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"And we will win the war, because we are not afraid of our victory. We will be loved for our victory, and therefore we shall have it."

Certainly a very good quote concerning the outcome of WWII but what about today? Are Americans still loved for their victories? Iraq seems to tell a different story but if elections go well Dorothy Thompson's quote might still be valid.

Phil, we're fighting with the same attitude in both wars. In WWII we also had those who would sell the country out.

@ Mike H. =
You are correct. And they were from the same party running the show now. Fo to your history books and read who opposed Roosevelt.

Condi, I think that's a little too neat and pat. Roosevelt was opposed within and without his party, and the two main parties are barely recognizable by today's definitions. Prominent Democratic ambassador Joe Kennedy was fond of the Nazis, and Democratic Vice President Henry Wallace sold us out to communists. You may well counter with Republican sellouts, but that is not the point. There are those who philosophically disagree (who may be wrong and dangerous, but not self-serving) and those who sell out for personal gain (contemptible, but less dangerous). You can find both all over the political spectrum.

Sorry Assistant Village Idiot, I disagree. During WWII, at least by January of 1942, the vast majority of Republican leaders and citizens backed FDR, why do you think he won 1940?

That is NOT true today, the Democratic leadership is not only attempting to crucify the president, one of their longest seated Senators, (he of Mary Jo in the river fame), has come very close to aiding the enemy through his rhetoric.

I no longer believe they are acting in good conscience, rather they would sell out our country for possible political gain. TG the citizens that consider themselves normally Democratic, are not in total lockstep.

Sorry to go OT, but I would like some feedback on this: German justices consider trying Rumsfeld. Why are they even considering since it doesn't concern them - no Germans involved?

Thanks guys, and my apologies again.

Hitler underestimated American perserverance. He thought that we would be easily defeated, because America was "Judeofied" and "mongrelized." Of course, he was proven wrong in four years.

Read the article from Der Tagesspiegel and understand.

Note from David: Zeta alias Leon: Don't try to confuse things by referring to the full article. The article is an attempt to smear Bush-America with a reference to concentration camps. There is no doubt about this.
BTW, I already linked to the article in the posting. Why the double link?


"Read the article from Der Tagesspiegel and understand"

Er...me no speak German :-(


Your statement might be too narrow when you speak only of victories and hatred. Is it not also possible that Americans are hated for their ideals?

Musab al-Zarqawi, the "prince" of Al-Qaida in Iraq, appointed by Osama Bin Laden, came out and agreed with President Bush that the war in Iraq is really about freedom and from that freedom the idea of democracy. "We have declared a fierce war on this evil principle of democracy and those who follow this wrong ideology," Zarqawi declared in a statement. "Democracy is also based on the right to choose your religion," he said, and that is "against the rule of God."

But not to worry at this point in time America is the focus of that hatred and not Germany. You all have decided to sit this one out. You have chosen to make this not your fight.

Of course, it would seem at some point Germany is going to have to address the concept of democracy and radical Islam within it own boarders. So maybe Germany does have a stake in the outcome of what occurs in Iraq? Then if we are to believe your government leaders and the majority of Germans you do not.

If the Germans were to have legal standing to prosecute Rumsfeld for alledged torture in Iraq, then wouldn't the USA also have legal standing to prosecute Joschka Fishcer for his role in the 1975 OPEC kidnappings?


Well now that the elections have taken place, what is your opinion about the topic of this thread?

I would hope you realize as I do this is but another step on what will be a very long and dangerous road for Iraq and America and her true allies.

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