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» Friday Foray from Blackfive - The Paratrooper of Love
1. Frank J. has a new In My World post and here's a great quote from it: "We're Marines," Buck explained, "We only judge people by whether they're American of foreign... and, if they are foreign, we don't judge them [Read More]

» POLL MANIPULATION from DiscountBlogger
Here are a couple polls you can go have some ballot stuffing fun with: An MSN Poll from Australia. A Der Spiegel poll. Cick here for instructions.... [Read More]

Comments

...because the answer is 6.

We did it! 217 now! Spiegel will be amazed.

BTW, Don´t forget to hit ABSTIMMEN after you select a number.


This reminds me of that scene in Spinal Tap, where the lead guitarist, has his amplifier specially designed to go to 11.


gave him 1, just to piss them off (278 he has by now), though still think he deserves 6, he didn't do anything properly except removing Saddam

"...Imagine a bomb just went off in your local mall. Choose one.''

No matter how often you come up with that plump propaganda doesn't matter. The fact is: Saddam was not about to blow up a bomb in you mall and when it came to track down real terrorists (like in Afghanistan) you had the support of UN, Nato, France, Germany...
So please, don't spread nonsense.

Bush will win by a enormous margin. In addition to this nations confidence in Bush- the victory will be a message from the American people to those in Europe whose new-found nationalism has, once again, caused such anti-Americanism at a time when Europe's focus should be inwards towards itself for the multitude of issues that is currently causing the continent to stumble and fumble with every damn step it takes.
I mean- under whose law is the toppling of a bloody dictator "illegal"
Under whose law is a dictator looked upon as being a "sovereign" entity?
During the Serbia/Kosovo conflict within Europe itself- There was no UN permission to topple Milosovich as Russia was then playing the same "veto threat role" as France did last year.
After 12 years of violating UN sanctions- why was the Iraq conflict "illegal"?
The leadership shown by the US, while Europe waffled and people were being slaughtered in Kosovo, to topple Milosovich did not face this level of baseless scrutiny.
If just one "EU" country would have had the ability to topple Saddam it would have attempted such a measure...
.. perhaps only after a decade long debate, and appointment of a red-caped "Super Commissioner" to determine the "extent" of human suffering there.
NOT ONE person in the current "EU" is in ANY position to comment on constitutions being helped t form by the US, locating war crimes criminals, or a "war over oil", or on what it takes to succeed economically, or how to be "sensitive" to another culture, or how to bring a democracy to a country.
This is all the more relevant when one takes a look at the current "EU constitution" and it's current "effectiveness". And when one also looks at these facts-
EU countries, more than any other countries are responsible for the WMD proliferation around the globe-
Nuclear black market trade had roots in Europe- http://www.iht.com/articles/130366.html
Milosovich is wanted by the EU and missing now for 8 years.
Current EU countries create work laws prohibiting new member's citizens from seeking work in the respective countries, going fully against the very premise of the EU constitution to begin with.
A real diplomatic tough guy like Chirac telling new members they "missed a good chance to shut up"
With the EU penguin-like Blix's book coming out he is "flashing" personal opinions rather than fact to promote his book while entirely avoiding the real issue of WMD proliferation around the globe that occurred right under his "watch". Why is the fact that as Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency from 1981 to 1997, when Blix was impervious to the spread of WMD spread around the globe, not questioned by ANYONE in the mighty EU?
It will take 25 years for the US death total in Iraq to reach the levels of deaths through heat this past summer in France. Why then is the current EU focus co consistently looking outward and blasting the US with such crap all the while your continent is truly falling miserably apart as not a single politician appears to have a solution of consensus to better your pitiful continent.
Schroeder was screaming for Clinton to hurry up and bomb the Christian Serbs in Kosovo and Serbia in 1999, and neither Schroeder nor Chirac wanted inspectors to verify their wild-eyed claims of "mass graves" in Kosovo.
In fact, France and Germany INSISTED that there be no UN resolution to use force against Milosovich.
France and Germany demanded that NATO start bombing Serbia immediately, WITHOUT the UN.
That wasn't even 4 years ago. France and Germany had the US bombing the Christian Serbs on Easter Sunday, 1999.
Yet the EU citizens and the EU press like to call themselves "anti-war" these days. What damn puffery this is.
The protest against any action in Kosovo was too muffled to be credible.
Hey Europe- spare the world your duplicitous nonsense and your phony embrace of such shallow pacifism and your "better than thou" dinosaur attitudes and get to work on your own constitution,
get to work on your own miserable economies,
stop your intent to sell plutonium to China,
and please promptly prosecute the UN members and EU politicians who had un-zipped saddam's trousers to cozy up to him for profit while looking to preserve their own business and his reign of terror.
Hey- who wants to bet that Iraq has a new constitution before the EU? Anyone? The creation of an Iraqi constitution is perhaps 1000 times more difficult as it would be for the EU. So why is the EU failing in this regard while Iraq's WILL be signed by Monday?
The paper-like strength of your new found nationalism (based on what successes for christ's sake?)is what will bring, and is bringing, your nations to it's knees both culturally and economically.
Wow, germany has a total of 2000 troops in Afghanistan bravely helping to educate the female population or creating an environment for them to achieve, and now you Germans are "all tapped out of resources".
So you now have the 4th lowest GDP among the EU nations, your economy hasn't grown in 3 years, your leader gets his ass kicked in recent elections. I really have to ask "what the hell is wrong with some of you people?"
I understand J Fischer has recommended the appointment of an "EU Super Commissioner" to help expedite the constitution and I need to ask- what color will his cape be?
Will Bush win the election in November? Certainly.
To those in Old Europe- Bush will win by a enormous margin. In addition to this nations confidence in Bush- the victory will be a message from the American people to those in Europe whose new-found nationalism has, once again, caused such anti-Americanism at a time when Europe's focus should be inwards towards itself for the multitude of issues that is currently causing the continent to stumble and fumble.
It is that "stumbling" and "fumbling" that fosters the constant negativity towards the US that emits from your continent.

make that Radovan Karadzic who is missing within the EU for 8 years, not milosovich as I had mistyped.
It's important to note that Milosovich is living even more comfortably than Karadzic under the effective control of the effective Hague Court system.

Over 16 percent (!) in that poll give Bush a "1" - excellent - rating, and still increasing..!

Great Job, David, great job, all visitors of this forum! Keep it up!

>Ach so, ich weiss. "Weil Noam Chomsky und John Kerry und Kofi Annan gesagt haben, es gebe dafür keine ausreichenden Beweise. Und die vorgelegten Indizien wurden von George W. Bush und seinen Neokonservativen gefälscht."

Wenn Du's weisst, warum fragst Du dann? Ausserdem, behauptet niemand der genannten die Indizien seien gefälscht, sondern lediglich sie seien bewusst falsch interpretiert und das ist korrekt. Die Unterstützung für die Familien von Selbstmord-Killern ist ein abscheuliches Verbrechen, aber eben genau kein Beweis für links zu Al Qaida. Noch nichtmal die Terrororganisationen selbst haben von Saddam direkte Unterstützung erhalten (im Gegensatz zur Unterstützung des "nichtmilitanten Flügels" der Hamas durch die EU). Also mal immer schön realistisch bleiben bei der Interpretation von Fakten.

>but Al Qaeda or Abbu Sayyaf or Abu Nidal or Jamal Islamiyah as the "verlängerter Arm" of Saddam

Is this a joke? Are you really claiming even one of those was controlled by Saddam? Al Qaeda and Jamal Islamiyah were not just even not supported by Saddam he clearly stated they posed a threat to his regime and that was one of the few moments when he was not lying (except for the fact that he didn't call it his regime but his country). He was a cruel dictator and dangerous and the war against him can well be seen as justified, but has nothing to do with the war on terror. Terror just followed it's enemy into a territory where the terrorists can now act more freely than ever before (not to blame the troops for that but the administration certainly).


1627 votes (20.27% of the total) for "Note 1" (= Grade A).

Woo hoo!

Jens- your comments are far to simplistic to warrant any credit.
You want to see the connections the saddam regime has with the jihad monkey cowards around the globe? It is only a fool who is not aware of these groups "interdependance" in their jiahd against the great satan- the US.
check out this research-
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/hoffman5.htm
Ramsi Yousef, the 1st WTC bomber WAS Iraqi AND Jamal Islamiyah trained.
Saddams plot to assasinate Bush Sr was reason enough for the US to knock his head off. Germany or france did not have any missing POW pilots from the first gulf war still missing, nor were their planes being shot at enforcing the UN no fly zone. How can you people even comment after you yourselves show such constant in-action?
I have an idea for the EU- get off your asses and head over to the UN DMZ in Korea and relieve the 35,000 US troops keeping the UN line drawn for over 50 years.
Please also do the US a favor and STOP the crying at the prospect of the US wanting to pull it's troops the hell out of Germany.
When we actually DO remove the 1000's of our men and woman serving in Germany to bring them home or into a more hospitable, similiarly forward-thinking country- say not a word.
Pull up and adjust your own lederhosen with your own money, and your own efforts, for the first time in recent history.

2395 votes on 1 and 3741 on 6 !!!

...und nach wenigen Minuten 2915!

Keep the votes coming and coming and coming!!!!

N. Hale

Jens - Hussein was the largest money-launder in the world.

There's still questions regarding WTC #1 and a wonderful little conspiracy about Oklahoma City.

Check out Jayna Davis and Laurie Mylroie.

And the bolshies and Nazis would NEVER align either. Riiiiiight, but according to history, they did.

Sandy- You rock.

the count is now 3755 for number 1 and climbing.

As of 1442 CST (I believe 2042 London time), the numbers are as follows.

1 - 3821 votes (37.09%)
2 - 242 votes (2.35%)
3 - 134 votes (1.30%)
4 - 487 votes (4.73%)
5 - 1864 votes (18.09%)
6 - 3754 votes (36.44%)

That is definitely a bimodal distribution. :)

Congratualtions David! 3% at breakfast and 40% at lunch. (Californian) Can't wait to see the vote at dinner.

Many I know in Europe are now aware of this poll and voicing opinion.
I've got friends all over germany and in Tyrol now at der seagulls, err make that der speigel's site, showing how they feel.
For Der Seagull readers- this is a heat wave in the middle of winter.

I find it distasteful for anyone to presume to vote for the leader of another country, even if it is only a staw-man poll (pun intended) for an anti-American magazine.

Count on this though: The nouveu-Goebells types at Der Spiegel will probably find a way to erase the results or hide them.

1 6964 47.67%
2 1316 9.01%
3 156 1.07%
4 490 3.35%
5 1872 12.81%
6 3812 26.09%

Looking good!

1 7023 47.86%
2 1317 8.98%
3 157 1.07%
4 490 3.34%
5 1873 12.76%
6 3813 25.99%

Even better! HEHEHEHE

Dinner time and it is over 50%! David, You da man.

USA! USA! /Homer

Thanks, David.

Jens, surely you are more sophisticated than your posts indicate. The invasion of Iraq was and is about proliferation, not Saddam attacking the USA. There will not be another airplane crashing into a building (at least if there are more Americans than terrorists on the plane), but biological, chemical and nuclear weapons can do far worse. The USA will use ALL means available to end proliferation, there is not much the EU can do to stop us, but much you could do to help us. Are you in favor of WMD proliferation for the sake of curtailing US hegemony?

hey doug-
lastoftheinternational is a decent site at times.
I wish that history would have shown that your site carried the same interest in an Iraqi death sentance as your site's focus on an iranian death sentance. Is it simply because spousal abuse is the issue and not political discourse? Has your candidate already left the race after being all shot down to hell by the US voters?
Shall we issue you your tissue in advance of Bush's vistory or shall we send your crying tissue to you on inaguration day after Bush pulls down roughly 150 million votes?

The Spiegel is well aware of what is going on with this poll already. Mobilizing friends to vote is fair game, running Visual Basic scripts to rig it (like LGF is doing) is lame.

Rigging votes is probably the only way to keep Bush in power... (oh wait, wasn't that done already?) but you better work on your beta version this time.

BRING IT ON!

Hehe, daran werden die Kollegen zu knabbern haben... Über 50% für Note 1!

1 8734 52.07%

2 1570 9.36%

3 172 1.03%

4 493 2.94%

5 1877 11.19%

6 3928 23.42%

Gesamtbeteiligung: 16774

Somebody will crap bricks around himself tomorrow.
 

Rigging votes is probably the only way to keep Bush in power... (oh wait, wasn't that done already?)

Nope.

It was a ranking staff member of the Democratic National Commitee who was videotaped buying votes in Milwaukee. Gore supposedly carried Wisconsin by barely enough votes to avoid a recount, and the Democratic Attorney General refused to investigate either the vote buying or solid allegations of other vote fraud. Wisconsin politics are no more honest now, but the voters are showing themselves to be angry with the state Democratic party, which should tip the outcome here.

In Florida it is estimated that the premature calling of the outcome cost Bush 3000 votes in the western portion of the state, and even with that and the refusal to count military absentee ballots the Democrats could not show a win in the state once the Supreme Court ruled that any further recounts must be in accordance with Florida state law. The mere fact that Florida panhandle voters won't be fooled again should assure a Bush victory in that state next time.

Oh really? They were much smarter than that in Florida. Just keep the Afro-Americans from voting. That was the real fraud, not the counting.

Loesch die Cookies, dann kannst Du mehrmals abstimmen!

(Is that right? Erase your cookies, vote more than once.)

Anyway, amusing exercise. Ta.

I am of German ancestry. I lived in Germany for several years; I lived among the people and learned the language (too many years ago...). To those Germans reading this, if Germany were attacked, I would immediately ask, "What can I do to assist you?". I would offer my services, not criticism. I would stand beside you, even if I do not always agree with you.

It saddens and angers me to hear and read German media attacking the people and the leaders and the Vereinigte Staaten because we defend ourselves and bring to justice those those who cowardly murder innocents.

It could as easily have been Berlin as it was New York.

In memory of those who died in the attacks of September 11th, "Never forget, never forgive".

Thank you Freepers, you know who you are.

"The great errors in politics come almost always from the fact that men forget that reality is shifting and in constant motion. Nine of ten political errors consist simply in believing to be real something that has ceased to exist."
- Henri Bergson.

Douglas, You are sooo September 10th.

1 9845 54.68%
2 1628 9.04%
3 176 0.98%
4 493 2.74%
5 1879 10.44%
6 3985 22.13%

Ha, Ha!!

Mr Chad,

Enjoy your myths. African Americans voted in a higher per centage in Florida 2000 than in any other election.

John Lott did a study that found "that African-American Republicans who voted were 54 to 66 times more likely than the average African American to cast a non-voted ballot (either by not marking that race or voting for too many candidates). To put it another way: For every two additional black Republicans in the average precinct, there was one additional non-voted ballot. By comparison, it took an additional 125 African Americans (of any party affiliation) in the average precinct to produce the same result."


This fact could easily be explained by "extra punches for Gore" in some districts. Punch a bunch of ballots in the Gore hole. If it was already a vote for Gore - no effect. If it was a no choice vote, Gore gets another. If it was a vote for Bush - Ruined ballot - no vote. It only shows up in the statistics when you look for party line voting.

Google "John Lott Florida voting" you'll find the links. You can take it up with him

Get the google translated poll page here:
http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,282606,00.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,282606,00.html%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG
I don't know how to get a the google translated results page.
current vote count:
1 9889
2 1630
3 0176
4 0493
5 1879
6 3987
18054
But according to James, votes were as of 9:44
1 - 3821 votes (37.09%)
2 - 242 votes (2.35%)
3 - 134 votes (1.30%)
4 - 487 votes (4.73%)
5 - 1864 votes (18.09%)
6 - 3754 votes (36.44%)
So since James 9:44 post...
1 6068
2 1398
3 0042
4 0006
5 0015
6 0233
07762
USA! USA! USA!

I've got their "abstimmen" RIGHT HERE!

Bush Nummer Ein!

Good morning from Germany!

10.018 at 8.03!


And the Mason-Dixon poll was the only one which showed Bush winning FLA.

Update (Saturday morning U.S. time)

Stand: 06.03.2004, 11:47
_____N_____Pct__
1__10328__55.57%
2___1667___8.97%
3____177___0.95%
4____495___2.66%
5___1886__10.15%
6___4032__21.69%
N= 18,585

But I understand Kerry is first in the hearts and minds of the French and North Koreas.

No.

This is just an exercise in ballot-stuffing. LGF readers have already published a VB script that votes early, and often (as they say in the Democrat Party Rooms in Chicago).

The fact that I (after much thought) gave Bush a "2" (but have regretted it, I should have voted "1" ) is irrelevant. A cooked result is a cooked result, and I want no part of it. Even though an analysis of early results showed a suspicious pattern of votes indicative of a robot voting "6" for some time.

Sorry to spoil the joke. Aber fuer mich, diese wahl ist kein witz.

Its an online staw vote for the purpose of Der Spiegel to gauge how well their anti-American vitriol has taken effect. It also gives them a pre-made sidebar feature to the obligitory stories about how much Germans hate Bush. Of course when Der Spiegel does everything it can to demonize Bush, they pretty much know the result before they publish it.

Look at the images of Bush they choose to publish, they only show those where he looks like some kind of child molester or evil sorcerer. Either that or they catch him with a curious look on his face when the aim of the day is to make him look stupid.

I'm no fan of Bush and I did not vote for him. What Germans need to understand is that when they cross the line from criticism to dogmatic demonization and dehumanization, we'll respond strongly. Europe and Germany's governments had a sympathetic ear among many Americans during the Iraq hubub but they lost us when they crossed the line on the road to hate. Die gebliebene hassfahigkeit in Europa erstaunt mich sehr.

I see nothing wrong with stuffing a virtual ballot box of a publication that regularly seeks to demonize President Bush and dehumanize the American people. If only there was a way to zap Bild in the same way.


Dave,

Let's be serious for a moment. These guys and those at LGF, having a laugh about the predictable, and all too frequent now, demonization, vilification, and character assasination of Bush; is just that, a big laugh.

It is not going to make any difference to any meaningful democratic process. If you think this poll is some kind of institution for values of freedom and democracy, then you have not been paying enough attention to what is happening in Europe these days, including the UK.

Its a joke, is funny, and will make no difference in the end, to the overwhelming level of Anti Bush propaganda.

I hope you've sent the various European press and media companies, a similarly indignant letter of complaint, regarding their bias, and manipulation of the mass media market.

Regards,

@at März 6,2004 02:01 nachm.

Haßfähigkeit in Europa? Many Anti-Bush are from the US and gave their ideas to Europe. They also work together. Many are online connected, united by their Bush-hatred. So it is not only European hatred. So we all should wonder about the hatred in our democratic world. What happened to our democracy that so many are filled with such a deep hatred? It is nothing typical European, it is an illness in our democratic societies. We created people like Clare Short, Katharine Gun, Wilson, Blix, Sontag, Moore. I am already waiting for the book of Clare Short.

I hope that looking into the origins of the voting results will cause the Speiegel to discover Medienkritik and LGF and expose them to the fact that lots of people are calling bullshit on their anti-American propaganda.

Poll: Bush is a hugely polarizing figure.

A German online poll has revealed 56% saying Bush has done an excellent job and 40% saying he's done a terrible - with almost no middle ground. This demonstrates what a polarizing figure he has become, as his non-polarizing opponent John Kerry has frequently pointed out.

Jens, the war in Iraq uncovered WMD, but they were found in Libya. This indicates that it is not just the US that thinks the war in Iraq was part of the War on Terror but it also proves that Quadaffi has more perspective than many Europeans. Now it looks like Syria might be getting the message as well.

"Germany's left-left-wing SPIEGEL ONLINE"

Why are you using this disingenuous expression? Your website is very useful in exposing the German media bias but you are misleading your English-speaking readers using this term. "Der Spiegel" is German mainstream media not "left-left wing". If you look at their reporting on social issues, on crime or on immigration it is hard to describe them as "left-left-wing".

And this is the real problem: It is not some fringe element of the German press that is anti-American but nearly every media outlet in Germany. Funny enough you will find some very pro-American views among the real extreme left in Germany like the "Antideutschen".

Note from David: Jonas, as SPIEGEL publisher Rudolf Augstein once said: "The SPIEGEL is everywhere and - if in doubt - left-wing". ("Der Spiegel ist überall und im Zweifel links.") To deny their left-wing bias is to deny one of the main coordinates of the German media landscape. Of course, you shouldn't define "left-wing" in the classical, socialism oriented sense.

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