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The feelings will never go away. Even if they ask us to come an help again when they start another continental war. Except for those decent people who live there (a pair of border guards who helped me out when my family was there). And of course the posters here.

A very good piece - thanks so much for the translation - esp helpful to this uncultured American :)

It seems to me that quite a lot of the current anti-Americanism in Europe is related to the way we have reacted to being attacked and slaughtered in great numbers some 3+ years ago

Or actually the very fact that we have reacted to this threat at all

The european answer to such things is to ignore the problem and try to pacify the terrorists - sadly that was our position for far too long

9-11 changed this

And frankly I have never accepted the "I don't hate America - just Bush" line - its an outright lie

Bush is the elected President of the United States - what he says and does are part of America

Anti-americanism will get worse in the near future, not better. Anti-americanism is, partially, the glue that binds the soul-less EU together.

The unfortunate thing is that we Americans just aren't very good anymore at dishing out the hatred like the Europeans. This is largely because of multiculturalism and the fact that we are a nation of immigrants and if you start directing hate speech at a foreign nation, you are inevitably going to offend some section of the American population that still has ties to that nation.

I'm not sure if I posted this before or not, but it bears repeating. A history professor I heard on C-Span offered an interesting explaination for why Germans are so ignorant of the U.S. It seems that almost no one studies U.S. history in German universities. According to him, the state of North Carolina, with a mere 8.4 million people, has more university professors who's speciality is German history than all of Germany, with 70 million people, has professors specializing in U.S. history.

In the U.S., if you get together a few dozen people who're college graduates, you're likely to find someone who majored or minored in German history and culture. In Germany, I suspect you'd need to ask hundreds of Germans before you found one educated as well in U.S. culture and history.

Much like the French, Germans are living in a long-departed past when Germanic Kultur dominated scholarship and arts such as music. That preeminence crossed the Atlantic during the Nazi years and in the years immediately after the war. Ranting and raving with barely concealed envy will do nothing to bring it back. If the French and Germans want to play a major role on the world's stage, they need to stop whining and get to work. The world won't be changed by saying nasty things about someone as good and decent as Bush.

It might also help if Western Europeans would do something about their below replacement birthrates. To paraphrase Theodore Roosevelt, the first President to project the U.S. onto the world stage, no children means no future.

--Mike Perry, Seattle
Author: Untangling Tolkien
Editor: Dachau Liberated

Germans are the largest ethnic group in the United States, so German anti-Americanism is a form of self-hatred. Nobody said Germans were logical.

I am chronically confused about the dynamics at work in Europe. The disconnect between what I know to be the truth about America and the European interpretation is simply too wide for me to comprehend. I am afraid this article and the comment of Solyom hits pretty close to the truth, and that this is something beyond the power of Americans and whoever our chosen President happens to be to fix. The fact that this dishonest interpretation of me and my country absolutely flies in the face of our common history leaves me feeling used, disgusted, and cold.

This may be the most interesting post and thread I have read on this site.

PacRimJim is of course right: except for the British Isles, more people in the US have ancestors from Germany than any other European nation.

Despite the myth in Europe that Americans are a bunch of ill-educated louts, there are many more Americans who have studied European history than Europeans who have studied American history.

And the roots of anti-Americanism are very deep in European soil: after all, most Americans are descended from those who left Europe behind, which is the ultimate insult

Apropos Mike Perry's post about German ignorance of American history: When I tell Germans my last name, which is German-Jewish (actually Yiddish), they are often surprised and tell me it's an unusual name for an American. Apparently, they (and to be fair, many more people around the globe) think that real Americans are named "Smith" and "Jones" and that America is an Anglo-Saxon country with a homogenous "Volk". The character of America as a country composed of diverse immigrants from all over the world is not part of European common knowledge.

My own observations:

1. We had many visitors from Germany last year (the price I pay for having a German wife, living in a popular tourist area, the six weeks vacation everyone in Germany receives and a weak dollar). Every visitor told me the following about American history:

a) The US would have forced the "Morgenthau Plan" on Germany until we decided that we needed Germany to protect ourselves from the Soviet Union
b) There was a proposal 200 years ago to make German the official language of America and it failed by one vote in Congress
c) The US treatment of the Indians paralleled the Nazi treatment of the Jews
d) The US has never experienced the destruction of war on her own soil
e) The US has no history since it has only been around for 200 years.

2. Every time we visit Berlin we spend a lot of time visiting bookstores. I've seen no books about US history in any bookstore, even the equivalent of a Barnes & Noble (Hugendubel). About the only books on the US were travel books and Michael Moore's publications. I will point out that the Barnes & Noble nearest to me has at least 25 different hard bound volumes on German history, with close to half covering topics other than the Nazi era/World War II.

Of course Americans aren't always very knowledgable about their own history. Years ago, I believe I was the only one in the theater who laughed at John Belushi's line in "Animal House" about the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor. Lack of knowledge of US history is one common trait that Germans and Americans appear to share.

Agreed, the comments are very good. "Anti-americanism will get worse in the near future, not better. Anti-americanism is, partially, the glue that binds the soul-less EU together." Wow. That should be printed on the bottom of the EU flag.

I have German ancestry. So what? I also have Irish and Finnish ancestors. I feel no special affinity for Germany, Ireland, or Finland for that. I'm one of the "German History" minors mentioned above. When I was living there, I found that I had a much better education on both US _and_ German history.

Having been raised fully aware of the experiences of my Uncles, I grew up hating the Japanese with a passion. I didn't much care for the Germans. The actions of the Japanese year after year have changed my feelings about them greatly. My feelings about the Germans are changing too but not in the same direction. I think we all hoped to see Germany get over it's new insanity but, with regrets, maybe it's time to just move along. The future is the Pacific anyway. I wish I had studied Japanese instead of German.

@ ambrose wolfinger

I can hardly believe that the Morgenthau Plan REALLY comes up among Germans. This was Nazi propaganda SIXTY years ago. Did no one notice that Morgenthau's plan was proposed by someone who was not involved in foreign policy and that it was never adopted? The only occupying power that did anything about de-industrializing Germany was the USSR who carted off trainloads of equipment to Russia. I am not necessarily surprised that Germans in 1944 worried that it might be true: Morgenthau was in fact a US Cabinet officer who had proposed a pretty inane plan. BUT, when nothing even remotely like it was ever put into effect in the western zone, rational people might have concluded that Goebbels had fed them another lie. Nope, I guess it is still going strong despite the Berlin Airlift, the German "economic miracle," etc. It is no wonder that religious faith in Europe is weak: their faith is all used up in crediting anti-American myths that their own experience ought to discredit.

Credo quia impossible.

Don't worry about it Blue - the whole world will be speaking english in the near future - or maybe Chinese

What is surprising in this and I doubt was left out of the article is, and Germans don't realise I guess, there is no correspondence to the German medias anti-Americanism in the US. There is no negative or anti-German bias in our mainstream media, none, nada, nothing like it. Only on some blogs will to get a slight hint of anger at the lack of support in the WOT on the part of Germany. France however is portrayed as anti-American and at odds with US foreign and domestic policy quite plainly.

I find it outrageous that the German Media ignores this. It makes no sense for them to do this unless the bias is intentional. The translated interview gives no indication of this apparently intentional act of omission by the German MSM.

I am confused why Germans want appear so short sighted, insular and shallow.

I've pretty much accepted the fact that Germany has cut the cord that bound us together. So much for the tens of millions of Americans who can trace their ancestry back to Germany. Nothing we can do about it.

Whenever I read Der Speigel or Deutsche Welle it's pretty clear that Germany's gonna do whatever France tells them to do, whether it's to sell arms to the Chinese Communist dictators, or fund terrorists groups like the Hezbollah. So be it.

Question, though. Have the powers that be in Germany stepped back lately to look at the Big Picture? The German government, like France, is sucking up to China and Russia, but I'll wager that there will be some serious economic problems in those two countries in the near future. Not a run-of-the-mill recession, but a full-blown Indonesia-style meltdown. My wager will be safe, because centrally-controlled dictatorships (I know Russia is currently only a quasi-dictatorship) ALWAYS melt down.

I think the French and the Germans are hitching their horse to the wrong wagon. Does anyone in charge in Germany consider this?

@pogue

>>And frankly I have never accepted the "I don't hate America - just Bush" line - its an outright lie

But it's true sometimes. My mother is an example. She likes Americans and America (being born in WWII, she remembers many good things about Americans). But due to the reports in our media about Bush and that Michael Moore Movie (sadly, she is a bit naive), she doesn't like Bush very much. I do my best to convince her and sometimes I succeed.
So I just wanted to say, that there is the possibility that someone dislikes Bush while not being anti-american.


Education, information, information. Internet-(Blogs!) are a giant step.
But they reach too few people.

Germany needs a moderate-rightwing/conservative radio station.
Can´t some of you guys buy a station and get it started ?
Next step is dito TV Station.

All the Left will call the stations ultra-rightwing / fascist whatever, but so what. They would do that no matter how mellow the content.
Broadcast, broadcast, broadcast. Let the people decide. Give them a straw of communion to be able to dissent and voice what they really think.

There are possibilities. It's called "Bürgerfunk". Private citizens have an hour of time once a week for their programs. But I don't know if there are restrictions (no politics, etc.).

Below is a link to a short Brooking Instution paper with the title.

"Anti-Americanism and Ambivalence in the New Germany"....U.S.-Europe Analysis, January 2005


What you will find I think will be interesting. It is only 4 short pages and gives some historical background on anti-Americanism starting at the turn of the 20th Century, then throught the two World Wars, V-N, right up to today.

Realize this paper is a bit from the left side of the political spectrum as it is being sponsored by BI. It is still interesting as backgroud information. In many of you have lived in much of the periods covered.

I think when you read this you will find anti-Americanism is not new and it would appear it is going to continue to be one of the underlying principles of German attitudes.

http://www.brookings.edu/printme.wbs?page=/fp/cuse/analysis/werz20050101.htm

More and more i am led to believe that German anti-Americanism is a cultural thing. That this culture is fed by the media, not created by the media. Had the german media taken it upon themselves to be fair and objective, with time, the German anti-Americanism culture may change. But i suspect by then it would hardly matter as the US, and the World as a whole, would have moved on, while Germany will continue to move away from the West, as it still will not be able to assimilate its immigrant population while the native German population will only dwindled that much more.

@ Jeff

I spoke about the Morgenthau Plan in an earlier thread. You are right....it was offered only as a course of action by Henry Morgenthau, when Rooselvelt asked his cabinet to come up with a plan for post-war Germany. Roosevelt died before any post-war plan for Germany was ever adapted. However, Joseph Goebels found out about the Plan and made it a propaganda master piece...to encourage Germans to resist to the bitter end.

The West German education establishment brushed off Goebel's propaganda and started teaching it to its children as fact, right after the war. (Don't know whether it was taught in the DDR)

German school kids have been taught that the Morgenthau plan is real and fact for the last sixty years.

Americans like us, with knowledge of German and German history, need to work hard to debunk this myth. We also need to stop the German education establishment from teaching 60 year old Nazi propaganda.

My father visited East Germany a few years before the wall came down. As Russian troops goose-stepped an East Berliner whispered in his ear "It won't always be like this". Looking back in retrospect, I wish my father would have replied 'the Russian can have you, you can have the Frogs and the Muslims can pick at the carcass, you've made your bed, lie in it'.

@Jeff

I mentioned in an earlier post that at least one-third of the permanent exhibition at the Cecilienhof in Potsdam (the actual site of the 1945 Potsdam summit) is devoted to the Morgenthau Plan. There is no explanation in the exhibit of the Morgenthau Plan's connection to the Potsdam summit, presumably because there is none. Certainly there is no mention that the Plan was never considered by Presidents Roosevelt and Truman. The purpose is simply to make sure that every German who visits knows about it (at that time, the permanent exhibit was only in German).

@ George M

My former East German wife tells me that she does not recall any mention of the Morgenthau Plan in her history classes, although she admits she paid as little attention to her history courses as possible (the government changed everything every year, so she thought was a waste of time to learn history). That makes sense, since there was virtually no mention in the East German education system of the US or British role in World War II, except for the bombing of Dresden.

Dateline: Europe 2020.
An International army of Jihadists invests a major European capital and Kultur center, with orders to then march on the Rhine and Tiber and to desecrate St Peters Cathedral. France out of percieved self interest does nothing, German resistance is minimal, some Europeans ally with invaders. The Poles fight heroicaly.

Oooops, my bad, That's Dateline: Vienna 1683.

@ Tom Penn: Hear, hear!

All the time we Americans are told, you know nothing of Europe, our culture etc etc. Many Amercans will freely admit that if you ask them about it, they simply do not care to know. Yet many Europeans know equally nothing of America, our culture, etc etc. but will not admit it. They seem very sure they are correct about America & Americans from their lessons in history class, what they've read in the papers and seen on TV. It's an astonishing & dangerous mix of arrogance and ignorance, to say the least.

I´ll check up on this Morgenthau thing. That may be a misinformation that it is taught (and stressed) at schools.

I don´t really recall it being a big deal during history classes other than it was " a possible remote policy" .

@ AW

Yes you had said that before. I had forgotten. My apologies.

@ George

I remember that you had talked about the Morgenthau plan, but not that it was taught as something relevant in German schools. You probably did. I have early onset Alzheimers I think.

Stunning that in all the analysis above, I fail to see one mention of the word that is at the heart of this.

That word is "socialism".

Socialism, as a construct, has had an enemy that must be overcome to realize it's dream since moment one. There has never been a five minute period in a 150 years that socialism has not had "the enemy", who is always at fault for the reality that socialism does not exist today. It would, of course if it wern't for the damn (Bourgousie, plutocrats, industrialists, kulaks, landlords, running dogs, imperialists, Americans, Jews.....).

That is what this is about, more than anything. Western Europe has replaced the Christian God with one that is failing, and will always fail. But "God" can't be at fault, thus it is the fault of the fallen Americans and of Lucifer himself, GWB.

Easter Islanders had Gods of Stone that gave them a paradigm to view the world. Then they went stark raving mad and toppled them all in a civilization-ending rage.

I find myself thinking of them more and more as I watch and listen to the catastrophically misbegotten European Left.

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