« Multi-Cultural Society Loses Appeal to German Left | Main | The Silence of the German Media Lambs »

Comments

Check out the videos on MEMRI, you hear shit like this all the time.

...they shave their armpits?

Heck they would go ape crazy in some places since the women braid the hair under their armpits LOL. We are after all talking about a cult that proscribes how one is to deal with the act of defecation and cleaning up afterwards. Not doing it properly is a major sin that can keep you out islamic heaven.

Yes German needs to wake up with the rest of Europe. Soon you will be living under their laws. They count on your ignorance of what they preach and teach. They rely on your lack of knoweledge of their cults true thoughts about you as their inferiors.

Wake up!

And remember, when they say "peace" and "freedom" they don't mean what we mean when we say those words. Afterall, how can one have peace and freedom without Islam?

"Europe will be islamic in 2100."

Sounds a little bit like
"All german forests will be destroyed by pollution in 2000."
"I think there is a world market of maybe 5 computers".

Let's add it here in 2100.

@ChomskyBot: Some European Cities will be islamic by 2010, e.g. in the Netherlands und Sweden, i.e. they will have a muslim-majority population. It's simple trend analysis over a relatively short term. The problem with long-term trend analysis is that unforeseen developments can change the trend. The followings developments could change the demographic trend which would lead to an islamisation of Europe:
- mass conversion of Muslims (unlikely since conversion is prohibited by muslim religion, converts are often killed or punished by relatives even in Europe. Christianity, Agnostisim, Atheism and other religions and philosophies are lacking the will to convert Muslims.)
- Mass emigration of european Muslims (very unlikely. Why should someone from Algeria leave comfortable Europe)
- strong increase of non-Muslim birthrate (seems to be very unlikely.)

I can't see any other event which would change the trend. Chomskybot, you must have something in mind which leads you to be sceptical about the forecast of an islamic Europe. What exactly makes you sceptical? I hope you're not one of the proponents of denial who simply refuse to acknowledge this threatening development.

Very interesting... I'd like to know what's being said in American mosques.

Hizb ut-Tahrir urges holy war

The Danish section of the fundamentalist Islamic organisation Hizb ut-Tahrir has called on Muslims to go to Iraq and fight a holy war against American forces there.

In a leaflet handed out in a mosque in a suburb of Copenhagen and dated 8th November, the organisation urges Danish Muslims to go and “help your brothers in Fallujah and wipe out your rulers if they get in your way”.

Furthermore the leaflet accuses Iraq’s interim Prime Minister, Lyad Allawi, of being a traitor and threatens soldiers in the Iraqi army with hell if they don’t turn their weapons against the Americans.

An expert in freedom of speech at Denmark’s School of Journalism believes the leaflet is illegal.

Justice Minister, Lene Espersen, has confirmed that the police are already investigating the matter. The result could be that the Justice Minister again considers the possibility of having the organisation dissolved in Denmark.

http://www.dr.dk/nyheder/fremmedsprog/English/article.jhtml?articleID=214163

A dwarf is awakening in Europe : terrorists watch your shoelaces!

Actually, not at all.

It's always great fun to hear Germanys leading member of the loonie left Hans-Christian Ströbele support everything that is anti-American. He is a true Quisling just wainting to handover the keys to the Cologne dome to a muslim mufti so that he can make a mosque out of it.
Naturally Ströbele probably still believes that the muslims of Germany can be converted - to socialism that is...
Otherwise I really cant understand what his thoughts as a atheist (what by definition of extremist imams is reason enough for him to be seen as worthless and even killed) thinks.

Aus dem Artikel "Innenansichten der Friedensbewegung" von Simon Wunder ein wichtiger Aspekt, der Augen öffnet:

"Die Vorgängerorganisationen der Grünen sammelten beispielsweise Spenden, um kommunistische Guerillas weltweit zu fördern (Rupert von Plottnitz, späterer Minister in Hessen: »Haut den Amis eins aufs Ohr - Waffen für El Salvador!«). Die kommunistischen Regime in Angola, Simbabwe, Mosambik oder auch in Äthiopien wurden ebenso unterstützt wie jene in Nordvietnam, Nicaragua und in der Volksrepublik China. Auch die Politik de Irak fand unterstützung: Schon 1991 rechtfertigte der grüne Bundestagsabgeordnete Christian Ströbele die irakischen Raketenangriffe auf israelische Bevölkerungszentren als »logische, fast zwingende Konsequenz der Politik Israels.«"

http://www.henryk-broder.de/php/druck.php?datei=fr_wunder.html

These Germans, these atheists, these Europeans don't shave under their arms and their sweat collects under their hair with a revolting smell and they stink.

Stink? It's a rich, manly flavor.

If Germans smell so bad, why does France have their noses firmly emplanted in Germany's ass?

With 15,000,000 (15 million) Muslims living in Europe, some of them who were too radical for their own countries, what do you expect? Gee, thanks Germany for giving me sanctuary. Get real, wake up and smell the coffee.

"If Germans smell so bad, why does France have their noses firmly emplanted in Germany's ass?"

It's actually the other way around ;)

The German Immam is being disingenous at best, at worst he has been in Germany far too long and forgotten that overpowering stank one is assaulted with as a rider in an Arabic drivers taxi.

@Simon:
Some European Cities will be islamic by 2010, e.g. in the Netherlands und Sweden, i.e. they will have a muslim-majority population. It's simple trend analysis over a relatively short term. The problem with long-term trend analysis is that unforeseen developments can change the trend.

OK, now we're talking about cities. This might in fact become a problem for some cities, but it will not automatically change a nation's political agenda. Will the U.S. policy towards China immediately change when New York has a chinese majority? I guess not.

I can't see any other event which would change the trend. Chomskybot, you must have something in mind which leads you to be sceptical about the forecast of an islamic Europe. What exactly makes you sceptical? I hope you're not one of the proponents of denial who simply refuse to acknowledge this threatening development.

I think there might be a fourth option, and I think it's the most probable one. Maybe you don't see it because you are also religious and cannot imagine people living without religion.
Yes, it's losing the interest in Islam and becoming less religious.
They will still call themselves Muslims, but they will follow the rules of Islam less and less strictly. This happens already. And I think this is even more likely to happen in a secular environment.
Islam is quite intolerant to people leaving it, but it's not that intolerant towards people exercising it sloppily.

This just in : "Dwarf bites Terrorist!"

Großartiger Artikel von Simon Wunder! Hier nur ein kleiner Auszug:

"Felicia Langer, Trägerin des Alternativen Friedensnobelpreis, vertrat zunächst die These, daß der Staat Israel sich aus völkerrechtlichen Gründen umgehend und ohne Sicherheitsgarantien aus allen von ihm kontrollierten Gebieten zurückzuziehen habe. Ihre These beruht auf der in der Friedensbewegung verbreiteten Unkenntnis des Inhalts der Resolution 242 des VN Sicherheitsrates. Diese ruft nicht, wie Frau Langer meint, zur allgemeinen Räumung »der Gebiete« auf, sondern zum Rückzug aus »Gebieten« unter Berücksichtung israelischer Sicherheitsinteressen nach dem erfolgreichen Abschluß von Friedensverhandlungen. Präzendenzfall hierfür ist die israelische Räumung des Sinai im Rahmen des Friedensvertrages mit Ägypten."

Das wissen doch viele Journalisten bis heute nicht.
Kann man daran nichts ändern?


Mitterrand ließ 1500 prominente Franzosen bespitzeln, um sein Privatleben zu schützen. Wer das Bush gewesen, wäre das in allen Nachrichten für Wochen Hauptthema geworden. Aber so! Netter Artikel ohne böse Worte.

Europa muß der Welt ein Beispiel geben
15 Jahre nach der Wende braucht die Demokratie mehr denn je eine engagierte Zivilgesellschaft

von Vaclav Havel

"... Gleichzeitig müssen die Politiker in den demokratischen Ländern ernsthaft über eine Reform der internationalen Institutionen nachdenken, denn wir benötigen verzweifelt Institutionen, die zu echter globaler politischer Führung fähig sind. Wir könnten z.B. mit den Vereinten Nationen beginnen, die in ihrer gegenwärtigen Form ein Relikt der Lage kurz nach Ende des Zweiten Weltkriegs sind. Sie reflektieren nicht den Einfluß neuer Regionalmächte und setzen in unmoralischer Weise Länder, deren Vertreter demokratisch gewählt sind, mit solchen gleich, deren Vertreter nur für sich selber oder bestenfalls für ihre Juntas sprechen.

Wir, als Europäer, haben eine ganz spezielle Aufgabe. Die industrielle Zivilisation, die heute die ganze Welt umspannt, hat ihren Ursprung in Europa. Alle ihre Wunder, aber auch ihre schrecklichen inneren Widersprüche lassen sich als Folgen eines Ethos erklären, das ursprünglich europäisch war. Die Vereinigung Europas sollte deshalb ein Beispiel für die übrige Welt setzen, wie den verschiedenen Gefahren und Schrecken, die uns heute zu verschlingen drohen, zu begegnen ist.

Tatsächlich wäre eine solche, mit dem Erfolg der Europäischen Integration eng verbundene Aufgabe eine authentische Erfüllung des europäischen Empfindens weltweiter Verantwortung - und eine erheblich bessere Strategie, als die verschiedenen Probleme unserer modernen Welt einfach auf Amerika zu schieben."

Copyright: Project Syndicate, November 2004. Aus dem Englischen von Jan Neumann

Artikel erschienen am Mi, 17. November 2004

--OK, now we're talking about cities. This might in fact become a problem for some cities, but it will not automatically change a nation's political agenda. Will the U.S. policy towards China immediately change when New York has a chinese majority? I guess not.--

Just because one is of Chinese heritage does not make one Chinese.

Depends on how well one is assimilated. The Hispanics will find out the hard way they don't have as much power as they think when we're attacked. The borders will close.


@Chomskybot
>OK, now we're talking about cities. This might >in fact become a problem for some cities, but it >will not automatically change a nation's >political agenda.

It may chance a nation's political agenda if islamic extremists manage to organize a future muslim majority. I doubt whether France would be able to pursue a more Israel-friendly policy even under present conditions. And, of course, Muslims are voters, too. Expect islamic parties as soon as the number of muslim citizens reaches a certain proportion of the population.

>I think there might be a fourth option, and I >think it's the most probable one. Maybe you >don't see it because you are also religious and >cannot imagine people living without religion.
>Yes, it's losing the interest in Islam and >becoming less religious.
>They will still call themselves Muslims, but >they will follow the rules of Islam less and >less strictly. This happens already.

I wasn't always a religious person. I still recall the horrors of my life as an indidel...
You are correct, the secularization of the muslim population would be another scenario. A few weeks ago, the Center for Turkish Studies in Essen conducted a survey which clearly showed that this is NOT happening in Germany. A growing number of Turkish people here regard themselves as more religious than in the past. This is not neccessarily a problem, but I'm afraid being more religious means being more islamist in this context.

The problem is that "secularity" is rather weak when compared with a healthy organized religion. The "Dutch Problem" isn't how to "secularize" the Muslims, but how to allow those who practice religion to navigate in a greater, pluralistic society. "Political Correctness" and pretending that one's society is some sort of value-free tabula rasa isn't the answer, IMO.

The reason it has worked in Europe, IMO, is because Christianity in Europe has become "institutionalized" into dotage. Oddly, the fact that Church and State are separate in the US is why Church is so much healthier. Islam in Europe _isn't_ institutionalized, so it's far more vibrant (for better or worse) than Christianity.

I really don't understand.

If europe chooses to take no action, then why worry about it. They can live in their own world.

If they do not see a threat to their way of life, why should some other nation attempt to explain that threat to them.

None of this makes any sense to me.

I am just indifferent to the whole thing.

The predictable landscape of europe under islam will look Afghanistan under the control of the Taliban.

When the muslims have killed the goose that's been laying all of the golden eggs (social welfare) they will find themselves right back in the hell holes they immigrated from.

But then again europeans don't seem to mind the
direction they're headed in at the moment. Nor do they seem to be alarmed at the fact they are losing their culture, history and fairly high level of living.

Maybe when the beautiful art work, statuary, architect, cemetaries, etc are destroyed they will belatedly realize what they've done to themselves.

Then again, maybe not.

Welche Drogen musst man eigentlich nehmen, um solche Vorschläge auf das Parkett zu bringen?

Ströbele bleibt in Feierlaune

Christian Ströbele will unbedingt feiern. Nachdem der Bundestagsabgeordnete der Grünen für seinen Vorschlag, in Deutschland einen islamischen Festtag einzurichten, einhellige Ablehnung kassiert hatte, plant er um. Nun plädiert er für einen "Feiertag der Weltreligionen", um die Integration von Ausländern zu fördern.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,328409,00.html

Ich werde wohl deutsche Politiker nie ernsthaft verstehen, wie man nur derart verblendet oder naiv sein kann.

"Looks like the German media wake up to the dangers posed by islamic fundamentalists."

...

"Well, not all folks seem to be up to the challenge: Green MP asks for Islamic public holiday in Germany. Hans-Christian Stroebele,"...

Up to what challenge?

Off-Topic: Hat hier jemand eigentlich rein zufällig ein Weltwoche-Abo, um Zugang zu folgenden Artikel zu bekommen?

Null Toleranz
Von Richard Herzinger

Gegen den politischen Islamismus hilft kein Dialog der Kulturen. Die Werte der offenen Gesellschaft sind mit den radikalen Lehren unvereinbar.

http://www.weltwoche.ch/artikel/?AssetID=9277&CategoryID=66

del.

Note from David: Wir drohen hier nicht, Q.

As someone who spent many years in Germany I really enjoy reading your sites analysis of the German media and their anti-American agenda. Living there in was depressing reading the very one sided news. My pro-War views were not well received at all.

However in my experience the media could quickly switch into anti-Muslim mode, or whatever anti-Auslander was in vogue, when it suited then. I quickly came to see German anti-Americanism as part of a general xenophobia.

Your post equating a politicans suggestion of an Islamic holiday in Germany with terrorism really degrades this whole website and exposes you as a bigot.

In a country of over 3 million muslims where religious holidays are also public holidays, why shouldn't you have ONE Islamic holiday?

Also some reporters in a mosque recording these comments and you all holding it up as proof of the views of muslims is offensive.

There are TWO public channels in Germany?

3Sat, ARD, Arte, B3, HR, KiKa, MDR, NDR, Phoenix, RBB, SWR, WDR, ZDF...

Perhaps David should have a closer look at German media before criticizing.

Note from David: There are just two public channels in Germany: ARD and ZDF. All the other you mention are either regional subsidiaries of ARD (HR, MDR...), or cooperations of ARD resp. ZDF with foreign channels (3Sat, Arte). Kika is the mutual children programme of ARD and ZDF.

The post combined with the "Update 1" is racist. It suggests that the threat coming from terrorists (or the challenge that Germany faces with this terror) is indeed coming from all Muslims (that would benefit from an Islamic public holiday).

Instead of noting this the people visiting and commenting made other racist remarks:

Dennis calls Islam a cult: "... We are after all talking about a cult that proscribes..."

anonymus posts: "The German Immam is being disingenous at best, at worst he has been in Germany far too long and forgotten that overpowering stank one is assaulted with as a rider in an Arabic drivers taxi."

Sandy P. writes: "... It may chance a nation's political agenda if islamic extremists manage to organize a future muslim majority. ..." again calling the muslim majority extemists.

Joe is very open about his racism: "... When the muslims have killed the goose that's been laying all of the golden eggs (social welfare) they will find themselves right back in the hell holes they immigrated from. ..." No comment here! The rest of his post also suggest extreme racist views.

"Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten, habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten, habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten, habe ich geschwiegen,
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie mich holten, gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte."

Nie wieder!

My post???

I beg to differ! My comment was about the choices Europe has. They can do something (am not really sure what) or they can choose not to do anything.

I am indifferent to either of their choices, just as I am indifferent to what actions they take or do not take.

Am not sure how you get racism out of any of those comments.

I have the same level of interest about the concerns of europe that europe has shown toward the US.

I have hope that the Dutch will work it out, if allowed by the EU. I do not think either the french or the Germans have a clue.

Hello, come and meet a German "Oberlehrer" -Ausrufezeichen!

>Sandy P. writes: "... It may chance a nation's >political agenda if islamic extremists manage >to organize a future muslim majority. ..." >again calling the muslim majority extemists.

She does? Either your reading skills are a bit challenged or you just see what you want to see.

You seem to be a little racist yourself, since you seem to imply that all Muslims are of a single race and/or that all people of Turkish/Arab/Persian decent are indeed Muslims, which they are not.

Anyway, you seem to get the whole Nazi policy wrong. It was never about religion, it was always about "race". Tell me, exactly how many converted Germans of "Aryan" heritage ended up being gassed, and how many Catholics/Protestants/etc. with Jewish ancestors did? Hmm? See the light already?

>"Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten, habe ich >geschwiegen;
>ich war ja kein Kommunist.
>
>Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten, habe >ich geschwiegen;
>ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.
>
>Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten, habe ich >geschwiegen,
>ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

>Als sie mich holten, gab es keinen mehr, der >protestieren konnte."

This quote is rich. Note the glaring absence of Jews, Gipsies, Gays and others that really made out the majority of victims of the Nazis.

There were some exceptions, but union members, and the social democrat voter base converted in droves to national socialism... as for the communists, well most of them converted to Stalinism, the difference of which to Nazism is nearly imperceptible.

>Nie wieder!

Exactly. That is why Islamofascism has to be fought NOW.

Wehret den Anfängen.

Anonymous Coward.


Das Zitat ist von Martin Niemoeller:
http://www.martin-niemoeller-stiftung.de/

@Ausrufezeichen:

Ist mir schon klar; das Zitat existiert allerdings in vielen Variationen. Die von Dir gewählte Variante (freiwillig oder unfreiwillig) zeichnet sich aber, wie ich oben schon erwähnte, durch das vollkommene Fehlen der "Hauptopfergruppen" des Nationalsozialismus aus. Daher wirkt es auf mich zynisch.

Letztlich ging es mir in meiner Antwort auf Dein Posting aber nicht darum, sondern um Deine meiner Einschätzung nach falsche Betrachtung einiger Postings in diesem Thread.

Einige schießen über das Ziel hinaus, jedoch ist Kritik am Islam und insbesondere an der daraus erwachsenden Ideologie nicht nur zulässig, sondern überaus notwendig, da viel zu lange vernachlässigt.

Die meisten der in Deutschland lebenden Muslime sind türkischer Herkunft; deswegen wird - hauptsächlich von linker Seite - Kritik am Islam gerne mal mit Rassismus verwechselt und ebenso gerne mit dem Hinweis auf die Judenverfolgung im Dritten Reich versehen. Dabei ging es damals eben nicht, wie ich auch schon geschrieben habe, um Religion, sondern um die eingebildete "Rassenverschiedenheit".

Es gibt ganz sicher einige Trittbrettfahrer, die Kritik am Islamismus zu einem allgemeinen "Ausländer raus!" umformulieren. Darum geht es allerdings nicht.

Es geht darum, endlich das Tabu einer ernsthaften Auseinandersetzung mit den Glaubensinhalten des Islam zu brechen - am besten zusammen mit selbstkritischen und aufgeklärten Muslimen, notfalls auch ohne. Denn gerade diesen droht ja das meiste Ungemach aus den Reihen ihrer radikalen Glaubensbrüder.

Was ist falsch daran, die Finanzierung von Moscheen, Imamen, Schulen etc. durch Saudi-Arabien zu kritisieren und in Frage zu stellen?
Ergoogle Dir mal die Lehrinhalte der Schulbücher an der König-Fahd-Akademie, es gab eine Studie der Schulaufsichtsbehörde NRW dazu, die - warum wohl? - noch unter Verschluss gehalten wird; trotzdem haben FAZ und der FOCUS Auszüge veröffentlicht. Vor diesem Hintergrund wird Sandy P.'s Aussage überaus verständlich, da sie ja eben nicht sagte, dass alle Muslime Extrimisten seien, sondern dass die Gefahr bestünde, dass eine muslimische Mehrheit (sei in einem Stadtviertel, sei es in einer ganzen Stadt) unter Kontrolle muslimischer Extremisten geraten könnte.

Insofern also der Hinweis auf den Nationalsozialismus und der Rassismusvorwurf eine Auseinandersetzung mit der heute tatsächlich größten Faschismusgefahr, nämlich dem Islamismus, verhindert oder abwürgt, wird er genau das heraufbeschwören, was er zu bekämpfen vorgibt.

Anonymous Coward

@Niko:

>Still waiting for Life of Brian in a Muslim >context ...

In the current climate, the director should start distributing his belongings among his heirs well before the premiere...

Of course there would also be an outcry of the left about this "incredible cultural insensitivity" and "incitement of racial hatred" ;Ströbele would demand not one, not two, but THREE muslim holidays immediately.

Anonymous Coward

Ausrufezeichen, the bigot stick doesn't seem to be working as well as it used to. It's necessary that the left come up with a different slur than 'racist' and a new angle to attack those who want to defend what their have ancestors have bequeathed them.

"It's better to think than to parrot." All you've proven with your comment is that you can do the latter.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Our Mission

The Debate

Blog powered by Typepad

May 2014

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
        1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31