« The Old Left And The New Fear / Die alte Linke und die neue Angst | Main | Biased Presentation Of Iraqi Poll / Voreingenommene Darstellung der Irak-Umfrage »

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d83451c42969e200d834211c0853ef

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Iraqis: Our Lives Have Improved / Iraker: Uns geht es besser:

» Polling Data from VodkaPundit
Now this is interesing -- Germans are less optimistic about their future than Iraqis.... [Read More]

» Iraq Versus Germany from Kalblog
Davids Medienkritik points out that Iraqis are more optimistic than Germans. The reasons for this should be fairly obvious- we just got rid of a brutal dictator in Iraq, while the Germans are still stuck with the same bums in... [Read More]

» Iraq Vs. Germany from Dean's World
The German weblog Medienkritic ("Media Critic") reports that polls show Iraqis are considerably happier and more optimistic than most Germans. Hate to say it (okay,... [Read More]

» Iraq: Thank God for Germany from Outside the Beltway
People in Alabama, often on the wrong end of most rankings of the 50 states, have always been able to say “Thank God for Mississippi!”... [Read More]

» Crossing a certain Rubicon from Cold Fury
Brian Tiemann delivers a good postmort: You know, some time ago I think I recall people warning that as the... [Read More]

Comments

Yeah, statistics, if you want to see something you'll find it. So the not so optimistic ones could read from the right part of Pic1 that Iraqi people think it can't get much worse.

>Hmm... I can see occupying forces, but where are the Iraqis? Possibly the guys in the forefront? BBC will have some explaining to do...

Well spotted!

I think part of the survey was taken in an area not known for its fondness of Americans - so the numbers are hopeful.

Sadly, this is an attack on Germany itself. This is nothing more than pure polemic and hasn't anything to do with critical observation of the media, but is spreading hate among both nations (US and GER) by spreading biased, unqualified opinions and so-called "truths". What has the opinion of Germans about their economy to do with the opinion of iraqis about their economy ? What are you implying ? Iraq has suffered a war, and if the economy wouldnt be rebuilt, it would be truely sad. Of Course they're optimistic, is there any other way to go on in a destroyed country ?
This site is becoming more obscure with each post.

>Die deutschen Medien haben übrigens von den Ergebnissen der BBC-Irak-Umfrage kaum Notiz genommen.<

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,290939,00.html

http://fazarchiv.faz.net/webcgi?START=A20&DOKM=196_FAZT_0&WID=68973-7720684-90100_1

http://www.frankfurterrundschau.de/fr_home/startseite/?cnt=405702&

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/ausland/artikel/660/28632/

http://www.handelsblatt.de/pshb?fn=relhbi&sfn=buildhbi&CN=GoArt!200013,200051,721019&bt=0&SH=0&depot=0

Oh, es sind übrigens die Feinheiten..... Die Umfrage wurde u.a. auch von der ARD in Auftrag gegeben.

alles lüge, dennis. und dass sie linkslinke, voreingenommene, gleichgeschaltete staatsmedien zitieren, zeigt doch nur ihr naives gutmenschentum.

;-)

>> What has the opinion of Germans about their
>> economy to do with the opinion of iraqis
>> about their economy ?

David just wanted to show that the number of Iraqis content with the political development is not so bad. And backed this up with a comparison with Germany. What is wrong here?

dg

PS. Diese zwei Zahlen finde ich am wichtigsten:

"48 Prozent befürworten den Einmarsch der Alliierten vor einem Jahr"; "42 Prozent sehen im Einmarsch allerdings eine Befreiung." (Spiegel online)

Auch für mich war dies eine wirkliche Überraschung, ich hätte vielleicht auf 20 oder 30 Prozent getippt. Sollte wohl weniger Stern lesen bzw. Nachrichten gucken. (Den Spiegel allerdings finde ich aufschlußreich, oft sehr informativ und nicht konsequent antiamerikanisch. Es sind halt viele Leute mit verschiedenen Meinungen dabei und das ist gut! Ich würde also dem Spiegel keine komplette Anti-Bush-Propaganda unterschieben.)

dg

It's good to see there are open-minded Germans like you, dg, who are willing to revise their opinions based on facts.

Actually, I'm rather surprised by these poll results for the opposite reason. I would have expected the number of Iraqis who see themselves as having been liberated to be considerably more than fifty percent. The fact that it's only forty-two percent is a cause for concern.

Well, this depends very much on what one understands by "liberated". In the West, liberty usually stands for the liberty of the individual, i. e. for civil and human rights etc.. But, of course, many people understand liberty as the sovereignty of a state, and this is not the case in the modern Iraq. Of course, it would be strange to await liberalism from a society tyrannized by a dictator for over 20 years, so the results are not so strange to my opinion.

dg

DG, it is polemic, because you can not compare the german economy to the iraqi economy. What should be drawn of this comparison ? In how far and where does the comparison to Germany back up the contentment of the iraqis ? You can't compare it and it is solely epicaricacy, exactly something that is critized so much here. Double Standards again.

kid charlemagne:
I had the same thought. Why is it so? Why is the hatred so deep? Has it to do with the media? Could you trust somebody when half of the world calls him liar? I find this development very dangerous.

The poll was a nationwide poll of all Iraqis.

The fact is that the Germany people have much to be ashamed of. Their government, and their nation, was benefitting substantially from keeping the brutal mass-murdering dictator Saddam in power. They opposed the liberation of an oppressed people very selfish and anti-American motives, and did not care how much suffering the Iraqis would go through if their opposition was successful.

Now we know the vast majority of Iraqis are glad Saddam is gone and are hopeful about the future and say their lives are better now and say their lives will continue getting better.

Germans should be ashamed of their nation's morally bankrupt opposition to the liberation of the Iraqi people. Not as ashamed as the French and Germans should be, but your hands are hands stained with the blood and suffering of millions.

LoL Dean,

do you ever heard that germany is i one of the leading exporting nations still ? To be exact Germany exported goods with a worth of 541 (USA 694 Billion USD) Billion US-Dollars in 2002 TOTAL. On the other Side Iraq imported goods for 4 Billion Dollars in 2002 TOTAL. According to the German Chamber of Industry and Commerce Iraq imported goods for 404 Mio Euros from Germany, which is 0.06% share of the total export volume of Germany. See, assumtions really fed your emotions. Maybe you inform yourself before posing prejudices.

Dennis wrote:

>> DG, it is polemic, because you can not compare
>> the german economy to the iraqi economy.

It is possibly true that one cannot directly compare the progress in a post-war state like the Iraq with the attitudes in an established society like Germany, but still an optimism rate like the Iraqi one shows a great economic potential, so that the *speed* of progress is much better in the Iraq than in Germany. Actually, it again proves wrong the theory that things at Iraq are constantly going bad. But you are right, it would be better to compare the Iraqi statistics with one of post-war Germany.

Later, Dennis wrote:

>> LoL Dean, [...]

I don't see the point of your remark. Dean's comment may have been a bit lacking in content, or redundant, but he didn't write anything about exports to the Iraq. It could be about trading relation with other Arabic countries as well, or about Schröder's use of the common anti-American resentments and superficial pacifism in order to stay popular. There were many reasons for the German government not to participate in the Iraq war.

dg

Dennis, once again you prove that you're an intellectual sniper (geistiger Heckenschütze). Dean made some good points, and some which might be objectionable, but you just pick one and then dismiss his whole opinion by saying "See, assumtions really fed your emotions. Maybe you inform yourself before posing prejudices."

What a prick you are. "I have friends in the US yadda yadda". I doubt you have any friends at all.

--On the other Side Iraq imported goods for 4 Billion Dollars in 2002 TOTAL. --

We'll see 2003 - over 1 million cars imported in one year - tons of satellite dishes, computers, frig's, AC and now the Euro press is wringing their hands because the power grid might not be able to handle it all.

2002 is not the number to use. We didn't go in until 2003.

2002 is so Saddam.

erm flursn,

his major reproach was that we didn't join the war because we benefit "substantially" from it.
He hasn't got to remind me, that the people in iraq are happier now, I know it myself and Im also happy about it. I just cant stand it, if you condemn a country on obviously wrong informations.
You can accuse me, I don't care. How do you react, if we say "the americans only want the oil" ?

@DG
He said, that we didn't join USA Alliance, because our economy would suffer from it.
"... Germans should be, but your hands are hands stained with the blood and suffering of millions" Very friendly indeed and also wrong. Sorry for clarifying a point.

@Sandy

There are no numbers about that yet. Of course it is changing, no doubt. I just wanted clarify the accusation that we "benefit substantially" from Saddams' dictatorship. I know that the french "ElfFina" Oil company had some contracts with saddam's oil department, but to my knowledge they never saw a penny, because of the Embargo. Lets not speak about WMD, because all, France, Germany and the USA were involved in the 70s and 80s.

He hasn't got to remind me, that the people in iraq are happier now, I know it myself and Im also happy about it.

Sure you are. Your words are soaked with happiness about the Iraqis' liberation.

I just cant stand it, if you condemn a country on obviously wrong informations.

Once again you're beating your own strawman.

How do you react, if we say "the americans only want the oil" ?

Thanks for that clarification. Certainly you pulled a trigger in some readers' heads with the oil part.

"... Germans should be, but your hands are hands stained with the blood and suffering of millions" Very friendly indeed and also wrong.

Fact is that German companies with full approval of their respective German governments had helped Saddam build bunkers and uranium enrichment facilities.

I just wanted clarify the accusation that we "benefit substantially" from Saddams' dictatorship.

You might want to google about 2002's industrial fare in Baghdad. Siemens was were, too. Insignificant? Sure, just as insignificant as the Hanauer Plutonium Anlagen deal Mr. Schröder put some effort into.

know that the french "ElfFina" Oil company had some contracts with saddam's oil department, but to my knowledge they never saw a penny, because of the Embargo.

Thanks for another clarification. TotalFinaElf surely deserved that you step in for their defense.

Lets not speak about WMD, because all, France, Germany and the USA were involved in the 70s and 80s.

What a conflation. The Osirak nuclear plant to a large degree was built with French technology. You don't want to equal French WMD facilities with US Stinger missiles, do you?

Lets not speak about WMD, because all, France, Germany and the USA were involved in the 70s and 80s.

What a conflation. The Osirak nuclear plant to a large degree was built with French technology. You don't want to equal French WMD facilities with US Stinger missiles, do you?

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/18/features-crogan1.php

http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/17346/newsDate/19-Aug-2002/story.htm

http://www.rense.com/general35/rums.htm

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=475931

Dennis:
rense.com is a really shitty website. It has articles about good old Ernst Zundel. Iiiiieeh, Dennis, wake up.

Dennis:
Sie präsentieren hier einige Artikel über die Umfrage. Nett, daß es diese gibt. Diese müssen Sie jedoch neben die 100000000000000 Artikel stellen, die negativ über den Irak berichten. Dann haben Sie das richtige Verhältnis. Was sind denn 5 kleine Artikelchen dagegen, die man doch nur bringt, damit niemand sagen kann, sie hätten diese Umfrage ignoriert. Bei Ihnen funktioniert es ja auch. Sie sagen, Siehste, da sind sie. Aber das ändert nichts an der traurigen Wahrheit, daß man hierzulande gar kein Interesse hat, fair zu berichten. Dann müßten all diese Journalisten zugeben, daß sie sich geirrt haben. Sie klammern sich lieber krampfhaft an irgendwelche Lügengeschichten, dann brauchen sie nicht über das zu berichten, was wirklich die Welt bewegt. Diese Zeit wird in die Geschichte eingehen: Europa ignorierte zu lang den Terror und ließ sich von ihren uninformierten Bevölkerungen unter Druck setzen. Ob zu lange, wird die Zukunft zeigen.

@Gabi:

rense.com is shitty, my fault. Nonetheless it is pretty well-known that Mr.Rumsfeld and the former US Administration supported Saddam in the iran-iraq war.

Keine Frage, Gabi, es gibt viele negative Artikel über den Irak. Und natürlich ist es auch traurig, wie die Friedensbewegung teilweise den Kopf verliert, und Terroristen feiert, denn damit ist es freilich nicht geholfen. Teilweise ist diese Bewegung recht egoistisch und nicht an der Sache interessiert. Jedoch ist es genauso bedenklich, wie Bush hier gefeiert wird und wie mir und vielen anderen jedes Wort der Kritik an Bush als "anti-americanismus" und als Wort "Für den Terrorismus" oder schlichtweg als "uninformiert" verdreht wird. Das ist auch dein größtes Problem. Du glaubst, die "Wahrheit" direkt bei Gott gepachtet zu haben und wirfst allen anderen "Unaufgeklärtheit" vor, dabei bist du genauso abhängig von Informationen, die von außen herangetragen werden, wie jeder andere hier auch. Die linken, die rechten, die amerikanischen oder die deutschen Medien sie sind doch alle gleich und biegen sich die Wahrheit alle zurecht. Nicht umsonst dreht Bush mittlerweile jeden Tag an der Rhetorikschraube um die öffentliche Meinung zu beeinflußen. Vergleiche doch mal seine letzte Rede mit einer vor dem Krieg. Da wurden Kursänderungen vorgenommen, wie sie nur in vergleichbarer Weise in der Marketingabteilung von McDonalds üblich sind. Und da kommt diese Seite daher, besetzt den letzten Posten der Wahrheit und klagt über die voreingenommenen deutschen Medien, aber doch wird Bush beinahe rücksichtslos und natürlich genauso voreingenommen unterstützt. "Great Speech" - dass ich nicht lache - Rhetorisch ist sie vielleicht "great", jedoch ist sie inhaltlich leerer als Karl-Heinz Hirn nach 15 Bier.
Dieser Blog hat ein ehrenhaftes Ziel, jedoch wird hier auch gnadenlos beleidigt, die Emotionen geschürrt, und letztlich entstehen extreme Meinungen, wie uns Pato eindrucksvoll bewiesen hat. Das solche Meinungen hier "salonfähig" werden (völlig abseits der politischen Realität), wundert mich kein Stück, denn diese Seite ist nicht aufgeklärter als eine auf der anderen Seite des politischen Spektrums und verfehlt damit sein eigentliches Ziel.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Our Mission

The Debate

Blog powered by Typepad

February 2014

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
            1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28