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Sheesh, they're STILL using the Blood for Oil meme? No one is listening to that over here anymore. Even the Democrats don't believe it....except for the Moonbat variety we normally see populating the Democratic Underground.

If it's all about O...I....L....

then why am I paying $2/g for primo?

"US leaders would be well-advised not to allow the ranting and raving in the German media and government to influence their policy."

I don't think Condi Rice is going to be influenced by the German media or by the rantings of an old, retired terrorist like Danny Cohen Bendit. Danny would be a great future AMC or Turner Classic host when Michael Moore's movies finally reach their last distribution.

Action alway trumps mere words and hot air.

Interesting to note that since the news of the devastating tidal wave came out on the news, the same old BS is being rehashed about the US giving the least per capita towards international aid.

The US allegedly gives only 1.5% per capita towards international aid. Germans are no better: 1.6%, the French are 1.7. Only Scandinavia comes close to the ideal international goal of developed nations: 7%

I don't know where the Euroweenies get these figures from. Does this figure take into consideration voluntary labor for an international charitable cause? My colleagues have been dueling in front of supermarkets ringing the bell for the Salvation Army. I am sure that a certain percent goes towards making sure that some kid has Christmas in Africa or South America.

Some of my old Army Reserve Units have deployed to countries like Honduras and Guatemala to perform their summer duties, building roads and schools.

It would be interesting to see a comparison between Americans and their European counterparts when it comes to giving voluntary labor towards charity.


One wonders what Speigal would really like to say about Israel - what sort of magazine covers they would use if they felt they could get away with it.

The more the American public learns about the Euro media and the opinions of most Europeans about America and Americans - the less we will care about how we are viewed in Europe.

John Kerry made many references to how we have a negative image in Europe and how it was important to change that image

What he never told us was what steps he would take to make the Parisians and Berliners like us more

Of course, the steps he would need to take - like putting the UN effectively in control of US foriegn policy - would not have gone over to well

But in considering this issue I have been of the opinion for some time that in some cases the negative image others have about you are a symptom of their sickness and not your own failings as a nation or a people

It was the case for the unfortunate jews of europe 60 years ago, what after all could they have done to improve their image?

And it is the case today when considering how our european friends dislike us here in the United States - at least those 51% of us "stupid" enough to re-elect President Bush

You are doing a great service here in attempting to force the German media to be more balanced

I can say with all honesty that I do wish for better relations with my many european friends - but not at the price of my principles, or indeed - as a New Yorker - my life

The German media will never change.

The Germans will never change.

Except when they become a Muslim nation like France!

You know what? I'm glad that the Germans and French are so thick-headed re Iraq, since both countries seem to have trouble with moral reasoning and analysis of political ideas.

They should both stay on the sidelines complaining and carping, while more healthy societies like the U.S., U.K.(I hope), and Australia go about their business spreading democracy and freedom.

Meanwhile, a major outcome of the War in Iraq is that we Americans now know the truth about our so-called Allies. Amazingly, only two or three years ago I and millions of other Americans thought the Germans and French were our friends. Now I lump them with the Russians--i.e. neither friends nor enemies--just there to be watched like any dangerous creature in one's backyard--a coyote, maybe. I wouldn't kill it, but I wouldn't pet it either.

A sea change has taken place, and Europeans will see the results a few years from now.

The German media is playing with fire in their dislike/hate for the US. Initially, German politicians thought they could control Hitler and use him for their own purposes. But the monster they helped create was beyond anyone's control.

Similarily, the media today is riding the popular anti-American wave. Whether they know it or not, they are sowing some extremely destructive seeds and nobody knows what they will reap. They don't seem to want to stop anytime soon. I realize they care only about their ideology and the sales, but do they really believe that at some point in the future they will start saying - 'Enough. Forget what we said. Americans are not so bad, in fact they're nice' - and everyone will start loving the US instead of disliking/hating it. Things like this can't be undone easily.

Latent anti-Americanism has been around for a long time, but it wasn't a mass movement. It was like TB, millions of people have the virus but they will die of old age without ever knowing it or infecting anyone. The immune system keeps it successfully under control. But when the immune system is weak, the disease manifests itself, cripples or kills the host and infects others. The media and civil society represent an important part of this immune system. When they themselves, instead of fighting, keep promoting the disease of anti-Americanism(and anti-Semitism) it is only a matter of time until the whole body will be infected.

If things don't change (and there are absolutely no signs that they will) I just can't see how those regular shots of anti-American venom will keep the EU healthy and vigorous. Open mindedness, trust, energy, determination, success can not co-exist with prejudice, disdain, moral ambivalence, superiority complexes. They contradict each other. Each one of those sets of traits lead men/societies in oposite directions. In spite of the evidence, I keep hoping that the EU will awaken someday, get out of its self-imposed darkness and join the US in the sun.

N24 is one out of two private news channels, the other is N-TV ( owned by a joint venure between CNN and the RTL Group ) N24 is owned by Pro7/Sat 1 Media AG , which was a part of the Kirch media empire, before the Kirch Group went bankrupt. Leo Kirch was well known for his staunch conservative views , his donations to the CDU and his support for the United States. So for some time N24 was the hope for conservatives to have a news channel that did not have the liberal bias of N-TV and the Public TV news. But it did not last long, Kirch Media went broke and they were looking for a buyer,another German media tycoon Heinrich Bauer was interested, but Bauer was viewed as too conservative and there was the fear he could sell part of the Pro// Sat1 Group to Rupert Murdoch's News Corp or Leo Kirch's old friend Silvio Berlusconi and his Mediset Group. That scared the hell out of the German government and the rest of the left wing Media , so they had to find a buyer with enough money to buy the entire group, who would integrate the Group into the mainstream left wing media. Of course since these people are no nationalists and Bauer was the only one interested in Germany they did not hestitate to sell Pro7/ Sat1 to a foreigner. No problem as long as it is a liberal foreigner. So they found a new owner for the company The Saban Capital Group, a media group owned by Haim Saban, an Egypt born Israeli citizen, who lives in Southern California ( he now holds dual citizenship). Mr. Saban did not only serve on President's Clinton Export Council, advising the White House on trade issues, he was also one of his biggest donators and a close friend not only to the Clintons but also to the former California Governor Gray Davis . Without any doubt Saban was the right man to take over the Media group and so far he has pleased his liberal friends in Germany. It was Saban's Pro 7 channel that aired Fahrenheit 9/11 one day before the US presidential election.

Christian ( Proud to be German )

For all those who would like to tell the people at n-24 what they think of this ad, just visit this site and drop them some lines:

http://www.n24.de/service/kontakt/

Exactly how is Germany better now than it would have been under the Soviets? I think the Russians understand the true nature of the Germans much better than we Americans do. Those who can, do; those who can't, attack the doers.

@WhatDoIKnow

Europe will become Islamic, the destructive threat is rising, the Muslim population will one day make a big part of today 450 Million Europeans, and the first of all has taken place on March 11th in Madrid with a terror attack by Islamic nihilists - and you hope "EU will awaken someday"? First must happened bad things until someone, someday, somewhere is awake. There is no such thing as a transatlantic partnership; there is almost everywhere blind hate, for the most part of the coming future, especially here in Europe. Oh my god, I cannot longer live with Germany, the German attitudes the German people, the German media. I'm an anti-German and I'm waiting for deliverance. Anybody else? Now I'm sad.


Do not forget that N24 is now owned by Haim Saban, a notorious Clinton Crony.

So this week we all have another brave german calling for the UN to put together a force to quell death in Sudan. 6 months ago clowns in germany were calling Colin Powell an exagerating fool when he and the US congress deemed the activities of the head-gear wearing islamist miltia's slaughter of the local tribesman.
13 months ago germany, the UK and a couple of french fags pranced off to the middle east to try to wrestle nukes away from tehran. 13 months later the mullahs are laughing so hard the dust is falling from the suits and ties of the euro bureaucrats. Now just last week the german ambassador to the US puts out a nursery ryhme directive to the US "to get involved, as germany is waiting impatiently". Now lets put this in perspecitive-
Germany is now begging the US to be nice to the iranian mullas and trade with them, give them technology of some sorts, and (like the euros) hope for the best when it comes to their nuke development.
Well into another year of genodice in suddan, and a german green (those people still exist?) MP is asking of the UN(!) to stop the action in Sudan.... but 6 months ago he and other euro MPs saw no real problem.
Why does this fool not volunteer to have a german force to LEAD the african UN peacekeepers? How about offering just ONE damn german plane for the african peacemakers to go into Sudan?
Come on now all you progressive knee-jerkers and Go to it all ye deutchlanders! Don't wait for another "uncle" like the US to come along to help you with getting your damn shoes on.. do it yourself!
Go forward and deploy a few hundred (of your OWN) troops and get those damn sandwichs packed! Show some damn courage or even just a little bit of forward thinking, and the world will be amazed...
-Amazed at a country who had 60 years of growth under Uncle Sam's coat and US taxpayer wallets
- amazed that the country that has the US do it's dirty work against the Serbs in their own backyard two times in just the last decade.
-amazed at a country like germany, whereby it took another nations president to implore that it's own berlin wall divinding it's citizens be torn down by the imbeciles who built it.
..yes, amazed... the world would be amazed that germany could possibly make a contribution after ALL the help it has recieved herself.
German impotence (and cunning) is truly revealed here, as Ray indicates.
It's interesting to think here for a moment.. what kind of caricature would the US media illustrate to show a german soldier? What would be in that german soldiers hand?
My bet is that it would probably be a cartoon of a german soldier hiding in his barracks, relaxing in his bunk while a war waged outside...holding his meager manhood in his hand while wanking to page 3 of Stern.


"But what are the underlying causes of this widespread bias? It is important to understand that the European left has always feared American power and sought to contain and control it. The United Nations is one of the few bodies with which Europeans can hope to influence and restrain the United States"

I think you are on the right track in focusing on the causes of this widespread bias. You attribute it to "feared American power". Frankly that is way too vague. What PRECISELY is the source of the fear? You have to lay that out in great detail in order to have any hope of addressing the fear itself. So the central question is : What do Germans fear about America? Take each fear - break it down - and then refulte it with facts. Or frankly - don't refute it - rather acknowledge it if the facts bear out. But as an American - I must admit it is very strange that so many germans entertain such conspiratorial ideas about America's intentions. Did we steal your land or something? Did we steal your natural resources? Did we rape all your women and wipe out your ethnic identity? Specifics please! Facts please! I promise I won't run from the naked truth about what we did to you!

Claudia Rossett(sp) formerly of the WSJ wrote a couple of articles on American aid.

Add in military and something else, conservatively $34 billion/yr.

Here's some stuff I saved:

Associated Press
Monday, October 27, 2003; Page A04
Contributions to the largest charities fell in 2002 for the first time in 12 years because of the troubled economy and uncertainty among donors, a new survey shows.

Donations to the 400 largest charities dropped 1.2 percent last year, to $46.9 billion from $47.5 billion in 2001, the Chronicle of Philanthropy said today in its annual survey. During the previous five years, donations increased an average of 12 percent each year.
----

Americans gave an average of $182.09 billion to charity per year during the eight years President Bill Clinton was in office, but have increased that to $239.35 billion per year in the three years President George W. Bush has been in office - an increase of 31.4 percent.
Charitable giving averaged 1.925 percent of GDP during the Clinton era, and has averaged 2.233 percent of GDP during the first three years of Bush's administration.

-----

The United States paid more than $11 billion for international peacekeeping efforts between 1992 and 1997.

...Bartlett cites a Congressional Research Service report that found that the United States paid more than $11 billion for international peacekeeping efforts between 1992 and 1997. Although the report didn't specify how much of that money had been counted as U.S. "dues" to the UN, the figure could be as low as $1.8 billion. That leaves about $9 billion worth of what the administration calls "voluntary" international peacekeeping assistance. But the $9 billion only covers assistance provided by the Department of Defense. Other federal agencies have also been ordered by the administration to support the UN, bringing the sum of uncredited payments to perhaps $15 billion.


Pato

“13 months ago germany, the UK and a couple of french fags pranced off to the middle east to try to wrestle nukes away from tehran”


13 months later, there is still appeasement. Talks, talks, talks, blah, blah, blah - and nothing result:

EU to begin trade talks with Iran as US backs engagement
Trade talks between Iran and the European Union are set to begin on January 12 as the EU drive to improve ties with Tehran gathers pace.

http://www.nytimes.com/financialtimes/international/FT20041226_6538_363489.html?pagewanted=print&position

“So this week we all have another brave german calling for the UN to put together a force to quell death in Sudan”

Hello? Who is the German media? Who is N24? Who is FAZ? Who is SPIEGEL-ONLINE? I missed such article – for the appeasers.

China Invests Heavily In Sudan's Oil Industry
Beijing Supplies Arms Used on Villagers
By Peter S. Goodman
Washington Post Foreign Service

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A21143-2004Dec22?language=printer

Henryk M. Broder writes correctly: "We wait now that a couple of activists of the German peace movement assemble before the Chinese embassy in Berlin around under the slogan "No blood for oil"! demonstrating against the Chinese Sudan politics. Until now we wait in vain."

"It is important to understand that the European left has always feared American power and sought to contain and control it. The United Nations is one of the few bodies with which Europeans can hope to influence and restrain the United States. This also explains why the Angry Left is so angry about the US not joining Kyoto and the ICC. By rejecting these agreements, the US has denied Europe two further means of checking American power and economic growth."

You pretty much cover it all with the above words my friend. The world-wide left doesn't have any problem with American power -- as long as they can control it. It also explains their anger when they can't control it; a bunch of loony little Napoleons without an army. It all reminds me for some reason of a story I read about some guy who got addicted to cocaine, which resulted in him losing his well-paid job. His state of mind was so twisted that he thought to himself, "Good. Now I can do cocaine all of the time." It's disturbing to see so many people so detached from reality.

Gak. If the UN is the "solution", what is the problem? Certainly not anything real, like stopping genocide in Sudan or organizing relief efforts after the tsunamis in SE Asia/India. The UN could really earn its weekly pay if it did something other than the usual grandstanding, but it's already blaming Bush for this and that.

Doubtless a commission will be appointed, which will spend vast amounts of money exploring the beaches of Phuket and Sri Lanka on fact-finding missions (once they're cleaned up, of course: can't possibly go somewhere dangerous), after which a hefty report will be produced. It will be presented at a five-star conference, where the assembled conferees will, in between morning snorkeling and evening pub crawling, bash the US for only giving 10x more than anyone else. Northern European countries will bask in the aura of accomplishment, proud that they "did something", while showing off nice tans and cheap trinkets they bought at the conference.

The only good effects of all of this will be to pump a few million into the economies of hard-hit tourist areas...

Hat tip! Thanks!

By the way, thanks for the information N24 and the link.

thanks for the article about Daniel Cohn-Bendit. I really ask myself how the Greens can be supported by millions of Germans. They didn't even loose support in polls, when they, Schröder and the SPD decided Hartz IV (a large social reform, not very popular at the angry left, they've found a new party now, which is even more left than the Greens and the SPD and which thinks about an alliance with the former communist party PDS).
Obviously the Greens have a big base of Gutmenschen, who vote them whenever there is an election. This will not change as the Greens have a good image
as they fight against all the evil capialists who pollute environment
as they are pacifistic and in their opinion war is only a result of "too less discussion" and alwas the worst solution.
as they fight against technologies (genetic researches for example), which might be dangerous. (by the way in 1986 they really decided to boycott computers as they seemed dangerous to them)
as they make sure that the free market can't completely develop, because this might be dangerous, too.

Did you realize something? The Greens are against many things, the USA stand for (free market, technology and research, war as a possibility in foreign policy and many other things). That's why this German government will never be able to cooperate with American policy,
as Bush doesn't sign Kyoto
as the USA start a war in Iraq (the reasons are not important for Greens, war is always wrong)
as in some American states (California, I think) genetic researches have been started
as the US economy is more free and more deregulated than any other in the world.

You see, there not much common ground for cooperation. So let's hope that the Greens will be punished by the German voters at the next election for destroying not just Germany and it's economy, but as well for destroying the good relationship between USA and Germany.

By the way, even if we wanted to help in Iraq we couldn't as our military budget is as big as the military budget of Luxmburg (in percent of the BIP) and the German army is already overload with the operations in Afghanistan and Bosnia. So the USA will have to do that alone (toghether with the UK)

"Im Namen Allahs, des Allmächtigen, des Allerbarmers

Nach einer Phase des relativen Rückgangs der Widerstandsaktivitäten, können wir - al hamdullilah - wieder eine deutliche Zunahme feststellen. Der palästinensische Widerstand ist bekannt dafür, dass er in Wellen oder eben Phasen auftritt. Der genaue Grund ist uns nicht bekannt. Spekulationen zu Folge hat es zum einen mit der Motivation, die dich aus der politischen Lage ergibt, zum anderen mit der Entdeckung und der Schliessung von Sicherheitslücken zu tun. Wahrlich, die Sperrmauer setzte den Widerstand unter Druck, jedoch nicht mehr als früher die Abriegelung der Westbank. Heute sind auch bei der Sperrmauer Schwachstellen bekannt, die das zionistische Regime nun aufzuspüren und erneut zu schliessen versucht.
Dieser Zyklus zwischen dem Finden einer Schwachstelle und deren Schliessung nennen wir Welle. Nach unserer Beurteilung ist die neuste Welle jetzt erst angebrochen, inshallah!

Wenn auch für uns, die nicht in Palästina leben, der (kleine, an der Waffe) Jihad nicht fard (Pflicht) ist, so ist es dennoch Pflicht, dass wir die Mujaheddin mit unserer Du'a unterstützen. Die Du'a ist die mächtigste Waffe auf Erden. Je mehr sie die Muslime anwenden, umso mehr kommt Allahs Wohlgefallen über sie.

Ma Salamaa

Auf der Suche nach GOTT, ALLAH? --> AL Islam - ISLAM Portal in deutscher Sprache"
http://pro-plo.org/

Europa muß wachsam sein. Keine Toleranz gegen Terror. Auch unsere Dummheit hat Grenzen.

"The German media will never change.

The Germans will never change.

Except when they become a Muslim nation like France!"

So interessant seid ihr dann auch nicht.

Laut einer Umfrage waren 44 % der US-Amerikaner dafür, Rechte der Muslime
in ihrem Land einzuschränken. Und wenn man hier was gegen Muslime sagt, heisst es sofort wieder: NAZIS. Übrigens leben bei euch mehr Muslime...

@pato
you really make me laugh, no wonder germans hate redneck-idiots like you.......haha saying germans are cowards, well at least we had the balls to fight alone against the whole world in 2 wars, allthough we lost but we had the balls. americans always need "allies" even in such joke-wars like the iraq one........if americans are in big trouble they run......see somalia! I dont think you americans are the BRAVE people!

@caroline
What do Germans fear about America?
No one here fears america, we never did, we never will! I dont know why americans think that!

I'm glad that we have remotely something like a free press. Bush wouldn't have had a chance of being re-elected in any country in the world. That he won just shows how uninformed the American public is.

"@caroline
What do Germans fear about America?
No one here fears america, we never did, we never will! I dont know why americans think that!
Posted by: | December 28, 2004 02:18 PM":

To anonymous - I was responding to Ray's post about Germans' fear of American power. I guess I was wondering what precisely they thought we would use our power for that is so inherently frightening! (Believe me - I don't want us to use our power for something nefarious either!) But evidently you don't agree with the fundamental premise. So what in your opinion DOES account for the pervasive anti-American press bias in Germany?

It is only a matter of time before Germans awaken to their own Rathergate. Brave is standing up to Big Brother in Old Media, the commonon person now has the power to fight back.

By the way, at least the majority of Americans understand that most countries around the world do not have free elections.

"So what in your opinion DOES account for the pervasive anti-American press bias in Germany?"

That´s your problem:

German Media is NOT Germany and its people.

"So what in your opinion DOES account for the pervasive anti-American press bias in Germany?"

It is a misconception that the German media is anti-American - even if this blog wants to make you think so. I have talked to many people on the political left and most of them think that our media are too pro-American. As a centrist I think they're both wrong. Our press is anti-Bush, no doubt about that. On the other hand it paints very favourable picture of the United States and its people. I don't remember that I've read any bad word about the president when his name was Bill Clinton. In fact, our mainstream media always defended him against the vicious attacks from right.

"That´s your problem:" (Anonymous)

Well - thank you for your insight! Transatlantic dialogue is most useful! Generally, I would say that here in America, we think that our own press bias is indeed our problem, but hey - if we could get away with passing the buck for it - that would be really cool!

So Tom - you have stated clearly that the German press is merely anti-Bush. Actually we in the US do tend to think that this anti-American sentiment preceeded Bush. But taking your statement at face value, is this due primarily to the war in Iraq? To Bush's unapologetic use of American power? Because then that would harken back to Ray's original point - about fear of American power. Or something related to that. Please don't tell me its because the Germans think Bush is an idiotic "cowboy". Thats about as stale as the "cheese-eating" Frenchies line.

@Caroline

I really think that almost religious anti-Bushism started with the Iraq war. Before, many have been critical about him, especially because he was not elected by the majority of the American people and denied to sign the Kyoto treaty.

But I think the majority was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially after 9/11. I don't remember any harsh criticism from our bad, bad press of how he handled the situation in the aftermath of the attacks. The invasion of Afghanistan was backed by a majority of the people as well as by the mainstream media.

Again: I don't think there's any widespread anti-Americanism. But maybe we have a different definition of that term. True, there's a lot of criticism of Americas policies, especially of the ones of the Bush-Administration. But that's just politics and says nothing about our feeling towards the country itself.

@ George

Here's some research I did a while back on charitable giving and volunteer work.


Charitable giving in the USA is 2% of the GDP.
US GDP 2003 was $10,881,609,000,000.
US Charitable Giving in 2003 amounted to $200 Billion.

German charitable giving in 2000 is roughly €5 Billion.
German GDP 2003 amounted to $2,400,655,000,000
Assuming the €5 Billion figure has not changed, charitable giving in Germany equals .002 percent of German GDP.
Germany would have give $50 billion to give the same amount US citizens do. That is Germany would have to give ten times as much as she presently does to be even with US charitable contributions.


http://fundraising.bizkitt.de/Fundraising_30951.html
Einschließlich der Zuwendungen von privaten Stiftungen (aber ohne Erbschaften) wird das steuerlich erfasste jährliche Spendenaufkommen für 2000 auf 3,2 Mrd Euro geschätzt. Einschließlich des steuerlich nicht erfassten Spendenaufkommens soll es bei 4 bis 5 Mrd. Euro liegen

In the US according to the latest reports the US has a poverty level of 12.2%. This is defined as a family of 2 adults and 2 children making less than $18660 a year.

According to EU and German data the German poverty level is 16% i.e. 1 percent below the European average.

http://www.schader-stiftung.de/gesellschaft_wandel/446.php#oben

According to the Social Watch report

A German family of 2 adults and 2 children in 1998 was considered to be under the poverty level using the 50% Median (which has changed to 60% Median but I was not yet able to find more recent data) earning DM 2512 a month. Using the exchange rate of DM 1.8 to the $1 this is $16.746 a year.

While it is not scientific to compare the 1998 with 2003 I think we can agree that the laws and definitions of poverty are being corrected downwards in Germany.
A family of 2 adults and 2 children:

Poverty Level
1998 Germany $16.746 annually
2003 USA $18.660 annually

Proverty Quota
2003 USA 12.2%
1996 Germany 16%

http://www.eed.de/fix/publica/Social-Watch.PDF

The depth and compassion of our (US) social systems which is defined as a partnership between the government, the private sector and the private cititzen invested i.e. gave $200 Billion in private capital 2% of the GDP, and 19,9 Billion hours in voluntary services which is an estimated macroeconomic value of $225,9 Billion.

@ Tom:

"The invasion of Afghanistan was backed by a majority of the people as well as by the mainstream media."

Really? Then how do you explain this?

The Afghanistan Trap: America's Unholy Bombing War and the Ghost of Vietnam

This was the cover of Der Spiegel less than 3 months after September 11.

---Ray D.

@ Caroline:

That answer of theirs is a cop out. They always use it, " we dont hate Americans, we just hate their government". Thats like saying, "I am not a racist some f my best friends are black".

With Bush's re-election they can no longer hide behind that, and they know it.

The truth is usually the simple answer.

Do you see how they only take issue with the US when the US uses its power without European approval? As stated many times they had no issue when Clinton used american power to clean up a European mess. Nor do they have an issue with it, when they decide the UN should lead an intervention into say Somalia.

What they hate and fear is the US going out alone. You see they dont spend much on their military. Nor do they have the will to defend their freedoms or ideals. They did not defend them in WWII. They either were the agressors or they waited until the UK and the US came in to help.

So it boils down to the simplest answer. Europe does not want, nor can afford, a state of the art military. They do want to control the US military. They can do this through the UN, and adding things like the ICC would be even better. This way they get all the benefits of the best Military in the world, and they get it for FREE. And even better they do not have to shed one drop of blood. and the icing on the cake is if things go wrong, they can blame the Americans.

They can not lose. So long as America continues to protect them, and use its military as a defacto euro defense force, the Europeans will continue to be shrill in their accusations against America, if america goes off on its own.

This is all about getting something for nothing, and all they have to do to get their way is to brow beat us back in line. Because they all know how sensitive those dumb Americans are, I mean, would France or Germany care one whit what we thought if the tables were reversed? NO. They would be telling us that the fact that they have the power is proof that they know better.

Get out of NATO, before it is too late.

@ Ray D.

I would have to read the whole articles of that cover-story to give you an answer. All I can say is that I didn't notice a strong oppsosition from our media against the war in Afghanistan. That doesn't mean that there was none at all.

@ Tom,

I attended a Green party meeting in Schwabach with the director of the German-American Institute in Nuremberg shortly before the Afghanistan war began. The (then) director of the Bavarian Greens, Mr. Montag was there. Not one of the Greens there supported intervention in Afghanistan. They believed we could resolve things "peacefully" with the Taliban and UBL. These are the same sort of people who voted in the German government and dominate the German media.

Scary stuff. I would simply ask you (Tom) not to kill the messenger (Davids Medienkritik) for daring to report on it.

---Ray D.

So Tom,

If so much of Germany was behind military action in Afghanistan, why did Schroeder feel the need to force a vote of confidence on his government (which his Red-Green coalition barely survived) on November 16, 2001?

Bundeskanzler Schröder stellt Vertrauensfrage.

This was barely two months after September 11. One of the major problems in Germany is that there is an immediate opposition to the use of ANY form of military force, no matter how just and necessary it is. This is due in part to Germany's past, but is also due to the power wielded by former '68 anti-war activists throughout the Red-Green coalition and the media.

Great piece of satire, tom. I was laughing.

-- would have to read the whole articles of that cover-story to give you an answer. All I can say is that I didn't notice a strong oppsosition from our media against the war in Afghanistan. That doesn't mean that there was none at all.--

Afghanistan was a bone to keep US quiet. I love the revisionism.

Maybe the German media was quieter than usual, but I seem to recall of course you can attack Afghanistan, we'll just tell you where, when and how. In short, my peoples' blood and money and doing the hard lifting.


@ Ray D.

I live in Nuremberg and am a frequent visitor to the DAI. :-)

Anyway... Of course most the Greens had a hard time to support a military intervention. This has nothing to do with Anti-Americanism, but with the pacifist past of that party. You know that many are saying that the Green Party has betrayed its cause by legitimizing military interventions. You know that Joschka Fischer was called a war-monger and was attacked with a color bag because of his support of military intervention during the war in Kosovo. You know that the American Green Party harshly critizized the course of their German friends. And still they've chosen to do what they thought was right. I've never voted for the Greens and I don't think I ever will. But they've gone a long way during the past 20 years.

But what makes you think that the media is dominated by them? Which media do you mean? It would be new to me that ZDF, Die Welt; FAZ or Bild are bastions of the liberal left.

About the Iraq-war: According to the latest polls, the majority of Americans now thinks that it was wrong. Call me crazy, but isn't that a sign that the worlds opposition to that war was and is right?

The last one was from me. Sorry, I forgot my name.

@ Ray D.

-- If so much of Germany was behind military action in Afghanistan, why did Schroeder feel the need to force a vote of confidence on his government (which his Red-Green coalition barely survived) on November 16, 2001? --

Why? Because of his Green coalition partner, who - with about 10% of the vote - clearly doesn't represent the majority of the German public.

@ Sandy P.

-- Maybe the German media was quieter than usual, but I seem to recall of course you can attack Afghanistan --

WE attacked Afghanistan. The German military was and is involved in that invasion.

Addition: According to a poll mentioned by "Die Welt", 64% of the German public supported the war against Afghanistan.

@ Anonymous,

It obviously wasn't only the Green coalition partner that had a problem, otherwise Schroeder would have passed the vote of confidence by a wide margin. Many in his own party, (the SPD) also opposed him.

As far as the American people being split on Iraq and Bush, sure, that is a normal part of democracy, these numbers go up and down a few points every now and then. But you don't see the extreme sorts of poll numbers in the USA that you see in Germany, for example Bush having a 4% approval rating or 31% of all young people under 30 thinking the US government was behind September 11. I don't know what the exact number is for Germans who approve of Iraq, but I am also sure it is nowhere in the 40 to 50% range as it is in the states. I would guess that it is something between 5 and 15%.

In terms of poll numbers determining that something is right or wrong, well, I don't subscribe to that view. I believe the US public is watching the same sort of defeatist reporting that Germans are watching (albeit milder) and rarely seeing the positive things going on in Iraq. Positive news just don't sell, if it bleeds it leads. That doesn't mean the media is giving us an accurate portrayal of reality in Iraq. It also doesn't mean they have adequately informed us on what happened in Iraq under Saddam Hussein.

For example, how many times in history have 50 million people been militarily freed from Fascist, extremist governments with such a low cost in life? My purpose is not to minimize the losses, but to put this all into some historic perspective. Again, the US has lost around 1,300 men, and this is being called a massive disaster and debacle by the German media. The US lost 19,000 men killed in the Battle of the Bulge alone...so what was that? The US lost over 300,000 soldiers killed in WWII, something like 50,000 in Korea...let's get some historic context here people!

@ Tom,

SPIEGEL reported on a poll immediately following September 11 where 58% supported German military action against those who perpetrated the terror attacks. Obviously, among Germany's leftists (ie, those running the country as part of the Red-Green coalition), the number supporting military action was far lower than 58%. Clearly, the Red-Green coalition has long represented a left-wing minority in Germany, but unfortunately, it is a minority that has been running the country for several years now and that also dominates the German media.

Here is the article you refer to:

http://www.welt.de/data/2003/02/04/38897.html

Only 9% of Germans favored the liberation of Iraq from Saddam's Fascism despite his refusal to follow international law and respect 17 UN resolutions. In the US something like 75% of the people supported liberating Iraq in the same time period (in the month leading up to the war).

---Ray D.

The german army was NOT involved in any invasion of afghanistan. they are there for "clean up" and peace keeping operations. Just look at the debate that occurred over how, why and when to go to Khost to patrol. I believe the army was stifled by the union labor negotiations between parties. No german should "wave" the presence of german troops in afghanistan as some time of vindication for other impotencies shown by the german govt. You have 2000 troops there, a truly negligible amount considering the afghanis had their first election in a 5000 year history after the US knocked the turbans from the taliban. 2000 troops would not even be enough for participation in the german dream vacation-land of Haiti. I never saw any desire on the part of germans to want to test out their special forces in the mountains anywhere within afghanistan. You claim to have a great presence in bosnia, yet you just took over command of a force you should have done to begin with. Why did europe need the US to come to the rescue 2 times in just the last decade? What was it that made any euro action in sarajevo or kosovo impossible without US men, woman and it's technologies and it's money? This impotence truly explains the current child-like posture of the german media and government. It's the oldest psycho-social behavior that's been exhibited by fools for centuries when they are faced with their own desperate and boring existence.
So while we all marvel at a depiction of a US soldier holding a gas pump in his hand, lets all then keep this in mind- it is quite evident that several economic and cultural impotents such as germany and france are simply trying to trip the US up in it's current global campaign against the jihadis, while germany and france try to stroke and coddle the muslim populations to squeeze more tax monies to fund welfare systems from them, and in order to get further under the robes of the mullhas- be they in tehran, sudan, or libya.
I think that both french and german citizens should keep this in mind- BOTH of your countries could drop off the face of the planet tomorrow and not one soul would miss either of you.
Think about that- your two countries go away, and no one notices at all. The little bearded jihadis would have to find another welcome home for themselves, so I guess it is only they who would miss you.
The bland cowards behind the schroeder and chirac "government" are putting forth policies that once again affecting the lives of young American woman and men as it gives comfort and motivates the jihadis.
In short order this will come back to bloody the living hell out of the countries of germany and france.
To the anonymous poster above who called me a red-neck- well little man, I live in the west not the south, I have spend many many months in germany over the years giving seminars trying to bring your country out of it's technological cave. I have spend an insane amount of time among your film makers and directors watching them as they clamor for tax welfare dollars to fund productions. There is truly something wrong when an "artistic" talent needs welfare money to fund a project. Is anyone aware of any international awards for either german technology, german media or movies? How about music? I do know that the german tuba sound is embraced heavily in northern Mexico by the groupo de bandas and norteno musicians, other than that I am not sure of any awards or merits or embrace of any cultural icons from germany other than beer. I think that was invented in czechoslavakia.
You germans used to pay $25,000 per group and $150 USD per person to hear me speak and make note of my technological visions, and now I am called a red neck by a kid whose been educated by the german media.
I love it.

@ Ray D.

-- Only 9% of Germans favored the liberation of Iraq from Saddam's Fascism despite his refusal to follow international law and respect 17 UN resolutions. In the US something like 75% of the people supported liberating Iraq in the same time period (in the month leading up to the war). In the US something like 75% of the people supported liberating Iraq in the same time period (in the month leading up to the war). --

But what is the reason for this descrepency? Wasn't this overwhelming support by the American public a result from massive government propaganda? From an American media that didn't fulfill its role as a watchdog and missed to inform the public about the true backgrounds of this conflicts? The New York Times and the Washington Post later apologized for not being critical enough during that period of time. I guess the approval-numbers would have been much lower if they had been more critical. Right now, the approval-rating for this war dropped to an all-time low and I don't see it going up anytime soon.

Personally, I've always believed in military solutions when necessary (Afghanistan, Kosovo, the first Gulf War...), but I still don't find any good reasons to defend this one.

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