Same for the women, since who really cares if the third wife is almost worthless. She means more children.

So, there you have it. Take off the veils and give woman the choice of who to marry, and the sorry mess we call the Muslim world will be on the mend.

Allah be praised.

Womens liberation will be the salvation of the entire arab/muslim world Joel

The thing that Islam gives to every piss poor peasant in the developing world is the opportunity, the right and indeed the requirement that he is at the very least able to be lord and master to one other human being

You may be ignorant as a brick wall and not have a pot to piss in - but at least your wife has less and you get to beat her if she mouths off to you

@pogue
Womens liberation will be the salvation of the entire arab/muslim world Joel

(Hi pogue!)

There's another 'unanticipated consequences' issue here. Inbreeding. Because they like to marry within their own tribes (to secure the material wealth) the genetic dysplasia is showing up big time. I live in Northern Virginia (suburb of D.C.). We are inundated with Muslims and although I realize this is anecdotal, the percentage of Muslim kids that are visibly damaged is way high.

Pamela while this topic strikes me as counterproductive, I can't resist factiods... First cousin weddings are a tradition among Arabs. I had a roomate from Jordan who went back to marry his first cousin.

Tyranno

The Muslim backwardness has nothing to do with the welfare state. They are no better when they are born and raised in the US. It is simply their strong belief that their religion is the only true one, that all other Muslims are their "brothers" (even if they were members of the Taliban), and an aggressive history. They have been slaugthering people from the start, burning down libraries, killing whole populations, etc. It is probably the only religion which has failed to evolve, at all, over 2000 years. (I mean that even the general muslims outlook has not changed, while the general Christian, Jew, Hindu or Buddhist has integrated himself in this world, and puts common sense and humanity before loyatly to religion.)

@ulrich you say
Every man is a child of his time, also Mohammed. The problem is, as in every religion with "holy" texts, to translate them into a different situation. That's what exegesis is all about. That's also possible with Koran

You need to study Islam more. Exegesis is not allowed. Every thing a muslim needs to know is in the Quran, no changes are allowed. To try and change it's interpretation invites a death sentence. Islam is about submission. You adapt youself and culture to islam, it doesn't adapt to your culture or you. That is why it is still mired in the 7th century.

Yes this is crazy.

@ sock puppet of doom
"Exegesis is not allowed. Every thing a muslim needs to know is in the Quran, no changes are allowed."
Every text needs interpretation - translation into a different situation. That's the job of religious authorities, they tell people what is meant by this or that sentence. They are the translators.
On the struggle of interpretation there is a interesting book review:
www.mafhoum.com/press7/190C37.htm

""You need to study Islam more. Exegesis is not allowed. Every thing a muslim needs to know is in the Quran, no changes are allowed. To try and change it's interpretation invites a death sentence. Islam is about submission.""

Changes in meaning and interpretation are also not allowed in the Bible. I mean, think about it, if we were allowed to make changes to messages in the Bible because those messages are no longer comfortable for our lifestyles, then eventually the meaning would become almost unrecognizeable compared to the original meaning. You (if you're religious) can't change God's will just because it doesn't fit into your culture.

Talking the talk, and walking the walk is a tough job.

Now, in a little defense of the Quran, I've read nearly 200 pages (out of curiousity) of scripture and still have found no support of killing innocent women and children. What it does say is that when muslims are attacked, they may fight back against the attack until the enemy surrenders. Of course, a terrorist can read between the lines and make the scripture mean what they want it to mean.

James the other writtings are worse than the Koran itself. Not that Muslims are willing to give them up.

Joshua, I'm curious to what extent the other writings are based on true Islam, or just some twisted interpretation of it. I'm also curious to know how many 'homicide' bombers, or wanna-be bombers, have actually read the Quran; or, whether most have been TOLD what they should believe. You know, kinda like the left and the MSM.

Does the majority of the problem stem from Islam, or from something else....education?

Did the men of early Islam distort the religion to make their lives more comfortable? Example: their treatment of women.

Can someone enlighten me?

As for the Sunnah I just know hearsay from talking to a few Muslims and googling the texts.

Aparently there are large collections of writings about the life of the prophet and collections (supposedly) of his sayings.

One Muslim (who I don't actually trust, mind you) told me that some 800,000 verses were known, and paired down into collections that are accepted by various groups. Obviously such a high number of writings must, mostely, be frauds.

But the stuff that's written in some of them are beyond awful.

The Saudis (and Palestians) teach one text that claims that God won't bring the rewards of judgement day until Muslims do their duty and slaughter the Jews. Not a few Jews, THE Jews.

That's the cause of the problem in Israel, not a dispute over land.

I read another text that said that black people were made to be slaves - I'll bet that one has something to do with the genocide in Darfur.

I've read other texts that clearly makes the sort of thing Al Qu'eda does a duty of Muslims. And another that makes giving charity money to Jihad a duty (that may be Koran)- so I think that most Muslims tithe to charity groups most of whom support fighting.

Another wonderful bit is that Muslims aren't supposed to give charity to nonmuslims unless there are no poor Muslims left, but that's going off topic.

"Did the men of early Islam distort the religion to make their lives more comfortable? Example: their treatment of women."

Well all of those fraudulent verses about the prophet were written for a reason. Some where written while the prophet was still God-King. That way your local leader could put his words in God's mouth. That's always convinient.

But I don't have high hopes that getting rid of the horrors of Arab culture that didn't come from Mohammad would be all that much better. I think that would still leave some rousing war-time speeches about how Jews and Christians are enemies of God and always will be, and you always beat the one you love...

Maybe I should have written "most Muslims tithe to charity groups all of whom support fighting."

After reading text that makes tithing to supporting Jihad a duty I'll believe that there are Muslims charities that don't support fighting when I see it PROVEN and when I see a charity stand up and say that they specifically oppose Jihad in Israel and in Iraq and in Kashmir etc. More Muslim charities are caught giving money to terrorists every day.

You know that may be a reason that American Muslims won't stand up to terrorism. Perhaps they've already "bought in" - they know their charity tithes PAY for terrorism - how can they be against terrorism that they've contributed to?

I have lived in the UAE myself and have seen the way the locals treat the people they hire for disgustingly low wages (all from the Indian subcontinent) like dirt. They are treated like slaves, simply because they are dark skinned, and poor. Regular atrocities carried out against hired help (beating, rape, etc) are often gone unpunished simply because the perpetrator swore on the Koran that he was innocent. In one case, this acutally resulted in the improsonment of a Sri Lankan rape victim!

Seeing this racism and blatant abuses violations of human rights (not just by the population, but also by the govt) has hardened me, and it infuraites me when Muslims in the US, Germany, etc say they are treated unfairly, when in their own countries, abuses like these and worse are justified and non-Muslims are given no rights whatsoever.

Thanks for the info Joshua.

""Seeing this racism and blatant abuses violations of human rights (not just by the population, but also by the govt) has hardened me, and it infuraites me when Muslims in the US, Germany, etc say they are treated unfairly, when in their own countries, abuses like these and worse are justified and non-Muslims are given no rights whatsoever.""

I agree. The blatant hypocrisy is disgusting.

I have to laugh about the comment of "true Islam."

Islam is simply what Muslims do. If Muslims kill out of intolerance and hatred, then Islam is a religion of those who kill and hate.

Life is simple.

Dear Joel,

Your idea goes right when you admit that all what christians do of sins and obscenity is whath christianity wants from them?????

muslims started to kill when their religion is being insulted and their lands are stolen by a smart way from stronger countries like USA, they are defending their wrights when all stronger countries are stealing their everthing, and you Iraq as a good example.

Note from David: IP address points to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

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