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Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Dialog With Murderers - It Works (According to Sueddeutsche Zeitung) / Dialog mit Mördern funktioniert (nach der Süddeutschen Zeitung):

» The wonders of EUlite diplomacy from Low Earth Orbit
[source] The Sueddeutsche Zeitung (SZ) follows this line of sympathy for the barbaric version of Islam with the article “A... [Read More]

» Fuck 'Em at 10, Stone 'Em at 16 from The Gweilo Diaries
Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung reports that, at the urging of European human rights activits, Iran has agreed to hang a 16 year old girl convicted of engaging in pre-marital sex. The mullahs had previously intended to stone her. Iranian authorities hav... [Read More]

» Shocking from The Conjecturer
Of course it's no shocker that Germany finds excuses for executing children in Iran, but is horrified at the conditions at Guantanamo Bay that include weight gain and free medical care. Typical European pseudo-intellectual bullshit (pardon the, err, Ge... [Read More]

» Fuck 'Em at 10, Stone 'Em at 16 from The Gweilo Diaries
Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung reports that, at the urging of European human rights activits, Iran has agreed to hang a 16 year old girl convicted of engaging in pre-marital sex. The mullahs had previously intended to stone her. The Europeans have... [Read More]

» Prejudice sells more than sex! from AnarCapLib
Watching jornalists unravel their biases is an engrossing though time consuming activity. (and often others do it better). Here are two examples that caught my eye today. Aniruddha Dutta exposes the anti-gay prejudices in the press coverage of the rece... [Read More]

» Prejudice and sex from AnarCapLib
Watching jornalists unravel their biases is an engrossing though time consuming activity. (and often others do it better). Here are two examples that caught my eye today. Aniruddha Dutta exposes the anti-gay prejudices in the press coverage of the rece... [Read More]

» If the story's not bad enough... from Sadly, No!
...why don't you change the details, and pour some gasoline? MedienKritik writes: The article reports as a success of the "European-Iranian human rights dialog" that a 16-year-old girl will [Actually, she was hanged last month. --S,N!] not be stoned to... [Read More]

» If the story's not bad enough... from Sadly, No!
...why don't you change the details, and pour some gasoline? MedienKritik writes: The article reports as a success of the "European-Iranian human rights dialog" that a 16-year-old girl will [Actually, she was hanged last month. --S,N!] not be stoned to... [Read More]

Comments

Unbefreaking believable. Do these chuckle heads have any idea how vile a way to die being hanged is? And marrying off 10 year olds? Just...bleah. I guess I am being terribly judgemental. Of course everyone seems very comfortable judging America.

This is just so nuts. It makes me depressed. I'm sorry, I know this doesn't add to anything. But, sheesh.

was wäre denn die alternative zum dialog? mittels geheimdienstaktivitäten irgend einen schweinehund, hauptsache er ist unser schweinehund, an die macht bringen? ein bißchen bombardieren? eine kleine invasion? das gleiche chaos wie in falludscha? un-sanktionen, die schon anderswo keine wirkung gezeigt haben?

Henryk Broder clearly isn't being as tolerant of other cultures as he should be. I bet he even has a problem with good old "throw acid in the face of women to forever disfigure them" practice too. Here's an easy guide to cultural tolerance:

1. Anything is acceptable in non-Judeo/Christian value based cultures, there is no such thing as "wrong/bad", only different.

2. See #1

'fuckability'? He actually WROTE that? And it got published? Oh my god! Good for him. I thnk back sometimes to Ms. Meinhoff. She died in prison and I know there are questions about whether it was suicide or 'convenient'. It disturbs me, as a woman, that no one - and I mean no one - questions the status of women within Muslim cultures. They could stop killing babies today but women would still be slaves. So, I wonder what Meinhoff would have done. But I think I know. Fucking 10 year old girls is acceptable collateral damage as long as capitalism is defeated. The idea trumps the human every time. As long as the idea validates the intellectual vanity of the person who holds the idea above the human.

She would have pimped her own daughter.

bryan

I've had experience with your ilk over at LGF. It wasn't tolerated there and I will fight for it to not be tolerated here. Go crawl back into your hole.

bryan

I've had experience with your ilk over at LGF. It wasn't tolerated there and I will fight for it to not be tolerated here. Go crawl back into your hole.

i like henryk broder. he gets really to the point.
@pamela: he just posted it on his site from my understanding. i couldn't imagine a magazine/newspaper publishing it. and thats NOT because of the word"fuckability" :-(

I'm going to go balls up here because bryan's post was so vile - and so familiar. I don't know who bryan is. But there was a poster on LGF that went by the nic of bigel. bigel's schtick is that the whole world is united by Jew hatred. I don't know if bryan is bigel. But I know the dynamic. bigel was poison on LGF and last week got - finally - shamed by a German with a tatoo on his body from the Nazi regime and retired in disgrace. And now I see the exact same vomit here. I would not stand for it there and I will not stand for it here. I have posted a notice on LGF (but I'm not sure it will get alot of notice - everyone is over the moon about the forgeries) and have done my best to notify people by other means.
So, I am sorry for the rant. But this site is one I cherish. I will not see it polluted without a fight.
Ted, you made me laugh! Thank you.

Ah, Niko. Sometimes I am so weary.

But other times I AM REALLY PISSED!

Those are the good times. Thanks for being here.

Oh, it is so easy to be righteous ....

And of course we know that the Germans can never the be trusted ...

But seriously, it is interesting to see that the U.S. conservatives have embraced "political correctness": The "failure" to immediately condemn the Iranian acts of barbarism obviously are "proof" that Germans approve of it. Well, well, ...

Better to be morally pure and ineffective than pragmatic and having to make "dirty" compromises.

Remember: It is not all "black" and "white" in this world and instead of demonizing an action one cannot understand we do well to entertain the possibility of good will.

Niko:
I am just interested, so could please elaborate on the story you are alluding to with the bomb in the disco? I know about the mullahs' attack in the students dorm in Mainz, the "Mykonos" assassinations - but which disco do you mean? Was there a connection from "La Belle" also to Teheran?

Just now on the ARD Mittagsmagazin: Jihad is now "Holy Resistance" instaed of "Holy War". Interesting...

@ no comment

"was wäre denn die alternative zum dialog? mittels geheimdienstaktivitäten irgend einen schweinehund, hauptsache er ist unser schweinehund, an die macht bringen? ein bißchen bombardieren? eine kleine invasion? das gleiche chaos wie in falludscha? un-sanktionen, die schon anderswo keine wirkung gezeigt haben?"

Kurz geantwortet, no comment, nein.

Als nächstes wird no comment für uns die Stellung beschreiben, die Representaten von unbewaffnete Staaten annehmen sollen in "Dialogen," etwa mit Nazis oder den Kindermördern von Beslan, und zwar, auf den Knien mit Arsch hoch in die Luft gehoben in die unter Affen bekannte "Anbieterposition."


@ helian "Kurz geantwortet, no comment, nein."

sondern?

den rest deines postings kommentiere ich nicht.

Dass die Süddeutsche Zeitung in diesen Tagen wieder ganz besonders auffällig ist, verwundert mich kaum. Ich will gar nicht erst wissen, was in radikal linken Blättern wie der "taz" vorzufinden ist. Ein Nachbar von mir sprach kürzlich bei dem Terroranschlag in Beslan von einer "Gegenreaktion". Das ist das Vokabular von jemandem, der solchen Taten eine gewisse Legimitimität zuspricht - und das ist keineswegs bloß ein Einzelfall hierzulande. Zur Abwechslung:

Die Terroristen-Versteher

Von Henryk M. Broder

Drei Jahre nach den Anschlägen vom 11. September hat der Terror nichts von seiner Virulenz, aber viel von seinem Schrecken verloren. Hilflos unterstellen wir den Tätern ehrenwerte Motive und deuten deren Willkür als politische Verzweiflung. Doch was ist, wenn es ihnen nur um die Lust am Töten und den Spaß am Sterben geht?

http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/0,1518,druck-317426,00.html

@ downer

..."Gegenreaktion". Das ist das Vokabular von jemandem, der solchen Taten eine gewisse Legimitimität zuspricht...

bloedsinn. gegenbeispiel: ich halte den angriff auf den irak auch fuer eine gegenreaktion auf den 11.9., fuer legitim halte ich ihn deswegen noch lange nicht.

@joon,

In what respects have the German government been 'pragmatic'?

Assailants (Angreifer) – National Public Radio
Attackers (Angreifer) – Economist
Bombers (Bomber) – Guardian
Captors (Entführer, Geiselnehmer) – Associated Press
Commandos (Spezialeinsatzkräfte) – Agence France Presse
Criminals (Kriminelle) – Times (London)
Extremists (Extremisten) – United Press International
Fighters (Kämpfer) – Washington Post
Group (Gruppe) – Australian
Guerrillas – ein Kommentar in der New York Post
Gunmen (Bewaffnete) – Reuters
Hostage-takers (Geiselnehmer) – Los Angeles Times
Insurgents (Eindringlinge) – eine Schlagzeile der New York Times
Kidnappers – Observer (London)
Militants (Militante) – Chicago Tribune
Perpetrators (Gewalttäter) – New York Times
Radicals (Radikale) – BBC
Rebels (Rebellen) – eine Schlagzeile des Sydney Morning Herald
Separatists (Separatisten) – Daily Telegraph
Und mein Lieblingswort:
Activists (Aktivisten) – Pakistan Times

http://de.danielpipes.org/article/2067

Doch was sind sie wirklich? Nichts weiter als Terroristen, die das Leben verachten, doch den Tod lieben. Um was handelt es sich in Beslan? Nicht um eine "Gegenreaktion", und schon ganz gewiss nicht um eine "nachvollziehbare Handlung, die nur wegen Russland in Tschetschenien zu Stande gekommen ist", sondern um einen mörderischen, kaltblütigen, verachtenswerten, grausamen T e r r o r a n s c h l a g. Man sollte die Dinge ehrlicherweise auch so nennen, wie sie nun einmal sind - ohne Ausflüchte, ohne Moralisierungen - und vor allem: ohne Es-gibt-für-alles-eine-vernünftige-Erklärung-Blabla.

@ no comment

helian: "Kurz geantwortet, no comment, nein."

no comment: "sondern?"

Zuerst müssen wir im klaren sein über Deine Haltung darüber, no comment. Von Deinem Post können wir wohl annehmen das Du ausser:

"mittels geheimdienstaktivitäten irgend einen schweinehund, hauptsache er ist unser schweinehund, an die macht bringen? ein bißchen bombardieren? eine kleine invasion? das gleiche chaos wie in falludscha? un-sanktionen, die schon anderswo keine wirkung gezeigt haben?"

Dir gar keine andere Alternativen als die oben beschriebenen zu einem "Dialog" vorstellen kannst. Stimmt das? Oder stimmt das nicht, und Du stellst Dich vor das ich Dir irgendwelche Dir noch unbekannte Alternativen beibringen kann, also das ich Dir etwa als Lehrer bedienen kann, und fähig bin, Dir mit ganz neuen Perspektiven aufzuklären? Im zweiten Fall muss ich Dir leider mitteilen, das ich als Lehrer immer ein Gebühr verlange.

He's taking that approach because it seems the only one to him, and you're right:
Dialog with whom? Who would they represent? Some of the insurgent groups? Themselves? The whole thing opens it up to double-crossing, working moles in, and so forth.

Both parties in a negociation have to have something to offer. AQ and affiliates have nothing to offer - at ALL. They cant even promise that some faction won't act in their lieu, which was the game the IRA played for a few years.

Helian:
He's taking that approach because it seems the only one to him. It is the only thing that they are capable of imagining at this point. He's wrong, and you're right:

Dialog with whom? Who would they represent? Some of the insurgent groups? Themselves? The whole thing opens it up to double-crossing, working moles in, and so forth.

Both parties in a negociation have to have something to offer. AQ and affiliates have nothing to offer - at ALL. They cant even promise that some faction won't act in their lieu, which was the game the IRA played for a few years in an attempt to keep their victims off balance.

@ helian ...Dir gar keine andere Alternativen als die oben beschriebenen zu einem "Dialog" vorstellen kannst.

ich habe lediglich auf einige "methoden" hingewiesen, die sich als ungeeignet erwiesen haben, einfluss auf eine regierung zu nehmen. die reaktionen zeigen, dass auch die hier so aktive hau-drauf-fraktion ziemlich ratlos ist.

eine "gebuehrenpflichtige belehrung" brauche ich nicht. poste oder lass es...

A couple of thoughts crossed my mind in trying to digest this deplorable act of murder.

First, this blog is more interested in condemning the so-called "liberal" German media than the murder of a 16 year old girl by hanging for having premarital sex.

Second, could it be that this blog missed the entire point of the article? Who on earth could sympathize with the people who murdered this girl. In fact, the translation of the title, if my German isn't too rusty, is "An exection, that is supposed to be less gruesome" with the implication that it's not. The angle of the story is the role that the dialog played in lessening the girl's punishment. If anything, the newspaper should be criticized for a propagandish praising of the German government, but not for appeasement of terrorists.

I just wonder when some people are going to stop with the empty criticism of left-wingers befriending terrorists.

Pedro wrote:
>> The angle of the story is the role that the dialog played in lessening the girl's punishment.

She's still dead.
Asshole.

Note from David: Thanks, Pamela. We get some strange left-wing comments lately...

I see that freedom of speech is alive and well in Germany. I see that you have deleted my honest question to Pamela about her source to verify the lfg poster true german ally. As to where is her source?
I expect this one will be deleted too.
By the way pamela, I post at lgf too.

Note: Hmm... my initial impression was that there was an antisemitic slur involved. That's why I deleted the comment. Apologies, if I was misled.

As deeply disinvolved as they are, why would they think that anyone would listen to their complaints about 'methods'? They love to use the the Balkan wars as an example, but again - they underinvolved themselves because of expense, even though they got the United States to fight a war for them. A war inspired to Europe less by a need to contain chaos, but to keep immigrants out.

We should stop waiting and hoping for 'wake up calls' on their view of the world. Europe at the moment is looking like a lost cause.

The request to provide the True German Ally link was deleted before I saw it.

Here it is.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=12449#c0071

This is comment 71 but you might want to read the entire thread. I think it will go down as one of the more famous LGF Friday night drinking threads.

And David and Ray: No, guys, thank YOU!

I just noticed something. I never named the German LGF poster. It was indeed True German Ally, but I never disclosed that bit of info. Did I miss something?

@ no comment

"ich habe lediglich auf einige "methoden" hingewiesen, die sich als ungeeignet erwiesen haben, einfluss auf eine regierung zu nehmen."

Du hast viel eher diese Blog misbraucht, um einige linke Propaganda Schlager zu Posten, die, sollen wir sagen, eine etwas übersimplifizierte Version von einer komplizierten Realität darstellen, die deswegen wertlos sind als Information, aber trotzdem immer wieder ausgenützt werden, um die linke Hasskampagne gegen Amerika zu stützen. Ist das was Du Dir vorstellst unter "fördern" von einem gegenseitig nützlichen Dialog zwischen Amerika und Europa?


Well to any discussion given the attitudes of the elites in German.......I have to admend what I have been saying.....

ROOT CAUSES

DUCT TAPE

They are going to spend a lot of time discussing the first and more euro's buying the latter.

Stuff it, joooooon, we're still waiting for Germans on 9/11.

del.

Notiz von David: Ich bin relativ humorlos gegenüber Kommentaren, die diesen Blog und seine Besucher diffamieren.


I am posting anon because I am a regular at lgf.
I was in presence at the Friday night meme that caused bigel to leave. Funny Pamela, I guess like so many others, you did not accept bigel's sincere apology.
He's had the grace to not post anymore at lgf. So, what's your excuse? Why is it you can't let it lie?
You have no proof the poster that was deleted here is bigel. Just as you have no proof to verify true german ally's claims. You should know by now that we all can be anything we desire on the internet.
And, you've not yet answered my honest question. Where is your sources of verification? I really would like to see this information, so that I can make a legit decision in believing tga posts.

Hey anon. What I can't let lie is people spewing hate. What I WON'T let lie is people coming on this blog telling Germans that the whole world hates them because they are Jew-haters. I have no truck with anti-Americanism and I have no truck with anti-Germanism. America and Germany both have made priceless contributions to western civilization. It is part of our responsibilty as heirs to those contributions to confront the faults, the damages, and the horrors wherever we find them.

TGA's authenticity is not the issue. You are absolutely correct that any of us can be anything we want on the internet. The issue is that hate and bitterness were shamed. When bigel says "I am sorry", I will accept the apology. Gladly and with joy. It hasn't happened.

Now back on topic: How does one negotiate with nihilism? How does one negotiate with an abyss?
Islam worships the extermination of The Other.

The only possible negotiation with this is its utter defeat.

Another thing, "anon". You can't possibly know what I did or did not post on LGF in response to bigel. I user another nic there.

BTW, 'fuckable' is not generally accepted US english. It's more the kind of language one might hear in a bar after a lot of beer has been drunk. 'Marriageable' is archaic but closer to the mark.

Usually we discuss this in terms of a crime known as 'statutory rape' with the minor 'being under the age of consent'. Of course this doesn't really cover it either, since the Iranians are changing the minimum age for marriage.....

Don posted
>>BTW, 'fuckable' is not generally accepted US english. It's more the kind of language one might hear in a bar after a lot of beer has been drunk. 'Marriageable' is archaic but closer to the mark.

Talk. About. Missing. The. Point.

Dear Sandy P,

come on, you got to be a little bit more creative than telling me to "shut up". Did I touch a raw nerve there ? Besides, 9/11 did not give the Bush administration and their supporters a monopoly on the truth and the appropriate response.

Dear Don,

counter-question: In what respect has the German government not been pragmatic ?

Gee, I have been away for a little over 24 hours and here is Jooon, making some rather naive and provoking comment.

Did I miss a change in the policy position of the US? If memory serves me correctly, and yes, I did check the US State Department website, the position of the US toward Iran has not changed. It is still considered to be part of the Axis of Evil. Just what do you think the Axis of Evil is? It is obvious you have a much different definition than the rest of us.

Jooon, it is not necessary for the US to comment on every single thing Iran does. It is evil in its present form. What do you want the State Department to do? Do you want them to open each press conference with some silly statement about Iran and North Korea remains members of the Axis of Evil?

I for one do not understand why anyone else would bother even replying to your posts. You seem not to live in the real world.

It shows not only your lack of analytical skills but also your overall ignorance of US policy. I have to assume you are some leftist liberal who is part of the blame America first crowd.

Jooon,

You sound very much like a

ROOT CAUSES.......person

Might I suggest you invest in some duct tape if you are in Europe.

If you are in the US, might I suggest you migrate to Canada. You would like it there as you would find a lot of people who also blame America first.

Things for you to consider........*g*

>>If you are in the US, might I suggest you migrate to Canada

LOL! From an American observing the anniversary of Sept 11, thank you for the laugh. It was truly a gift.

@TED
I kid you not. Some 20 years ago a German comedian, Rudi Carrell, back then a giant, made some fun of Ayatollah Khomenei by showing a staged scene where veiled Iranian women threw bras on a stage where Khomenei was standing. The scene, 10 seconds long, caused such an outrage in Iran that Carrell had to step down, his show was closed, and Germany had to apologize officially.

However, some years later there was this bomb blast in a German discotheque. A German court found clear evidence that Iranian secret service was involved, and rumor has it that the judges prepared a public statement to point that out.


First Rudi Carell is a dutch comedian, living in germany! Second his show wasnt closed! Third he didnt step back (he still do shows)! Fourth the german government never apologized because of that, only carell did!

If you talk about the bomb blast at the berlin dicotheque "La Belle" in berlin, as long as I know was the connection to Lybia (ghadafi) and not Iran!


Dear Joe,

I agree with you - the U.S. government doesn't need to comment on Iran all the time. My comments where about how people misconstrue the failure of the GERMAN government to comment as a sign that the GERMAN government and the GERMAN people approve of what's going on in Iran. I thought that was clear when reading my earlier post, but I guess not.

Otherwise, I repeat what I wrote earlier: Come on, you've got to be a little bit more creative in your criticism then warming up those old stereotypes of "leftist", "America-hater" and "unrealistic". Just because I do not happen to agree with the State Dept. doesn't make me either, unless of course you believe that the State Dept. is the ultimate arbiter of truth.

to the asshole who called me an asshole. like you care that she's dead. you're just happy you have another reason to lambast the "liberal media."

this blog still missed the point of the article. the writer has blinders on.

if this is sueddeutsche's only report of the murder then i would question the paper's integrity. are we sure there's no other story in the paper reporting the girl's hanging?

Dear *g*,

thanks for the suggestions - I'll keep them in mind. However, why do you assume I always want to with people that agree with me all the time ? Wouldn't that be kind of boring ?

As for your "blame America first" assumption: I am curious; where exactly did I blame the U.S. government and blame for what ? Was it something in the "monopoly on truth" comment or the U.S. conservatives comment ?

Now, one suggestion for you: How about countering my arguments and statements in some interesting fashion, rather than commenting on what I might or might not like ? That's not too much to ask for, is it ?

"was wäre denn die alternative zum dialog"

What's the alternative? To topple a police state more cruel and oppressive than the East German state ever was. At least the Stasi (or whatever the secret police were called back then) had the human decency(?!?) to f***ing shoot their 16-year-olds, and thus grant CHILDREN quick and clean deaths.

Pacifists are -- in general -- morons.

Dear "was wäre denn die alternative zum dialog",

blanket statements such as "pacifist are -- in general -- morons" may make you feel better but don't really help the discussion.

As for your "wonderful" alternative: Do you watch the news (i.e. Iraq) and see what happens if you just randomly topple totalitarian regimes without much of a plan or international support ?

Again, maybe having gotten rid of the regime may make you feel good about yourself, but there are less pretty consequences (creating hostile populations, chaos, disorder, potential recruits for terrorists etc.) too. Sure, sometimes the benefits outweigh the costs, but it is not often so clear-cut as you may think.

So the leftists saved some rocks from serious injury, hay . Does there need be any more evidence on how these idiots work, Germany has not cornered the market with these types, They ought to be hanging and stoning of the leftist idiots, not a 16 year old Girl. But thats the world we live in hay, It stinks,and if it was not so serious, It would read as a sick joke, skary part ,it is'nt. Thanks leftist for making a safer world, One step closer to the Dhimmi, again

Der Krieg gegen den Terror hat damit begonnen, daß Präsident Bush den Namen der Feinde der USA offen ausgesprochen hat.
Jetzt, drei Jahre danach, wäre es an der Zeit, die Namen der falschen Freunde der USA offen auszusprechen.

@ fmj

meine güte, jetzt haben wir aber angst! wie wär's damit: jetzt, nach drei jahren wäre es mal an der zeit, den usa vorzuhalten, was sie alles in den letzten drei jahren verbockt haben! hör doch auf mit diesem pathetischen "wer-nicht-für-uns-ist-ist-gegen-uns"-gequatsche!

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