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Amricans should ask themselves, "With friends such as these who needs enemies?"

Peter P. Haase
Boca Raton, Florida

Americans should ask themselves, "With friends such as these who needs enemies?"

Peter P. Haase
Boca Raton, Florida

Probably because there is no future. The Left will eventually get its wish of "Amis raus" (probably a few years too late after the fall of the Berlin Wall), and the current German administration is certainly salonfaehig with its anti-Americanism. Or vice-versa.

So, for once, in a democracy, let's give the people what they want -- Amis raus!

BTW, about this wall in HD. Did they put one up during Desert Storm, too? You know, the UN-sanctioned war against Saddam? The same UN that had passed 16 resolutions against the Saddam (I-love-Stalin regime)? The same UN which had to send weapons inspectors into Iraq because it (the UN) thought Saddam really did have weapons of mass destruction (WMD)?

Was there such a wall when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan?

Over 5.2 million unemployed Germans and a troubled soccer situation. What a good way to avoid reality.

Funny, there are a lot of spargel fields ready to be worked...ever wonder why so many Poles and other foreigners come work the fields?

The reason for the US to maintain a military presence in Germany is long gone. The German government and people do not want the US soldiers there. What reason is there to stay? Infusing cash into a nation that dislikes us just doesn't seem like much of a reason to me. Of course, I am just a stupid American, and probably don't understand the complexity of the situation.

Tweell - I don't know you so I can't say if you are stupid - but always remember "even a blind squirell finds an acorn every now and then" ;)

Actually, keeping American soldiers stationed in Germany is not a bad idea. That way, we won't have to go through France next time.

This is indeed a pity, that Mark Twain's favorite German city is so anti-American, although hardly surprising.

I left Germany 50 years ago, and am an American by choice. With Germany turning so far left, can Islamo-Fascism be far behind? Germans have lost their anchor.

I lived in Heidelberg for over 4 years and I am so saddened with what is happening in Germany. Some of the best times of my life were spent there during 1973-1977. I do remember some Germans shouting at us, but for the most part they seemed sociable and friendly. Now I wouldn't go back if you paid me. Such a shame since Heidelberg is such a scenic area. Guess the Germans will have to learn to live without our military and our tax dollars.

once again, glad I got my family out of Germany. It's happening....again

The national dialogue in socialist countries seems to run about an inch deep. Weird.

A dear friend of mine is back from iraq after 13 months. He was the American Embassy's special consultant on trade, and before the hand over he was the trade minister, essentially. The reasons he volunteered for the job were several but he told me the most compelling was his own experience as a Geman born under the American occupation. He said he really wanted the Iraqis to see that this was a very good thing for them and he thought that his experience would speak to them (it did). It is very sad that all this has been relegated to Germany's dustbin of unwanted history.

Seems to me that many Germans, or at least their leaders, are happily burning bridges. I'm not sure why exactly. There is not an equal amount of animosity amongst Americans toward Germany. It's not as if there are riots and protests in the streets of America's "red" states against Germany. In fact, other than what I read here I haven't run across ANY American hatred towards Germany. None. Any residual hatred towards Europe is aimed squarely at the French. Besides, according to wise European pundits, Americans are too stupid to even know Germany exists.

Since many Germans seem determined to alienate and dismiss Americans, I wonder if they have pondered the long-term consequences of their hatred. If you sh** on an ally/business partner long enough, they'll eventually move and take their business elsewhere.

I can understand from a nationalistic standpoint why Germans would want Americans out of Germany. Why don't the America haters just come right out and say "leave"? Americans are such shi**ty people, after all. If Germany told us to get out, we'd do so since we are currently guests there.

Germans have changed considerably over the past 60 years, from National Socialist to just plain socialist.

Many German people have an inferiority complex against the USA. As the bad side Germany was defeated by the USA in WW2. I remember in the past that old teacher only speaking about World War 2 when they can tell their stories how the USA bombs their cities. Nothing about the concentration camps from which they are smelling the evil holocaust.

It is very grotesque that the Anti-USA initiators Schröder & Joschka Fischer were in their past against an imperialistic country and now they are dreaming of an powerful (and imperialistic)Europe.

They were times where Joschka Fischer and Otto Schily (Secretary of the interior) are speaking about morals and ethics when Germany wants to sell weapons to china. Now they obviously lost their moral memory and ethics when sweet power is obscures their former ideals.

@ DL: I have seen this so-called "protective shield for International Law" in Heidelberg and I had the same feelings looking at it. I wrote about it on my website www.anti-anti-americanism.com/heidelberg.htm

I also don't buy the explanations that the EuroLeft hates America because we're a bunch of death-dealing warmongers. If the EuroLeft hated death-dealing warmongers, there are plenty of other players that are far more destructive. For instance, I don't hear about massive protests in Berlin crying out against Putin for the tens of thousands his government has killed in Chechnya. Nor do I hear a peep from the EuroLeft about the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dead in places like Sudan.

America is simply the scapegoat du jour for the EuroLeft's failings. Their hatred says a lot more about them than it does about us.

I am new to the world of blogging, but I can no longer resist the temptation to share my thoughts on this issue. I have visited Germany every year since 2001 (just after 9/11). I love Berlin, and even had the pleasure and privilege of participating in Oktoberfest in Munich in 2003. I also have several good friends and acquaintances in both formerly "West" and "East" Germany.

As an American I find the growing Anti-Americanism in Germany tragic on many levels, which are so well expressed on this blog. However, what I will have to ask my German friends and acquaintances when I am next in Germany is the following: Are the Anti-American Germans aware just how many Americans are of German heritage, and are proud of this heritage? So, in a way, are not the Anti-American Germans hating their own people (and, quite plausibly, distant relatives)? Just a thought.

Germany, France, Belgium ... these are lost causes. But more needs to be done than just shake the dust off of our feet as we leave. Zapatero is actively colluding with Chavez to ensure Latin America is hostile to the US. A word of warning to Germany -- although you've been doing this more quietly, by exporting high tech machinery and knowhow for weapons and bunkers, a lot of us are watching you much more closely now.

@anon, I would disagree with you on only one thing. I don't agree that Germany is a lost cause -- not yet, anyway. I do think that eventually the Germans are going to realize that Franco-Europeanism goes against their own interests, and when that day comes, they will find themselves very alone in the world. As long as they don't do something really stupid, like outright declaring war on the U.S., I don't mind watching and waiting until that day comes. Germany has the potential to be a very valuable ally under the right circumstances.

I'm picking up on something else, too, reading this thread. It seems like the current way for Germany to deal with the echoes of its Nazi period is to simply forget its history -- all of it. That is definitely throwing out the baby with the bath water. It leaves the people feeling uncomfortable and confused because they have no sense of past or roots. Of course, that's exactly the sort of thing that a leftist/socialist government wants; a confused and disinformed population is easy to push around. But it isn't a good strategy for maintaining a mentally healthy and productive populace, and it isn't moral either. The United States has had bad episodes in its history (what country hasn't?): slavery and mistreatment of the Indians being two examples. But you know something? I don't feel guilty about those things, because I didn't do them. Now, we must remember our history to make sure that these episodes aren't repeated, but that's not the same thing as holding people who are alive today personally responsible. And I apply the same principle to Germany: it needs to remeber the Nazis to make sure it doesn't happen again, but it also needs to allow itself to take pride in the good parts of its history, and not hold people personally responsible for events that occurred before they were born. Just totally core-dumping history is not the answer; in fact, it is almost a guarantee that the bad episodes from the past *will* happen again.

Somehow, we Americans have to start taking our case directly to the German people and convince them that their current leadership isn't doing them any favors. We'll be accused of interfering with Germany's internal affairs, but so what. Foreign governments lobby in the U.S. all the time. As other posters have said, a significant German heritage exists in the U.S. I'm not ready to give up on that.

Hi Medienkritiker.

BZ is reporting today that this money scandal around Hunziger might also affect our favourite foreign minister:

https://bz.berlin1.de/aktuell/news/050402/hunzinger.html

"Berlin - PR-Berater Moritz Hunzinger und seine Verflechtungen mit der deutschen Politik. Nach Renate Künast () gerät jetzt auch Außenminister Fischer ins Visier. Er soll von Hunzinger für einen Vortrag 19 999 Mark Honorar erhalten haben. Kurz vor der Bundestagswahl 1998 hielt Fischer - damals Grünen-Fraktionschef - in Frankfurt einen Vortrag vor Wirtschaftsführern. Hunzinger: "Ich habe ihm 20 000 Mark Honorar geboten." Fischer, so der PR-Berater, habe jedoch "nur" 19 999 Mark verlangt und einen Scheck über diese Summe als Parteispende erhalten.

Pikant: Ab 20 000 Mark müssen Parteispenden im Rechenschaftsbericht auftauchen."

Its seems that Fischer allegedly did a talk and was offered 20,000 Mark but took 1 Mark less so as not to have to claim this ammount as party donations. Why anyone would pay this guy to talk to some business leaders (yes i did translate that correctly) I really dont know! Hard to tell whether this will turn into anything. The BZ doesnt like Fischer at all and has a very pro American- German relations editorial most of the time. It does go on to say that the Greens say that there is nothing to back up these claims. The CDU or at least unnamed members of it are pushing for an enquiry. Keep your eyes peeled. Anyone heard anything about this?

@ Cousin Dave,

I think you're right about Germans forgetting their history, or at least drawing the wrong conclusions from it. Ask Americans what lessons should be drawn from WWII, and you hear "Better to be prepared militarily for whatever might happen," or "You have to fight evil." In contrast, it seems that the only lesson (or at least the overriding lesson) Germans learned from WWII is that "War is bad."

Why do I reach this conclusion? Because if they were simply pacifists, they would have seen the evil of Saddam but decided not to participate in taking him down. Instead, they expended huge amounts of political capital to actually protect Saddam. So unless I want to attribute horrible things to their character, which I don't want to do, I must conclude that they believe that there's nothing worse than war.

I don't understand this. It seems to me that, with their unique history, Germans should understand better than anyone that there are indeed some things worse than war. The Holocaust did not occur on the battlefield.

Mike, the Germans who *suffered* in the Holocaust aren't there anymore, nor are most of their descendents.

Seems to me that many Germans, or at least their leaders, are happily burning bridges. I'm not sure why exactly. There is not an equal amount of animosity amongst Americans toward Germany. It's not as if there are riots and protests in the streets of America's "red" states against Germany. In fact, other than what I read here I haven't run across ANY American hatred towards Germany. None. Any residual hatred towards Europe is aimed squarely at the French. Besides, according to wise European pundits, Americans are too stupid to even know Germany exists.

Lou, I think that most Americans, if they care at all, are just tired of Europe. I find myself thinking more isolationist all the time. I know that isolationism is a bad idea for the entire world but, I'm just getting to where it's difficult to care anymore.

I was proud enough of my German ancestry to take four years of high school German and do the exchange student thing in Hamburg for four weeks in 1978 - back when America and Germany had a common enemy, and the Soviets were the bad guys. I've been forced to re-evaluate my warm fuzzy feelings toward my ancestral homeland in the last few years. German ambivalence toward terrorism, democracy and human rights has helped me realize that the only ties I have to Germany are names in a family tree. I have no bond with the Germany expressed in the world view and vision of German media. If this is a fair representation of the world view and vision of the German people, I realize I can no longer make any claim to German heritage. I am 100% American, and proud of it. And to me, Germany is now just another irrelevant member of the UN.

Kudos to Cousin Dave for putting his (/her?) finger on a major cause of anti-Americanism, anti-capitalism, anti-traditional values both in Germany and Europe and in much of the youth of the United States and Britain as well: Simply an ignorance of history.

For example, it is my opinion (though it is merely an opinion, an untested theory that makes some sense) that to teens, 20-somethings and 30-somethings, the causes, gut wrenching horrors and world wide upheaval that was World War II is no more than a forgettable sidebar in history, in fact ancient history to them.

They are ignorant of the building blocks of modern Europe that came out of WWII. What they did learn of history was polluted by the revisionism so rampant in modern education. Illustrating womens' roles in the war effort superceded teaching the causes and details about the war.

My own kids recently in high school knew that women here in the U.S. played an important part in the war on the homefront re: Rosie the Riveter. That was about all they learned or retained about WWII. I would quiz them and they would answer that WWII occurred variously "about 30 years ago" or "about 100 years ago" and that it was about Hitler and Rosie the Riveter.

I suspect even their teachers have only a very cursory knowledge of the era.

Dave:

Great account of the evening's events. Always enjoy your work.

r/ Bedrock Guy

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." Thomas Jefferson to Col. Charles Yancey, 1816

What is really happening is that they're finally coming to grips with their history, and they have decided that teh Nazis, WW2 and the Holocaust weren't their fault; no, IT WAS ALL ADOLF HITLER and America liberated them (it was only Hitler who was defeated).

A leader that no one follows can do nothing.

Reading the story about Heidelberg does irk me a bit. I have relatives that live near Fulda, especially my oldest brother. Since Iraq War 2 started, I have made a commitment to never step onto German soil and give my money to countries that supported us.

@previous poster..
good idea..
lots of things to do in Eastern Europe..
Go to POland..
Krakow is awesome..
the Baltic republics are nice too

I find what's going on in Heidelberg a little depressing.

1) I am from German-American stock. My family emigrated from Schleswig-Holstein in the 1890s, and I grew up speaking German (occasionally) at home. I took more German in high school and college, and I have tried to keep up to some extent with my language skills and the major news stories in Germany. It pains me to see such a lukewarm celebration, and this is probably a love-in compared to what you would see in Leipzig, Dresden or other German cities. Nowadays, I feel I should just be glad that my immediate bloodline got on a boat and managed to miss out on the last 100 years of German history.

2) I don't expect Germans to be constantly "grateful" for the Marshall Plan, the Berlin airlift, keeping West Germany from being ruined the way the "Ossis" were, chasing the Nazis out of power or for the bucket of money Germans make each year selling stuff to Americans (God alone knows what unemployment in Germany would be like if they didn't have the U.S. market to export to). Such long-term gratitude is expecting a lot from a nation. But it would be nice if they at least bothered to remember and be fair about the nature of their past and present political and economic relationship with the U.S.

@to steve
"God alone knows what unemployment in Germany would be like if they didn't have the U.S. market to export to"

compared to the EU the usa as export market is pretty small, and most products sold to the usa are even made in the usa........I wonder what the unemployment level of americans would be if they wouldnt sell their shit to the EU!

Americans just don't get it. The Germans were pretty happy with Hitler and the Nazis. Support for the Nazis among the German population was higher in 1938 than it was in 1933 and it was higher in 1942 than it was in 1938. They never asked for liberation and they never felt liberated, for them it was a crushing defeat and well that's what it was.

Germans were also pretty happy with the Berlin Wall, according to new polls many of them want the wall back. They had no desire for unification. The Easterners loved their socialism and the Westeners loved their half-socialism. Life wasn't bad, they had wurst and beer and healthcare in both parts of Germany.

There is just one problem for the Germans : Crazy Americans, who just don't understand the Germans.
They offend the Germans with all that talk about freedom, democracy and god . The French and the Russians don't talk like that, they know the Germans don't care for these things.

In 2002, exports of EU goods to the US amounted to €242 billion (24.3% of total EU exports), while imports from the US amounted to €175 billion (17.7% of total EU imports).


https://europa.eu.int/comm/external_relations/us/economic_relations/

As an aside, I think the US is probably in a much better position to forgo trade with the EU than the other way around. The impact would be a lot less.

The next quarter should be interesting for the economies of the euro zone.

Maybe we can address this issue again at that time.

"compared to the EU the usa as export market is pretty small, and most products sold to the usa are even made in the usa......"

I just heard that 50% of all Porches are destined for the USA.

Americans don't buy many VWs and many of those exported to the US are built in Mexico. Why would VW want to sell vehicles to the US that are made by workers who have a 35 hour work week and 6 weeks vacation, when they can sell these same vehicles produced by workers who make $5 per hour?

Where Germans make their money in the USA is by selling us high value items that the rest of the world can not afford: S and E class Mercedes; 500 and 700 class BMWs, Zeiss optical instruments, ect.

Cut out the sale of high value items to the US, and the German economy would be much worse off than now.

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